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MSG VS GLUTAMATE & GLUTAMINE

Battling the MSG Myth » Sharing Scientific Information » MSG VS GLUTAMATE & GLUTAMINE « Previous Next »

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5of4
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 3:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we are erroneously refering to MSG as Glutamate, which is misleading. I refer you to an interesting article. About half way down it give the explanation of the difference in these 3.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag99/sep99-report3.html

I am a long time user of L-Glutamine and have had no adverse reactions to it. I quit taking it a few months ago as part of my elimination diet, when I realized that for several months I had been reacting to something, and was going around in a fog most of the time. MSG may be one of the "culprits", however I had Thanksgiving Turkey which unbeknownst to me at the time had it under 3 of its names - and no bad reaction! Last nite I had a pretty good sized piece of sweet white onion and bang! - a burning went up the left side of my head and across my scalp. 24 hours later I still have numbish feeling on the left side.
I have found potatos to be "safe". Zuccini (peeled) and organic skim milk. That was tonite's supper. As soon as I get clear I want to try the L-Glutamine again. Will let you know.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 9:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

5of4: Thank you for the really interesting article. It will take me a time to absorb. There is another interesting site with an intro by Russell Blaylock who wrote the "Excitotoxins..." book. That article is titled Glutamine Based Growth Hormone Releasing Products: A Bad Idea?. It's at http://home.earthlink.net/~swibber/glutaminerisks.htm .
Thank you again.
5of4
Posted on Friday, January 03, 2003 - 2:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, Thank you for your interesting article.
Parts of it leave me somewhat confused. It says that glutamine is a precursor to glutamate, GABA and ammonia. GABA is a "downer" and glutamine is said to "clean up ammonia".

As for damaging ageing brains, well, I began taking it about 4 years ago along with DMAE. I was trying to relearn the piano, and was having a terrible time just remembering the song from one day to the next or from the top of the page to the bottom. After 3 weeks of DMAE (4 caps) and 2 grams of glutamine a day there was a dramatic improvement in my mental abilities. I am now 74 years old, I still work as a records researcher (2 half days a week), do art, and spend considerable time on internet message boards debating issues (which also calls for lots of research.)

Also mentioned in your article was the implication that GLYCINE helped to facilitate the glutamate exitotoxicity. Glycine is, as is GABA a "downer". I have taken both at bed time. Glycine, however, can build up and keep me groggy. Glycine is a sugar. The article indicates that sugar feeds the brain and therefore uses up the "spark" of the glutamate, so it should not be a "helper" to the exitotoxicity of the glutamate.

I have also taken some of the newer growth hormone releasers - they do work, but nothing dramatic. No one would notice the decrease of tiny lines, as on the eylids. There is a lot of hype on the injectables, but I have yet to see any real results. I wonder why our rich and famous do not all look 20 years younger. Surely they can afford the stuff.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 3:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This link has diagrams explaining the roles of glutamate and glutamine.

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~ais/website/status/neurotox.htm
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 9:39 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So are we to suggest that we should be taking glutamine if it inhibits glutamate toxicity? I remember a big debate about glutamine when we were in NoMSG...if I recall correctly, it was not considered a good thing to do.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 3:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

I think glutamate avoidance is the only way to go.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So far, it would seem the best and safest route, Roy.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have read that glutamine is converted to glutamate in the brain...it was in the Beyond-A-Century vitamin brochure.
J. R. Kerr
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 6:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not saying MSG is good for you, but it's not to blame for everything. I liked the list of "symptoms" it seems everything comes down to MSG. I amazed how people even got sick before MSG was synthesised. I feel that taking such a sensationalist stance towards MSG is actually convincing people that scientists are right. Scientists tell the people "It's OK we've done some experiments and found MSG to be pretty harmless". You say "Ahh! MSG is the cause of so many problems....conspiracy.....cancer.....etc." Provide some dubious, unscientific evidence and some highly subjective personal anectdotes. I think I would believe the scientists.

If you really wanted to 'expose' MSG. You could replicate experiments. Because, believe it or not, the procedure and method for all breakthrough studies are published in peer reveiwed journals! So instead of taking third hand science out of some health tabloid you could actually approach the facts from an entirely unbiased perspective.
Cheeto
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 3:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes when we read the symptoms it sounds like we are blaming MSG for everything. Well if you think about how it can be in less than 99% pure form in about 40 substances .One or more of those substances are in 99% of processed foods .Think about how many processed foods the average person eats a day ? Starting with baby formula and baby foods?Milk ?
All I can tell you is I was having some scary symptoms over this summer and fall . But it actually started long before .
At first were cases of stomach cramps and many trips to bathroom.Dr said its probably hormones.
then I felt bad or sleepy after eating and tired all the time and my muscles and joints ached. my heart raced , I had hot flashes and cold flashes . My lips swelled like a yubangi. I broke out in hives . I was having tingling in my hands and feet . My ears were ringing I felt like I was being shocked under my skin . I thought I would go crazy . Finally my throat swelled with the hives as my eye swelled shut too. I quit eating processed foods and all this has gone away.I can almost detect if I eat something with msg, my lips tingle .MSg and ASpartame are neurotransmitters so what happens if a person keeps on ingesting msg or aspartame without knowing where these symptoms come from ? Think about it . It could only get worse .
Jerry Story
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 5:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

J.R. Kerr says:
"If you really wanted to 'expose' MSG. You could replicate experiments. Because, believe it or not, the procedure and method for all breakthrough studies are published in peer reveiwed journals! So instead of taking third hand science out of some health tabloid you could actually approach the facts from an entirely unbiased perspective."

Click on "Recent Research News" on this website (Battling the MSG Myth).

To get "the facts from an entirely unbiased perspective" ignore the glutes. And ignore the FDA because the glutes have the FDA by the .....

There is lots of -unbiased- peer-reviewed evidence against MSG. Is there any -unbiased- evidence that MSG is safe?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many officials at the FDA have ended up with cushy jobs in the food industry. Wonder why that has gone on for so long? Hmmmm. $$$$$$$$$$ to look the other way? Can anyone REALLY assume that what the FDA has deemed safe, esecially one so untested as MSG, is safe? So far, the only people who have defended MSG's safety are those who benefit from it financially. When their pockets are threatened, watch out. Well, my health was not only threatened by MSG, it was destroyed by it for many years. I KNOW there are millions of people whose health woes would disappear or diminish if they avoided MSG and the 80+ other forms of it that are hidden in food. See, the unfortunate thing is, many people are fooled to think that if they avoid Chinese food or Accent, then they are avoiding the additive MSG. They, and I bet most doctors and scientists, would be shocked to learn about all the glutamate that is present in most processed foods today and how much the average adult, child and infant are ingesting. Researchers are very aware of the bad effects of glutamate on the brain (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, bi-polar, the list is long), but they too, are lulled into thinking that we can't get too much of it by eating the typical diet today. I for one put less stock in the faulty and biased tests that have been performed on MSG by the FASEB or food industry, and VERY much on over 400 unbiased lab tests and anecdotal stories. I have spoken with thousands of people who have shared their very important stories about MSG and their health over the years. They DO mean something. Anecdotal stories are the very things that have started real and positive change in the past. Most doctors prescribe and treat based on what their patients tell them. Inventors are influenced by what people tell them. I got well by listening to what some very caring people told me. There are some very real and alarming health epidemics going on in this country. With all our high tech meds and drugs, and so called healthy foods, then what is going on? Have you spoken with the many parents of children diagnosed with ADD, asthma, and autism who have their children whole and normal again, as I have? (due of MSG elimination)? As neurologist Carol Foster has said, nothing could have brought our country's health down so quickly, crossing every economical and social line, than our common foods. She runs a headache clinic in Arizona and bases her treatment on MSG and aspartame elimination, using our book in classes for patients. I used to be the kind who scoffed at health food "nuts", and scare stories. I had to lose my health to learn for myself just how safe my food really was. I care very little if skeptics criticize me today. I only care about reaching and helping the ones who are still suffering as those of here once did. There is a clinical pharmacist at the U. of Florida (Jerry Smith) who has submitted his findings about the effects of MSG on fibromyalgia patients (they got well with avoidance) to a medical journal. It takes years to get such things passed and published, if they do at all. The journals have come under fire lately....bribes, advertising by drug companies, etc. So it's really up to us what we believe or want to believe. As for me, I no longer can live in La La Land when it comes to food additive safety.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Walnuts and AuxiGro.
Jack Samuels just sent this to me in response to an inquiry of one of our posters.
"You asked about the use of AuxiGro on walnuts. The EPA has exempted glutamic acid for use on all crops. Therefore, it could be used on walnuts in all states other than California.

California limited its approval of AuxiGro for use on specific crops, including almonds, but not walnuts. Since this approval dates back to 2002, we have again asked them for the current status of the use of AuxiGro in California. I will let you know what we hear from the folks in California.

In the meantime, you might see the approved crops, as of 2002, in California on which AuxiGro can be used. This 2002 list is at http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/cgi-bin/label/labrep.pl.

Jack
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction from Jack:
"So use just the short form, and then click on Look up pesticide products at the lower right hand side of the opening page.

http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/

This is the AuxiGro page at the CDPR. Note that the date is 2002."
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 8:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks again for all the people you help, Deb A., and for all the doubters you take on. You're A#1 with me!
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 10:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Roy. You made my day. I'm always so happy to know you are a click away....you and so many other like-minded pillars in our unique community here!
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

J,R, Kerr obviously hasn't been listening to the evidence. Nowhere do we blame MSG for cancer. MSG is responsible for the endocrine-disrupting and nervous system related disorders. Kerr says they would rather listen to the "scientists" than to us. Kerr hasn't even been listening to us enough to understand what we are saying, and that some of us ARE the scientists, and health professionals. And that a literature review of peer-reviewed science is what we have been doing all along. Why recreate experiments that have been proven and are agreed on by the "experts"? What we are trying to do is actually let the public know of the existence of these studies. Obviously J.R. Kerr isn't aware of the peer-reviewed studies done to date, which further proves our case, his/her ignorance, and in addition, J.R. Kerr's inability to credibly pass judgement on us.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:37 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MSG may not cause cancer, but the link below implies that it may have a role in its growth.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=33475
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 1:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Considering that glutamate is the most important and powerful neurotransmitter in the brain (from what I've read), it's influence on our body, especially when we get far too much of it, can not be underestimated...even when it comes to diseases like cancer. It shakes up the balance, disrupts our hormones, blood vessels/chemistry, immune response, and so much more. These are no small matters for our systems to handle continually.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 5:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That is something to think about, but I guess my point is that if we were truly blaming MSG for everything, cancer would be at the top of our list. It isn't.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 8:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correct. I've never made cancer a big MSG issue. That needs to be addressed, to be sure, but just trying to get people to correlate their headaches or fibromyalgia to MSG is challenging enough! I remember Dr. Schwartz commenting years ago that there are glutamate receptors in the breast and in the lungs. He suggested that perhaps MSG is one of the factors in the huge rise in breast cancer....food for thought.
Carol, there must be something going on, nationally. ..perhaps some article in a magazine. We are suddenly getting several orders a day for the last week or so. We've also received 2 orders from the UK this week, along with a couple from Canada. Next call I get about the book this week, I will have to do a little sleuthing. Perhaps this is why the glutes have been bugging us lately.
Anonymous
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 5:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Qwan
Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MSG and Glutamate are two different things.
Mothers milk contains a lot of glutamate so does tomatoes and i am sure it doestn affect anybody
You are right about L-glutamine It is infact the building block otherwise it wouldnt be so much in mother milk and other dairy products.
The problem with MSG is that it is artificial and not only that. After they isolated glutamine or glutamic acid they found it very unstable so they added sodium to stabalise it.
Now I have never seen any of anti-msg sites talk about this.
This could be the very reason why Glutamine though being a natural substance is reacting when given in MSG form.
because when you add something to it it may inhibit the same properties but there could be something else added to its properties.
Just take this if you add sodium to water it will ignite violently. And water in its pure form is essential to all known forms of life

So how can we believe that when you add sodium to glutamine or glutamic acid it is safe.
The sodium could be causeing the problem.
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 2:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Zoomer
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am glutamate oversensitive and if I take glutamine in the morning on an empty stomach I get the MSG-reaction about four to six hours later. (Direct exposure to MSG give me the reaction after around 45 minutes to one hour.)
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I believe that glutamine can transaminate into glutamate in the body. I feel that most supplements are not worth the negative effects that they often have. Avoid processed foods and eat fresh foods.

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