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Some sulfite info

Battling the MSG Myth » Sharing Scientific Information » Some sulfite info « Previous Next »

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Anonymous
 
Posted From: 209.204.178.27
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 2:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was trying to look into a possible cause of sulfite sensitivity, and found this article:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/3/757

Here's an excerpt - not sure if there's any answer in there, but it's interesting anyway. A possible piece of the puzzle. Sulfites as an excitotoxin? Isn't glutamate dehydrogenase used to metabolize glutamate into something else? Sulfites may block that enzyme if I'm reading it correctly.

Jennifer


In the postmortem examination of a 9-month-old boy with probable molybdenum cofactor deficiency in whom the neuropathologic lesions were similar to those seen in isolated sulfite oxidase deficiency, X-ray energy microanalysis revealed excess sulfur in the neuronal cell bodies and dendrites, and excess magnesium in the neuronal cell bodies. Because NMDA receptor activation of rat cortical neurons has previously been shown to cause an increase in intracellular magnesium concentrations, the authors postulated that neuronal injury might be attributable to either the direct toxicity of sulfites or excessive NMDA receptor activation by sulfur-containing amino acids, leading to increases in intracellular magnesium and calcium concentrations.37 However, the sulfur and magnesium concentrations in the neurons of patients with isolated sulfite oxidase deficiency have never been reported, and it is uncertain whether these compounds indeed contribute to the neuropathogenesis seen in isolated sulfite oxidase deficiency.

More recently, it was found that, when rat and mouse neuronal cell lines were exposed to sulfites in vitro, there was an increase in the production of reactive oxygen species and a reduction in intracellular ATP production.38 The authors also found that glutamate dehydrogenase in rat brain mitochondria was inhibited by sulfites; they hypothesized that this might result in an "energy crisis" at the level of the neurons, with secondary inhibition of the tricarboxylic acid cycle, leading to widespread neuronal ischemia and the neuropathologic lesions seen in sulfite oxidase deficiency.
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 3:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There has to be a relationship. Dr. Blaylock discusses it some in his book, Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills. He says that ingesting sulfites along with MSG intensifies the reactions....I can attest to that!! And this article demonstrates why. In many European countries, sulfites are banned. It's a crime that the FDA lists it as safe. If you read about the history of sulfite use in this country, you will find that greedy food producers pushed it through the FDA when the scientist responsible for exposing its dangers if used as a preservative, was away in Europe. They wanted a cheap way to keep their products like dried fruits, from spoiling or turning brown. It's always about greed and $$$$. Thanks, Jennifer.
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 209.204.178.27
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 4:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was prompted to research this after having a rough night due to toxic frozen tuna chunks. Product of Thailand. I'm glad I only ate a little bit. My sulfite reactions are subtlety different than MSG reaction, but still very similar. The sulfites make me feel "fuzzy", or like I'm about to fall off the edge of the Earth. It's very hard to describe.

I don't know what the tricarboxylic acid cycle is, but everything else sure makes sense. Knowing *why* goes a long way for making me feel better - as in knowing what to expect. I remember when I first got off MSG and would slip up and make a mistake, it was very, very frightening that I really hadn't found the cause/cure, and frustrating as well. Now the same reaction (I think, it's been a while since I've had a "doozy") is far less scary. More like an inconvenient, painful experience than fear of some unknown, horrible disease.

Jennifer
Carol H
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 5:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is just a hunch right now, but what if we are more sensitive to mercury and heavy metals found in fish - because of our troubles with glutamate and cysteine - which is used to make glutathione? That would make us more susceptible to mercury poisoning. With the amount of heavy metals and toxic compounds in fish lately, I wonder if it would be a good idea to stay away from fish for a while. I have been avoiding it since I got my mercury fillings out since I want to really chelate it and get rid of what I have been exposed to all these years. I do feel better in general and my allergy reactions have decreased somewhat.
Courtney
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 6:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Last Friday was a coworker's birthday and I was invited out to lunch. Of course I went because it was a birthday. When they said we were going to the Mongolian grill I was convinced they were trying to kill me but realized (it was pointed out to me) that I actually have a little more control because I'm putting my food together. Only problem was I didn't know what was sprayed *on* the food or what it was soaked *in*. For anyone unfamiliar - it's basically a raw food buffet. You load up your bowls and they cook it up for you while you watch. I haven't eaten in a restaurant since December so I was very nervous. I chose my food based on the least likely to need preserving. I had some beef (very little) no noodles, a few bean sprouts, some spinach, celery, carrots, green pepper, and cabbage. For the sauces I had ginger, garlic and sesame oil. Avoided things like lime juice and the like.

I had a very, very mild intestinal reaction at first - VERY mild. I figured as long as I was having a reaction of any kind I'd have ice cream, too. :-) I didn't have any further reaction at all stomach-wise and that place used to make me sick as a freakin' dog. Considering the intestinal reaction was so mild, I feel like I chose pretty well.

But the weird thing was that about an hour after we got back (about the time the intestinal reaction was completely gone), my eyes and throat started burning. I was having a histamine reaction like I'd just run through a field of scotch broom or something. It didn't last long but it was definitely noticeable. I figured it had to be sulfites.

I had to wonder if it was a new reaction or if I used to feel that way all the time and just didn't notice because I was used to it. But it was definitely a reaction.
Zoomer
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Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 10:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Courney, I didn't know that there is a histamine reaction involved from MSG and/or suflite. If so, maybe you should try MSM. It has had a dramatic effect on my pollen allergies. Buy it as a pure powder in serious health-food stores. I have been taking 2-8 grams/day for almost a year and I don't need to take my Clarityn any longer. (After removing mercury fillings, try to detox over almost a year to get rid of the deposits in the body. Sweating is a good way to get rid of toxins, try sauna. Sweat, and shower to prevent it from being reabsorbed through the skin.)
Deb A.
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Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 1:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Such an interesting discussion going on here! I sure love reading these posts. Carol, one of my son's chiro patients has had what I'm sure are MSG reactions for years. She says they are allergies and that she has learned to eat to stay alive...she eats fruits and vegetables, mainly. I have suggested the MSG angle, but she keeps insisting it's food allergies. Since she has had good days and bad days, she decided to see her doctor. He's an MD who has gone a more natural route...more into checking your blood and then suggesting cleanses, toxin/heavy metal removal, etc. Anyway, a few weeks ago, she came in all excited and said that she had tested very high in heavy metals (I believe most Americans would), and she was going to be taking a glutathione drip. I didn't know much about glutathione at the time, so I wished her well. They started her on a small amount and have built the amount up each succeeding week. She comes in for an adjustment, because she says she feels so lousy the day of the drip. She looks terrible, too. But after a couple days she says she feels great. I would too if I had two days of sharp head pain, she calls it, pain in her joints and jaw and neck....she has brain fog for hours afterwards. It made me wonder if this was an MSG reaction. She explained that the glutathione was bonding with the heavy metals in her joints, brain, teeth, and neck, wherever the pain was. I did a search and was surprised to learn that glutathione is comprised of glutamate and cysteine. Wouldn't this break down into glutamate and cysteine in the body? I am worried about her health....she is also taking B12 (the better methyl form). She says the treatments are giving her more energy, but I am wondering if it's just the B12 she takes 3 times a day...a vitamin most of us lack. Any ideas? I liked your suggestions, Zoomer. We tell people to work up a sweat to eliminate some toxins in our book. A good hot soak in epsom salts is nice, too...add a little lavender and rosemary oil..showering after the soak is a great suggestion, Zoomer..it's good to pamper yourself when you react! MSG is a vasoconstrictor and it causes a histamine, an insulin, and adrenaline response, too. Nasty stuff!
Deb A.
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Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 7:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Question! I was looking through some old posts, and found the following one that I wrote. Glutathione is the subject and I just discussing it in the last posting above this one. Now I am confused. It has been reported to help children with autism...maybe Mike's patient is having some success with it...maybe it does chelate the heavy metals out of the body. Anyone here have any input? I'm very curious now. One another note, in response to what Carol said about sulfites, I remember that when I was young, I had no trouble with sulfites...ate treated fruits and drinks all the time...didn't even react to sulfa drugs. All that changed as I became sicker with MSG toxicity. Wish we could get some more scientists involved with this! Here's the old post on glutathione:
"Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 9:37 am:
On Good Morning America today, I saw a segment on autism. An autistic boy had been given glutathione by injections, and he has improved, as had 2 other children given the antioxidant. His young sister was raising money needed to do more studies on the connection, and a philanthropist just donated $100,000 to help. The study is now scheduled to begin soon. I've read a little about glutathione this morning on the internet. It is produced by glutamate and cysteine and interferes with cell damage...we need to understand the connection." Would this help us or hurt us, I wonder....?
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 209.204.178.27
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 11:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was tested for glutathione during the height of my illness, and it was low. I was told by the Dr. (more of a natural type) that the oral supplements won't work so don't waste my money. It gets metabolized by the digestive system.
But from what I remember, low energy is associated with low glutathione. I want it say it's an antioxidant, or somehow involved in producing ATP or otherwise helping the mitocrondia....And Blaylock basically says excitotoxins do damage by causing free radicals and depleting the cell's energy. If glutathione helps autistics, perhaps it's giving a "mitocondrial disorder" a helping hand.
Jennifer
Deb A.
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Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 1:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, I would love you hear your input on glutathione as a treatment for removing heavy metals, and it's relationship to helping autistic people. We need your scientific background!
Brandy
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Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 6:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi guys.. I am reading in my book "Eat right 4 your type" and I came across L-glutathoine. Says that it support liver detoxification. I remembered that there was a discussion going on here about L-glutathoine. I went to the site:
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T147463.html

"Common toxins that glutathione may help protect against are car exhaust, cigarette smoke, heavy metals, aspirin and alcohol, as well as many pesticides and industrial chemicals.

The sulfur molecule is able to stimulate the secretion of bile in the liver. This effect, along with its antioxidant ability, makes it useful in liver detoxification products."
Brandy
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Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 7:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So since all of these autistic children are suffering from toxic brain/body syndrome, the l-glutathione assists in eliminating these toxins.
Carol H
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Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 3:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb!

Here is the deal with glutathione:

When you are dealing with chelation, it should be done very carefully. Often the metals have been buried deep in tissues for years and when you are trying to get rid of it, it can probably make you feel pretty badly until it is eliminated from the body. That is the whole medical concept behind enemas - getting rid of toxic material as quickly as possible.

I have not been supplementing with glutathione. I am simply taking a simple liquid multi-vitamin and juicing occasionally (I have been pretty busy), but one of the foods I throw into the juicer with my carrots and apples is a bunch of cilantro. Cilantro is a natural chelation agent. In Gerson therapy, often they talk about glutathione and how one must be careful when detoxing. The body starts to release long built up toxins and the liver can get overwhelmed when a detox program in started. It is necessary to make sure the liver isn't overwhelmed when getting rid of things like chemo drugs and heavy metals.

Glutathione is something that the body should be able to make if everything is normal. In the case of those of us with MSG sensitivity, there are a few reasons we may have trouble.

I think, in the case of those with autism, and us (since I suspect we may share some of the same genes) the heavy metal toxicity is a side effect of possible errors of sulfur metabolism that give us trouble making taurine and glutathione. We just have trouble getting rid of this stuff the way others easily do.

MSG - which raises glutamate levels too high, causes the body to have trouble with cysteine, because glutamate competes with cysteine for uptake. If the body has trouble handling cysteine - it WILL have trouble making taurine. So it may be an error of metabolism or simply an excess of glutamate that may give us trouble making taurine and glutathione.

As always I think it is best to view a deficiency of something as a clue that things are not right. The answer shouldn't always be to supplement. It should be to find out what caused the imbalance in the first place. Supplementation should be the last resort. Chances are there may be other things in the same pathways that are not being made either.

Instead of chelation which should only be used in cases of poisoning and under a doctor's care, I would remove sources of mercury in the diet - like fish - (believe me - I miss my sashimi!) and juice regularly like Jerry does and throw some cilantro in there. It didn;t get into our bodies in one shot and it may not be a good idea to overload your liver by trying to get rid of it in one shot either.

If you feel you need glutathione, try it, but I would try improving the ability to make it naturally first and use foods that naturally help chelate and also help speed up transit time in the digestive system. Pulling mercury out of hiding is only the first trick, sending it completely out of the body is the second.
Dianne
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Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 12:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol,

Are carrots, apples and cilantro the only things important to juice? Wouldn't it be better to eat the raw fruit, veggie and herb to "help speed up transit time in the digestive system"?
Deb A.
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Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 10:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Carol! I was sure hoping you would add to this discussion. We appreciate your insights so much. Thanks for the update on the film and your busy life. We have missed you here. :-)
I am definitely going to get some cilantro...I love the stuff...now have more reason to use it. Anyone here had any problems with eggs or Trader Joe's organic ketchup? I have had inquiries about both.
Rose
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Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 10:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been using organic eggs, so no problems. We don't have Trader Joe's here yet, but I've heard it may be coming.

I did start having a reaction yesterday to some organic carrots. It was more of a feeling like the sides of my mouth were reacting, not swelling, but the texture changed? Anyone had anything like that? Then just general anxiety. I finally broke down and took an antihistamine and went to sleep. Woke up okay this morning. The anxiety makes me crazier than the reaction sometimes.
Becky
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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About glutathione: I don't know if it's good or bad, but here's my small experience with it.

I was seeing a naturopathic doctor because I was getting sick frequently - a cold/ cough like once a month. She gave me some IV therapy with glutathione (and some other vitamins) in the IV. I was not sick before she gave me the therapy, but as soon as I went back to work afterwards I had to start clearing my throat and developed the same cough and hoarseness that I had been battling. Of course the ND thought it was a "healing reaction". And maybe it was, but I was really kind of mad about that. If it was really that good, I should have been getting better, not worse!

I love cilantro too. :-)
No problems with eggs, but I do seem to have problems with tomato products. I didn't think I did before, but now I'm pretty sure that I do. So I'm avoiding Trader Joe's Marinara sauce and ketchup - not because they have iffy ingredients, but just because of the cooked tomatoes themselves...
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 4:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been iffy about TJ's marinara and ketchup, too, Becky. I'm planning to make some of my instant ketchup soon. The recipe is in the book, and it's very easy. I use a tomato puree that doesn't have citric acid, and is just highly strained and pureed tomatoes. I have even pureed fresh tomatoes and let them drain through a thin cotton towel lining a stainer, to make it. The canned stuff is a lot faster. If you don't have the recipe, let me know...it's in the book. It's uncooked...just seasoned puree with sweetener and vinegar...the spices are ones most of us have on hand...cinnamon, cloves, celery seed, onion and garlic powder, etc. Just stir in and freeze in containers.
Becky
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Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 8:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb!

I don't really eat ketchup that much. On burgers and that's about it. But homemade sounds yummy!

But I love marinara sauce and salsa! I do think that it might be a problem with the Trader Joe's Brand and not just the tomatoes because I seem to do fine with Whole Foods brand salsa and I had some pizza from my local pizza joint last night and no reactions yet. I will watch for one for the next day or two. If TJ's brand is a problem, it's too bad, because the ingredients seem safe enough. :-(
Carol H
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Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 5:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dianne, sorry about the delay in answering - just saw the post today. Eating vegetables is good as well, it is just that when someone is really sick and their digestion is affected, sometimes juicing is beneficial to get the nutrients into your system as easily as possible.

I feel so much better when I juice carrots - but I do prefer to eat my apples whole. The Gerson therapy uses a green juice as well with many types of leafy greens.
Dianne
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Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 4:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, No problem. Do you always use raw food for juicing? What is the Gerson therapy?
Carol H
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Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 7:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dianne, the Gerson therapy is eating fresh foods - vegetables - and the juices are two kinds - carrot and apple, and a mix of green veggies. The key is toxicity and deficiency. Avoid pesticides and toxins by eating organic, avoid MSG and aspartame, and avoid mercury by removing mercury fillings. Eat a well balanced, fresh vegetable diet - you can cook some soups - but the idea is to avoid processed foods - stick to whole foods. The regimen is strict - but it really works on many chronic diseases. I have links to info on it at http://www.msgtruth.org under recommended books and links.
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 24.5.150.65
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 3:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/gs/99410.html
This is way over my head - even just the links to actual articles. But, there seems to be a link between Cysteine Sulfinic Acid Decarboxylase (CSAD) and GAD or Glutamate Decarboxtlase, taurine, and the immune system. Don't know if this can help anyone by adding a few more puzzle pieces.
I don't even know what CSAD does.

Jennifer
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 209.204.178.27
Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been researching the link between sulfites and GDH (glutamate dehydrogenase). Sulfites knock out GDH, refer to the first post in this thread. In Dr. Blaylock's book, he says GDH is necessary to convert glutamate into glutamine. Wikipedia says it's necessary to convert glutamate into something called alpha-ketoglutarate (sp?). This substance is a critical component of the Kreb's cycle.

I think that does a good job explaining why sulfites give me a MSG reaction, in addition to feeling like I have both the worst imaginable hangover and some horrible flu at the same time.

For one thing, excess glutamate is not being converted, so it increases the amount free in the body....facilitating excitotoxicity.

Then you knock out your body's ability to make ATP...no more energy. No energy to get out of bed, and no energy to counter the effects of excitotoxins damaging the brain. A double whammy. I can't help but wonder if the boxed wine I used to drink gave me brain damage (though now I've never felt sharper). I quit drinking that a few years before I found out about MSG, when on one box, I could actually smell the sulfur. Yikes!

So if you're going to do things that are bad for you, always use the *best* quality, whatever it may be. If it's food, the only way to guarantee quality is to make it yourself.

Jennifer
Carol H
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Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 4:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great link. I will try to incorporate that into the flow chart on msgtruth.
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 209.204.178.27
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 12:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol,

What would be totally awesome (and also a huge pain-in-the-butt project I would imagine) would be to have each icon on your flowchart act as a link to an article, reference, etc. to each condition. For example, I saw that glutamate is linked to nearsightedness. I hadn't heard about that one before, and would like some more info, since I had LASIK surgery for extreme nearsightedness in 2001. I just hope I can remember to wade through the Google links later. Remembering is the hard part. ;)

Jennifer
Carol H
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great idea. That is a definite thing to do next. It is all connected, but so hard to look at all at once. I need to do something different with the chart. I have had a lot of folks email me asking for hard copies. It is still a work in progress - which makes it hard to come up with a definitive hardcopy.... It may be best right now as a web of links.
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 74.67.178.150
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 5:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just curious- is it possible our msg and sulfite sensitivities are actually caused by heavy metal toxicity instead of the other way around?
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 24.5.150.65
Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 8:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For what it's worth, I discovered that tungsten competes with molybdenum and can cause sulfite toxicity. Though how you get tungsten poisoning is beyond me.

Jennifer
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 11:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We don't know for sure...that's why we need good scientific testing.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 3:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous,

Tungsten poisoning is said to be rare and confined mostly to soldiers and metal workers.

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40002231/
Dianne
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 3:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, good to have you back in our research department.
Carol H
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we have an answer to our chicken and egg question - about what comes first - metal toxicity or sulfite troubles. The latest autism research found one gene in particular that codes for the formation of glutathione from sulfur containing amino acids. And so - the genes make it tough to handle sulfur and the chelating agent that gets rid of heavy metals. So metal toxicity probably happens AFTER troubles making glutathione - which is a result of a possible GENETIC defect.

So the answer to Nature OR Nuture? is an emphatic YES!
The answer to metal toxicity or sulfite troubles is probably - sulfur amino acid troubles FIRST, Metal toxicity SECOND,
metal toxicity complications THIRD

That is just my humble opinion.
Becky
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 1:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This website says that black beans may help with sulfite sensitivity due to their molybdenum content.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=2#healthbenefits
Deb A.
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Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I will start eating more of them! Thanks, Becky.
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 67.121.144.254
Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 10:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/41/43035
This one's title says it all:
A Mechanism of Sulfite Neurotoxicity:...

http://jb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/1773
This article talks about oxygen levels and cytochrome c, and mitochrondia. I guess that means if Sulfite oxidase is normally found in the mitochondria, then any abnormalities with it could be called a mitochondrial disorder. Same with glutamate dehydogenase.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_dehydrogenase
Wikipedia shows two different forms, but only GLUD1 has a link.

I'm sure many poeple here are frustrated because there's no name for what we have. When you tell someone you can't eat "normal" food, they don't understand. If you could tell them you have a disease, and what the functions behind it do, then suddenly you're no longer crazy. You have a condition that with all the politically correctness going on these days, should make it easier to be respected - and hopefully institutions like hospitals and schools can provide adequate food.

My hypothesis (right along the same lines as Carol H) is that I have a dysfunction in sulfite metabolism, which in turn has caused excitotoxic effects in me, and presumably impaired glutamate dehydrogenase function.

Jennifer
Becky
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Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 9:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And.... I believe that Autism is sometimes called a mitochondrial disorder - or associated with it at least!
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 67.119.195.104
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 8:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2172.htm

Could this be a clue to a defect in cysteine metabolism? Here's the relevant excerpt:

"As sulfite oxidase deficiency and molybdenum cofactor deficiency have virtually identical phenotypes, the central nervous system toxicity appears to be secondary to loss of function of sulfite oxidase. Methionine and cysteine normally are metabolized to sulfite and then are oxidized to sulfate by the enzyme sulfite oxidase (see Image 2). When sulfite oxidase is deficient, alternate metabolic pathways for sulfite are augmented, including formation of metabolites s-sulfocysteine and thiosulfate. S-sulfocysteine probably substitutes for cysteine in connective tissues. This substitution appears to weaken the zonule of the lens (a tissue normally rich in cysteine) and results in the characteristic dislocated lenses. The pathogenesis of the brain damage in those with sulfite oxidase deficiency is not known but may be related to sulfite accumulation or lack of sulfate in the central nervous system."

Oh, I think I know what causes the brain damage. Sulfites knock out GDH, which equals not metabolizing glutamate, and impaired production of ATP.

Jennifer
Anonymous
 
Posted From: 67.121.114.240
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 8:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Those of you who have studied sulfites, may have come across conflicting information about sulfites vs. sulfa drugs. Until last week, all I had found was that sulfa drugs are totally unrelated to sulfites. Yet, there were a number of anecdotal reports of sulfa drugs being just as bad. Here's an excerpt from one web page I came across (though I don't know where it was cited from):


http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/Sulfides.html

"Things that can inhibit your protective Sulfite Oxidase enzyme
Things that can impair the protective sulfite oxidase are as follows: heavy metal molecules such as lead and mercury, Sulfa-drugs (e.g. a class of drugs within the sulfa group that can impair pterin synthesis, such as asthmatic inhalants and many antibiotics), molybdenum deficiency, proto-IX-porphyria (enzyme that makes blood inhibited), inherited genetic damage encoding of the SO-enzyme, severe B12-vitamin deficiency, and arrays of So2/SO3-group containing drugs including DMPS (an Rx chelation drug). "

Gee, sulfa drugs knock out SUOX (sulfite oxidase)

Jennifer
Jennifer
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Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/8/1371

I've been researching the sulfite link to MSG as of late. I had been wondering if it was a defect specific to Sulfite Oxidase, and had discounted molybdenum deficiency because I never responded to Mo supplements. The inherited SUOX deficiency is always fatal, and causes severe neurogical problems, usually by age 1. It's rare.

It's caused by Molybdenum cofactor problems, which also cause Xantheine Oxidase deficiency, and one other that I don't remember right now.

Well I finally got around to Xantheine, and it's a chemical component of caffeine, theobromine (chocolate), and a few other chemicals. That's actually significant to me, since the only time I've ever had "true" migraines (had the visual auras/flashing lights) is after ingesting caffeine, or chocolate. I had that figured out at the end of high school.

So....that doesn't prove if I have molybdenum problems, but it could be something to test for.

The link above is quite interesting in this context...if your Mo Cofactor is messed up, you don't produce GABA clusters like you're supposed to, apparently, along with other problems, like no sulfite oxidase.

Jennifer
Jennifer
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Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 10:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://jb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/2/345

This talks about how Sulfite Oxidase is manufactured...in the mitochondria. It's dependent on ATP. Seems like a potential negative feedback runaway. Too much SUOX = decreased GDH. Decreased GDH = interrupted ATP cycle. Decreased ATP = too much SUOX. Throw in inefficiency at metabolizing sulfur amino acids, and I think it's safe to say one becomes sulfite and glutamate sensitive.

But that's just my opinion.

Jennifer
Jennifer
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 1:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/zfg/doi/10.1055/s-2006-931757

Well, this is interesting. It hints at the fact that some people have antibodies to SUOX. Actually, they had antibodies to chicken, and recombinant SUOX.

Jennifer
Jennifer
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Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 4:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.funimky.com/downloads/SULFITE%20SENSITIVITY.pdf

Here's a flier I just found. It does have a list of foods to avoid that contain sulfites.

Jennifer
Dianne
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 9:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jennifer,

Good link to list of sulfite containing foods. Thanks.
Jennifer
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Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 4:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://journals.lww.com/jneuropath/Abstract/1975/03000/Cysteine_S_Sulfate__Brain_Damaging_Metabolite_in.5.aspx

Can anyone get the full study? This looks interesting...

Jennifer
Di
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Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 2:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wasn't this from 1975?
Evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 3:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everybody - Still looking for answers!
After reading all of this great info, and understanding some of it :-) I need help to know whether I should expect my body to begin making enough taurine to protect me from msg and mercury or if I should continue supplementing. I am sensitive to sulfites (and react to metals), which, if I am understanding correctly is the source of the problem? I started taking taurine and found that I felt better than I ever! I left my supplements (also taking magnesium, B6, B12 and organic liquid multi) at my remote work location, went without for 2 days, ate badly :-( being polite at a charity lunch and thinking I was doing well and could get away with it - but then had a severe msg reaction, intensified by sulfites. Additionally, reacted to metals, which I thought was related to hormones. (The necklace I was wearing that day (14Kgold) made black smudges on my skin.) So it was a perfect storm of reaction, all of which I assume to be related. So my question is: How do I figure out what the right thing to do for me is? I got some more taurine and was fully recovered after 1.5 days, whereas prior to taurine, it took me up to 4 weeks! I will continue to avoid msg and sulfites, but should I take taurine (and maybe milk thistle for glutathione) anyway to protect me from accidental exposure? Is there anyway to find someone who can help me know what to do? I had blood tests at my regular doc, but with 2Kmg of taurine a day on board, my glutamate level was normal. What I really want, is someone who knows what the heck they are doing and can give me the right tests to tell me the right things to do. I have not had any luck in finding anyone who has any idea. I was going to see the headache lady, suggested in Deb A.'s book - but she has left the Phoenix area. I was all happy with my taurine supplementation until I read the note from Carol H. suggesting that supplementation be a last resort. I am concerned about neurological damage and felt taurine was protection from that. Any suggestions, friends?
Di
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Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 5:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He Evelyn,

From all my research on supplements I have come to the conclusion that we are much better off eating the whole food that contains the element we are trying to obtain. Supplements are man made and there is no guarantee they are pure, or contain what they claim. I have read many Consumer Lab reports on the like and it is scary. I know it sounds good to just "pop a pill" so to speak, to feel we have all our bases covered, but you would probably be better off just loading up on a whole food containing what you feel you need.
Di
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Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 5:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I mean "Hi" not He
Evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha :-)
Thanks - I will do some research on foods that I can eat to get taurine then!
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 12:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Taurine occurs especially in seafood and meat."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 7:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Roy - I found this as well:
"Taurine is found in eggs, dairy products, fish and red meat. " Nothing more specific yet. But based on that info, I think it will be difficult for me to add more to my diet. I already eat a good variety of these foods, especially eggs! Considering I already do that, I may just need to supplement. I also read that Taurine is not actually (chemically) an amino acid and I would like to find out more about whether supplementing would actually impact my natural production of it. Reading the sulfite article, I am discouraged to think that I would need to cut out/cut down on a bunch of good healthy veggies that I love. That seems so counter-intuitive...
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 7:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction! I mixed up sulfur and sulfite containing foods from Jennifer's 4/6/09 post. Already have cut out most, if not all sulfite containing foods, in the process of cutting out msg.
Jennifer
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Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 8:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi,

For what it's worth - I still take 1000mg of taurine every day. If I go a few days, I get heart palpitations. I can tolerate a little bit of FGA, certainly more than when I first discovered my sensitivity.

As I recall taurine would be an amino acid but it has an alcohol group attached to it. It's still found in mostly animal products, and perhaps some people (like me?) have trouble making it.

I've wondered if taking taurine helps because it frees my body up to make glutathione, instead of trying to make enough of all the sulfur-containing substances with an obvious sulfur metabolism defect. I'm terribly sensitive to sulfites.

Just some random thoughts -

Jennifer
Di
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Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2010 - 4:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If anyone is in need of taking taurine. . .

Found this on an e-med site:

"Because the manufacturing of supplements (such as taurine) is not closely regulated, it is important to choose a trustworthy manufacturer for taurine supplements. Your pharmacist can help you choose an appropriate product.

If you have any chronic health problems or take any prescription medications, it is probably a good idea to check with your healthcare provider before taking taurine."
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, May 17, 2010 - 10:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jennifer, what brand of taurine do you take?
Jennifer
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Posted on Monday, May 17, 2010 - 8:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I get Jarrows formula 1000mg....made with rice powder. It comes in a gelatin cap, but I open it and take the powder directly. I then put pine-nuts in the gelcap for my bird. :-)

Jennifer
Evelyn
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Posted on Monday, May 17, 2010 - 9:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was taking Jarrows as well and do the same - open the capsule. I forgot my supply at work (I work out of town every other week) and got another vegan brand that is only 500mg and take two. I decided to try a powder over the weekend, to save money and Carlsons lab was the only one I could find nearby. It does not seem to work as well, though I am dosing carefully. Additionally, it is mixes easily with liquid, where as Jarrows does not - so I am suspicious of the formulation and plan to try the powder from beyondacenturyonline.com next, but not before I determine the source. I simply do not trust chinese products and want to insure I am getting an American made product. Nutrabio.com has American made taurine, price is a little higher.
Deb A.
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Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - 9:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Jennifer. Evelyn, I purchased the powder form from Beyond a Century and have done okay. But I would love to hear what you learn about its origin/source. It sure is scary out there now, especially with all we hear about Chinese products.
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - 8:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will call when I get home tomorrow and let you know. I plan to give the Carlson's another try as well, as I had another episode of of neck and arm stiffness that my regular brands did not take care of, so I am thinking I may still have just not built up enough in my system (I read that taurine concentrates in certain tissues) I am also still experiencing muscle twitches, though it has been over a week since my big exposure with no taurine on board. Before taurine muscle twitches took up to 4 weeks to subside, but since have usually only taken a few days - so I know I must have gotten a massive amount. I'm also going to try upping my dosage a bit until they subside. My sholder twitched so sharply at work in a meeting today, that I was embarrassed thinking someone might notice. I was taking 1000mg 2x per day, and am adding another dose for now. Country Life (the 500mg vegan brand I replace mine with - I like it best so far, but is the most expensive) indicates 'between meals' - has anyone noticed a difference in effectiveness? I take mine in the am before breakfast and in the pm before dinner, but not really "between" meals - more like right before.
Evelyn
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Posted on Friday, May 21, 2010 - 8:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Taurine Manufacturers -
Just got off the phone with Beyond a Century. As I suspected (due to low price) the country of origin is China. Also checked on the Carlsons, they manufacture and powder has no other ingredients. I have calls in to Country Life and Jarrows as well - but it sounded like the same message, so maybe same product under different names? So far Nutrabio and Carlsons are manufactured in the US. Price is higher, but is way worth it to me, considering the scary stuff that has shown up in products from China. I have never felt better, since I began taking Taurine. I'm hoping to even see it improve my vision. When I first got sick a year ago, my vision worsened overnight - previously, I had used readers as needed, but now cannot read anything in print without them. I have noticed my vision is now better on some days than others and an anxious to see if I might get some real and permanent improvement. Never would have known, if I had not found you guys! I appreciate so much, all the help I have found here. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! :-)
bo'nana
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Posted on Friday, May 21, 2010 - 11:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would anyone know whether taurine might be helpful for the tics & twitches of Tourettes?
...i would be very interested in learning whether this might be a possibility for my older son...
thanks!
Deb A.
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Posted on Friday, May 21, 2010 - 1:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bo'nana, I have to share this with you. I got a call about 5 years ago. The woman said she was calling to just thank me for helping her. She told her story of a very difficult childhood when she developed Tourettes. People shunned her everywhere as she got older and terrible uncontrollable words barked from her mouth. She got emotional when she told me that the conversation we were having would have been impossible the year before. She had decided to try avoiding MSG for headaches, but she also lost the Tourettes symptoms. I was close to tears with her. It certainly opened my eyes to the fact that MSG was damaging health and lives in more ways that I knew of.
Evelyn
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Posted on Friday, May 21, 2010 - 3:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not hard to believe, Deb! I came across information that indicated Taurine is specifically prescribed for Tourettes, as well as epilepsy, congestive heart failure, diabetic retinopathy, high blood pressure, bi-polar disorder, depression and a number of other things! That may make it sound like a panacea, but it is vital to so many functions of our body that a lack of it can wreak havoc. And the really good news: I cannot find any adverse effects or toxicity associated with Taurine. I did find one study that indicated that there is not enough info to indicate any unsafe level, so they determined an observable safe level of 500-3000mg. I read that 3-4,000mg is used for acute treatment of congestive heart failure. Taurine concentrates in muscle (heart), retina, pancreas and other tissues, so it appears that when it is completely depleted, per my own experience - that it takes time to build it back up.

Taurine is gobbled up by MSG, so eliminating it from your diet, as a first step does wonders for anything impacted by Taurine levels. Taurine effectively transports glutamate and regulates electrolytes at the cellular level.

Country Life called back - their Taurine comes from China as well, but they did indicate that every batch recieved is tested for purity, potency (1 in the same with Taruine), heavy metals, microbes and pesticides. On the other hand, you all may recall how China got caught putting melamine in baby formula because it would falsely test as protein and caused deaths :-(

Have not heard back from Jarrows yet on country of origin for their Taurine.
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 2:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have to say that I have been using Beyond A Century's brand of Taurine powder for many years, and have not had adverse reactions that I am aware of. I don't take it every day, but maybe I will. It was mentioned here that taurine also helps people with a sulfite allergy, which I do.
Evelyn
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Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beyond a Century gets their (Chinese) Taurine from an American company. So if you did have any concerns, you could call and see what their suppliers procedures are, with respect to quality control. Maybe you would be comfortable with their quality assurance.

What I gathered, from here and elsewhere, is that Taurine deficiency may be a root cause for MSG sensitivity and that people who have a sulfite sensitivity may have a genetic defect of (sulphur?) metabolism that causes them to be short on Taurine.

Some of the benefits I have seen: more sleep, no sulfite headaches, better mood, increased energy, fewer (have I had any today?) muscle twitches, no dry skin (excema went away with MSG), altitude does not kick my tail when I am up North every other week - I'm thinking that is just a function of more energy.

One odd thing though, I have noticed that I have been a lot thirstier lately! Not sure if that is related, but felt like it could be, since I was not eating salty foods.

I stopped feeling sick after dumping the MSG, I started feeling really well with the Taurine; better than I have in yrs. I may still back down my dosage over the next few weeks and see how I fare. I think that Taurine is enabling me to do a lot of other things that are making me feel better still, ie. sleep, exercise - I'm even losing weight! But that is a lot easier to do when you have the energy to exercise.
bo'nana
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Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 7:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

after reading all this great information, i think i may go ahead & try taurine with my son... who knows, maybe hubby will be interested this time too. i am pretty sure sulfites are an issue for him, and maybe also me and our tourettes boy. phosphates bother me! i have just identified that one, thanks to all the wonderful stories & information people have shared on this board. there is a certain type of 'gut ache' i get, never knew what it was from before... so that is a victory.

but i am so sick & tired of always feeling so sick & tired! i am only 42... but feel a lot older... and my head just doesnt work like it used to... a long time ago... and hubby cant remember anything half the time either, we both still have a lot of pain, fatigue & bad sleep

i know it takes awhile for the positives to kick in, but in some ways i swear i am feeling worse since changing our diet- moods have been all over the place! ever since the dumb strawberry incident... when was that, 2 weeks ago? and my son has been ticking even harder... all i can figure is that there must be some whole food item we are reacting to, maybe we are eating a lot more of something than we had been.

it feels like an adrenal response to me... i have had low/slow adrenals for the past several years, but before that i went through a period where i was all over the map- from hypomanic to exhausted sometimes several times a day. i am really surprised to be experiencing that again, and i know my family cant be enjoying a repeat performance of Mom's Crazy Mood Swings!

on the plus side, my hubby has been really mellow, so something good must be happening there. sure glad we are not both feeling so agitated!

anyway, my husband has seen a good orthomolecular dr. for several years, so i am pretty sure i can get a safe taurine from him... it even seems like he might have prescribed it once before... guess i just didnt pay close enough attention the last time around
Evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 4:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you really need a prescription, bo? It's widely available here (and online).
Did I read elsewhere that you are not in the US? Good luck with it, girlfriend - I wish you the best! Let us know how you fair.

Remember the thirsty thing? Well stopped feeling so thirsty and now feel "blocked" (Too Much Information!).
I feel so "full" that I can't eat, and this is unusual for me and I have not eaten anything I would expect to cause this, so... Taurine? Anyone else see this? Jennifer?

I continue to drink (water) to excess to see if the problem will clear. I am still feeling well enough though and am headed out the door to exercise.
bo'nana
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Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 5:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanx evelyn...no... he just has his own dispensary at the office, and we really trust his discernment as to source & ingredients. he is very knowledgeable about a lot of 'wierd mystery illnesses'... and ive been stung more than once at our local healthy store

heh. i have dreamed many times of not living in the u.s...
we are in the willamette valley tho, in oregon. you may be thinking of ali? she lives in the uk...

i can offer one tip on the blocked thang, as i periodically struggle with that meself... doubling up on magnesium sure does the trick for me!
but i am still new to all of this and have lots of 'bugs' to work out, so i defer to the wisdom of those who have been successful for a long time... evn tho mag works, could be there are things to watch out for...
and yes, you would definitely need to keep drinking lots of water if you do try it
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 5:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, bo - would like to know what he has to say about brands. Doubling up on the mag and continuing to drink. Picked up a 'natural laxative' (herb combo) took 1 last night and 2 this morning, as last nights had not worked. Also chowing on black and strawberries as too many of them make my kids poopy :-) Ah well! Of to work - have a wonderful day all ~
Evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 9:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Link to article that contains Taurine content of Foods:
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/Volume3/vol3.3/xi-he.htm
(thanks to Sallieanne)
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 1:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And now that I am able to post again - Was searching for info on magnesium and found lots of (10yr old) posts on CoQ10. Was wondering if folks would share their experience: Dosage? Impact on MSG reaction/sensitivity? Other benefits? Brands? Sources? Etc. Thank you ~
ali
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Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 12:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Id be interested to hear about that too Evelyn, as ive been looking into supplimenting with CoQ10 as i have read so many articles of late that were all positive and highlighting its positive effects throughout the body.
mariann
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 6:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think the coq10 that people here use is from Beyond a Century. It is a fairly large container of powder. Expensive at $50ish. but lasts a long time. Mariann
Evelyn
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Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 5:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Mariann :-) You are not using it yourself? I am finding it much easier to avoid MSG than sulfites! I get something, weekly and end up with a miserable migraine. I'm pretty sure it is that, as I do not get the muscular symptoms (cramps & twitching) that I get with MSG. I keep reading and re-reading the sulfite list in Deb's book, but as I said, I slip up weekly. This week it was the salad at Outback. (I'll likely not eat there again, unless it is an unseasoned steak and veggies - all other items are suspect)
kristy
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Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 12:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, I believe most restaurants are using prewashed salads which contain citric acid. Also, I think Outback actually coats their baked potatoes with some kind of soybean oil mixture which could cause a problem. The problem I find with most restaurants is that their meats are already contaminated when they arrive (cryovac package containing corn starch) or sprayed with citric acid to keep it fresh and also, they use a lot of vegetable oils (citric acid in them also) and spice mixes with dextrose or other corny substances in them. It is practically impossible to eat out anymore with all the spice mixes and sauce mixes and bottled ingredients that are used in restaurants as a matter of course. Rare are the restaurants that even make their own salad dressings anymore or wash their own lettuce. More and more of them are relying on frozen appetizers and entrees that they just reheat and cover with some sauce of questionable nature. It is really getting ridiculous.
Evelyn
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Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 3:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Outback claims to make their own salad dressings, but what does that mean? They take a seasoning mix and add oil? They won't tell you or let you read ingredients because "it's a secret". I will not eat any secret recipes - tell me what's in it or forgo my cash. I travel and it is difficult to find food on the road. Indian and Greek usually cause me no issues.

But I'm up (at 4am) with a huge headache again this morning. I brought food with me to an all day class and drank water lots of water (so should not be dehydrated) and ate nothing but what I brought. Maybe it's not what I ate, but could fresh cherries have sulfites in/on them too? No muscle symptoms, just a massive headache. Could be Aunt Flo's visit, but why does that cause headaches anyway... Head hurts going to lay down :-(
Mariann
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Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 6:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, no I don't use the coq10 yet, I had been researching it and I always need to get my courage up to try something new, especially if I need to invest $50 to try it. I think it has some really good qualities though and I know many here use it safely. So that is the source I would also use. Maybe I can get some friends or family to go in on it to give it a try. I was having the same problem that you mention with a headache every week or 10 days, even after eliminating whatever I could. I just stopped eating out when I was getting 3 or more a week. I worked my way down by just eating home cooked beans and rice and adding things back in. Little by little I got down to the one every week or week and a half. Finally I really took a look at myself and realized people here were telling me what I needed to know and I just thought "well that is them it certainly doesn't mean me" I was so wrong. I stopped using commercial soap and got goat's milk soap at the farmer's market. I switched to Ivory and then to plain original dawn det. for hand dishes. I figured that was safe because Deb A mentioned washing veggies and fruit with it. I don't use anti bacterial soap anymore in the shower or bathroom sink. I use very little shampoo and rinse it out so quickly and only use the shampoo every few days, just douse my head with plain clean water in the shower most of the time. I wash my prilosec and any ibuprofen I may have to take before popping them. No toothpaste only baking soda. I don't use any skin creams anymore, the goat's milk soap is so soothing it works great. I had someone tell me the other day that my skin looks great. It was like a miracle I had one headache in April, one in May and one in June. The one in June was after I cooked a 3 week supply of food for an elderly aunt that eats msg and it's cousins laden canned gravy on everything. She is still going strong at 85 althought she takes a million pills and I swear she is pickled with msg. I can't change her now, so I opened windows the sky light put on the stove fan and hope for the best. But those of you that think you may be affected with symptoms by smelling, I am here to tell you it is totaly happening. I think the headache in April was for the same reason. The potatoe at the restaurant may be suspect as well, if it is from Idaho, good chance of that. Cherries, I would not touch them with a ten foot pole, they are on the list of very problematic fruits along with strawberries and blueberries. Sad that they take such a benificial food and mess it up. I would also look at the water, I can use Poland springs or at least I used to, but now I don't take chances I use my own water with a Brita pitcher, so far I am ok with that, although I think Kristy said some filter was not good, not sure which one. I take my water in a stainless steel beverage container. I would say give up eating out, I have found that if Ineed to do that I take my food and just explain that I will become very sick in there restaurant if I don't do it that way. I am now really believing as well as saying It is the people I share a meal with not the food I eat that is important. You would be surprised at how many people will learn from you. Maybe even the waitress that serves you, as I have seen happen. Good luck and stay well. Mariann
kristy
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Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, I was going to mention the water, too. I use a Brita water pitcher and reusable water bottles (some glass, some stainless steel). We tried two other filtration systems and both contained corn derivatives. If you are drinking bottled water it could be causing problems for you. Especially avoid any with "minerals added for flavor". They actually have additives in them - not just contaminated from the bottle wash as most others are. I buy distilled water in gallon jugs if we are traveling, but bring water from home when we are doing errands in town.

I also agree about the cherries. I get an instant corn reaction (easy for me to pinpoint corn derivatives than msg reaction and most msg is made from corn) and I have cut out all but local fruit in season. I don't know what is being done to grocery store fruit, but it is bad and it has to do with corn derivatives. I am wondering if there is a new corny fertilizer or antifungal spray that is popular with large scale fruit growers or if there is a routine spray for shipped fruit that is worse than it used to be. I don't know what it is, but the blueberries from a local farm worked just fine for us and the ones at the grocery kill us.
DebA.
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Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 8:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mariann, some people here say that they have reacted to Dawn..makes their nails and skin dry. I am still experimenting, trying several brands...some, I'm afraid use soybean oil exclusively. Has anyone else found a great dish detergent? Dawn definitely cuts the grease the best. As for strawberries, I was reacting to some I bought recently...from Watsonville,CA, I found out later. We just got back from La Connor, WA, where my sister bought some organic strawberries. They were small, juicy and very sweet...like the ones we only had as kids. What a treat...these huge, hard, bland strawberries in stores are not normal.
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for all the great info - I do love cherries and will test them for headache, though I hate to because it was a nasty one. Water, check! Will change that. Unfortunately, because I travel for 3-4 days at a time and have very limited facilities for food prep - usually a micro, at least. I find it time consuming and difficult to fix meals, especially since they expect super extra ordinaray hours from me when I am on site becauase I must not be doing enough when they can't see me :-) So I have found a few things I can eat safely out - amazingly little in the hospital cafeteria though...
And while we are on the subject of eating away from home, we are planning a camping trip next month and I was wondering if anyone knows of msg/sulfite free backpacking food? I'm thinking I will get by on PB & honey most meals, especially when supplemented with fresh caught fish and that will suffice since it is not an extended trip. Not sure I can find all natural peanut butter in packagking that will backpack well, so - anyone have any hints? Thank you ~
Evelyn
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 8:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PS. decided to cut out the CoQ10 as I was feeling better before I started it. Probably brand is the issue, so I will look for something different/better that I can afford. I haven't been able to find (not that I have done much looking) a powder produced in the US. I did read that there is only one US producer, a company in TX. More to come!
kristy
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Palmolive original is corn-free, but I still wear gloves when washing dishes. I don't buy any fruit or veggies that need to be scrubbed - it never helped me avoid a reaction anyway. Now I know which veggies are safe at the grocery and buy everything I can at the farmers market or wholesale produce stand (you have to ask which veggies are local because they will have some things that are not).

I was reading a message board and they were talking about travel foods, camping foods and emergency preparedness and there were some very interesting solutions. I'll see if I can find that info and post it.
Di
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 1:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kristy, I see most of your posts are about corn avoidance. So I'm wondering is a corn sensitivity synonomous with free-glutamate sensitivity?
Evelyn
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 5:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Kristy - would appreciate any help I can get on that. Since my reaction is neuro-muscular, not being able to walk or paddle some days in to a wilderness trip could prove to be a real obstacle :-)
kristy
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Di, Almost every fga additive is made from corn so generally speaking: no corn = no fga

Evelyn, I do know that there is a peanut butter without any additives available from Naturally Preferred (Kroger brand), but I'm not sure about brand names. The only stuff I can find is about dehydrating. Many people are dehydrating soups and stews using the solid silicone tray liners. They are also dehydrating leftovers so they only have to add hot water and heat really well. A lot of the people on the Avoiding corn forum are making trail mix and using it as travel food. I'll post if I find more.
Di
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 9:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kristy, I know I can eat fresh sweet corn on the cob without a reaction? do you react to that too?
kristy
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The sweet corn on the cob that you eat is very different from the field corn they use to make food additives, but I can't eat it either. I quit eating corn on purpose over 15 years ago because I just couldn't tolerate it. I was shocked to find out that all those food additives I couldn't pronounce were made from corn.
Evelyn
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 7:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the info Kristy - this seems like a good idea and not too much trouble. I could get a dehydrator and prepare some things to take. Might even use it for my work travel - just because I get tired of eating the same old stuff!
Evelyn
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 4:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dehydrating my own food for our trip was a huge success! I'm getting a (used) food processer next, to make the process easier. I used a peeler to reduce fruits and veggies to peelings, so that they would dehydrate faster - that worked great. Meat does not rehydrate (much) since fat is what goes out, rather than water. Lean hamburg made good beef jerky. chicken was icky - threw most of it away. I felt great the whole time! Even took less taurine (I was afraid I did not bring enough, so cut down to 1000/mg 2X, rather than 3, daily) and was fine. Best wishes and Thanks again!
kristy
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 8:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, I am so glad to hear the dehydrating worked out! One of the ladies on the avoiding corn forum dehydrates everything, even one or two servings of dinner leftovers. She has those solid sheets and uses them to dehydrate pasta dishes or anything too wet to place on the racks directly. I wish I had a dehydrator so I wasn't so dependent on my freezer. Check out these videos about dehydrating (http://www.youtube.com/user/Dehydrate2store). I learned a lot from them even though she uses some questionable products in cooking and the lemon juice she uses is corntaminated. I am hoping to get my Mom's dehydrator since she never uses it.
evelyn
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 2:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I got a cheapy (Ronco) on Craigslist for $10 - lots of people have bought them over the years but few seem to use them. A new excalibur is <$200, not cheap, but I continue to look for a used one on craigslist. Dehydrated stuff does not spoil or take up much space. Did I mention that the kids like my food better most of the time? Fruit is awesome! Pour a little hot water on it to mix with hot cereal - puffed or left over brown rice.
kristy
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 6:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have two fig trees so I am really needing a dehydrator right now. Can you imagine how good dehydrated figs would taste?
evelyn
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yum - I'll send my shipping address :-)
kristy
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 9:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since I don't have a dehydrator, I had to cook them on the stove with organic sugar and organic lemon juice (I wanted slices of organic lemon but my store didn't have any decent ones) for about 15 minutes and put them in the freezer. I tried them on biscuits and they were divine. I never knew I loved figs so much since I've only had them as preserves which are OK but not nearly as good as the ones that were gently cooked.
evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 6:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds awesome! You can actually dehydrate food right in your oven. I'm not sure it is economical and I wouldn't recommend doing it in Phoenix in July - but! my sister tells me it works. I'm thinking there is likely an article or two on the internet to help with that. I was told to set the oven to 125 - which is about the same as the temperature outside anyhow, just no flies and bugs to infect it... :-) My oven's newfangled digital temp gauge won't set that low anyhow - it assumes you've made an error. Mom still hasn't seen your hints about the dehydrator?
evelyn
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 6:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooo and I forgot to mention - I picked up a food processor for $15 off craigslist today and my family has headed out of town, so I'm going to be busy with my $25 investment putting up fruit while it is <$1/pd. Need those strawberries to go on sale again tomorrow...
Check Craigslist Kristy - someone has got to be looking to get rid of a dehydrator!
kristy
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 9:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If I was in Phoenix I would have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Food-Pantry-Hanging-Dehydrator-Dryer/dp/B001T426TE/ref=pd_bxgy_misc_img_a
I'm afraid that wouldn't work very well in Mississippi, though. You're right about the oven not being economical....I try not to use it that much in the summer anyway - it heats up this duplex like mad. I am keeping my eye out for a dehydrator on craigslist, hopefully I will find one before too long.
bo'nana
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Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 5:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

more questions about taurine again... my son who has tourette's and i have both started taking taurine, and tentatively i would like to say it seems to help with the ticcing, and maybe? some of the moodiness? hopefully... but really, too soon to tell.

my son & i were debating the flavor of the taurine powder today... we seem to be perceiving it differently all the time. the first time i took it, an unbelievably SOUR taste about knocked me over... after the 2nd time, tho, it was mostly bland, maybe a little sweet. my son seems to mostly pick up a pleasantly sweet&sour flavor which he says works well in soda water (like a mock lemon-lime :-), or sometimes he tastes nothing at all.
i decided to google for other people's reactions & really didnt come up with much so maybe this is sort of odd. i did find one weightlifter who griped about a horrible sulfur aftertaste (altho i have no idea how much he might have been taking-!) and one research article that said most of the 'taste receptors' are perceived as slightly sweet, whatever that means...

so i am curious whether anyone else has noticed funny flavors?

but actually, what i would really like to find out is what anyone might have heard about how taurine affects platelets? ...becoz during my search i found quite a few 'scholarly articles' on the subject- unfortunately, predictably indecipherable.
i have chronically low platelets, so im feeling that this might be very good info to understand.... maybe this wouldnt be such a good idea for someone like me to be using...

anyone have any thoughts?
carolh
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Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2010 - 8:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use the pure powdered taurine - with no additives. It has a pleasant very faint taste that is hard to describe. In fact I can barely taste it.

I will hunt around for info on low platelets.
bo'nana
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Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanx carol!
funny thing about the taste tho, eh? very odd...
evelyn
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 10:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Repeating myself, but thought it might be helpful: I have found only two US manufacturers: Carlsons lab and Nutribio.com
I take 1/4tsp (1000mg) 2 or 3 times a day and I find it mixes very well with Coconut water for some reason! Dissolves instantly. I have been known to dump it in my mouth and let it dissolve, but it does have a faintly sourish-chemical (like baking soda? only much much milder) taste. Had not come across anything re: platelets.
evelyn
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 1:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Bo - found this on good old pubmed; hope it is useful:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11918831

"Effect of taurine on platelets and the plasma coagulation system.

Abstract
It is not yet clear what exact mechanisms are at work in hibernating animals that prevent clot formation and maintain tissue perfusion under conditions of very slow blood flow and increased blood viscosity brought about by the low temperatures. It has been shown that the total amino acid pool increases more then two fold in hibernating animals with taurine accounting for about 50% of this increase [Storey et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1988; 85(21): 8350-4]. This work investigates the effect of taurine on platelets and the plasma coagulation system. Taurine was added at different concentrations in the range between 5 and 25 mM to donor plasma. Using STA/STA Compact coagulation analyzer the following tests were performed: prothrombin time (PT), activated partial thromboplastin time (APTT), and thrombin time (TT). At the highest concentration tested (25 mM) taurine prolonged TT by 9%. The prolongation was statistically significant but not clinically significant retaining TT within normal limits (16.7-20.7 s). PT and APTT remained unchanged by taurine. The effect of taurine on platelets was assessed by platelet aggregation by thrombin, extent of platelet shape change (ESC) induced by ADP, and thrombelastography. Taurine at 5 mM final concentration inhibited platelet aggregation by 10%. Increasing taurine concentration to 25 mM did not result in a further augmentation of the inhibitory effect. ESC was unaffected by taurine. Clot strength determined by thrombelastography also remained unchanged by taurine."
evelyn
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 2:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow! here is a new one - check this out!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20667936

"Two weeks taurine supplementation reverses endothelial dysfunction in young male type 1 diabetics

Abstract
Type 1 diabetics have a well-recognised risk of accelerated cardiovascular disease. Even in the absence of clinical signs there are detectable abnormalities of conduit vessel function. Our group has previously reported reversal of endothelial dysfunction in diabetics with pravastatin. In young asymptomatic smokers, taurine supplementation has a beneficial impact on macrovascular function, assessed by FMD, and shows an up-regulation of nitric oxide from monocyte-endothelial cell interactions. We hypothesise that taurine supplementation reverses early endothelial abnormalities in young male type 1 diabetics, as assessed by applanation tonometry, brachial artery ultrasound and laser Doppler fluximetry. Asymptomatic, male diabetics (n=9) were scanned prior to treatment and then randomised in a double-blind cross-over fashion to receive either 2 weeks placebo or taurine. Control patients (n=10) underwent a baseline scan. Assessed diabetics had detectable, statistically significant abnormalities when compared with controls, in both arterial stiffness (augmentation index) and brachial artery reactivity (FMD). Both of these parameters were returned to control levels with 2 weeks taurine supplementation. In conclusion, 2 weeks taurine supplementation reverses early, detectable conduit vessel abnormalities in young male diabetics. This may have important implications in the long-term treatment of diabetic patients and their subsequent progression towards atherosclerotic disease."
bo'nana
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 8:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanx evelyn, i had read that first one, and also a few other similar reports... or i should say *tried* to read.
medicalese, like legalese, is such a foreign language to me. i confess, i am really struggling to understand what they are saying there... but it seems to indicate to me that taurine is effective at preventing blood from becoming too sticky.

unfortunately, my problem is the opposite. i dont have enough of the sticky stuff to even worry about getting too sticky. i am not hemophiliac- in that condition, a person's blood wont clot at all. so far mine clots just fine, but since a chronically low platelet count causes other problems i was wondering whether it is even a good idea for someone like me to be taking a substance that seems like it could "thin the blood" even farther?
i really dont need to add any new problems into the mix, ha!
evelyn
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 4:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Right - Here is the jist of it, I think: "Taurine at 5 mM final concentration inhibited platelet aggregation by 10%"
Unfortunate, since there are so many other positive effects. Here is a great page I found with more Taurine info:
http://www.mgwater.com/taurine.shtml
Mentions how it taurine keeps the blood of hibernating animals from clotting.
What I found most interesting and will need to find corroboration from other sources on is assertion that the body prefers to get Taurine from outside sources rather than make it. My husband has been concerned that supplementing will cause my body to produce less and this is the first statment I have seen on the subject. Does anyone else have any info they have found regarding this?

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