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Comparison of Bound and Free Glutamat...

Battling the MSG Myth » Sharing Scientific Information » Comparison of Bound and Free Glutamate in foods « Previous Next »

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Carol H
Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 7:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought this would be helpful since we are often asked which foods are high in glutamate naturally and which aren't. Now we must distinguish between bound and free. Foods high in bound glutamate are not a problem UNLESS they are cooked long and processed. Foods high in free glutamate before cooking should be eaten with caution. Here's the list, in mg/100 g
the first number is bound, the second free:

Cow’s milk 819 2
Human milk 229 22
Parmesan cheese 9847 1200
Eggs 1583 23
Chicken 3309 44
Duck 3636 69
Beef 2846 33
Pork 2325 23
Cod 2101 9
Mackerel 2382 36
Salmon 2216 20
Peas 5583 200
Corn 1765 130
Beets 256 30
Carrots 218 33
Onions 208 18
Spinach 289 39
Tomatoes 238 140
Green peppers 120 32

Here is another list. The numbers represent the percentage of free amino acid to total free amino acids present:

First number is aspartic acid, next is glutamic acid:

peanuts 2.1 25.5
almond
pecan 19.8 18.6
broccoli 8.4 14.5
green bean 4.5 2.1
kale 2.6 8.3
spinach 4.5 22.5
cauliflower 35.7 16.1
potato 3.2 4.3
crisping potato 2.0 4.0
processed cassava 0.9 2.5
asparagus 5.0 11.2
milled rice 19.0 34.8
rye 5.9 16.8
w heat 22.9 15.5
malt 6.4 15.6
blackcurrant 1.9 19.6
navel orange 8.9 3.9
lemon 24.7 13.0
tomato 11.6 34.2
banana 10.6 6.2
pineapple 9.1 2.8
strawberry 2.7 7.4
cantaloupe 22.3 8.7
apple juice 15.6 3.9
grape juice 2.3 3.6
pineapple juice 4.1 4.7
perry pear juice 10.0 10.0
green arabica coffee 11.5 25.3
green robusta coffee 10.7 12.5
red wine 4.5 16.2
pork 0.3 2.0
chicken 2.8 10.5
beef 1.1 27.7
cheese (Cheddar) 1.9 18.5

This explains that the common cry that human milk contains more FREE glutamate than cow's milk is essentially true, but that cow's milk contains nearly 4 times the actual glutamate - so if liberated it would have substantially MORE free glutamate than human milk. It shows why parmesan cheese is so high in free glutamate. Keep in mind, foods high in protein, like meat for instance, would have more free glutamate than foods low in overall protein, like milled rice. Also keep in mind foods containing vitamin C help protect against glutamate, but not if you destroy the Vit C in cooking. (Hope I didn't confuse everyone too much) Fresh meat and fish are high in taurine as well so they have a protective, balanced effect. I will try to get a taurine content table too, and compare. Perhaps we can start to compile a list that gives a relative scale of "excitotoxicity" for common foods, listing apspartic acid, glutamic acid, taurine content, magnesium content, and vitamin C content, and a common "score" based on these numbers so that those of us new to cooking MSG free can start with safer foods so we don't poison ourselves in our own kitchens just by cooking certain foods too long.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 8:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As for taurine content, here is information regarding taurine in foods in China. Apparently, they want to recommend increasing animal protein - especially fish consumption due to its taurine content and protective effects on hypertension. Four different regions of China were studied and there was a relationship found - higher fish consumption - higher taurine consumption - lower blood pressure. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks taurine in the diet is a good thing, and that the low taurine content in the Chinese diet is detrimental. http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN/Vol3/Num3/33p131.htm

Note that in the link, Taurine was not detected in beans, rice, or egg. Also "The lowest prevalence of hypertension was among people that lived in fishing areas and this may be related to the high taurine content in their diet"

Unfortunately, they don't make the link that MSG in the Chinese diet detrimentally affects taurine levels in the body.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 6:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for posting this great information, Carol. I just made a copy to have handy. :)
Jerry Story
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Question:

I heard a rumor that glutamate can be l-glutamate or d-glutamate. And all the glutamate in nature is l-glutamate. But artificial glutamate is part d-glutamate. And l-glutamate is safe (or less dangerous). And d-glutamate is very bad.

Is this rumor true?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 3:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jerry,

L-glutamate is implicated in stroke damage.

http://www.anesthesiology.org/pt/re/anes/abstract.00000542-199512000-00014.htm;jsessionid=DDbFxFo2wfX5YbrFEWOD2gJSWUzSOFPfjSrNKGV9LwIg0VMV44JR!-493675929!-949856145!9001!-1

The article linked below mentions some differences in how they react. Section 6, which discusses diseases associated with excess glutamate, was alarming.

http://www.bioscience.org/1998/v3/d/palmada/d701-718.htm
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 7:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, l-glutamate is the technical word for the form found in nature and in our bodies and brains. When a food source rich in this natural glutamate is denatured by fermentation, heat and/or chemicals, the peptide linkages are broken down and free l-glutamic acid is created along with d- glutamic acid. Also created are pyro-glutamic acid, contaminants and carcinogens, according to Jack Samuels. These free glutamates can enter the bloodstream 8 to 10 times faster than the form found naturally in food. The d form is not found in nature, normally. But even the naturally occurring glutamate from food eventually gets broken down into free l-glutamate by our digestive system, as it is supposed to. The problem is, along with the glutamate from food, we are overloading on these other factory made forms in our processed foods at abnormal rates in this country.
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 2:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Geben mir bitte eine Brotchennan
James D.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 4:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been hypersensitve to excito's for a long time now. My diet was so limited! If I addded brocolli, lettuce, carrots, sunflower seeds, turkey or chicken I would get reactions.

During that time I was relying on hard boiled organic eggs as my main protein source (5/day with one yolk total).

First I tried cooking them using the "simmer method" but it made no discernable difference. Then I suspected that they may have more free glutamate in them or something in them that makes me more sensitive. When I eliminated them from my diet the heart palpitations (my first reaction symptom) went away!

Now I have added brocolli, carrots, sunflower seeds, pineapple, and chicken to my diet with no symptoms!

This seems to indicate that the organic eggs I was buying have a much higher free glutamate level than what the list above indicates,or maybe something in them that exacerbates symptoms?

Has anyone else suspected or have had trouble with eggs? Could something else be going on with me and eggs that is not glutamate related?
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 10:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I suspect that the diet the chicken eats may have an effect on the amount of glutamate in the egg....also supplements they may be given. Soy based diets are big now for chickens. I have wondered about the diet the chickens have to produce the new high omega 3 eggs.
Lisa Marie
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi James,
What did you cook them in? I can't eat regular store white eggs (most of the time) and the ones Deb listed with increased omega 3s give me problems. If they are eggs straight from a farm, I do fine. And, some organic ones that have not been tampered with, or that don't come from a large farm, like Organic Valley, I do okay with. I am one of the few, from what I have read on this board, that can't eat Organic Valley cream cheese, yet I do fine with Organic Valley whole milk. Good luck figuring it out.
Dianne
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 4:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

James, I do remember several other posts coming from people that do not tolerate eggs. You aren't alone.
James D.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 9:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb, Lisa Marie & Dianne. This verifies the problem. They were organic eggs simmered in water and they are advertised as high in Omega 3.
Melinda
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 5:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

James....I can not eat eggs that have the added Omega 3 in them, which usually is a result of feeding the chickens large amounts of flax which I understand is high in glutamates (just recently learned that about flax here on the board).

I am eating regular organic eggs currently on a daily basis and am not sure if they are the cause of my symptoms I've been having just about daily or not, but they and tuna are the only two sources of protein I can eat at this time.

I've recently had to give up beef, chicken and lamb (all organic), and my diet is so extremely limited right now that if I cut out anything, I'd be left with very little to sustain me. But it is interesting to hear how you cut out the eggs and now can have those other items without any reactions. Perhaps it was the eggs all along!

Have you eaten organic eggs without Omega 3's to see how you do?
James D.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 4:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will this post show up properly on the latest topics page? I made two posts a while ago that never showed up and no response from the email I sent to the administrator.

Melinda, I have been able to eat organic grain fed non-omega 3 eggs without problems. I limit myself to 2/day.
Vincent
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 7:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Carol H,
Thanks for the very interesting message you posted on on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 7:55 am about the glutamate concentrations in specific foods.
I would be very happy to know the reference from which you took this data, if you have this available!
Thanks in advance,
Vincent
DebA.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 8:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vincent, I just emailed Carol with your inquiry, just in case she doesn't see it here.
carolh
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 7:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vincent, Thanks for the question. I regret I am having trouble finding the source on that one. I had several computer crashes since then and have lost some data. I am sifting to find that file. Thanks for reminding me of it though - I should put that on the MSGTruth website.
carolh
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 11:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

New gene found for Migraine that predisposes someone to be affected by environmental factors
http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=Kcnk18

The gene is also nicknamed the TRESK gene.See story from BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11408113

According to THIS article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=search&term=18190784&dopt=b

GLUTAMATE ACTIVATES TRESK.

So now we have the smoking gun for MSG induced migraines. Will post this on MSGTruth. The TRESK gene makes one MORE susceptible to an MSG induced headache.
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 1:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vincent,

There is a list on page 14 of this link that may be what you are looking for.

http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/MSG%20Technical%20Report.pdf
carolh
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, You are the Linkmeister!

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