Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help    
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Is this an msg reaction?

Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Share Your Symptoms » Is this an msg reaction? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 8:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the past couple of months i have had numerous symptoms that I believe are related to what I eat. These symptoms are:
Stomach pains and discomfort
Constipation (I eat lots of fiber)
A lot of times when I am eating something my nose will start to drip
face flush
burning lips

I have had two cases where I ate low sodium soy sauce (full of msg) and got extremely ill, once throwing up 31 times. In another instance, after eating at the Olive Garden I had severe upper abdomen pains, began to sweat and breathe shallow, my heart was racing, and I almost had to be taken to the emergency room.
Do these sound like they are msg reactions or something else like a food allergy or intolerance? Thanks so much for any help.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 8:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are describing my life up to 6 years ago! Jen, learn all you can to avoid MSG. If you have read my story posted on our website and several postings here of others, you will see the similarities. All your symptoms are typical of MSG sensitivity.
Someone just e mailed me telling me that on last Monday's TV show, Becker, MSG was a huge part of the storyline. Twice, Becker, after being invited up to the apartment of his young date after dinner, began to experience heart palpitations. He left her to check out his heart at his office. This happened a second time at the same Chinese restaurant and the girl left him there. He thought it was due to cold feet. The owner came out and complained that he just had to fire his cook, who was putting MSG in everything. Becker says, "I hate that stuff! It's awful!". We have received so much e mail since that airing!
You are not alone and the numbers are growing who are making the MSG connection. I'm going to suggest that you get my book, something I don't like to do on this bulletin board. We did not set it up to promote the book, but since you are experiencing such serious reactions, I believe it's important that you learn all that you can to avoid MSG and all its hidden sources. You can e mail me at anytime if I can be of more assistance.
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:18 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jen, Everything we eat has glutamates. I suggest you read Debby's book, "Battling the MSG Myth" as soon as you can. You will not believe how much MSG you are eating. Restaurants are bad news! Many of us here on this discussion board don't eat anything but our own cooking. It's the only way you'll know what's in the food. I have never been a believer in eating organic foods, but now it's a must for me. Russet potatoes and iceburg lettuce are sprayed with AuxiGro, which contains lots of MSG. Tomatoes and mushrooms, even raw, are high in glutamates. Debby's book has a wealth of information. Good luck, and hope to hear you're feeling better soon.
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 2:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How in the world do we find out what veggies/fruit
are sprayed with AuxiGro? This is a big concern
for me because I sure need veggies/fruits but I sure don't want to get sick again. I suffered so
bad with Fibromyalgia before I found out about the Excitotoxins and what they were doing to me. I don't want to become paranoid but like everything else being in the know is most important. Knowledge is the key.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 3:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y, Do you have a Costco near you? Or a Sam's? I can handle some of their packaged lettuces that say "no preservatives". But I do wash them in a mild solution of dish detergent, or baking soda, as someone suggested. You can tell any grocer about your "severe" (say that to him) sensitivity (or say allergy, as they understand that word better)and he can trace the distributor, who can most times track a product down to the plant,and even to the farm, sometimes. Tell him you react to certain preservatives, and pesticides, particularly AuxiGro or any other metabolic growth enhancer. Write it out for him with your name and phone number. I keep a record of the fruits and vegetables I have luck with at which stores. It has been a trial and error thing, unfortunately. And I have a good sized garden, and two freezers now, which helps tremendously. If you know someone who gardens and you don't have the time, offer to buy produce from them.
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jen, I have suffered from both food allergies, and MSG reactions. I tell them apart by taking my blood pressure. When things speeded up and my heart would pound, and my blood pressure would rise, it was MSG, when things would shut down and my blood pressure would drop, it would be allergy.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 6:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

My coworker also told me about the "Becker" episode where the restaurant owner had to fire the cook for MSG use. Word gets around!

As for Auxigro, expect it to become virtually unavoidable.

Per the link below, Auxigro "has received EPA registration (No. 70810-1) for use on snap beans, cucumbers, navy beans, pinto beans, grapes, bulb onions, peppers, strawberries, watermelons, celery, lettuce, peanuts, potatoes, tomatoes and an Exemption From Tolerance for all crop applications. Other crops will be added to the product label in the near future."
Gerry Bush
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about organic fruits and veggies? They can't use Auxigro on them, can they?
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jack Samuels has been trying to educate the national organization of organic growers, especially on the local California level. They were ready to okay it for their produce (after all, the producers argued, it's made of natural ingredients), until he gave his statements. It ended, I believe, as tabled for a while, and then was left up to the growers to decide for themselves. I may be interpreting what I heard incorrectly, but Jack said that due to the irrigation systems and run-off between farms, one crop sprayed with AuxiGro will contaminate another, anyway. People, keep writing to health editors of magazines, newspapers, health care providers, and gov't agencies. Submit a story about your personal health nightmare on this board for others to read and relate to, and also, to the health editors of any magazine you can think of. Make them dignified, personal and honest. The pen is maybe one of the last weapons we have against huge food and drug corporations that are getting more greedy and more powerful every day. They care nothing about our health, but if the public continues to make the MSG connection, they will to forced to bow to public outrage.
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 4:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for your wise and helpful
comments concerning AuxiGro and safe produce. I
will have to take advantage of the Farmers Markets
this summer and get to work preserving.
Barbara Scoles
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 11:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been suffering with migraines and fibromyalgia for years. I finally made the connection when I got violently ill every time I had a salad in a restaurant. I called them and asked if there was MSG in the salad dressing and they said yes. I can tell when I am going to have a migraine because the fibromyalgia symptoms get worse every day. Once my body purges itself of the nasty stuff, I feel so much better, but I go through absolute torture for 8-24 hours.
I had a 28 year old friend at work who suddenly died of a heart problem. She had a migraine the day before she died. I often wonder if MSG killed her. Her dad and brother both died of the same thing several years earlier. And I too believe that a lot of the ADHD and other physical ailments are a result of the chemicals added to our foods. It should be a crime for these food companies to poison us like this. Deb...I can't wait to read your book. Can you truly be MSG free and therefore without migraines? I would do anything to never have a migraine again!!
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 10:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barbara. I suffered from Migraine headaches for 21 years....2-3 a week. During the 4 years prior to making the MSG connection, I suffered pains that would probably have been diagnosed as FMS, although the doctors were baffled and called it tendonitis. As for heart attacks, we know of several people who blame their heart conditions on MSG. (arrhythmia, fibrillations, severe heart pain, and more) My brother-in-law and son-in-law have both ended up in the hospital with what they thought was a heart attack. Tests showed no scarred hearts or irregularities later. They finally have made the MSG connection.
But think of the constant damage being done to those with similar reactions who never make the connection. In the book, you will learn things about MSG in foods that you weren't aware of. Give yourself the time (and mistakes) it will take to get a real handle on this dangerous food additive, and be sure to read about aspartame and sulfites, too. People tell me that after they had read it twice, they absorbed even more. One person leaves it in his bathroom, and takes time to study when forced to sit! Whatever works. E mail me {} any time if I can answer any questions you might have after you have read the book. Trust your body, especially if you have reacted and thought that what you ate was safe. It most likely wasn't. Best wishes for your improved health, Barbara.
Barbara Scoles
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 8:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for your support. I look forward to reading your book. I will order it tonight.
I have had migraines since 1977. I too have suffered through times when I had them several times a week. I had a terrible one last Sunday and I have been fighting one all day today. I went to the grocery store today and bought nothing but fruits and vegetables. That is all I have eaten today.
Are you still getting migraines? If so, how frequently?
I did away with aspartame years ago. It caused stomach pain.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 9:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barbara, I'm so sorry you are suffering again so soon with another Migraine headache. I have not had one of those horrific, "please shoot me, someone!" Migraine headaches in years. I will get maybe 1 or 2 minor headaches a month ( but I didn't have one for 3 months in a row last fall), but they are nothing at all to handle and respond to OTC meds. When you finally start getting better at avoiding MSG, at first your body seems to become even more sensitive to the least amount. However, I think this is part of a healing mechanism. Your body begins to recapture stasis, a balance and new health it hasn't felt in years. When MSG is introduced in whatever form, it's like the body's defense system is in a stronger, healthier mode, and up goes the red flag as if to say, "no way, we're not going there again". This may account for people's feelings that they are becomeing more MSG sensitive. In a way, they are, since the body recognizes what the enemy is clearly now, and so do you. But as Dr. Carol Foster, a neurologist and headache specialist says, when you put more time and distance between headaches )or reactions), your body and system recover more quickly, and you are generally healthier. For me that has been true, and in addition, I rarely get sick anymore, when I used to end up in the doctor's office with a ear, nose, throat or lung infection several times a year. So far last year, I had one infection that went into my lungs and with bed rest, I beat it without antibiotics, which I could never had done even 6 years ago. Since then, my doctor rarely sees, me and that is when I made the MSG connection. Hang in there, and learn, learn, learn all you can, Barbara. It will become easy, so don't get so overwhelmed at first. Take baby steps and you can do what I did. One thing that helps me now if I eat the wrong thing and I feel that headache coming on is that I take a Benedryl ( I use a generic brand, Bene-hist), and it allows me to sleep through the night. Of course, this helps for the minor to medium headaches, and I don't know what it would do for a full blown Migraine headache. I am a bit groggy in the morning, but at least I am not kept up all night. 3 Ibuprofen help me, too. But remember that meds are not the answer. They have serious side effects, especially prescription drugs, and some analgesics, especially Excedrin, cause rebound headaches. Avoiding excitotoxins (MSG, aspartame, and l-cysteine) and sulfites is the answer. Also, try to avoid ripe bananas, chocolate, and caffeine.
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 9:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Welcome to the website and discussion group. I hope you feel better real soon. Deb A's advice is right on. In my case, the frequency of headaches gets worse with age, though through diet, they are much shorter and less severe. I can trace almost every one of them to something I ate. Watch out for tyramine as well as MSG and sulfites. Bananas, chocolate, and caffeine all have tyramine, which can raise blood pressure and cause migraines. There is a long list of foods with tyramine. Do a word search here for more info. It will seem that there is nothing left for you to eat, but Debby's book has lots of suggestions, as do the people on this board.
Barbara Scoles
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 4:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Deb and Ruth. I just suffered through one the worst migraines today. Unfortunately, I got your info about bananas too late. It is one of the few things I have eaten today..however, it was still a little green so I hope it doesn't cause me to be ill again.
Sometimes I go for a couple of weeks without a migraine. I keep thinking I am eating right during those times. Am I fooling myself? Is it possible that MSG is slowly building in my system?
I went through the kitchen with the list of names of MSG and additives that have MSG in them..I only had a couple of things I could eat..pineapple and carrots. Any ideas for things I can eat until I get the book? Few of the brands of things that I have read about on the discussion board are familiar. Is Nature's a good place to shop? I am getting hungry and I don't want to take a chance on getting another migraine any time soon.
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 8:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Green bananas were a problem. I was eating one every day for breakfast. Maybe it didn't help on an empty stomach. Anyway, two weeks being headache-free is pretty good for me. As hard as I try, I am still having reactions from the foods I eat. I am not familiar with Natures Market, but it sounds like a health food store. Organic brown rice, potatoes (russet and sweet), eggs (I toss out most of the yolk, a fresh cooked steak (left-overs build up more tyramine), and Contessa brand frozen shrimp are all safe for me to eat. I make bread in a bread machine-it does all the work. I use only organic flour with no barley malt. Organic lettuce is the extent of my salad. Everything else (tomatoes, avacados, mushrooms, and onions) gives me headaches. I make a dressing from organic lemon juice (fresh lemon), olive oil (health food store brand), sugar, salt, pepper, basil, and garlic powder. I eat oranges, apples, kiwi, and that's about it. Since I still am getting headaches (not as many and not as severe as they used to be, which was almost daily), I still could be getting some glutamates and tyramine in the fresh fruits. Most fruits and vegetables have either natural glutamates or tyramine in them. You need to try them one at a time. But I really am not sure which of the foods are the problem. What saves me when I do get a headache is a prescription drug called Maxalt. It isn't safe for everyone, but you might talk to a doctor if you haven't tried it. It's a miracle drug. I have a life now, thanks to Debby's book and the people on this board. Hope these suggestions help.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 10:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ruth, does the organic flour contain any vitamins that have been added. Lately, I have noticed that the Gold Medal Organic flour makes me itch like mad. I have stopped using it, and now use the hard white wheat we grind ourselves or commercial whole wheat. I feel a much better. Did anyone read this month's Better Homes and Gardens? There's an article about vitamins, and the consensus is that they are unnecessary. We've been saying that for years. It's hype and big business. If you are taking any supplements, Barb, that may be the problem, too. They are full of glutamate containing substances in the form or fillers, binders, and stabilizers. You book is in the mail today. Until then, cook up some brown rice (we prefer the calrose or plump short grain, and we don't overcook it, so it's not mushy. We fry it in oil or butter and eat with eggs in the morning. We add milk and cinnamon/sugar or honey for a snack. We fry it up with onions, celery and herbs for a pilaf or add a couple scrambled eggs and some more veggies for dinner. It's so versatile and packed with nutrition compared to white rice. We use Rice Dream plain (not enriched with anything), rice milk, and a little organic whole milk. Kavli rye crackers found in health food stores are a lifesaver for me if I want a snack...good spread with almond butter, or the olive dip I mentioned in another posting today. I do best with mild cheeses, such as mozzarella, and can get by with a small amount (not daily) of colby jack by Tillamook. I am fine with Foster Farms fresh (not frozen) boneless chicken breasts that I buy at Costco ( and their fresh wings, thighs and legs), but cannot handle their whole chickens for some reason. I wash meats well. We enjoy cube steaks, steaks, ground round from the butcher. We have done okay with pork from Safeway that is untreated, but they don't always have it. Our butcher gets pork that is untreated, and I get the ground pork to make sausage occasionally ( the Country Sausage is so easy and very tasty, in the book). You could use beef, too. We wash all our vegetables well, (in baking soda, or a mild detergent solution). we eat lots of fruits and vegetables, but go very easy on bananas. I do fine if they aren't very ripe. Fresh squeezed orange juice is great with olive oil, salt and pepper for a salad dressing, too, or to fry salmon in. We buy the fresh filets from Costco and after washing well, saute, adding a little chopped onion, orange juice, salt and pepper to the olive oil. Please be sure to read the warning to hypersensitive individuals, and the substitute chart before using the recipes. And do read the informative section right away...there are many tips for shopping and eating there, also. Hang in there, Barbara!
Barbara Scoles
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 12:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks again everyone!! I am off to Nature's this afternoon. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for the status of my book delivery too Deb. I am anxious to get my hands on it!! You all are wonderful and I do so appreciate the support.
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 1:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb A.- the flour is enriched. It wasn't labeled in the bulk section, but I checked the packaged flour and there it was. It's Arrowhead Mills and I've been eating a lot of it! Maybe that is the reason for the headache I've had for 5 of the last 6 days. Not a bad headache, but annoying just the same. I bought some whole wheat flour, hope that's O.K. Also bought some pastry flour, which had nothing added to the wheat. I was told that it wouldn't make a very good bread (wouldn't have a crust). Maybe I'll mix the two flours. Also, I bought some spelt flour. I have no idea how it tastes, but it has a bread machine recipe on the back.

Deb A., Is it difficult to grind your own wheat? What do you use to grind it and where do you buy the wheat? Is this info in your book?
Evelyn H.
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 1:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.--My husband wanted me to post and tell you that he loves your book. He made the most delicious waffles for breakfast yesterday (and lots of extras to freeze for quick breakfasts). My son ate a whole one. Just wanted to say, thanks. Thanks, too, for all of the great ideas everyone posts on this site. It's been an eye-opener for me and probably a lifesaver for my son.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 2:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad to help, Ruth! Hope it's the culprit for you. Don't you just love this detective game we play???? Grinders can be found via the net and I think Bosch makes a good one. Ours was a kit we bought years ago and put together. It's very easy to operate, and we love the flour that we get from hard white wheat. I use it to make everything and the cakes never have a heavy feel, like some whole whear flours produce. At my health food store, I can find white and whole wheat pastry flour. It is made from soft wheat and so does not contain as much gluten which helps produce a better loaf of bread. Try some of the recipes in the book. The soft whole wheat rolls are great and can be made into a bread loaf, too, but do use hard wheat flour. A health food store can help you locate some whole grain wheats and a grinder. We actually go to the farm country and to a grainery station to get our wheat, but we are in an agricultural area. You can also contact your extension agency for ideas, too. I can also find whole wheat there, but not the hard white wheat. The book has some sources, too.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 12:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, thank your husband for's so nice to get feedback about the book, and to know people are benefiting from it. You made me hungry for waffles and we are having them for dinner tonight. My husband always makes them. It's his thing.
Ruth, the last part of my previous posting made no sense. I don't get my wheat from the extension agency! Sorry. I meant I can find whole wheat at my health food store. They can order it for you, too, usually.
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 9:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb A. I'll look into grinding my own wheat.
Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 5:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use an electric coffee grinder that I have devoted for grinding small amounts of grains and spices. Its quick and doesn't take up room on the counter. I grind up quinoa, millet, buckwheat, oats, and so on to use as coatings, thickeners or to make grain pancakes.
Judy T
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 9:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorrisNJ: Ah,great idea. Thank you.
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 6:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know this is an MSG reaction but just thought I'd share it with everyone since I haven't seen it reported before. I had Trader Joe's mayonnaise in a tuna sandwich before bed. The mayo had "spices" in the ingredients and I knew I should avoid it but it looked so yummy and I was feeling really good for the past month -- you know how it goes.

Well, I was very tired but I became wide awake and did some reading. When I finally went to bed a couple of hours after my normal bedtime, I began dozing immediately but when I started to go off, I felt something on the right side of my brain kind of buzz and at the same time, one finger on my left hand would twitch. This continued for around an hour or more.

Has anyone else experienced problems like this?

PS I recommend that no one have commercially made mayo and instead stick to Debby A's homemade recipe for mayo! It tastes better and you don't suffer!
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Re: Safe Mayo
I have posted this before, but thought I'd throw it in again. I've been using Mystic Lake Dairy Canola Oil Mayonnaise for over a year with no problems. (I'm switching away from canola oil otherwise, but what can you do?) I get it locally at Oasis Fine Foods, which is affiliated with Wild Oats health food stores. Ingredients: Canola oil, whole eggs, vinegar, water, egg yolks, salt, sweetened with Mystic Lake's mixed fruit concentrate (100% pineapple syrup, pear and peach juice concentrates). NO "spices" or "flavor". There may be traces of glutamate via the vinegar, processed eggs and/or "mixed fruit concentrate" so that if you ate it several times a day it might add up to cause a mild reaction. But I have yet to trace any reaction to using this mayo, which I often use for tuna sandwiches and on burgers. I have also used it in potato salad (w/organic potatoes) with success. (Distributed by Pacific Matrix F.S.C., Seattle, WA 98133) (No connection with the company.) One of the few convenience foods I can still rely on. :)
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 10:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reaction to MSG?
I have seen ref to "headaches", but not any specific description.
Recently I have noted this. Shortly after eating suspect foods- A sensation - slight tingling in the mouth, but more of an after taste feeling, like after eating raw onion, later a tingling/burning in the nose/sinus area, later a burning sensation in the head - like my brain had been injected with hot sauce. It continued all night, abating somewhat as time passed. Morning - persistent, but mild.

It did not interfere with sleep.

Is there and antidote?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 3:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


A burning sensation on the tongue, as if I'd just scalded it, was always a dead giveaway that I'd eaten something with MSG. It was one symptom that would last for days. I was never able to cure it, it just had to run its course. I don't get that symptom any more as some scary reactions (I don't romanticize near death experiences) have led me to strictly avoid MSG.

Some people claim that coenzyme q-10, taurine, and other supplements taken in advance reduce their symptoms, but that they are less effective as an "antidote".
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 5:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


This link lists some MSG reactions:
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2001 - 7:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just wrote a comment on Robert Earl's article on the above website. He claims that although people do have problems with Chinese Restaurant Syndrom, there is no such thing as Italian Restaurant Syndrom, which he says should be much worse, as there is more MSG in the food. I wrote that I, and many people have every restaurant syndrome. I also gave them this website and told them it was helping many people to live better lives. I don't know if they print comments, but it helped just to let off some steam.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2001 - 9:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Way to go, Ruth. It's a shame someone coined the phrase Chinese Restaurant Syndrome in the first place. It's misleading and biased.
Darrell Thatcher
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 5:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I took a prescription drug in a gelatin capsule yesterday. I woke up this morning with swelling, redness and itching in my knuckles. Could this be an MSG reaction to the gelatin?
Laurie M
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 8:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I get something similar to hives on my hands from gelcaps and sulfa drugs. You could very well be having a reaction
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 9:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gelatin contains free glutamic acid and some of the fillers in the drug may contain sources of it, too. You can go to the pharmacist and ask for a full list of the ingredients in the drug. Itching is a very common reaction to both MSG and sulfites.
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 3:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, what alot of information. No tomatoes?

What kind of lettuce, iceberg? I eat leafy greens.
Laurie M
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 4:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It all depends. I don't have any reaction to natural foods. Only processed ones. I can eat tomatoes, spinach, and mushrooms etc. without any reaction at all. Some people have developed a sensitivity to natural MSG as a result of the abnormal stuff.
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 8:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stick to whatever lettuce you can find that's organic. I have found organic iceberg lettuce at Whole Foods Market. Regular California iceberg lettuce is usually sprayed with AuxiGro-MSG. I react to tomatoes, mushrooms, and spinach. Best to try one at a time and see how you feel.
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 10:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I dont react to natural tomatoes but I may react to cooked ones like ketchup and tomato sauce. I dont know. I know that I react from soy sauce and bragg amino. I also react to some dairy products.
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 5:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley - What are the ingredients in your ketchup and tomato sauce?
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 5:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use Deb A.'s Instant Ketchup from her book. It is so easy to make and tasty. There's no cooking, either. Deb A., can we post the recipe here? I love your book, and its battered appearance is proof of how much I depend on it. Thank you for writing it. It has been a lifesaver for my daughter and I and many of my friends, too!
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 6:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I ordered the book a few days ago, not here yet.

I make it with dehydrated tomatoes and tomatoes with seasonings.

Ketchup comes from hfs: organic tomato puree, organic cane sugar, organic white wine vinegar, sea salt, organic onion poder, oils of clove, cassia and celery, organic garlic powder, and organic cayenne.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 8:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

shirley, dehydrated tomatoes may contain more freed up glutamate than fresh ones if heat has been used to dry them...and commercial ones usually contain sulfites to retain the red color. I just use Muir Glen tomato puree (strained and no citric acid added)to make my catsup, and then just stir in fresh lemon juice, sugar and spices. I'm glad you ordered the book. If you ordered thru. our site, it will be there soon. T.C., the instant catsup recipe can certainly be posted here. I would do it right now, but I have some family downstairs calling me to play a board game. I read your post and want to say it warms my heart to know that you are such a caring dad to be making sure both you and your daughter are avoiding MSG. Great job! Happy you like the book.
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't believe all the great info on this website! Thank you for taking your time to help other people. I recently ate at a Japanese Steakhouse, had a marvellous meal, but ended up very sick all the next day, only able to move off the couch to pee. My stomach was upset but I was famished and ate all day. I don't know if I had the problem from the MSG or the sulfites in the 2 glasses of plum wine I drank (probably both). I do know I have a reaction whenever I drink alcohol, but didn't realize it might be the sulfites until I found this website. The next day after I drink alcohol (even if its only 1-2 drinks), besides being very tired, is that my upper body, from my hips to my head, is sore to the slightest touch, and continues to worsen through the day. By the time I go to bed, it hurts to lay down. It's similar to the feeling I get when I am sick and have a fever, only I don't have a fever. Whenever I mention this problem to the doctors, they are puzzled. Has anyone else had or heard of this problem? I try to avoid alcohol, but every once in a while I think it will be ok, but it's not!
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:47 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You sound like you are sensitive to both sulfites and MSG. When you ingest both at the same time, the reaction is intensified.
Judy T
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I used to have these symptoms; I would get the 'flu' and 'arthritis' as well as heart palpitations. Now I can have some sulfites and am even back to some pastas and breads.
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, what do you mean "now" you can have some sulfites, etc.? What did you do to rid yourself of the symptoms? (I too am having arthritis pains in my hands which come and go for no apparent reason, and I am only 40. It just started again the day after I had the Japanese meal!)
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear LL,

I found out that eating different foods with MSG produced different symptoms. None pleasant by the way! Arthritis pains in hands, shoulders and joints has been one of my common symptoms. Apart from avoiding MSG in all of its forms, I drink tons of water with lemon when I have the symptoms. This may help you to wash some of the MSG from your system.

Today I woke up with a terrible headache and stomach sickness. I could not even go to work. Why? Possibly a PLAIN salad I ate in a restaurant yesterday.
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry to hear about your headache. I can't eat
any lettuce unless it's organic. Do you have a health food store nearby? We need to convince our local grocery stores to carry more organic produce! I buy several different non-organic fruits and vegetables, but usually only the ones I can peel. Lettuce is a big problem for a lot of people, and since AuxiGro is systemic, it is absorbed by the plant and can't be washed off. Also, now that restaurants are not allowed to spray lettuce with sulfites (another big headache trigger), I hear they spray it on the cellophane the lettuce comes wrapped in. Also, restaurants are using certain washes to clean lettuce with. I have seen some for sale in grocery stores, and they contain citric acid (MSG) as well as other problem ingredients. Learned all of this from this wonderful discussion board. Hope this helps.
Judy T
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 1:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LL: What I meant, was that 'now' that I have been clean since March 2000, I eat grapes after washing and do not have reactions (probably some sulfites on grapes required to get rid of many pests); I can drink a glass of wine, say once a month and no reaction; I can drink two BudLites i one day(or other Anheuser Buesch beers) with no reactions (they say all beers have sulfites). I do not eat restaurant lettuce or cut up fruits (I figure there's something on them, if it's sulfite based I don't have a clue). When I go out I am so so careful. I eat in advance. For breakfast I have poached eggs and can now eat toast, or sometimes I have oatmeal if they show me the oatmeal box so it's not instant. For lunch...well that's the hardest; a plain hamburger and slice of tomato is typical. For dinner I eat a hamburger or steak with nothing on it, steamed veggies and maybe a plain noodle or pasta or baked potato. And I have a beer in a can, not from their bar pumps. I'm in good humor about others eating when I can not. For example, last night we went to Costco's. My husband loves their Polish hotdogs. Gawd. So do I. He had one with a coke. I drank some water and we laughed and talked about the day. I carry some nuts and seed mixture which I nibbled at. Part of our dilemma is not to let others be drawn into our personal drama. My husband eats his regular icky fast food diet, knowing it might be hurting him, but enjoying as he goes. All this is more than you asked or wanted to know.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 4:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, the personal insights you have shared are very important to the person just making the MSG connection to their health problems. Getting to that point where you can say no and not get depressed when the people around you are enjoying that hotdog is a HUGE step. When you make it, you feel finally in control of your health AND your attitude/happiness. But letting others learn that it is worth the frustrations and setbacks to get to that point is good for everyone to hear...again and again. This is a physical and mental/emotional battle for each of us. Thanks and well said!
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 6:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I have stated a number of times that I actually love this diet now that I have convinced my wife that low carbs and higher fat & protein are OK. We have a restaurant nearby that serves an awesome strip steak and eggs. Now that's what I used to crave for years but my wife denied me. Now I have it after every doctors office visit and consider it a treat for myself. So there -- the diet's not so bad when you look at it as treating yourself to some of the better tasting foods in life. Life is good now and I feel great.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 8:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You guys are definitely doing better than I have been this summer! Way too many's too easy when we have a house full of company to feed almost constantly..we have had our daughter and family live with us ( he has been going to dental school out of state, and he works for a dental clinic here in the summer) for the last 3 summers, and I know I bake more and have more tempting "stuff" to munch on for the sake of the kids. Next spring they will be done and in their own house across town! We have really enjoyed them, but I can really tell how much better we feel (and weight we lose) when just Mike and I eat more simply...fewer carbs and more proteins. I promised him we would be back to normal after this trip to Reno! Thanks for the inspiration, Tom and Judy! It's back on the wagon for us. :)
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 9:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy and amh, thanks so much for all the info. It is very helpful, as I am just new to all this. I have been having problems for over 10 years and not known why, only that I am worse when I drink alcohol. There have been days when my body was sore and I hadn't had any alcohol to drink and I was puzzled, now I know it was probably something else I ate, probably with sulfites in it. I am not as sensitive as you are, and I feel really bad for all of you that have to live every day worrying about what to eat. It is overwhelming. I am angry that auxigrow has been approved. How are those of you that are so sensitive going to be able to eat? This issue is so important, more so that anything else, as people can't live without eating! It is so maddening that we have allowed our society to poison all of us.
Deb, is there a lot of info in your book relating to sulfites? I am going to order it, just not sure how many I want yet! Thanks for the great website! I've recently been on others which are way too commercialized, mostly trying to push their books. It makes me wonder how dedicated they really are to helping, or if they just want to help themselves by pushing their book.
Tom Fersntrom
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 1:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


You mention your problem with drinking alcohol, but you don't identify what kind of alcohol you are drinking. i have found it necessary to stay away from domestic wines (many add natural flavors) -- drink imported wines. Cheap hard liquor must contain MSG ingredients -- I react immediately and so do a number of my fellow A-Fib sufferers. I and they need to stick to the more expensive liquors -- personally for me Seagrams V.O. for others the expensive vodkas, scotches & gins. I can handle a couple of Miller Lites, but Bud Lite kills me (and many others).

So I think you have to be more specific before you categorize all alcohol as causing you a problem.

Just remember, alcohol can make you hungrier and cause you to "cheat" on your diet if you are not careful. And then you tend to blame the alcohol for a reaction when it could be the food still.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 5:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great advice, Tom.
LL., Yes, there is a whole chapter on sulfites in the book, but I also agree with Tom when he suspects that you could be reacting to both sulfites and glutamates well hidden in certain alcoholic's even hidden in a lot of fruit drinks and teas that are "flavor enhanced". Frankly, Mike and I spend very little time trying to sell our book. We give a few testimonials on our site because I know how distrustful I am of some of the stuff sold via the Net...and I would go to the testimonials on most sites myself. We should be doing a lot more than we are to get the book out there to warn and help people...but our time is so filled with many obligations, among them answering at least 5 MSG e mail inquiries a day, along with monitoring this site and discussion board, and "walking through" many troubled and unsure people who have just made the MSG connection and who call us...sometimes at 6 in the morning. (unaware of the time differences!). Believe me when I say, we absolutely love what we are doing...especially the one on one stuff and getting to work with such fantastic people like the people here...I am not complaining. We feel like we are able to at least reach and help some people and that feels VERY good! Just wish we could reach even more.
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 9:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, thanks for the advice. When you say you react to cheap liquor, in what ways? I rarely get headaches or bm problems or stomach problems, just a sore body and NO energy the next day, kind of like the flu for a day.

I never drink beer, hardly ever wine (although the last 2 times I got very sick this summer, both nights I had wine- one night 1/2 glass white after dinner,and 3 peach schnapps with oj and cranberry juices before dinner:the other night 2 glasses plum). I am pretty sure the food had a part in those evenings as I did have bad dia one night,(blackened Mahi), and Japanese food the other.

I used to drink only the better liquors- Bacardi Rum with diet coke or iced tea and sweet & low, Quervo Tequila with oj (my favorite), champagne and oj, Kahlua and milk. I only drank on the weekends when I went out, usually just Fri nights. I say I used to because I really have been making an effort these last several years to stay away from alcohol as even 1 or 2 drinks will make me feel terrible and my body sore the next day. I never feel this sick the next day unless I have had alcohol the night before, so I assume it's something in the alcohol. I can drink oj, diet coke (not any more after the info from this website!) iced tea, (no more artificial sweeteners either!) and milk alone without any problems. It is possible that all liquor doesn't affect me, but I've tried alot of different types (I used to be a bartender for many years) and it seems like all the ones I like don't like me!

Deb, you're doing a great job! I found this website just by doing a search on AOL for MSG. I think it was one of the first ones listed, and it caught my eye. I am so glad it did. It has changed my life and made me more aware of alot of things. My Dad is in his 70's and very sick, and he drinks 3-4 Diet Cokes a day, has for many years! He has paranoia, serious memory problems, breathing problems, etc. and I have been trying to get him to drink water for a while. I am even more determined to try to get him off the DC and on water. I know this isn't the cause of all his problems as he has alot of other health issues, but it can't be helping.
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 10:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most wines have sulfites, but I hear there are some now that are natural, probably available at health food stores. I gave up all alcohol, starting with wine years ago, as it all gave me hangovers and several day migraines.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 5:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LL, Alcohol can, by itself, cause vitamin B6 deficiency. It also is famous for giving the liver a hard time. Consequently, alcohol will interfere with your ability to handle an MSG reaction for three reasons: 1) vitamin B6 defienciency appears to make an MSG reaction worse, 2) the liver transaminates excess amino acids, and 3) the liver is where taurine is made. If you are eating out, skip the alcohol if you can. If you are home and more in control of the ingredients in your dinner, maybe try a safe alcoholic drink.
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 9:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

4 years ago I had a healthy lifestyle. I went to a gym, performed exercise
ate healthy foods. I didn't drink much alcohol, I only went drinking
probably once a month and that was only moderately drinking.

Then one day I developed a severe pain in my stomach which later turned out
to be an appendix problem. I was taken to hospital and had my appendix
removed. I was told that the appendix had turned sceptic? and my body had
produced lots of white blood cells? I recovered in hospital for only one
day and then was sent home. I was told that I had recovered unusually
quickly (whether that makes a difference I don't know).

About a month after my operation, I was invited to a night out round town.
After having a mere quarter of a pint of cider (which I would normally
drink) I started to get a tingling sensation in my gums. This was only
after a minute of drinking and eventually it turned into a sort of throbbing
sensation. This strange feeling passed but everytime I took another sip I
regained the sensation in my mouth. After about 5 minutes of drinking my
first drink, I started to feel warm all over my body, then I started to feel
the palms of my hands and feet getting hotter and then feeling really itchy.
The feeling grew stronger I noticed that on various locations of my body
(only the places where the skin was rubbing on something), under my armpits,
my stomach were my belt was, back of my knees etc.. i developed a rash. The
only way to stop this sensation was to literally press my hands on something
really cold to stop the burning sensation. This experience alarmed me as I
never had problems drinking before. I put it down to possibly bad cider?

Over the months following I tried the occasional drink e.g. wine, lager,
whisky, vodka... but I always ended up with the same reaction. On going to
the doctors to ask why this had started happening I was told "its just one
of them things.. and it may pass eventually". I didn't want to accept that
answer, so I was sent to a dermatologist specialist. He tested my skin
using pin pricks and noted that I had developed a sensitivity to ethanol
(which is a basic part of alcohol). I was told to try taking antihistamines.
I tried it once and all it did was to limit the itching sensation only. The
redness, feeling hot and hives still occurred. I was told that there was
nothing else for me to do and that I would be better just leaving it and see
what happens. I never touched anything alcoholic for 8 months. Then I
tried a drink of lager... as usual I got the same reaction.

I tried to find out more for myself by studying books, using the internet
etc... I tried an alternative medicine place and was told to cut down on
certain foods and eat more wholesome foods. I was told that it was possible
that my liver had been overloaded with toxins since my operation and had
never recovered, and as such everyime I drink, I place more toxins in my
body which get rejected straight away. I was told that my body needed to
recover and a healthy detox may help do the trick.

I tried the detox for around three months and then tried an alcoholic drink.
I still got the reaction in my mouth (tingling sensations) but this went
away. I never got the itching sensation. However, after a few hours I did
get a slight itching on the back of my legs... but that was all. I was told
that a possible combination of acidic foods e.g. tomatos, orange juice eaten
could cause a build of acidic acid in my stomach which when mixed with
alcohol could cause a reaction which produced excessive histamines.

I am now at a loss because I dont know who to believe. I do notice that
when I eat acidic food and drink alcohol my reactions are stronger than when
I eat non acidic foods. All I know is that since having my appendix removed
I have never been able to drink alcohol without getting some sort of
reaction. I have no allergies to anything else. I don't think this is an
allergy. Could you help me at all? Do you think its related to my
operation or purely a coincidence. I only used to drink about once a month
before all this started happening.

Now i'm more confused because of people talking about Sulphite sensitivity.
I looked up articles and found out that a supplement of Molybdenum is
supposed to counteract suplhite sensitive people. I don't know what to do
any more its confusing!


Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 9:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Were you administered high dosages of antibiotics during and after your appendix episode? Antibiotics have been proven to wreak havoc with proper enzyme balance and this imbalance could be affecting the enzymes your body needs to digest alcoholic beverages properly.

My aunt & uncle both became Glutten intolerant after surgeries where they were administered high doses of antibiotics. Both have been able to return to wheat products with glutten but not until after many months of abstinance.

If these beverages contain MSG or byproducts that contain hidden glutamates, the reaction can be more severe. Along with the detox diet stay away from foods high in Glutamates like tomatoes and parmasian cheese as well as foods high in citric acid.

Also I have found that the pricier brands of alcohol taken without adding a mix cause me no reactions whereas cheaper beers, wines &/or liquors will set me off.
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 6:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I'm interested in knowing more about high dosages of antibiotics and proper enzyme balance. Two years ago my son had enough antibiotics I believe to cause all of his food allergies. He was very healthy until the first dose back in 1999. The only time he was very sick was after an MMR shot at age 2. Now he's chemical sensitive with the main problem being sulfites, mold, ordors, any chemical. With each round of antiobiotic his physical condition became worse and he kept getting strep infections. He was given antibiotics orally 9 times that year for strep infections in additon to 2 strong long lasting penicillin shots (very painful too). Then he went downhill healthwise in Feb. of that year when he had to be hospitalized for an unknown infection of the feet. He was given 3 strong antibiotics in the I.V. because they were unsure of the organism and his white cell count was 22,000 when admitted. Then he went home with a prescription of ciprofloxin which has all kinds of cautions for children -not good. It comes with a potential bone and joint damage for children. Do you know of any related info I could read about this and antibiotics? cheryl
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 6:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


If you do a keyword search on antibiotics, you will see all the postings from this discussion group. Many of them may have applications to your son's reaction to antiobiotics.
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 8:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My son can't eat acidic foods like oranges, lemons, citric acid and added acids(chemicals) as perservatives. He also can't eat dehydrated onions or onion powder, but I use scallions in cooking. Are these MSG foods? He reacts to the chemical form of MSG, but I don't think natural sources are a problem. I'm not sure about tomatoes he hates them except as ketcup and I found 1 brand of ketcup he doesn't react to. I use Brooks ketsup. He's also sulfite sensitive. cheryl
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 4:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Cipro is bad news.

I was recently prescribed it for an infection and was so dizzy and ill from it at work one day I had to stop working and lie down. I would have gone home if I were in any condition to drive. Needless to say, I stopped taking the pills immediately even though it says to take them until they are gone.

I suspect it of contributing to my joint pain also, even a month after stopping it, but these things can be hard to verify.

If your son is still on cipro, I would look for a substitute right away. Having researched cipro myself, I also wonder about the wisdom of someone who would consider prescribing it for a child.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 3:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Cipro is only used as a last resort and my son had a very serious infection so I don't really blame his doctor for giving it to him. That was 1 and half years ago so it's not likely to cause any joint pain now unless there was joint damage which is a possiblity with that antibiotic. I'm very anti-antibiotic now and have since turned to herbs to keep him well and avoid infections. You're right the cure can be worse than the disease.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 5:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I too had a horrible reaction to Cipro. Thought that I was going to die.....and so did the doctor who prescribed it!
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 7:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My cat had a terrible reaction to one dose of Cipro. This is not a joke.
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 8:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I too had a very bad experience with Floxin in 1996. I took it for 2 days then the next night I ended up waking up disoriented, very dry mouth, it felt like my throat was going to close up, I was sweating, and my legs wouldnt work right- I felt like I was walking like a mummy. I also had a reaction to Noroxin in 1989 which made my legs numb. Those types of drugs sound very dangerous and I will never take them again. It's amazing what the doctors prescribe for us these days- whatever the latest drug rep pushes, whether it's safe or not. All the good old proven drugs (if there is such a thing) aren't being used, probably because they aren't money makers for the drug companies. Very sad.

I also have a question about sulfites. I seem to be sensitive to them and I noticed tonight that my favorite, Balsamic Vinegar, contains them! Is there a safe level of sulfites to ingest, and does alcohol contain more than vinegar?
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 12:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Count me in on the list of horrible reactions from taking Cipro. I was given it by my doctor for a routine UTI last summer, and the side affects were worse than the original problem. I wouldn't take it again if you paid me!

Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 6:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Re sulfites, There is alot of useful info re sulfites in Deb's book and within this site if you use the search function.

Also, I learned from Cheryl via the discussion board at that you can buy strips to find out if foods contain sulfites. The supplier is VWR International. Go to
and using the search feature, type in item
number 10013-1. (I have yet to try them.)
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 6:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P.S. They run around $40.00 for 100 strips. Cheryl suggests cutting them in 1/2 and not using to test hot foods to avoid false readings. If testing solids, add water and put the end of the strip in the liquid. Testing red and pink foods may be a problem. They don't show levels below 10 ppm.
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 4:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haven't read through all the other discussions yet which may have my answer but can someone tell me why when I happen to eat msg, usually by mistake, I wake up with my lower back hurting?
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 9:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's a common complaint. MSG effects the neurons in the brain, which can effect many areas of the body via the nervous system. It can cause muscles to contract and even twitch. Also, it causes an inflammation response. Sulfites are also known triggers for back pain, and many of us react to them as well.
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 2:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.
What type of inflammation response are you referring to?
I would be interested in hearing your response. Thanks
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 10:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We know and I myself can attest to the joint pain that I suffered that mimics arthritis and gout. Gout is a build up of uric acid, but in my case, I was tested and had neither. Then I was diagnosed with tendonitis, but nothing really helped the inflamed areas. The body responds to toxins by releasing t-cells, and histamine and other defenses that can cause inflammation, as a result.
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 8:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi to Judy T. I was reading some older postings and came across one where you talked about a body buzz. I have been experiencing something like that the past several months and not sure why. I feel like I have a low level vibration inside my body, mostly legs and arms and I can hear it in my ears in the early am. I usually notice it late in the evening or while in bed. I thought it was restless leg syndrome at first but now I'm not sure. I am trying many differnent things to try to make it stop. Does that sound like the same symptoms you have/had? I think you were the one that also mentioned some other symptoms you've had which sounded alot like some of mine.
Roy S. Piwovar
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 11:18 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


It sounds like what I get from caffeine.
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 5:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On rare occasions, I use to drink ultrapasteurized and/or low-fat milk before bed.
In addition to it keeping me up all night, I would get buzzing in my head, ears and a strange type of agitation. (I seem to recall Deb A. telling us that the processing may increase the glutamates which are generally high in milk anyway.) Many years ago, I use to get the buzzing when I ate pizza which I no longer touch.
Buzzing from the milk and pizza was very different and more difficult to tolerate than how I felt after drinking coffee.
My neurologist had no insight to share on this --- but why would I expect that he would -- he knows nothing about MSG and never heard of Dr. Blaylock or excitoxins -- and much to my upset, he appeared annoyed that I would even ask despite my careful approach. (Another doctor off my list!)
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 5:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Have you tried an elimination diet? (p.s. - I'd skip the "challenge" phase if you already know you react. It could be trouble.)
Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2001 - 9:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the insights! This buzzing is much different and more annoying than a caffeine buzz. I try to avoid caffeine as much as possible, and seldom drink coffee. I am very sensitive to caffeine, but not in a bad way- it just wakes me up and keeps me going, usually too long! FYI, I have found that different brands of coffee effect me differently. For example, better quality coffees do not make me jittery or anxious or give me a headache after a cup or two.
Anony, that is interesting about the milk. I have recently started drinking a small amount before bed as lack of calcium is one thing that can cause RLS. But I have had this buzzing much longer than that. That strange type of agitation you mention sounds like it might be restless leg syndrome. Do you feel like you just have to move, can't sit or lie still? That's how I get some evenings or in bed. It used to be just in my legs but now I feel it in my arms also. It sounds very strange and not like a big deal- you really can't imagine what it's like unless you've had it yourself. It's bizarre and extremely annoying. Fortunately it usually goes away after 5-15 minutes. Mine started when my Synthroid medication (for low thyroid) was increased last year. I decreased it back to where it had been and the RLS went away for 6 months, but for some reason it has come back! There is a great website on RLS if anyone is Sorry I couldn't link it.
Roy, thanks for the link. There's alot of info there. I don't think I am dedicated enough to do that diet, but I will keep it in mind. I think my problems are somehow related to my thyroid condition and or medication. I do know I am sensitive to several additives, MSG and sulfites.
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 8:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The buzzing that I mentioned on 10/5/01 does not make me want to move as you described, LL. I usually just lie there -- tired yet I feel wired. Normally, when I can't sleep for other reasons, I simply pick up an enjoyable book, read and fall asleep in a short while. However, when I am reacting to something like milk, I find my my thoughts are scattered and I cannot focus enough to read and just remain awake.

After having several severe reactions in a row a while ago, I noticed sudden and random twitching beginning in my toes on one side and radiating to my upper body on the other side. (Crazy, huh? Am I losing my mind?) This has since subsided, fortunately. Perhaps, this reaction would be the start of restless leg syndrome or a more serious neurological problem if I did not start my pure diet.

I find it "interesting" that I do not get the buzzing if I have my typical severe reaction to MSG which prompts my body to eliminate the offending food within 5 minutes to 2 hours. In a way, I feel fortunate that my digestive system works this way instead of my system storing up the excitoxins and suffering for days with migraines or muscle pains as many NoMSGers do.

Usually, I am OK within 24 hours but I must admit dropping a couple of pound or so and wondering what happens to my inflamed digestive system has had me very worried each time I have a reaction. But recently, I have been thinking more positively to help heal myself as I focus on maintaining a pure diet maybe, I feel that I am in more control now . I try to focus on the possibility that my weight loss is temporary because of water loss, I drink more bottled spring water and I envision my stomach and the rest of my elimination system losing the inflammed tissue as I generate new cells. For my nervous system and brain, I stay physically active walking each day and I envision gaining new brain cells as I try to learn more and challenge my brain.

It has taken me quite a long time (maybe 2 years or more) to become aware of what my body has been feeling --- no doctors have helped although I keep up my regularly scheduled visits primarily for diagnostic testing.

I wonder how many people are out there --- going through this unaware as they eat MSG in its various hidden forms --- working their way towards a more serious illness such as MS? I shudder at the thought and I am grateful for this site and all of you.

Sorry for going on so much.
Judy T
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LL: The buzzing in the core of my body is unrelated to excitotoxins; it seems to be a chromium deficiency. For a quicker, fuller discussion just contact me using tree view for e-mail.
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most doctors are useless when it comes to these kinds of disorders- I think the only thing they are taught to say is "its stress". While I agree that stress can and does cause a lot of problems and for a long time doctors discounted that, I think now they are too quick to use it as a diagnosis instead of really taking the time and effort to listen and properly diagnose. I have learned to listen to that little voice in my head that tells me about my body, not the doctor who doesn't know me. And I have found that when I don't listen to it, I am always sorry. I have just about given up finding a good doctor in Florida, have settled for one who isn't so busy you can't get in for months and when you do you have to wait for an hour for your "appointment".

I wish I didn't have to eat, and i don't eat alot or often, but I find that I get a headache when I don't eat. It is crazy that we are allowing ourselves to be poisoned by our food and beverages. And how can the medical field be so blind? But then again, even when people are told that things are bad for them (cigarettes), they still continue to use them! We are told to exercise to be healthy, but how many follow that advise? It's a sorry situation all the way around. BUT the bright side is that it is temporary! WE don't live forever! I know that sounds terrible, but it's a fact. EVERY DAY IS A GIFT and may be our last- we need to cherish it! Make sure you tell someone that you love them today!

Add Your Message Here
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Options: Post as "Anonymous"
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page