|Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:38 pm: || |
The New York Times yet.
The story claims that obesity is "contagious". How many folks eat the same food as their friends and relatives? Gee, could it be something in the bag of Doritos they're sharing or the things they are recommending to their friends to eat? Every day, the news media gets more and more ridiculous how they cover ailments like obesity that are related by the sole link to glutamate.
The mainstream media - the actual NEW YORK TIMES - is looking more nuts every day, and they say we are making MSG reactions up. Go Figure.
|Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 3:11 pm: || |
That report was the most ridiculous, irresponsible report of a study I've ever heard of. Do the doctors and analysts really think that it is contagious? No, probably not. They are trying to report that correlation is causation. Communications/Studies 101 will tell you that it isn't.
There are several reasons why there might be a correlation, but I'm sure you all can think of them without me spelling it out.
AND there are actually very few studies done with the right controls, and on the up-and-up to give accurate findings. I'm sure you all know that too.
Anyway, thanks Carol, it was worth a good laugh.
|Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 3:37 pm: || |
Dianne, "correlation is causation" is aptly put. Maybe we should start a new thread called just that with all the faulty conclusions like that that the mainstream media is foisting on the public. Where a review of the science simply shows that it is what folks are eating. One of the last chapters in my book is on how to interpret your way through their nonsense. We should really try to fight the pseudoscience - it is getting knee deep now. But I think our battle cry should be "Correlation IS NOT Causation!"
|Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 3:43 pm: || |
This is a great MSG opportunity. Writing a letter to the editor may be just the ticket we need to get a much more intelligent take on obesity. I would volunteer, but am truly swamped with work. Just an idea....
|Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 5:27 am: || |
I vote we contract Cherylin to be our correspondent, as she has superlative writing skills.
Posted From: 18.104.22.168
|Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:04 pm: || |
Yikes, Am I learning fast or what? I read this article and at first my heart kind of plummeted, thinking Oh Dear, maybe I'm just confused about everything and it's NOT MSG causing my problem. THEN hooplah deee... I noticed that the placebos in this test were "gelatin". Doesn't that cause similar problems in MSG sensitive people. Hence their double blind study really actually PROVED that what you've been saying on this web site is so... MSG and Sulfites are causing people problems. This was in Australia's No 1 Science and Technology News Service.
Am I right in thinking this? That "gelatin" could have been causing the problems that they thought were just people reacting because of a placebo effect...it was probably a genuine reaction to gelatin, and so they had the same symptoms as the MSG reactors? I know my conclusion isn't very scientific, but it is maybe more scientific than theirs?
Just wanted to share this to let you know that I'm starting to see through a lot of the hoopla that goes on in the world of "food".
Tell me if I have all this wrong though. I want to learn all I can
Thank you again
"Monosodium glutamate is innocent. Australian scientists say it is not responsible for the peculiar sensations some people experience after eating Chinese food. A flushed face, palpitations, weakness and numbness are all symptoms of Chinese restaurant syndrome. But they are probably caused by a 'cocktail' of other components in the food or by too many glasses of wine.
Chemist Leonid Tarasoff and statistician Michael Kelly of the University of Western Sydney recently completed a double-blind study on 71 volunteers of the effects of high doses of MSG before a standard breakfast. Some reaction to MSG was experienced by 15 per cent of the volunteers. However, 14 per cent also reported aftereffects when given a placebo of gelatin powder. 'Most had no reaction at all to MSG or the placebo,' says Tarasoff. "
|Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:29 am: || |
This is amazing to me! Scientists are so dumb, sometimes! YES, gelatin is very high in glutamate...free form glutamate, the form found in MSG that enters the bloodstream immediately. Either these scientists are clueless as to the make up of hydrolyzed bones, cartilage, skin, and all else that is used to make gelatin, or they are being paid to make the tests appear that MSG is safe, as some suspect has happened before. In a test in the 1990's, scientists used aspartame in gelatin capsules as the placebo!! I think the food industry and its lobbyists are afraid...I believe that they know they cannot hush this issue much longer and are buying time and politicians and perhaps scientists.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:33 am: || |
Anon, it would be great if you could write an article about this and submit it to a health publication or newspaper (health editor) in your country. People need to know what is going on, and we only have each other to look out for our health. The food industry is only interested in their deep pockets.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:44 pm: || |
OH, I'd love to let them all know. I'm not very "articulate"? though. Actually, I'm spreading the word among my circle as fast as I can. When I told my daughter in law about this site (because I think MSG might be causing my son problems), she immediately said, "Oh, now I know what is wrong with my friend next door as well. She has migraines ALL the time, even though she is a "health crank". I know that's what's wrong, because I was helping her clean her house, and when we did her pantry it was FULL of packet sauces and mixes and soups, and they use that stuff all the time!". She can't wait to show her this site.
I have another married son who was suffering migraines every week, sometimes 2-3 a week. He said to me, "I might be crazy, but somehow I think it's linked to the iced coffees I buy all the time." (bottled, processed ones). And he thought it was his imagination!!
Now I can tell him he was absolutely right.
So word is spreading. I'm ringing the consumer info lines of each item in my pantry that I'm not sure of, and so is my daughter in law now.
I remember telling a doctor that I thought vegemite could have been causing my problems and that it was a type of MSG. He just shook his head with a kind of cynical amusement. ON the other hand, he couldn't come with an answer for me. Just said my numb chin had him baffled. And the time I ended up in hospital with chest and jaw cramps, not one person asked what I had eaten that day!.
Ok, I am going to write to the magazine where I found the above article, and I will do a bit of detective work and contact the "scientists" who did the study. Wonder if they'll acknowledge me. You'll hear me if they do. smile
(WHOOPS, I said gelatin was full of "sulfites" but I meant "glutamate".)
THanks for the reassurance again. Lindy
|Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:02 pm: || |
Good for you! You will sure make a difference in your circle of friends and family, and they in turn will continue to spread the word. Don't worry about being articulate...just share from your heart using the information you are gleaning. There may be some sulfite residues in gelatin, actually. They use food grade acids and bases to aid in the hydrolysis process for many products.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 5:53 pm: || |
Deb, I just DID it... wrote a long email, questioning the above report, not sure where it would end up. It was on a medical website with heaps of official data and studies etc "proving" that MSG is fine.
Well, I just got a little notice, saying "thank you for your feedback. Your question/comment has been forwarded to the "Australian Glutamate Information Service". Probably not in the highest echelons of Government or Medical hierarchy, but I did send my little ole" voice out their.
I did ask for their reaction, so we'll see. I can hardly believe the hide of the man to say that the reaction could be caused by too many glasses of wine. That's rather derogatory, isn't it, when people are actually ill. Plus I don't drink when we're out, so let's just say it made me a tad mad!!? grin
Another question. I was told it might help me to take Glucosamine because I have rather gritty cartilege in my knee and neck joints. Other than the fact that they start with GLU, is their any connection to glutamates, do you know.
|Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:12 pm: || |
Lindy - The Australian Glutamate Information Service is not even the government or medical hierarcy. It is part of the glutamate industry!!! See -
(1)Who runs the MSG industry? These are the people who run the fiction that MSG is "safe"
(2) The Toxicity/Safety of Processed Free Glutamic Acid (MSG): A Study in Suppression of Information at: http://www.truthinlabeling.org/l-manuscript.html
|Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:34 pm: || |
Yikes, MEMorris, I should have been a wake-up to that. I guess it's good I'm still a wee bit naive, and not totally cynical..yet ...big YET (smile). Ah well, I can console myself in the fact that I've let them know that we don't all take their "information" at face value. Interesting web site.
By the way, whatever happened to Ralph Nader, the consumer protection guru. He was my hero when I was at high school, so he may have passed by now. I think he stirred a few pots, and created a few shock waves back in the 1970's.
Something else I've never understood. Why aren't there ANY healthy take aways..ok, I haven't started up in the business myself, but surely there is a demand for it out there, for busy but aware people. I know it would take a whole re-think with regard to usng fresh foods with transport and refrigeration etc, but isn't it possible? I dream of it sometimes, pulling into a drive through take away, and choosing real food, just as mother nature made it. Ok, I know, I can have an esky of it myself in the car, but just sometimes it would be nice to have a franchise of "good food".
Thanks for your post. Lindy
|Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:22 pm: || |
I got an answer! Sorry if I'm a bit over-excited about this, but I really didn't expect to get an answer from "the Man" himself, Dr. Tarasoff.
His email made me do a bit more research, and I found that this man is very prominent over here in the MSG dispute. MEMorris, he mightn't be in the top echelons of government (smile), but they know all about him. I have read parliamentary debate on food regulations with regard to MSG, and Dr. Leonid Tarasoff was quoted as a prominent chemistry researcher with no affiliation to business. His name comes up in quite a lot of Government issues with regard to the food industry.
Anyway, for what it's worth, I have included my letter and his reply. Just interested in your reactions.. I'm only new to all this, so don't have much understanding. All I know and understand is that I have become sick, and it is definitely related to the food I've been eating, and that food has contained oodles of glutamates in whatever form. Also, since eliminating as many of those foods as I can, I feel much much better. Not fixed yet, but still working on it.
Now is that just psychosomatic? It's not scientific I know, but it's a fact for me. I rest my case...smile
Here is my letter:
Hello, I'm writing out of genuine interest and concern. I have twice become extremely ill after consuming vegemite on crackers each day for several weeks. I have also, on three occasions, become faint, with
sensations of numbness and chest pain after eating out at the same buffet restaurant.
I'm not a scientist, and so I'm quite happy to be corrected if I am wrong in my suppositions. However I was interested to read an article about a double blind study on the effects of MSG, in which Dr. Leonid Tarasoff participated. I quote. "Monosodium glutamate is innocent. Australian scientists say it is not responsible for the peculiar sensations some people experience after eating Chinese food. A flushed face, palpitations, weakness and numbness are all symptoms of Chinese restaurant syndrome. But they are probably caused by a 'cocktail' of other components in the food or by too many glasses of wine. "Chemist Leonid Tarasoff and statistician Michael Kelly of the University
of Western Sydney recently completed a double-blind study on 71 volunteers of the effects of high doses of MSG before a standard breakfast. Some reaction to MSG was experienced by 15 per cent of the volunteers. However, 14 per cent also reported after effects when given a placebo of gelatin powder.'Most had no reaction at all to MSG or the placebo,' says Tarasoff."
What confuses me,....doesn't gelatin contain a fairly high percentage of glutamates?
(It contains about 10% bound glutamate & no free glutamate.) This is where Dr. Tarasoff corrected my email. I didn't know how to highlight it like he did.
A lot of people I know who are MSG sensitive, also react strongly to gelatin, to the extent that they break open capsules and take the powdered medication out, rather than swallow the capsule. Doesn't this mean that the powdered gelatin given as a placebo, was actually similar in composition to the MSG given? And doesn't this rather PROVE, not DIS-prove that people WERE reacting to the MSG as well as the glutamates in the gelatin?
(No – the drink experiment results back the capsule experiment results. Placebo responses are typically 15-30%.) Dr. Tarasoff correcting me again.
I am more than happy to be corrected on this, as I am trying to deal with health issues, of which MSG seems to be a definite cause for me. I'd be
very interested to hear your reactions to this.
Thank you, and kind regards, Linda
And now here is the answer I unexpectedly received.
I have had your email passed to me for comment.
MSG, glutamate, “free glutamate” and glutamic acid are the same thing from the point of view of the body. It is an amino acid which the body uses to construct the various proteins (eg muscles) in the body. Typically, there is 10-20% “bound glutamate” in mammalian proteins. The body manufactures much of its own glutamate (especially in the brain).
Gelatin is a protein extracted from the skin & other collagens from animals. It contains approx 10% “bound glutamate”.
It is best to look at amino acids as "beads" which are combined in the body to give "strings of beads" which are the proteins. These are chemically combined and do not have the same chemical and physical properties as the component amino acids. Glutamate in this form is referred to as “bound glutamate”.
It is not correct to consider gelatin simply as a mixture of amino acids. One only has to try to dissolve MSG in water to illustrate. MSG dissolves quickly to form a thin solution with a beefy taste.
In contrast, Gelatin dissolves slowly, only in hot water to give a gel with a bland taste. Proteins are broken down slowly in the gut to form oligopeptides, tripeptides, dipeptides as well as amino acids.
The experiment used gelatin capsules loaded with MSG Vs Gelatin capsules loaded with gelatin.
We also used drinks which contained MSG and those which contained no MSG. Neither drink contained gelatin, but the results were similar to the capsule experiments.
It is difficult to deduce the cause of an adverse food reaction from a personal experience. Vegemite contains a host of amino acids & thousands of other materials. I am not sure how many materials would be present in crackers or in a buffet restaurant. Hence, it would difficult to deduce which of the tens of thousands of materials in food would cause your problems.
You could exclude (or confirm) the MSG by trying it in the pure form (in gelatin capsules?), preferably under blind conditions.
If you give me your address I will send you a copy of the paper, and another in which I have a debate with a prominent anti-MSG activist. The second deals in part with the notion of gelatin being a mixture of amino acids. This would give you 27 pages of the original scientific text, rather than looking at other peoples summaries of what they thought we did.
There are many more scientific references since my work in the early 90’s which confirm our results.
Regards, Dr Leonid Tarasoff
Ok, I seem to send long messages. Just venting I guess. Do all newbies tend to do this or is it just me?
|Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 3:23 am: || |
Lindy - Very interesting! Thanks for posting it all. I'd be interested in who the anti-MSG activist is in the paper so I hope you send him your address.
We have our own activists here --- Deb A who provides this site to us., Dr. Samuels (www.truthinlabeling,org), Carol H. (www.msgtruth.com) and everyone else who posts here.
|Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 3:49 pm: || |
I would guess that this scientist is working for the glutamate industy. His answers are so typical of the rhetoric we hear time and again as to the safety of MSG and the nature of glutamate, bound or free. I would like to know the ingredients of the liquid...was aspartame used to sweeten both? or was some other substance present which would precipitate an MSG like reaction? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that gelatin is safe and that the glutamate is not free...not when you consider how it is made...boiled bones, tendons and skins using food grade acids and bases to neutralize it....certainly, the bound glutamate is transformed into a free form...at least some of it. The reason that MSG dissolves is because sodium is part of its chemical makeup...just because gelatin takes longer to dissolve is the dumbest suggestion for its safety I have yet to hear. I am no biochemist, either, but I trust my body, too and what it tells me about MSG. Another thing about such tests is the fact that most MSG sensitive individuals do not react right away...they may have mild and transitory reactions at first, but the full blown migraine or stomach reaction or depression may not show up for hours, even days for some of us. This delayed reaction would serve to make most such tests bogus, manipulated, and of course, highly unreliable...especially if the scientist conducting is highly influenced by the glutamate industry and their lobbyists $$$$$. One has only to read Adrienne Samuels' article about such tests....www.truthinlabeling.org. Good job, Anon. You may be new to this, but you are intelligent and courageous....you will continue to be a strong asset to the cause and will more than likely be able to help a lot of people. Keep up the good work!!! You could send your story and the responses you received along with other test results to a woman's or health publication.
Posted From: 22.214.171.124
|Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:03 am: || |
Deb, This Dr. Tarasoff has contacted me again! I thanked him for taking the time to reply and to say that I wouldn't need a copy of the scientific stuff. Well, he sent a nice email back saying that I would actually enjoy a copy of the debate he had with the "anti MSG acitivist" as I would find it rather fun. Apparently there is a poem in there as well. So I wrote back and said Ok, I'd appreciate a copy. So he sent me a website of some parliamentary transcripts, and he is sending other stuff as well to me. He has a bit of a sense of humour and I'm rather tickled about the fact that I am in correspondence with this man. Who would have thought it 2 days ago, from just a simple letter. I'll see what transpires.
Meanwhile, I don't touch anything with MSG if I can avoid it!
Apparently he is not affiliated with any industry...hmmm we'll see,
But I found out that the people I first wrote to, who sent my email to this man, are actually a food liaison company.... advising food companies on government legislation, and acting as a go-between. I'm learning all the time.
Meanwhile, oh, I still have rotten reflux and get bouts of tiredness, and it's been a fortnight. Also ate some fresh salmon (by itself, no other food), that I cooked myself in a tiny bit of olive oil, and I got a funny tingly itch in my cheeks and tongue... now that's a first for me. SO am I getting more sensitive, and is fresh salmon a no no too? I've eaten lots of the tinned stuff with no worries before. Thank you for listening ..again.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:15 am: || |
He freely admitted they used gelatin - which we all know has 10% glutamate in it. His statement that it is ALL bound is quite disingenuous.
Gee, I wonder if "DR." Tarasoff saw this study done: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/105/5/616.pdf
Fish fed meat had barely any rise in free amino acids in the blood stream, but when fed gelatin - the fish actually died and the free amino acids in their system stayed high for A WEEK.
I hate to disabuse him of the notion that MSG is safe, and gelatin is good for you, but that is what we have been battling for decades now - the myth he perpetuates.
I would ask "Dr." Tarasoff what his PhD is in and also if he considered using a placebo that was really a placebo and DIDN'T have the test substance in it.
Nice try, "Dr." but gelatin is NOT meat.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:22 am: || |
Correction - the study consisted of reptiles that were fed fish meat.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 1:10 pm: || |
These scientists remind so much of some of the more arrogant doctors that I have come across (some in my own family) or the ones that I have heard about from MSG victims. It doesn't matter what you tell them or what you show them...THEY are DOCTORS, and well, you know the rest. To be fair, I have known some great ones, too (some in my own family...the younger ones, especially...more open minded).
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 2:09 pm: || |
I guess I sound like I am venting today...guess I am. It's just that when you have been listening to the horror stories from so many people for so many years, you tend to get upset with their doctors who just don't get it, or who will just tune out their patients' words concerning MSG. If we could just get more of them to take a real interest and be more open minded. The ones that listen the most are alternative doctors and practictioners. I am so fortunate to be able to work out of my son's office as his receptionist. When he suspects that one of his patients (and it's a high %)needs MSG information, he guides them to me. We even have Dr. Blaylock's and Dr. Schwartz's books (and mine) out in the waiting room for people to read. Many are reading them, and we have helped a LOT of people as a result. When I get upset, I have to remind myself that we have all come a long way in this cause. Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem that people are becoming more food aware? The demand for organic products is ever increasing. People are also becoming very aware of the increase in disorders like ADD and Autism, Fibro, etc. Early Onset Dementia is also on the rise. A HUGE thanks to all of you amazing individuals out there who are helping in your own way to alert others to the dangers in our foods. Mike and I always pray for guidance and the energy we need to keep up our pace. Without you, we know we would be going nowhere in a hurry! Keep doing what you can in your community and spread the word. Carol, Roy, MeMorrisNJ, Dianne, Cherylin, and I know I've forgotten so many others to name, but I hope you know what a difference you are making in the lives of so many people. You are appreciated and very much needed.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 2:41 pm: || |
Deb, I'm glad you CAN vent. And here is one grateful person who surely appreciates all you do. Yesterday I was in town with my daughter in law (who hadn't heard of MSG till I told her last week). We ran into into a lady we know slightly, who was in a "mess". When I asked her how she was, she got all weepy...she is under enormous stress anyway in her life, but she said she was worried because she had all these weird symptoms going on... numb face, tingling arms..etc etc.. Ok, I concede, the circumstances of her life would be enough alone to cause this. But what thrilled me, and I know will thrill you, is this.... My young daughter in law was listening, and she started making "ohoohhooh" noises, and she said. "Oh, Linda, tell her about MSG.. it could be that. It sounds like it doesn't it?". So we did.
Anyway, just want you to know about the ripple effect that your care is having over here in our own small corner.
PS ..my book arrived today, so I'll be keen to try the recipes.
Regards from Lindy
|Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 4:09 pm: || |
Oh Lindy, thank you so much for telling me about your friend...and thank your daughter-in-law for me...this is the effect we had hoped for in 1995 when we first started this. I still remember saying to Mike how I wished so much that the information would spread on a grass roots level...people telling their friends and family. We knew full well that it was going to be an uphill battle considering the multi-billion dollar food and glutamate industry and their influence on the public and politicians and the FDA...our only hope was caring people in this country like you. Now it's worldwide with the web, and it's working. Thanks for listening to me "vent". This site and all of you add so much to my life. I, like all of you, have to be vigilant each day about what I can eat, and so knowing so many of us here share this unfortunate condition, makes it much easier. And I continue to learn so much from all of you. Lindy, I sure hope your friend listened. You might try copying some of the info in the book for her. Hope you enjoy the recipes...be sure to read the first 81 pages, though...so much info that will help you better avoid hidden glutamate...and it will allow you to help your friend and others better, too. Thanks again for sharing!
|Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:48 am: || |
My husband and I went out to dinner with another couple last winter. As usual I put many questions and requests to the server to pass on to the chef. The man dining with us asked if I was on a special diet. I told him I was trying to avoid MSG. He said, "Oh, I react to it too". Then he proceeded to tell me how sick he gets, mostly migraines, and had no idea that he needed to beware of about 50 other additives/ingredients. I always carry a card in my purse with all of the taboos listed and showed it to him. He asked if I could make him one - of course I was only too happy to oblige, and also wrote down this website for him.
It is a good feeling when someone believes you and wants to know more, because so many others don't.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:16 pm: || |
Wonderful, Dianne! Yes, I sure know what you mean...all of us here do. What's good to know is that even if one person in 100 hears and is helped, that person will most likely go on to help many more...like you do.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:29 pm: || |
One thing that I have noticed is how mean MSG can make some people. Some of our patients have become some of the sweetest people, now that they avoid MSG. I am convinced that MSG causes rage disorder and anxiety, just from my experience here. My daughter who is 37 now, could be very nice and reasonable at times as a teen, but most of the time, I could have given her away. Today, she avoids MSG like the plague, and has told me that when she gets it by mistake, she turns into that mean, angry person she remembers being as a teenager. Oh, the anger and frustration we all could have avoided had we known about MSG back then!
|Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 2:32 pm: || |
I agree Deb. If I get poisoned, I can really tell in how angry I become. I just get totally unreasonable and furious, and can yell for no reason. I hate myself when I am that way. IF I get poisoned I tell my husband, in advance, not to listen to what I say.
msg is a killer
|Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 1:36 am: || |
ok people. I have received all the "papers" from Dr. Tarasoff. Guess what was in the drinks placebos...you were perfectly right: aspartame!
And guess how they chose the test patients. With an advertisement stating that they wanted to test a new soft drink. Now they were very discerning here... they didn't use, and I quote word for word from the study, "buzz words such as 'msg' or 'Chinese Restaurant Synrome'. Phrases such as 'salts of glutamic acid', 'flavour enhancers'. 'tastes' and "sensations' were used instead." end of quote.
I can just see everyone on this site volunteering to participate, can't you? None of us "laymen" are supposed to know that salts of glutamate would mean MSG!! grrr
They also screened the test patients by asking if they had any known allergies, asprin sensitivities, illnesses, asthma, and many other conditions. Only the ones who answered "no" to all questions were able to participate. So that would have eliminated all of us from participating, if we HAD wanted to.
And of course you all knew this already.. but guess who "partly supported" the totally unbiased study... yes you go to the top of the class.. it was the International Glutamate Technical Committee, whoever they are. Hmmmm.
AND, the time allowed for "reactions" was 2 hours.
Ok, I might be an unscientific housewife, but put people in a room and get them to smoke a placebo cigarette and an ordinary one, in a scientific double blind study. Compare the reactions after 2 hours and if there are no adverse affects in that time, then I guess that proves that smoking is harmless... wow! Perhaps I'd better submit a paper on it.
Oh dear, I'm so sorry for all the sarcasm, but you do need to get it out sometimes don't you.
Thanks for listening again. .
sorry, I must get it all off my chest. Here is a quote from the great scientist.
"the time was the swinging sixties. Flower power was popular and poorly understood acronyms such as the CIA, the KGB and LSD were in common use. MSG and CRS soon became household words and were associated with the other poorly understood acronyms. By the end of 1968 the 'evil effects of MSG' were a subject of media coverage".
So all you people out there who only THINK you are sick, well, Dr. Tarasoff says it is because you listened to too many Beatle songs, believed in free love and thought the KGB was a food additive.
Oh boy I'd better stop, I think I've done my venting. I don't even know if I can be bothered writing back to the man. I don't wish MSG (sorry, CIA) toxicity on anyone, but I would like to cook the man dinner one night... oh evil me!!
|Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 6:09 am: || |
That was GREAT! You perfectly showed in just one post exactly how they mislead us with the pseudoscience. Thank you for analyzing that study for us. You found the tainted placebo, the cherry picking of test subjects, the funding source, and the time to react - which can be longer than that. My allergist told me that leukotrienes which are released from cells in the immune system in addition to histamine - (which is immediate), and cause inflammation often have delayed action hours later - which appears to be the main problem I suffer from.
In other news - I am currently trying to track down the exact scientific method they used for Bragg's Liquid Aminos. Someone just sent me the Chemical Laboratory report showing that there is no free glutamic acid present, but I am waiting for calls back from the lab. Someone is just dying to get Bragg's Liquid Aminos off my Avoid list. Does anyone else have any information about how they did the analysis for that? We have to turn into skeptical reviewers of these "studies".
Why else is every new food theory turning to garbage right now? The lycopene theory, the antioxidant theory and all the rest? Because "studies" were done and paid for by vested interests and they interpreted the study to make you eat tomato sauce - or beta carotene or garlic pills.
The thing is this:
These "double blind" food studies don't give good accurate fool proof data. Correlation is not causation. Animal studies that are carefully controlled give much better data for food science.
If MSG caused your heart disease AND gave you high homocysteine levels as an added bonus - it DOES NOT MEAN that lowering the homocysteine levels will cure your heart disease. It only means that lowering homocystiene levels lowered homocystiene levels while MSG may still be damaging your heart. I can't stress this point enough. While the maintstream media is busy chasing its tail on stories like these, the real story is getting away.
Correlation IS NOT CAUSATION. The next story that lists RISK FACTORS - just run the other way. Run as fast as you can.
I am a living example that they are wrong on this stuff.
When I was thin and extremely sensitive to MSG, I had high blood pressure so high it made doctors wince.
Now that I am 80 lbs overweight from a pituitary tumor but avoiding MSG, the ONLY RISK FACTOR I have from being overweight is ........... being overweight. My blood pressure is low without medication. I have normal blood glucose levels. I don't have "metabolic syndrome". I am actually healthier than I was when I was thin but being poisoned by MSG. Then I had migraines, heart palpitations, 150/118 blood pressure, migraines every day, projectile vomiting, hypoglycemia. Today I have - food allergies and depression which runs in my family.
Risk factors. Getting rid of "risk factors" does not mean you get rid of the thing that causes the disease. It just means you locked up the innocent bystander instead of the perp, hoping he will talk.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:00 am: || |
I'm skeptical of EVERY study done anywhere by anyone. I've learned that conducting a useful, valid study is quite complex and there are very few studies that are unbiased and can report a reliable conclusion. It was years ago that I learned "correlation is not causation".
It never ceases to amaze me how gullible some people are - believing everything they read or hear right off the bat. The media loves to report that a new study indicates something or other MAY lead to (or help with) some other thing. Then I hear many listeners claim they heard that a new study says such-'n-such helps with this or that, taking it as the truth. I've learned you need to research for yourself, use common sense and reason, then proceed cautiously with any new important idea.
I love today's world of technology and the internet providing a wealth of resources at your fingertips....especially this site....which has been soooooooo helpful. Thanks everyone
|Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:47 pm: || |
It never ceases to amaze me how food and vitamin fads start. A doctor wrote the other day that some of his colleagues still have margarine in their own fridges, because the last paper they read about cholesterol was in 1960. I can believe it.
They find that Japanese women don't (didn't) get as much breast cancer and they eat soy... so suddenly we have soy supplements, soy snacks, soy everything. Oops, they find that they drink green tea too, so we have green tea flavoured milks with "health food" in big letters. Hold on, they also have a lot of seaweed in their food.. now we can buy packet chips with seaweed added. and next thing they have pulled these foods apart, found the "magic" chemical in it, and put it in a pill. I think I got beyond disillusionment when I saw my first "GREEN TEA SUPPLEMENT" in the health shop.
I remember when butter was a killer, and in the 1960's, all my parents friends were barbecuing with the new healthy liquid vegetable oils. My Dad's best friend was told he had high cholesterol, and I still remember going to visit them and they were doing all the "right things" by using lots of vegie oil and margarine. Deep frying in it, pouring it on salad, and putting lecethin granules on their cereal. The man died of a massive heart attack 12 months later at 48.
Having said all that, I'm still the woman who buys herbal shampoo, but that's because I like the picture on the bottle, not because I believe it has herbs in it.
I'm thankful that I had a mother who usually saw through the hype...she used to say, just stick to food as close to how mother nature made it in the first place. Funny thing, even 40 years ago, she would never ever let us eat packet chips.. she told us, "that salt on them is just man made chemical, I'm sure".
I've eaten a lot of junk food in my day, but I think I've only ever bought about 3 packets of those chips in all my 52 years. Mum knew about msg before it was famous.
STill venting... I think I'll get over it, but righteous indignation tends to build up if it doesn't have an outlet.
Love this site. And I love the title of this thread, "now they're just getting silly"..
Kind of sums it all up beautifully. I used to wonder who the vague "they" are, but now I've sort of "met" one of the "they" whose scientific data and analyses are treated as absolute truths, it has opened my eyes even more, to just how silly they can get. Trouble is the "silliness" is ruining lives.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 7:23 am: || |
Don't you think fads get started with anything people think they can make a dollar from? I remember when I was young (or younger - about 45 years ago) hearing on TV the motto of GE "Progress is our most important product" and thinking I'm not so sure all this progress is a such good thing. Still feel that way today but even more so. It seems that any time someone can benefit from something, even at others' expense, they will promote it. My 9th grade business teacher taught us "Caveat emptor" - I wasn't sure but I thought I understood it at the time, but only later did I understand the full meaning.
I am thankful too for having a mother and father who also instilled in me the pitfalls of processed food. At the time I wasn't happy that I couldn't have soda, etc. But at least I didn't have a real hard time eliminating those processed foods later that had gradually crept into my kitchen over the years.
You can vent all you want - we all (well maybe not all) do it here and support everyone else.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 4:29 pm: || |
You people are wonderful...wish I could grab each of you in a big hug. I used to feel very alone in this...especially after NOMSG disbanded. I wish someone would "put us out of business" by being honest enough and powerful enough to expose the truth about excitotoxins. But until that happens, it's so good to rub e-shoulders with all of you here. Lindy, here's a suggestion. Print up the entire conversation, starting with your first post and send it to the "expert" who delights in deceiving the public and who is very careful not to bite the hand that might be feeding him or that's making him feel very important...power, fame and money...it's what too many people live for..what a waste. The Glutamate Technical Committee is a fancy name for a group of lobbyists who work for the glutamate and food industry. There are many of them all over the world. Go to their site, and you can see who they work for. Carol, I admire so much what you did when you gave up your position out of integrity. But you and I can feel rich when one of the people we have helped says, and I quote her words to me, " I would rather feel the way I do now than have a million dollars in the bank and feel the way I did before." I cannot tell you the joys Mike and I have felt over the years when someone has really listened and reclaimed their health after years of pain and frustration. I know now that there are enough younger people involved, and that is so comforting to us. We may be be 60 and 61, but I gotta tell you, we feel a lot younger than most of our friends...and it's because of the way we eat. Like you, Carol..I was thinner and miserable..but to paraphrase my friend, "I would rather be fat and ugly and feel like I do now...etc., etc." Carol is a doll, by the way. Haha! Vent anytime, Lindy!
|Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:26 am: || |
Deb A., You're a doll too - I recently saw you in an interview clip.
|Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:58 pm: || |
Pshaw! But thanks, Dianne. Mike's the real cutie...I'm a bit biased. Guys, we have been so busy, but I think it's time we posted some photos again on our discussion board...so if you like, send them to: Front Porch Productions
P.O. Box 895
Richland, WA 99325
We'll try to find a moment to post them. It would be nice to put faces to the names of our friends here. BTW, I want to say a big thanks to those of you who gave me such good advice about the colonoscopy. Had it last week and all went well. I used the Tri-Lyte...also called Nulyte, and just drank it without the flavor packs. After the first couple drinks of basically thick salt water, I decided to add a little pure almond extract and stevia...made it more palatable. But my biggest problem were the 4 Dulcalax tablets they had me take soon after I finished the liquid. Didn't check the ingredients, but they gave me the dry heaves, dizziness, and cramping. The procedure was a snap after that...and results were good, thankfully. After previous years of terrible IBS, I was worried.
|Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:13 pm: || |
The photos need to actual prints, emailing them won't work?
|Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 2:58 pm: || |
Yes, do email them...just attach and send to email@example.com
|Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 2:38 pm: || |
I just caught the end of a news program today where the man being interviewed said there is a new study (yep another study with MAY) that indicated that Obesity MAY be due to a contagious virus. The interviewer acted like it was definately the reason why so many Americans were obese.....did anyone else see this or read this? I MAY be missing something.
|Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 4:39 pm: || |
Again, they mistake correlation for causation. What if obese folks made obese by MSG are more susceptable to that virus? They are already usually made leptin resistant and their metabolism is changed - as well as their immune systems. My system fights new allergens every year - it's like an arms race to keep up. The only difference between me and most folks with allergies is that I was exposed occupationally to large amounts of MSG and aspartame. My immune system is crazy now. But saying a virus CAUSES obesity? What are the skinny folks going to quarantine us all now? Yikes. Wish they would stick to jumping to conclusions about simple animal studies they can control.
Posted From: 126.96.36.199
|Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:05 pm: || |
On Sciencedaily.com there's an article about this.
Basically they removed fat stem cells from liposuction patients and cultured them. The cells that got the virus matured into fat cells. No mention was made of what kind of people the cultures came from. Though lean folks probably aren't going to have liposuction. The article also mentioned that something like 11% of lean people had the virus and 30% of obese people have the virus. Doesn't prove a thing.
|Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 1:28 pm: || |
Right. It's the same with the virus said to cause Chronic Fatigue Syndrome...Can't remember the correct name of it...Bars Epstein virus??? Anyway, after many years, they decide to test people without the condition and they too, had been exposed to the same virus...at about the same rate.
|Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 5:53 am: || |
What if EVERYBODY has the virus. Then folks with obesity, and alzheimer's and diabetes and whatever will have the virus.
Don't know if you have seen the flying spaghetti monster theory. It's hilarious. It takes ridiculousness like this to the next level Although the target is religion, the nonsense works on bad science as well. http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
Basically the funniest premise is that because the number of pirates has decreased over time as global warming has increased, then you can only conclude that global warming is directly caused by the decline of pirates. And so it goes. If you see the FSM or pictures of the flying spaghetti monster - it was initially begun from a letter to a school board about teaching crazy theories in science class if they are going to teach Creationism. However, the humor applies equally well to poor conclusions drawn from pseudoscience of the type we see in the news every day.
The followers of the FSM are called pastafarians and their prayers end with "ramen". It's actually hilarious although I don't think my born again sisters would appreciate the humor. The Darwin fish on the back of cars drives my younger sister nuts.
Anyway, it is time to call psuedoscience nonsense out when we see it.