| Author | Message | ||
| linda
|
My husband and I went to an Indian Restaruant yesterday, we frequent the place about every other week, but had a very alarming occurance after our meal. Both of us had the same reaction, and we both were in seperate places thereafter while experiencing these conditions. It was buffet, and we did have a special order of bread brought to us, that had a very different flavor. Also, we both had coke to drink. Afterwards, we felt as if we were given a very heavy dose of sleep medicine, we could not focus, felt anxiuos, and confused. My hsuband and I were lethargic- this condition stared about 10 minutes afet the meal, and lasted until about 5 pm, lunch was at 12. We were so terrified, we will never got to the restaraunt again, and want to know what happened to us? MSG came to mind, is this a possiblity? Could MSG have been sprinkled on the bread? Please help if anyone can, Linda | ||
| Deb A. |
All the symptoms you listed are very typical of MSG reactions. Coke contains glutamate, as well, but your buffet was probably loaded with MSG in several forms. Was the bread salty? | ||
| linda
|
Yes, in fact it was salty, and especially tasty with a powdery substance on it. I just thought a garlic type salt. Thanks so much, we are just still so alarmed by the way we felt. | ||
| Deb A. |
Linda, I remember eating out with a friend (about 4 years ago) who assured me that they did not use MSG in their stir-frys. I remember even asking the waiter not to add MSG. I felt the same way that you did, and slept for a full day..felt comatose, I was so out of it. My friend reacted the same way. There was probably lots of MSG in one of the purchased sauces that they used. It is terrifying. Please keep learning how to avoid MSG. You might call the restaurant and ask for a list of ingredients in that bread, telling them that you reacted and need to know what caused it. You might ask them if they use MSG in some of their dishes. | ||
| linda
|
It is so strange how things happen sometimes,although I have had a very bad experience I am glad that i stumbled upon your site. I truely appreciate your time and information. I do know that things happen for a reason, and I think that there are some health issues I need to address - being alot more aware of what I put in my body. It is very interesting to me the info that I have seen on your site, it really answers alot of "why am I feeling like this" scenarios. Food is so much more than flavor,I know that this is a beginning of a new journey for me. I will read more, and I sincerely thank you. | ||
| Jerry Story
|
About Coke: Crap like that usually contains aspartame, just as bad as MSG, probably produces similar effects. | ||
| Laura Gould
|
I wrote to coke to see about glutamates. Here's the response I got...my initial letter is at the end. I have also written a second inquiery asking for a nutritional breakdown....if I get one I will send it along =) .......................................... From: Coca-Cola Support Date: Mon Jun 9, 2003 12:55:59 PM America/New_York To: lauragould@mac.com Subject: RE: Coca-Cola Web Form Reply-To: Coca-Cola Support Thank you for contacting The Coca-Cola Company. We appreciate your interest in our company and our brands. You may be interested to know that Coca-Cola classic does not contain glutamates or MSG. We hope this information is helpful, and we encourage you to contact us again should you have other questions. Best wishes! Stacey Industry and Consumer Affairs The Coca-Cola Company [THREAD ID:1-1LD9TT] -----Original Message----- From: lauragould@mac.com Sent: 6/4/2003 8:05:56 AM To: "Coca-Cola Support" Subject: Coca-Cola Web Form Are there any free glutamic acids in the final coke product. Or are ther any glutamates. My son loves coke but has recently become allergic to these amino acids. I look forward to your reply. thank you, Laura ................................ What do you think? xox Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Laura Gould
|
Stupid question....is powdered milk of any sort ok? I am thinking about using powedered goats milk to save a bit of money, fresh organic goats milk is a bit pricey. Graham needs the extra calories that milk offers..but...goats milk is suppose to be easier on the mucus membrains. So is powdered organic goats milk bad....does the process of powdering milk always cause free glutamic acids? Looking forward to advice.... thanks very much, Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Deb A. |
All milk contains glutamate...some animals' milk may contain more of it than others. Drying it and concentrating it just condenses it and breaks it down into a free, unbound form that is more easily assimilated into the bloodstream. Can you get it fresh and use it that way? As to the Coke, does it contain corn syrup? Natural Flavors? I wish I could believe all the spokespeople who have told me that MSG or glutamate was not present in their products in the past, but that has not been the case. You can list all the ingredients here, if you like, Laura. | ||
| Jerry Story
|
About Coke: http://www.dorway.com/ This cannot be emphasized enough! Stay the 773H off aspartame! The coca-cola company doesn't give a rat's ass .. I mean posterior about your health. | ||
| Deb A. |
Not to mention that the carbonation is bad for the bones...leaches calcium. | ||
| Roy Piwovar
|
The article linked below explains how soft drinks deplete calcium, but I know of no studies to support this. http://www.supplecity.com/articles/softdrinksunsafe.htm | ||
| Laura Gould
|
I read this on The Truth in Labeling site: Many consumers often equate all free glutamate products with MSG? Not so. Only the glutamate industry and friends, like Michelle Meadows equate all free glutamate products with MSG. Anyone else who has investigated the matter would know that any truly natural, unadulterated, unfermented, unprocessed free glutamate would be L-glutamic acid, only -- and that it would not cause adverse reactions in MSG-sensitive people; and that manufactured free glutamic acid, i.e., glutamic acid that has been freed from protein by a fermentation or other manufacturing process, will cause MSG-reactions in people who ingest amounts that exceed their individual tolerances for MSG. So does this mean that L-glutamic acid is ok? If it is in a supplement, then hasn't it been altered or seperated in some way? Does this mean that if it is in food in it's natural state it's ok....but in it's seperated form it is risky? I am confused ~=o[ A weight gain supplement that really helps Graham has L-glutamic acid in it. I stopped it when we realized the reaction Graham was having to free glutamic acids/MSG. Would this be safe for Graham to try again? Any ideas...or am I playing with fire? Thanks for all the continued support.....sorry if this is too confusing =o( xox Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Carol H |
I don't agree with Jack Samuels and the Truth-In-Labeling crowd here. Glutamic acid in excess can damage the body. I don't care if it is L-Glutamic or D-Glutamic or invisible glutamic acid. Glutamic acid - even the natural kind triggers nerve cells to fire. That's it's function when it is working, that is what it does when it is harming us. Too much is bad - period - regardless of the kind it is. That "natural" argument hurts our case. I don't find it useful or accurate. It may appeal to activist sensibilities, but it is not scientifically valid in my opinion. Arsenic is natural - cadmium is natural - hemlock is natural - I don't advise eating them though. Same with too much glutamic acid. The body should be able to make enough glutamic acid on its own. You don't need to eat free glutamic acid, regardless of where it comes from. | ||
| Carol H |
Sorry about the tone of my post, Laura. I'm just upset that they are still using an argument that fails in its purpose. And I'm upset that I either agree with the Truth-in-Labeling site or I'm in with the enemy. ("Glutamate industry or friends") | ||
| Laurie M |
I have never had any problem with naturally occuring L-glutamate. I emphasize natural. If it is in a supplement they have to do something to it to get it there. Fresh foods with high glutamate have never caused me problems but I also caught my sensitivity early at age 18 so I didn't have the overdoses some people have had. | ||
| Deb A. |
I am having a difficult time understanding what Jack is saying there. If we have leaky blood brain barriers or the systems or mechanisms in our brains that keep the excesses of glutamate at bay are compromised, then glutamate is the ememy and we are wise to avoid it in any form. In it's free form, sure, it will enter our blood stream at lightening speed... but our digestive system will eventually add the natural form, bound to protein in foods, to the blood stream, too. | ||
| Deb A. |
I think Jack gets angry with the fact that in the factory besides l-glutamic being freed up, there is also d-glutamic acid created, which is never found in nature. Also created are pyro-glutamic acid, known carcinogens, and contaminants. | ||
| Carol H |
My main argument with his theory is his emphatic statement that free "natural" glutamic acid is somehow safe as mother's milk. I just don't buy that. There are many errors of metabolism. The perfect human specimen does not exist. In PKU for example, even an excess of "natural" BOUND phenylalinine presents a dangerous situation for a child with this disease. Laurie, when you say "fresh" foods with high glutamate, Do you mean foods with bound, or free glutamate? Do you mean for example, fresh - not over-ripe tomatoes which have vitamin C present (undamaged by heat) which helps mitigate an MSG reaction?, or meat, which has MSG in bound form and plenty of taurine naturally present to also mitigate a reaction? Exactly which high glutamic acid foods do you mean? Anyone else can chime in - I want to know exactly which foods do or don't give MSG sensitive folks trouble. We have to discuss this in much more detail. Now, what about natural glutamic acid fed to Type I diabetics? Does the fact that in over 80% of the cases, their bodies have built up antibodies to GAD (glutamic acid decarboxylase) mean they will or won't have trouble with excess "natural" glutamic acid? Does GAD only work on "unnatural" glutamic acid, or "natural" glutamic acid, or both? Jack raises more questions in my mind than his certainty answers. | ||
| Laurie M |
Hi carol, I have never had a problem with any untreated produce whether over ripe or under ripe. The same goes for untreated meat. I eat mushrooms, tomatoes and red meat regularly. the only products I react to are foods altered by man. I can even cook my tomatoes for a medium amount of time with no trouble. However, my case is different than most. I grew up on a farm with fresh organic produce and raw organic milk. It wasn't until I was ten that we moved off the farm. I still ate pretty well but packaged foods were introduced at that time and I had a headaches every single day until I turned eighteen and a doc finally told me what the problem was. Ever since I eliminated all man made glutamate all my problems have disappeared. I never ate the high glutamate junk food that a lot of others have eaten. The question remains. Why did I develop a reaction when my intake was so low to begin with? Oh well. Life is great now. Oh and by the way After two years of fighting those stupid man made birth control pills I am finally pregnant with absolutely no msg in my diet and no supplements! The doc says i am in great health! | ||
| Laura Gould
|
I'm stearing clear of it all....it's not worth the risk. The glutamates L and D, free and glutamic..and coke........ I called Muir Glen...becuase I notice on their Whole Peeled Tomatoes (and other styles) there is citric acid. I called to see if it was from citrus of from corn....it is from CORN =( Graham has eaten Muir Glen for years and it doesn't seem to bother him...but again..now I'm not risking it. I did notice Pomi Tomato Sauce has absolutely nothing added......not one thing......maybe apart from fresh organic tomatoes that will be the product for us............ Our favorite "soda" is home made Orangina =) 1/3 organic orange juice 2/3 Pellegrino (sparkling bottled water of choice) tsp. of organic maple syrup or sweetener of choice Graham loves it =) We made homemade pizza last night .... I used Seeds of Change pasta sauce....ingredients seemed fine....Graham didn't have any chest tightness! =o) Ingredients: tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, evaported cane juice, herbs, extra virgin olive oil, sea salt, garlic, sices lemon juice concentrate.....all organic. xox Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Matt |
what cheese do you use for homemade pizza? | ||
| Laurie M |
Matt, I use danish Havarti. Nice and creamy and I have never reacted to it. It also lasts a nice long time in the fridge. They use different enzymes for cheese in europe and that side of the world. I can't eat american havarti but the danish stuff works great and it gets raves form every body who has my pizza! | ||
| Tom Fernstrom
|
Carol, Back when I was first weaning myself off MSG products, I would react to foods that were high in "Natural" glutamate. But since I have settled in with the regimen of supplements that include CoQ10, Vitamin B, Taurine and Magnesium Orotate, I have been able to reintroduce these foods. I especially enjoy the vine ripened tomatoes from my wife's garden now that I can eat them again. | ||
| Jackye |
Oh Tom...you have made my day. How long before you re-introduced vine ripened tomatoes? | ||
| Tom Fernstrom
|
Jackeye, It was about a year and a half, but remember we all were still in the investigative stage of identifying supplements that would help protect us from "accidental" ingestion of MSG through processed foods. The abstention of glutamate mandated at that time the inclusion of "natural" sources of glutamate because our bodies had been accosted for so many years. Im my case, once the supplement regimen was established with proper dosages and maintained for about six months, I was able to experiment reintroducing the "natural" sources being cautious not to allow over ripening or cooking. | ||
| Jerry Story
|
About restaurants: This cannot be emphasized strongly enough. DO NOT TRUST RESTAURANTS!!! Don't matter they say they don't put MSG in the food. They must be considered guilty until proved innocent. And I wouldn't bother granting them a trial. And anything they say in their defense is furthur prove of what liars they are. They are crookeder than a dog's hind leg and lower than a snake's belly. They have no more interest in your health than an alley cat has in a marriage license. The food they serve is probably not fit for a dog to eat. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me. | ||
| Jackye |
Tom, Thanks for the words of caution. I have been taking CoQ 10 for 3 weeks. Until yesterday, I had experienced no bad reactions. I know it is too early for the CoQ 10 to help...maybe I am just getting better at food selection. Yesterday I experienced bumps...medium in size.. on my tongue after enjoying organic pecans from a local farmer who does not put anything on them..I drizzled honey over the pecans... It is my hope that I have been eating honey too frequently (at least twice a day.) Does my rationale make sense? Ugh. | ||
| Laura Gould
|
I've been off for a week or so. Graham is sick... and on home iv's for a lung infection. On top of all of this, last night, he had a very bad reaction. He is talking in his sleep, restless, anxious, just shy of hallucinating again. My heart is breaking......eveything seems to be after him, food, medicine.....everything. He has been agitated for a few days (almost like what I expect kids with ADD must suffer) He has to have the iv's to prevent lung damage and to clear up this very virulant infection.....I feel like everything is going wrong! I'm at my whits end......... I gave him one gel capsule yesterday by mistake... could one gel cap reek such havoc? The cheese I use on the pizza (to answer a much earlier question) is organic motzerrela...milk, salt, enzymes......could it also be the cause of tigtness in breathing after pizza dinner. The sauce is just pure strained tomatoes, the oregano and basil are organic....the dough is homemade with no additives at all.........the garlic powder is organic powdered w/no additives I feel terrible today...things were going pretty well and then all **** broke loose...... xox Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Fran |
Laura Cheese and butter will cause me to get phlegmy and tight chested. All grains will cause me to get a 'bread head' with 'stinking thinking', I had some for the first time in ages last night and I woke up with a shock as my brain clicked full of electricity with bright lights. It was horrid. Have you thought about Lactose and gluten (or rather grain lectins) intolerance. Apart from celiac grains can also cause neurological problems. Fran | ||
| Jackye |
Laura, I'm much to new with the msg connection to advise you. However, I have added you and Graham to my prayer list. | ||
| Roy Piwovar
|
Laura, Maybe a diet high in fat and protein can help when there is trouble absorbing calories and fat soluble vitamins and processing sugars. Sometimes the air conditioner on its fan setting can help filter the air when not needed for cooling, which may helpful when the lungs can't clean themselves out as well. If adding an extra pillow while sleeping is inadequate, maybe sleeping sitting up will help. A comfortable recliner chair could be used to help with breathing and make sleep possible. It's worth a try. Here's another link with suggestions: http://www.akronchildrens.org/respiratory/cysticfibrosis.html | ||
| Deb S |
I just wanted to put in my two cents about being able to tolerate things, such as foods high in natural glutamate, that we once could not handle. After about 2 years of seemingly becoming more sensitive and then leveling out, I find that I can now eat more foods without any ill effects. Not every day but frequently. Restaurants (Red Lobster and others), meals at my sister's house, usually with no symptoms afterward, or very mild ones (digestive) that don't last long. Prepared frozen foods (organic/health food store bought) that once would have given me problems are okay now. This change happened over time, WITHOUT taking ANY supplements whatsoever, other than a multi-vitamin once in awhile when I think to take one. I don't eat many veggies or fruits, so I know I'm not getting enough natural vitamins or antioxidants and cannot point to a particularly well-balanced diet. So it is possible that our bodies can recover to some extent and supplements may not be necessary or even beneficial. But we are all different and YMMV.  The only thing I ate recently that caused problems was a pocket sandwich I prepared at home with ground beef, eggs, onion, green pepper, curry powder, cumin, organic whole yogurt, in whole wheat pocket bread. The first effect I noticed was my vision was greatly diminished, could barely see what was on my computer screen. Then that cleared up after 15-20 minutes and then the headache started, but was gone by morning. Research confirmed my hypothesis that it was because I am sensitive to salicylates--come to find out, green peppers, cumin, and curry powder in particular are very high in natural salicylates. A clue was that one time I tried using a wrinkle-reducing cream with alpha-hydroxy acid and SALICYLIC ACID and by the time I was done applying it to my face, I could no longer see my face in the mirror. I was about 90% blind from breathing it. (I had previously used the lotion right before bed and was unaware of this effect.) Luckily, I realized it had to be a neurological reaction to something I was sensitive to, tried not to panic and laid down for awhile and it cleared up in about 20 minutes. That lotion went into the trash, to say the least.  | ||
| Roy Piwovar
|
Deb S., There are a lot of things worse than wrinkles, such as in the story linked below about salicylates: http://www.feingold.org/pf_salicylates.html | ||
| Jackye |
Deb S., thanks for the encouraging words...keep them coming. Another newcomer... | ||
| Deb A. |
I have been reading the postings, trying to catch up with the last week we have been away....our yearly vacation to the Oregon coast with our kids and their families. It was windy, but fun. Got out the kites and found lots of great shells and beach glass, my favorite find. It's good to be back though, and boy it's hot in Kennewick, WA! What a difference! Laura, I've been concerned that maybe you are giving Graham a bit too much of his favorite things...the tomato/cheese foods that he loves...I did the same thing at first. We Americans are raised on a tomato/cheese, bread/pasta diet. Havarti is good, but it is still aged and a tad bit higher in glutamate than say, a milder cheese. And any cheese and any tomatoe product is going to be high in glutamate. You might try frying some onions in butter and tossing in some cooked pasta for a tasty quick meal. I also like to add some chopped cabbage and sliced almonds or sesame seeds. Spice it up with a pinch of cayenne, salt and pepper. Add some hamburger for a heartier meal. Substiute rice pasta for wheat pasta for a change. Mike and I have discovered the frozen shrimp at Costco...the tail on variety...no preservatives. We skewer it and baste it with melted butter/lemon juice/salt/pepper/cayenne and then grill it for 3 minutes on each side. It's so tasty. And yes, the gelatin in gelcaps are something to avoid. They sure give me trouble. They not only contain glutamate from hydrolyzed bones and cartilage, but they contain sulfites. Can you remove the medication and put it in a spoon with some sugar and water, Laura? Maybe the doctor can prescribe it in another form. When Graham wants something cheesy or gooey, you might try making a cream sauce using Rice Dream plain rice milk(2cups), a little whole organic milk(1 cup), egg yolks(2), flour(5 T.), and butter(5 T.). I add some dry mustard(1/2t.) and a little Tillamook colby jack cheese (1/2 cup) grated) Adjust thickness you like by adding more liquid. It's good mixed with pasta or used in casseroles or over veggetables. Salt and pepper to taste. | ||
| dianne |
hi deb and all, i'm glad you had such a lovely vacation, deb and family! glad also that you're back. haven't seen anything lately about the BUMPER STICKERS that were maybe going to get printed and sent out with your cookbook....did you ever decide which slogans to print? btw, my book, a year and a half old now, is the ONLY cookbook i use. it's dog-eared and food-spotted and invaluable. | ||
| Deb A. |
Thanks,dianne...you know, I feel terrible about letting that project slide...but I still think it is a good idea. John...any chance that you son could get us a good deal still? or does he still work for that company? Glad you are still finding the book so useful! | ||
| Laura Gould
|
Thanks Deb and all, We have started to eliminate tomatoes and cheese from his diet....must have felt the same uneasiness about how frequently they are in his diet. I'm afraid we may have to cut back on breads as well... the foods available seem to be less and less....it's so hard to deal with all of this. Graham is trying so hard to get well...he has been on home iv's for over a week....everything is sooooooo complicated.....I wish I could just feed him meals withoug fear....it seems like everything is the enemy now. This horrible disease that ambushes Graham at every turn and now FOOD too becomes a sourse of concern.........it's enough to make my brain burst!!!!!!!!!!!! We had a pretty good day yesterday....we stayed away from cheese and tomatoes and only ate whole wheat pita bread with no additives.......dinner was also very nice chicken kabobs on couscous with grilled peppers and onions...organic Black Mission figs on the salad.......he felt a bit anxious after dinner.....I have to figure out why. The constant detective work just wears me out, especially when I fail =( So today we hope Graham feels better and his lung infections begins to heal....and his diet only makes him feel stronger not sicker.......I wish I was better at this...I wish I didn't make stupid mistakes.......I wish Graham didn't have to deal with any of it. Thanks so much for your constant support and good ideas...your a wonderful group of people.... xox Laura Mom of Graham | ||
| Deb A. |
Have you checked the ingredients in Graham's IV's? Just curious. | ||
| MEMorrisNJ
|
Re cheese, I had a terrible reaction this week to Alta Dena's Natural Select Goat Milk Cheese. Its been a long time since I have felt this bad and it took 24 hours to feel better. The cheese was made with cultured goat milk, salt, microbial enzymes. I suspect that "cultured" means it requires aging but I had forgot about how that can be a problem --- or maybe it was the animal free rennet --- or even both ----- In most cases, I cannot tolerate mozarella ------ But I never react to Trader Joe's Feta cheese (providing it is not the low-fat version) or the type of French round soft cheese that has an edible white coating over it which looks almost like paper regardless of the brand -- the name of the cheese escapes me ---- I mention all this in hopes it can be useful to Graham ---- Happy 4th to everyone. |
