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B-12

Battling the MSG Myth » Sharing Scientific Information » B-12 « Previous Next »

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MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 7:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jerry, Anon, Carol and anyone else who is interested – I am posting info re my B-12 experience here because I had read that it may counteract glutamate toxicity and low B-12 has a tremendous effect on other conditions (e.g., h. pylori, ALS, osteoporosis, digestion, sleep, alzheimer’s and conditions for the elderly in general). For me, the B-12 injections had a profound effect on improving my digestion despite the reactions I am having to it. My B-12 blood levels were very low (although within the norm) with abnormal results in methymalonic acid and homocysteine --- these have been corrected since. Anon: I have never taken the Shillings test --- but I read somewhere that Shillings results may be negative if you are lacking the intrinsic factor as I probably am due to radiation more than 15 years ago. If you don’t have the intrinsic factor, you may need injections. I don’t know yet if I am absorbing the B-12 sublingual that I buy at Trader Joes (which is fairly cheap with little additives). There is a lot on the internet and so much more to learn. There are many forms of B-12 that I have yet to learn about. There is: Adenosylcobalamin, Cobalamin, Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, Hydroxycyanocobalamin, Methylcobalamin. Jerry: Thanks for your input on cyancobalamin. Glad you learned about this. I found an good reference entitled, Vitamin B12: All Cobalamins are not Equal at http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257 --- you can also find more B-12 references from the vegan web site: http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=23 Anon - I was getting injections of Cyanocobalamin made by American Regent, Inc., Shirley, NY. http://www.americanregent.com/contact.asp -- Each mL contains: cyanocobalamin 100 mcg, Benzyl Alcohol 1.5%, Sodium Chloride 0.9%, Water for injection Ph adjusted with Hydrochloric Acid and/or Sodium Hydroxide. Contains no more than 625 mcg/L of aluminum. Although quite rare, serious allergic reactions to injections of vitamin B12 (sometimes even life-threatening) have been reported. Whether these reactions are to the vitamin itself, or to preservatives or other substances in the injectable vitamin B12 solution, remains somewhat unclear. There are many forms of B-12 that I have yet to learn about. There is: Adenosylcobalamin, Cobalamin, Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, Hydroxycyanocobalamin, Methylcobalamin
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 4:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Although these sites are for vegans, anyone who wants to know more about B-12 may find them useful: For master list on B-12 topics, see http://www.veganhealth.org/b12
For info on blood testing, see: http://www.veganhealth.org/b12 re testing
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 4:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From yesterday's Sun Herald (South Mississippi) re B-12: http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/living/health/12828744.htm
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 9:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks MEMorris, It is interesting since so many elderly people take mylanta and other stomach acid reducers. I wonder how many people suffering from elderly neurodegenerative diseases take an antacid? By the way, people with stomach ulcers are a different category. Two of the Nobel Prize winners recently discovered that stomach ulcers are caused by a bacterium - H Pylori. So it's only a two week trial of medication for those folks who are then cured of a stomach ulcer. The rest take antacids probably from reflux troubles - which can be helped by other means than antacids - like when you eat, what you eat and how loose your clothes are. I suffered from an ulcer - which was cured but still occasionally suffer from reflux - but only if I can't resist a cup of caffeinated caffee or tea or a bar of dark chocolate - or a glass of fruit juice. Or if I eat too late at night. Antacid use can be avoided by most of us. And, based on the fact that acid is what helps produce B12, it looks like we have been brainwashed into thinking that stomach acid is always a bad thing. It is only a bad thing when it is outside of its element - the stomach. As for why a stomach ulcer results in more acid - The little bacterium that causes stomach ulcers is not happy in the acidic medium of the stomach so it burrows into the stomach wall so it's cozy, then it produces ammonia - (which is changed into glutamate once it passes the blood-brain barrier easily - I wonder how many MSG sensitive folks like me also have had a bad H. Pylori infection?) The ammonia neutralizes stomach acid. The bacteria causing the ulcer doesn't produce acid - the acid is your stomach trying desperately to replace the acid the bacterium has just neutralized. Getting rid of the bacterium, gets rid of the little ammonia factory in your tummy and the stomach acid should go back to normal. But, reflux is another thing altogether. That happens when the muscle holding the stomach contents where they belong gets loosened and stuff just doesn't stay put. Histamine which is increased by MSG loosens that muscle - so does caffeine, and certain fruits - like oranges and tomatoes. Apple juice for some reason doesn't have the same effect. Either way - we should take note of this and avoid antacids if possible by noticing what causes reflux and like that old joke just "Don't do that." and if we have an ulcer to get tested for H. Pylori and cured.

Another thing about reflux. When we take antacids and increase the possibility of a food allergy due to undigested proteins, we are increasing the liklehood that a future histamine response will take place causing more reflux and more antacid use. We are basically creating a "vicious cycle" when we overuse antacids. Most antacids interfere with meds anyway, so we really should try to curtail their use unless absolutely necessary.
jolts
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 10:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh do I remember the days of reflux ruining my life. I had the problem very badly. But not anymore. I haven't had any reflux problems for well over a year now. My liver flushing took care of that. This gets to the root cause.

Thanks...Pat Sr
Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 3:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorrisNJ - Thanks a lot for the good info! I took an antacid for reflux for a number of years. I don't have that problem anymore - since stopping ingesting MSG! My blood test are Monday - more info after...
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 6:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol - And thank you. I did not realize that low stomach acid was one of the many reasons for lowered B-12 levels -- So much to learn.

And someone emailed me to ask about the relationship between B-12 and B-6. I found this at http://www.thehair.com/vitamins/vitaminb12.htm
--- "Vitamin B12 works closely with folic acid and vitamin B6 in a number of body functions. A vitamin E deficiency may reduce the conversion of vitamin B12 to its active form. Vitamin B6 deficiency reduces vitamin B12 absorption."

Anon - Please try to read about blood test results. A "normal range" may not be sufficient --- the ranges are based on averages of the total population and this includes folks regardless of health status and age. My traditional docs didn't realize that my "normal range" of 300 was insufficent and didn't seem to understand the relationship of the B-12 results with results for methmalonic acid and homocysteine --- or at least didn't take the time to look at my results (Grrrr!). I went undiagnosed for several years and suffered for it although my blood tests show how I was spiralling downward.
Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I, too, have to take B12 injections. I have a serious latex allergy, and I just discovered that
multi-use vials of B12 for injections contain
latex....The company American Regent is in the
process of changing the vials....thank-goodness.
Take Care.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 4:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anon - Very interesting --- thank you! (I just read that latex gloves used in surgery may contribute to the possibility of getting adhesions too.)
Now that my B-12 levels are back up there (with a much improved homocysteine level and Methmalonic Acid level), I use a B12/B6/Folic Acid supplement that I take sublingually --- very inexpensive --- buy it at Trader Joe's.
I recently started taking pancreatic enzymes (Pancrease MT10) to help with fat malabsorption --- I have since found out that the low B-12 levels may have been due to a malfunctioning pancrease. I take one pill before each meal and I can eat so much better -- but MSG and other food additives are still a problem (so far). exists. There is alot of info on the internet re the connection between B-12 and pancreatic enzymes. Here is one link leading to others:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term=B%2D12+%2B+%22pancreatic+enzymes%22&tool=QuerySuggestion
I am very excited about the pancreatic enzymes (just as I was with the B-12) --- I feel so much better --- hoping that it will improve my overall health now that my vitamin absorption should improve. The process in discovering the source of my problems is lack pulling back an onion. My next step is finding out why my pancreas isn't doing the job. Let us know how you do and thanks for the info.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 5:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thought this may be helpful to others:
"Gastric conditions contributing to B12 deficiency include various stomach diseases that impair release of B12 from food or production of intrinsic factor (such as gastrectomy, antacid medications or gastritis), pancreatic deficiency states which impair formation of the b12/intrinsic factor complex, ileal disease (e.g. Crohn's disease), bacterial overgrowth in the bowel, and other miscellaneous causes of malabsorption. Pernicious anemia accounts for 15-70% of B12 deficiency. This an autoimmune disorder where antibodies are made to intrinsic factor. Because B12 is stored in the liver, it takes about 2 years following a sudden cessation of intake for signs of deficiency to arise."
Source: http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/b12.html

PS Some medications can lower B-12 too.

PSPS You can suffer from problems even though your B-12 is in the normal range --- you can get negative symptoms being just low normal with high homocysteine & methymalonic acid --- I have found alot of doctors don't recognize this. B-12 effects B-6 levels and B-6 may effect ability to tolerate MSG.
If you have elderly family members, it is worth checking their B-12, methymalonic acid and homocysteine levels. I went throught this with my elderly father who appeared to have dementia --- he is improving with supplements but I went through alot to get his doctor to test him properly.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 12:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorris, What is so interesting about B12 is that it is critical for the nerve cell myelin sheath that is damaged in certain neurological diseases. The myelin sheath surrounds nerve cells and acts exactly like the insulation on an electrical wire. A nerve cell without myelin is like a electrical cord that shorts if the insulation gets damaged. Imagine a poor nerve cell uninsulated from lack of B12 and then subjected to overstimulation from free glutamic acid. That poor nerve cell is toast....
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 7:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ich can mich an dich uberhaupt nicht errinern.qqq
Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 12:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kansst du mir ein Speisekarte zeigen ?sj
suzngerry@aol.com
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My husband has gotten monthly B12 injections for a year. The lit. says this can lead to buildup of aluminum. I called the manufacturer who claimed there was absolutely no aluminum in the product. However, I see mental laspes that weren't there before. He reacts with a rash to deoderants, he worked in a foundry welding with aluminum. I can't convince his doctor. Anybody have information about this. Cytex is the company that distributes the product.
MEMorrisNJ
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.aor.ca/int/magazines/pdf/Holistic_Lifestyle_2001_May_Issue_6_Methylcobalamin.pdf
More re B-12 methycobalamine protection from glutamates and neurological problems. B-12 is suppose to help with memory problems – not cause them.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/10/1/56.pdf
Talks about B-12 given in oil with aluminum monostearate depot preparation

http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7254&sid=121f46830ad735e01b4d9d1d8034e877
Mom talks about her investigation of aluminum in B-12 produced by Cytex. May be worth posting your question again here.

http://www.pernicious-anaemia-society.org/pa-article.pdf
excellent overview re treatments and testing (there are no references to aluminum)

http://home.earthlink.net/~joannefstruve/_wsn/page3.html
Aluminum poisoning causes memory loss

http://www.aperfecthealing.org/Nutritional%20Healing%20Clearinghouse%20From%20A%20To%20Z.htm
There is speculation that a build up of aluminum from aluminum cooking ware and aluminum foils contribute to Alzheimer’s disease

What literature mentions build up of aluminum with B-12?

http://online.ceb.com/CalCases/CA3/59CA3d5.htm
This is just a sample lawsuit I found. There are others on-line.
I'd get another doctor. A workers compensation attorney may be able to refer you to a physician who specializes in aluminum toxicity. His employer may be liable --- there may be time limits.

If you find a connection between B-12 and aluminum build-up, please post here. I have to take B-12 because I cannot absorb it due to cancer treatments from radiation and my previously low normal B-12 may be one reason why I am sensitive to MSG. (I have more posted here re B-12 which you can find by doing a search.) Thanks!
anonymous
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 7:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a newbie on here, so this might be so simple as to be silly, but I do feel ok asking anything on this site.
How can you get B12 from food. I "thought" it was in red meat, and that's why it is "said" that vegetarians lack it? I'm a meat eater, but just wondered if it was possible to eat B12 rich foods, as my husband and I head into middle age, and considering his Dad had alzheimers. Or if you lack it, does that mean you can't absorb it, and that's why you need it straight into the blood stream?
Thank you. Linda
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

anonymous,

Clams and liver top the list for vitamin B12. See the link below.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used to dip chicken livers in seasoned flour and sauted them...then came all the scare about cholesterol. Now I rarely see them in the markets.
Carol H
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Asian markets have them. I know there is a big scare out there right now regarding Chinese imported foods, but Asian markets usually have a much better produce section and a more diverse meat section than the regular markets. But just like in American markets - steer clear of the processed garbage in the middle of the store.
Dianne
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 5:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/165964/organ_meats_what_you_should_know_before.html?page=2

"The liver is a metabolizing organ, meaning it is there to filter out the toxic substances that enter a body. Sometimes these toxins remain in the liver and so as a result when you do eat animal liver you may be ingesting some leftover residue of any drugs or hormones fed to the animal. The occasional meal probably won't be enough to hurt you, but if you ingest these toxins regularly they could become enough to prevent a health hazard."
Becky
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Linda,
In answer to your question, if you are eating meat fairly regulary, you "should" be getting enough vitamin B12, but it actually can be hard to absorb for some people. So even though they are eating it, their digestive system is not absorbing it. It is worse for older people. There's something in the stomach called Intrinsic Factor that helps you absorb B12. If you don't have it, you won't absorb it from your food. In that case, you would have to get B12 shots or take a supplement that has intrinsic factor in it with the B12. I'm not sure about the sublingual supplements. Maybe they would work too.
Hope that helps!

Becky

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