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Brain Chemistry

Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Sharing Scientific Information » Brain Chemistry « Previous Next »

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Deb S
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 12:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found this really interesting discussion of the primary neurotransmitters in the human brain and body.

http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html

The author? Here's his self-description:

http://www.benbest.com/personal/nutshell.html

For what it's worth, it seems to be based on accepted scientific facts and is logically organized and easy to understand, so it should be helpful in forming our theories about what causes and/or alleviates MSG reaction symptoms.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2000 - 4:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Per this link, MSG use could be related to Alzheimers and a condition called "Motor Neurone Disease", which causes muscle weakness and eventual paralysis:

http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/exterel/news/990225News/25.2.neurone.html
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2000 - 8:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What I find interesting is that they always say dietary MSG can't pass into the brain. I think the effect of dietary MSG on the insulin level which lowers the supply of glucose (the brain's fuel) causes the temporary leaky blood-brain barrier which would allow MSG access to areas these researchers always are a little too confident it doesn't cross. In effect, I think, dietary MSG carries its own "key" to get into the brain.
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2000 - 8:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That is the biggest lie that the glutamate industry uses when all else fails. They are relying on the industry-sponsored studies that looked at the wrong parts of the brain (i.e., not the hypothalamus) for raised glutamate levels. The hypothalamus is not protected by the blood brain barrier; and once glutamate crosses into that area it can spread to other areas, and cause chain-reaction type damage. Not to mention the havoc it can wreak with the endocrine system. And of course there are plenty of people who have leaky blood brain barriers, usually with no way of knowing this.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2000 - 4:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now, suppose, we actually humor them for one moment and grant them that MSG may not cross the blood brain barrier. It still is a concern:
1. Dietary MSG raises insulin
2. Blood Glucose is lowered
3. Brain experiences lack of fuel
4. "Pump" that gets rid of glutamate in the synapses between brain cells is temporarily not working due to brain fuel shortage.

In other words, assuming for one moment that dietary MSG doesn't get into the brain - what if dietary MSG temporarily disables the pump that keeps brain glutamate from damaging neurons simply by causing induced hypoglycemia?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 6:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,

Your synopsis is in direct support of why when I added CoQ10 to my dietary supplements I was able to become reaction free to small amounts of MSG.

In his book, Dr. Russell concentrates on the damage caused to the hypothalamus portion of the brain by the action of these Excitotoxins on neuron cells. But throughout the book mention is made to overall cellular damage caused by these Excitotoxins and the many heretofore unrelated diseases that may be attributed to their action at a cellular level.

In my opinion that is where the battle is taking place -- at the cellular level. The book describes how these Excitotoxins work by creating a chain reaction of neurons being stimulated via excessive free glutamate in the areas surrounding the cells. Free glutamate in normal concentrations is in fact required for normal cellular function, but when it is added to our systems via food additives, it grows to toxic levels. The cells become overly excited and are damaged or die. Amazingly this overly excited state of the cells is what fools our brains into thinking the foods that we are eating taste better or sweeter.

Allow me to list some links to our common A-Fib symptoms by talking about A-Fib at the cellular level. We all know that the proper firing of neuron cells is an integral part of maintaining proper heart rates and regular heartbeats. The most normal reason for a heart rate to increase is by the action of adrenaline. There is no natural reason for a heart to want to beat irregularly. So if there was a substance that caused neuron cells to fire more rapidly and erratically, the assumed affect would be faster than normal heart rates and irregular heartbeats.

Many people on this and other A-Fib sites have written about supplementing their diets with Vitamin B complex, magnesium, potassium, the amino acid Taurine and Co Enzyme Q10. These supplements are touted to help relieve or control the A-Fib occurrences. If you look at the cellular level, you will note that Vitamin B complex, magnesium, potassium, the amino acid Taurine help the cells get rid of the free radicals that would normally kill the cell affected by excessive free glutamate. Co Enzyme Q10 helps in the production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) which is the cell's source of energy and which is required for the cell to defend itself from the inflow of free glutamate.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 11:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent, Tom. Well written and easy to understand. Hope others visiting this board who suffer from A-Fib problems can make the glutamate connection by reading what you have posted here.
Judy
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 12:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, you make a lot of sense to me. I am not articulate or knowledgeable like you, however, I too take magnesium and I do take COQ10 and B6. Taurine seems to have neglible effect and I quit the potassium as I feared it might be a problem. When I take the B6 that is within my allergy-free vitamin supplement (that includes numerous vitamins) and the COQ10 I find I do not wake in the middle of the night with the flight-fright sensation. You all, keep on writing....and, someone let me know...is there appropriate computer backup for all this dialog? This is 'good' stuff that many of us need to refer to.
Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 1:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, what brand of "allergy free" vitamins are you taking? Same question for the CoQ10, magnesium, and the B6. I may try this myself.
Judy
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 3:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anon: I take TwinLab Allergy Multi Caps...(dose is 2; I take 1 daily: VitC 333mg (555% daily value); D 133IU, (33%); E 133IU (444%); Thiamin, 8.3mg (555%); B2 8.3mg (490%); Niacin 33.3mg (167%); B6 16.6mg (833%); Folic Acid 133 mcg (33%); Biotin 50mcg (17%); Pantothenic Acid 16.7mg (167%); Calcium 333mg (33%); Iron 3.3mg (18%); Magnesium 167mg (42%); Zinc 10mg (67%); Selenium 66.7 mcg (95%); Copper 667mcg (33%); Manganese 3.3 mg (165%); Chromium 66.7mg (56%); Molybdenum 167mcg (223%); Chloride 30mg (<2%); potassium 30mg (<2%). Repeat...dose is 2, I take 1 daily. Also, only if I awaken in mid night with heart palpitations I take 1 Spring Valley Natural Magnesium with chelated zinc 133mg (33%)...takes about 20-25 minutes to kick in. Each a.m. along with Allergy Cap I take one TwinLab Ultra COQ10 100mg. That is 100mg. Costs about $1 a capsule. I am fairly sensitive to capsules but these do NOT bother me. In addition I take synthroid (my doctor gives me a higher dosage and I split the cap in two) and I take premarin in low dose. For huge emergencies I will take one Benedryl when going to bed without the magnesium. And for the very worst of cases I take one aspirin. Never, never do I take the benedyl, magnesium and aspirin all in one night. Most nights I take none of these but I always, always take the multicap, the COQ10 and my premarin and synthroid at the same time each a.m. The COQ10 requires fat so I have rice milk or a handful of nuts or an egg. Frankly, I don't know if it's the COQ10 or the multicap that helps or if it is the combination. But I'm too chicken to experiment. I quit both at once and took a nosedive and I started both back at once. I cannot eat bread or pasta except once a week. I have one glass of milk a week. Strangely, I have a beer about 3 nights a week. (Some small blessings in this world). In general I feel great physically and emotionally. I always say I eat better than any caveman or woman but my diet is pretty whole and natural.
Connie
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 10:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy,

You might want to check this link that indicates calcium prevents absorbion of thyroid medicine:
http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/howto/htthyroid-drugs.htm

Of course, if you've taken it like this for a while and switch, you may end up absorbing too much medicine...but its something to think about.
Judy
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 12:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Connie: Thank you for the link. I'll keep it in my favorites. Certainly, I'll change the way I take the Synthroid now; probably in the a.m. before I get out of bed and then take other stuff with breakfast. Great. With the calcium, I take one capsule which equals 167mg or 17% Daily Dose (I don't know if that's RDA or DRI or what but anyway it appears not to be major). And you are right, if all is working for me I will choose not to switch. Thank you again. (I hope all continues on this site. What is presented by you-all is so valuable to me and to others...it's such 'good' info, I hope it is being computer-saved somehow. I'm on the steepest learning curve of my life.)
Carol H
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 2:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting, Tom

That does seem to explain the CoQ10 link. Energy is key for the brain's optimum functioning, and you can't get more basic than ATP.

Just to recap about the other "antidotes" :
Taurine would only help those who have trouble making taurine (which regulates heartbeat) from available cysteine (due to glutamate's interference with cysteine).
B6 helps the body make taurine, and also get rids of MSG by helping turn it into GABA.
If someone's sensitivity is due to other causes in addition to taurine or Vitamin B6 deficiency, then they may need extra help, like CoQ10.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 2:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol,

You may remember a post I made of correspondence with Dr. Peter Langsjoen, a proponent of CoQ10. I received replies from his wife, but an excerpt of my original letter to him is below. Please note that the foods that are highest in providing natural CoQ10 are those foods that we are advised against eating in today's society.

Also, when I reread your posting above, I realized the connection you were trying to establish. If you deplete the body of available energy because MSG ingestion causes the rise in insulin which in turn causes the drop in available glucose, this drop in glucose (cellular energy) would cause glutamate to exist in dangerous concentrations in the synapses area between the brain cells. There would be no need to prove a "Blood brain barrier" compromise because we are not saying that the MSG has crossed this barrier - we are saying that the MSG has depleted cellular energy to the point that normal levels of glutamate become toxic.

Good theory. Maybe we need to share this with Dr. Blaylock to fight the FDA's claim that MSG can't cross the "Blood brain barrier".

*************

Dr. Peter Langsjoen,

If you will forgive my intrusion, I would like to comment on and seek some information regarding your Introduction to Coenzyme Q10.

"Karl Folkers takes the position that the dominant source of CoQ10 in man is biosynthesis. This complex, 17 step process, requiring at least seven vitamins (vitamin B2 - riboflavin, vitamin B3 - niacinamide, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin C, and pantothenic acid) and several trace elements, is, by its nature, highly vulnerable. Karl Folkers argues that suboptimal nutrient intake in man is almost universal and that there is subsequent secondary impairment in CoQ10 biosynthesis. This would mean that average or "normal" levels of CoQ10 are really suboptimal and the very low levels observed in advanced disease states represent only the tip of a deficiency "ice berg". "

"All metabolically active tissues are highly sensitive to a deficiency of CoQ10. CoQ10's function as a free radical scavenger only adds to the protean manifestations of CoQ10 deficiency."


Is it possible that normal levels of CoQ10 are being produced, but are being compromised (used up) by some other substance that is robbing the cells of energy? This substance (I will call Excitotoxins) could be forcing the cells to use excessive energy first to eliminate free glutamate and then to counter the free radicals created in damaged cells? In the cases of added Monosodium Glutamate and Aspartame to food products either intentionally or as a byproduct, the majority of the industrialized nations' population is affected.

"Increased body consumption of CoQ10 is the presumed cause of low blood CoQ10 levels seen in excessive exertion, hypermetabolism, and acute shock states. " "CoQ10 is particularly high in organ meats such as heart, liver and kidney, as well as beef, soy oil, sardines, mackerel, and peanuts"

The current dietary recommendations advise against fat consumption. Many food products produced to capitalize on this advice replace fat and its savory flavor with MSG (free glutamate) producing flavor & texture additives. At the same time people are advised to refrain from eating the very foods where CoQ10 is naturally present.

"In 1958, Professor Karl Folkers and coworkers at Merck, Inc., determined the precise chemical structure of CoQ10: 2,3 dimethoxy-5 methyl-6 decaprenyl benzoquinone (Fig. 1), synthesized it, and were the first to produce it by fermentation. "

We MSG reaction sufferers have been told that it is the fermentation process used to create MSG and other products that causes excessive free glutamate in our foods. Ancient Asian cultures used to boil seaweed to create the "natural" flavor-enhancing product that we commonly call MSG today. But today's fermentation process uses a variety of other foodstuffs as a base and is far from chemically similar to the original. Thus as we ingest these free glutamate laden foodstuffs we end up robbing our body's cell structures of the very nutrients we are trying to consume. Are we sure the current CoQ10 manufacturing process is not also creating free glutamate? Could this be why it is seen that higher doses are more affective?

"By the mid-1970's, the Japanese perfected the industrial technology to produce pure CoQ10 in quantities sufficient for larger clinical trials. All CoQ10 available today in the United States is manufactured in Japan and is distributed by a number of companies who place the CoQ10 either in pressed tablets, powder-filled capsules, or oil-based gelcaps. CoQ10 is fat-soluble and absorption is significantly improved when it is chewed with a fat-containing food."

Is it a coincidence that the largest manufacturers of MSG and CoQ10 are the Japanese?
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 12:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My thoughts on the glutamate and food industries' (and the FDA's) assertion that dietary glutamate does not cross the blood brain barrier:

IF the BBB keeps glutamate out of the brain so successfully, then HOW does glutamate -- which is necessary for brain function (in small amounts) -- get into the brain? Is it manufactured by the brain itself from other substances (such as GABA or glutathione)? Why and how would the BBB selectively screen for glutamate, when it is a natural and essential neurotransmitter which is omnipresent? How is the proper balance maintained to ensure proper functioning while preventing neurotoxicity? Does the BBB let glutamate in when and as needed until the proper level is reached and then some chemical reaction closes the barrier? Suddenly I find the whole proposition preposterous, logically and practically speaking. ? :( ?

I can see the BBB's purpose being to keep out foreign, non-body substances that can harm the brain, but not something that is necessary to brain functioning. Just my $.02 for the day.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb S.,

Your thinking is correct to a degree, but let me put a different twist to it (one which I think Carol alluded to previously).

Let’s accept the argument that MSG itself does not cross the blood brain barrier to certain parts of the brain. But it has been proven that glutamic acid receptors exist on many other unprotected brain cells as well as nerve cells associated with other body organs. When MSG is overstimulating these other cells, the cells are draining the system of vital energy resources. This energy drain allows for an increase in insulin a drop in blood sugar and puts cells in the supposedly “protected” areas of the brain in an energy shortage situation. It could be that at this point “normal” levels of glutamic acid already there become too much for these energy starved cells. And without sufficient energy these cells too fall prey to glutamate.

I would venture to say that people who are hypoglycemic suffer glutamic acid brain cell damage with regularity.
Judy T
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 2:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom: Do you think that CoQ10 helps to 'strengthen' or give energy to cells to fight off the damage of glutamic acid? Actually, I take the CoQ10 still but remember your thoughts about the composition and processes that might go into them. I have stopped all vitamins as I have been getting a lot better...I'm still on a non-processed food diet and I feel more together and healthier each day. What are your thoughts?
M-Y
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 3:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was just thinking....Did these sensitivies that are be experienced start after everyone got on the vitamin craze?
Ruth
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 5:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have never taken vitamins (I am 54), and I can
definitely say that the cause of my sensitivities are food related-msg, sulfites, and tyramine. But if anybody really does discover a little pill that would cure these headaches, I'll be the first to try it.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 10:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y,
I think in trying to heal ourselves many of us turned to anything, including vitamins to help. I think the answer is that the MSG came first, then the vitamins. Remember years ago, when everyone was taking tryptophan? They were looking for a natural downer to counteract the anxiety they probably felt due to other things in their diet - like MSG.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 7:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T,

Yes I think the CoQ10 has added more than an ounce of prevention in limiting the affects of ingestion of foods with natural glutamic acid and foods with added MSG.

I used to dread going out of town on business trips knowing that any slip up would leave me sitting in my hotel room suffering or even force me to miss important meetings. Since including CoQ10 into my regimine of supplements I have been on five different, rather lengthy trips and have had only one case of high dose MSG ingestion that affected me enough to set me back for three days.

Luckily this ingestion occurred at the end of one trip and I was able to recoup at home. And it occurred because of my own stupidity. I got over confident in the benefit of the CoQ10 and ordered clam chowder -- before I finished the bowl the affects hit me like a brick.

If you recall, when I reported my first experiences with CoQ10, I started corresponding with Dr. Peter Langsjoen's wife. Dr. Peter Langsjoen is associated with the International Coenzyme Ql0 Association. I was seeking any research information the association had with regard to CoQ10 and MSG. In that correspondence, the good Doctor's wife admitted the potential link and even stated that her husband was known to be MSG sensitive and had not had any reactions since he began his own CoQ10 regimine.

So here you have a Doctor who concentrates his efforts on the benefits of CoQ10 to overall cell function by providing a suffient energy source, but does not realize what is depleting the energy available to the cells in the first place.

Its ironic that the more we eat of this junk, the more we deprive our cells of the energy they need and in essense we are eating ourselves to death. But as Carol states an ounce of prevention costs a lot less than a pound of cure and thus the profit potential dictates the marketplace from food production to health industry.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 10:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Until last year I never took a vitamin in my life...not even the vitamins or other supplements I was supposed to take in three pregnancies. For me, the msg preceded my quest for finding out what could help me when I was having an 'attack'. I take 100 mg daily of CoQ10 for probably 5 months now and will continue for a time. I am no longer hypoglycemic (or reactive hypoglycemic), my thyroid medication is low and am having tests to reevaluate dose (maybe should be increased). I eat a really caveman-like diet and am being tested for celiac spru (which won't show a thing I bet because I've been clean for a year. I'll eat a bunch of gluten and wheat for a week before the test...wow! this will be different for me...and go from there). But the best is that, for whatever reason, I feel like I am inside my own body again. I don't get the terrible mind confusion, I don't get the rage/sadness, I don't stumble when I walk, the arthritis and flu symptoms are gone. So, I will indeed hang onto the CoQ10 because I'm afraid to not take it for a while longer.
Thank you Tom for your thoughts. Talk to us regularly, will you, about your ideas about CoQ10. Others out there that use CoQ10, will you share your ideas and experiences as well? I wouldn't dare talk to my doctors about this. They haven't a clue about excitotoxins and look at me like I have two heads and then they dismiss me as the little ole lady who needs to get a life. Yeah, that's just what I want...to get a quality life and keep it.
M-Y
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 3:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you all for your input. I haven't tried CoQ10 but I will now.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 7:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, don't the Japanese rely heavily on CoQ10? They are also heavy MSG users.
Kevin
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 3:56 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,
Do you mind if I ask, what is your regimine of supplements taken? I believe I did read this before. It may have been on the old site. Thanks for your time.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 8:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,

Yes, the Japanese have used CoQ10 extensively. In fact I brought this up to the International Coenzyme Ql0 Association about MSG & CoQ10 having the same origin. It's like one country creating a cheap disease and supplying its own expensive cure. Pretty nifty marketing approach. We taught them a lot after the war.

Kevin,

As I have listed before below are the:

SUPPLEMENTS I AM TAKING

NAME Pill Size Dosage Frequency

Taurine 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 750mg per 1/4 tsp.

Mag. Orotate 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 73mg per 1/4 tsp.

Vitamin B-6 25 mg 1 Daily
Mason Vitamins, INC., Miami, Fla
1,250% of the RDA It says it is free of Sodium, Wheat, Corn, Yeast, Soy, Gluten, Egg, Fragrance, Artificial Colors or Flavors and Preservatives.
Other ingredients: Croscarmellose Sodium, Lactose, Magnesium Stearate and Microcrystalline Cellulose.

Geritol Tablet 1 Daily
Complete

CoQ10 50mg capsule 4 Daily
"Member's Mark" @ Sam's Club

***********
The Taurine & Magnesium have no fillers and the addition of the CoQ10 has allowed me some leaway in the amount of MSG containing food products I can consume without a reaction.

Tom
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 9:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, once you had this vitamin regiment in place, did you feel differently?....energy level change?...thinking ability changes?....any other noticeable changes? What are the fillers in the
CoQ10 you take, and is it in a gel cap? Thanks.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 9:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The article linked below claims that a "variant" of CoQ10, called idebenone, is more effective. It is presented, however, by a company that hawks the product, and for a substantial price.

http://www.antiaging-systems.net/idebenone.htm
Ruth
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 11:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just returned from Whole Foods Market where they have lots of different brands and forms of CoQ10. They told me to take it with vitamin E oil, but I stopped taking vitamin E because of the soy oil it was suspended in. Is there a safe combination of CoQ10 and E that has no fillers or soy oil? Thanks.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 2:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A & Ruth,

You know, I asked the International Coenzyme Ql0 Association about that too and never got their attention. I pointed out to them that my suspicion that the CoQ10 manufacturing & packaging process may be compromising the effects of CoQ10.

I stated, "Are we sure the current CoQ10 manufacturing process is not also creating free glutamate? Could this be why it is seen that higher doses are more affective?"

The ingredients listed on the CoQ10 that I take would scare most NOMSGers away, but I think the CoQ10 levels outway the levels of added MSG and thus have an overall benefit.

Ingredients: Soybean Oil, Gelatin, Glycerin, Coenzyme Q10, Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Yellow Beeswax, Lecithin, TitaniumDioxide, d-Alpha Tocopherol, Annatto, Tumeric.

In fact, below is the rather disjointed corespondence with the International Coenzyme Ql0 Association that I had copies of:

******************
International Coenzyme Ql0 Association,

I was wondering if one of your members could confirm what I feel might be a link between two theories with regard to Congestive Heart Failure (CHF).

I experience an Atrial Fibrillation (A-Fib) reaction to Monosodium Glutamate (MSG). Two years ago this reaction was sustained to the point of causing CHF because I was unaware that food products I was ingesting created MSG as a byproduct and were not labeled as such. Since finding this out on a Website at www.NOMSG.com, I have been able to successfully avoid A-Fib reactions from recurring by restricting the food products that are labeled containing the ingredients listed below. I have shared this information with a number of other A-Fib and CHF sufferers and they have experienced a similar relief of symptoms.

One of the books recommended on the NOMSG Website is "Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills" by Dr. Russell Blaylock. In this book he writes about the damaging affects of excess glutamate on neuron cells and the relationship of the high-energy phosphate, adenosine triphosphate (ATP) which he states is needed to remove this excess glutamate.

It would seem that your Coenzyme Ql0 would help reduce this cell damage. Especially since Dr. Blaylock's assumption for those who suffer neuron damage from MSG is that their blood-brain barrier has been compromised.

One question that was not answered on your very informative Website was where in the body that Coenzyme Ql0 is biosynthesized. Comments in the NOMSG forum section seem to be relating a link between inefficient liver function and the sensitivity to MSG. Some sufferers have found that supplementation of Vitamins B6 & B12, Taurine and Magnesium are helpful in countering the MSG reactions. Are these some of the vitamins, amino acids and trace elements needed for the body to biosynthesize Coenzyme Ql0 properly?

Please respond to my home e-mail address.

Sincerely,

Tom Fernstrom
Tfernstrom@aol.com

************************
These ALWAYS contain MSG:

· Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)
· Hydrolyzed Protein: (plant, vegetable, any kind)
· Sodium or Calcium Caseinate
· Autolyzed Yeast, Yeast Extract
· Yeast Food, Yeast Nutrient
· Textured Protein
· Glutamic Acid
· Monopotassium Glutamate
· Gelatin

These OFTEN contain MSG or create MSG during processing:

· NATURAL FLAVORS, flavoring, flavors, Natural "anything" flavor.
· Bouillon or Stock
· Broth (chicken, beef, any kind)
· Carrageenan
· Whey protein, whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate.
· Soy sauce, soy protein isolate, soy protein concentrate.
· Malt Extract or Flavoring, Malted Barley
· Maltodextrin
· anything Protein fortified
· anything Fermented
· anything Ultra Pasteurized
· anything Enzyme-modified
************************

Known MSG reactions include:

CARDIAC: Arrhythmias, Extreme drop in blood pressure, Rapid heartbeat (tachycardia); Angina; Cardiac Arrest Symptoms.

CIRCULATORY: Swelling, Fluid Retention.

NEUROLOGICAL: Depression, Mood Swings, Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD); Dizziness; Light-headedness; Disorientation; Mental Confusion; Anxiety; Panic Attacks; Hyperactivity; Behavioral Problems in Children; Rage Episodes; Lethargy; Sleepiness; Insomnia; Numbness or Paralysis; Migraine Headache; Slurred Speech; Meniere's Disease; Tinnitus, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's.

GASTROINTESTINAL: Nausea; Vomiting; Diarrhea; Stomach Cramps; Irritable Bowel; Bloating.

RESPIRATORY: Asthma; Shortness of Breath; Chest Pain; Tightness; Runny Nose; Sneezing.

SKIN: Hives or Rash; Mouth Lesions; Temporary Tightness or Partial Paralysis; Numbness of Tingling of the Skin; Flushing; Sweating ("hot flashes"); Dry Mouth.

UROLOGICAL: Swelling of Prostate; Nocturia.

VISUAL: Blurred Vision; Difficulty Focusing; Temporary Loss of Vision.


INTERNET SITES DEDICATED TO EXPOSURE OF THIS TOXIC SUBSTANCE:

http://www.nomsg.com/
http://www.nomsg.com/discus/
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/
http://www.msgmyth.com/


****************

From: Littarru [mailto:littarru@popcsi.unian.it]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 4:32 AM
To: FERNSTROM, TOM (AIT)
Subject:


Dear Mr. Fernstrom,

Thank you very much for your letter. Theoretically there could be a link between bioenergetics and relieving some effects of MSG. CoQ10 is definitely involved in the synthesis of ATP and therefore it could minimise some of the side effects that you mention. Regarding your specific question I can answer that CoQ10 is biosynthesized almost in every cell of the body; it is transported also in the blood but it is not clear if this represents exchange of CoQ10 between the liver and other tissues. Presently we cannot exclude it.

Vitamin B6 and B12 are involved in the biosynthesis of CoQ10, as they are important in the methylation processes.

I would suggest you to also consult Dr. Langsjoen. You can find his email in the website. You can also mention my answer to your letter.

Yours sincerely,

Gian Paolo Littarru

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Dear Dr. Peter Langsjoen,
On the advice of Professor Gian Paolo Littarru (see above) I am addressing some questions with regard to CoQ10. I hope you can find time to consult on this issue since there are so many of us who are adversely affected by MSG and other Excitotoxins. If CoQ10 could help alleviate the cell damage potential, it could help sustain us until our fight to have these excitotoxins removed from our food supply is won.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Sincerely,

Tom Fernstrom
Tfernstrom@aol.com
*********************
Dr. Peter Langsjoen,

If you will forgive my intrusion, I would like to comment on and seek some information regarding your Introduction to Coenzyme Q10.

"Karl Folkers takes the position that the dominant source of CoQ10 in man is biosynthesis. This complex, 17 step process, requiring at least seven vitamins (vitamin B2 - riboflavin, vitamin B3 - niacinamide, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin C, and pantothenic acid) and several trace elements, is, by its nature, highly vulnerable. Karl Folkers argues that suboptimal nutrient intake in man is almost universal and that there is subsequent secondary impairment in CoQ10 biosynthesis. This would mean that average or "normal" levels of CoQ10 are really suboptimal and the very low levels observed in advanced disease states represent only the tip of a deficiency "ice berg". "

"All metabolically active tissues are highly sensitive to a deficiency of CoQ10. CoQ10's function as a free radical scavenger only adds to the protean manifestations of CoQ10 deficiency."

Is it possible that normal levels of CoQ10 are being produced, but are being compromised (used up) by some other substance that is robbing the cells of energy? This substance (I will call Excitotoxins) could be forcing the cells to use excessive energy first to eliminate free glutamate and then to counter the free radicals created in damaged cells? In the cases of added Monosodium Glutamate and Aspartame to food products either intentionally or as a byproduct, the majority of the industrialized nations' population is affected.

"Increased body consumption of CoQ10 is the presumed cause of low blood CoQ10 levels seen in excessive exertion, hypermetabolism, and acute shock states. " "CoQ10 is particularly high in organ meats such as heart, liver and kidney, as well as beef, soy oil, sardines, mackerel, and peanuts"

The current dietary recommendations advise against fat consumption. Many food products produced to capitalize on this advice replace fat and its savory flavor with MSG (free glutamate) producing flavor & texture additives. At the same time people are advised to refrain from eating the very foods where CoQ10 is naturally present.

"In 1958, Professor Karl Folkers and coworkers at Merck, Inc., determined the precise chemical structure of CoQ10: 2,3 dimethoxy-5 methyl-6 decaprenyl benzoquinone (Fig. 1), synthesized it, and were the first to produce it by fermentation. "

We MSG reaction sufferers have been told that it is the fermentation process used to create MSG and other products that causes excessive free glutamate in our foods. Ancient Asian cultures used to boil seaweed to create the "natural" flavor-enhancing product that we commonly call MSG today. But today's fermentation process uses a variety of other foodstuffs as a base and is far from chemically similar to the original. Thus as we ingest these free glutamate laden foodstuffs we end up robbing our body's cell structures of the very nutrients we are trying to consume. Are we sure the current CoQ10 manufacturing process is not also creating free glutamate? Could this be why it is seen that higher doses are more affective?

(Tom Fernstrom's NOTE: It is assumed that the levels of CoQ10 provided by the manufacturing process are greater the the subsequent reduction of benefits by the MSG laden additives of the packaging process and thus higher doses show greater benefits)

"By the mid-1970's, the Japanese perfected the industrial technology to produce pure CoQ10 in quantities sufficient for larger clinical trials. All CoQ10 available today in the United States is manufactured in Japan and is distributed by a number of companies who place the CoQ10 either in pressed tablets, powder-filled capsules, or oil-based gelcaps. CoQ10 is fat-soluble and absorption is significantly improved when it is chewed with a fat-containing food."

Is it a coincidence that the largest manufacturers of MSG and CoQ10 are the Japanese?

Thank you for allowing me to comment.

Sincerely,
Tom Fernstrom
Tfernstrom@aol.com

*********************
CoQ10 Conclusions

In summary, coenzyme Q10 is a deceptively simple molecule which lies at the center of mitochondrial ATP production and appears to have clinically relevant antioxidant properties manifested by tissue protection in settings of ischemia and reperfusion. Congestive heart failure has served as a model for measurable deficiency of CoQ10 in blood and tissue, which when corrected, results in improved myocardial function. Ischemic heart disease, anginal syndromes, and most recently the ischemia reperfusion injury of coronary revascularization has provided clear evidence of clinically relevant antioxidant cell protective effects of CoQ10. Newer P31 NMR spectroscopy studies such as those conducted by Whitman's group in Philadelphia have documented enhanced cellular high energy phosphate concentrations with CoQ10 supplementation in models of ischemia and reperfusion [13]. Sophisticated biochemical markers of oxidative injury are now demonstrating in-vivo the antioxidant cell protective effects of CoQ10. Upon review of the 30 years of clinical publications on CoQ10 and the author's own clinical experience, it is clear that there are several consistent and unique characteristics of the clinical effects of CoQ10 supplementation which are worthy of discussion and may for simplicity be termed the "Q effect". The benefits of CoQ10 supplementation are likely not due solely to a correction of deficiency in so far as clinical improvements are frequently seen in patients with "normal" pre-treatment CoQ10 blood levels and optimum clinical benefit requires above normal CoQ10 blood levels (2 to 4 times higher). High blood levels may be required to attain an elevation of tissue CoQ10 levels or to rescue defective mitochondrial function perhaps by driving cytosolic glycolysis or the plasma membrane oxidoreductase or by directly enhancing the function of defective mitochondria. There is almost always a delay in the onset of clinical change of one to four weeks and a further delay in maximal clinical benefit of several months. Possible reasons for this delay include time to attain adequate tissue levels of CoQ10 or time to synthesize CoQ10-dependent apoenzymes. Supplemental CoQ10 appears to affect much more than just cardiac myocytes and many aspects of patients' health tend to improve which cannot be explained by the observed improvement in heart function. CoQ10 does not lend itself to traditional organ-specific or disease-specific strategy and requires a reassessment and a rethinking of medical theory and practice. The combination of the ready availability of pure crystalline CoQ10 in quantity from the Japanese pharmaceutical industry and increasingly sophisticated and standardized methodology to directly measure CoQ10 in both blood and tissue, brings us to a point where we can more readily and accurately expand upon the preceding 30 years of pioneering clinical work on this extraordinary molecule.

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Co-Q-10 is necessary for energy production in every cell of the human body. This naturally occurring, vitamin like substance is found primarily in the heart. If body levels start dropping, so does our general health. Scientists estimate that once levels drop below the 25% deficiency level, many disease states begin to flourish including high blood pressure, heart attack, angina, immune depression, periodontal disease, lack of energy, weight gain and even early death.

Co-Q-10 and Energy

Co-Q-10 is also known as ubiquinone. It is a member of the quinone cyclic compounds that may be considered a relative of some potent anti-cancer drugs. Co-Q-10 can add or remove oxygen from biologically active molecules. Every cell of the body contains many subcellular components called mitochondria, which produce 95% of the total energy of the body. Co-Q-10 is an integral part of the membranes of the mitochondria where it is involved in the production of ATP, the basic energy producing molecules of the cells.

The Heart and Blood pressure

Co-Q-10 can be synthesized within the body, none the less deficiency states have been reported. Deficiency could be a result of impaired CoQ10 synthesis due to nutritional deficiencies, a genetic or acquired defect in CoQ10 synthesis, or increased tissue needs. Cardiovascular diseases, including angina, hypertension, mitral valve prolapse and congestive heart failure are examples of diseases which require increased tissue levels of CoQ10. CoQ10 deficiency is common in individuals with heart disease. Heart tissue biopsies of patients with various heart diseases showed a CoQ10 deficiency in 50-75 % of cases. Being one of the most metabolically active tissues in the body, the heart may be unusually susceptible to the effects of a CoQ10 deficiency. Accordingly CoQ10 has shown great promise in the treatment of heart disease. In one study 12 patients with stable angina pectoris were treated with CoQ10 (150mg/day x 4 weeks) in a double-blind crossover trial. Compared to the placebo, CoQ10 reduced the frequency of angina attacks by 53%. In addition, there was a significant increase in treadmill exercise tolerance (time to onset of chest pain and time to development of electrocardiogram abnormalities) during CoQ10
treatment. The results of this study and others suggest that CoQ10 is a safe and effective treatment for angina pectoris and other heart disease.

Co-Q-10 and Weight Loss

It has been shown at the University of Texas and the University of Antwerp, Belgium, that obese people can lose weight simply with the addition of CoQ10 to the diet. This research showed that obese people could have as much as a 50% deficiency of CoQ10 in their tissues. People who eat a lot and yet stay slim have significantly higher levels of CoQ10 in their blood. This great nutrient can increase metabolic fuel efficiency within your cells stimulating natural weight loss.

C0Q10 and Periodontal Health

CoQ10 exerts its protective and strengthening action in all tissues. Working from the cellular level, it strengthens the gums as well as the heart muscle. Many scientists believe that periodontal (gum) disease is a good indicator of low levels of CoQ10 in other tissues. The American Dental Assn., states that at least 87% of the American population has some sort of gum disease. This has been shown to be somewhat related to nutrition and particularly to levels of CoQ10, which has been shown to have a good protective effect on gum tissue.

The C0Q10 Family

There are at least 10 common C0-Qs; that is, different sized molecules from C0Q-1 to C0Q-10. The liver can utilize other C0-Qs to make C0Q10. If the liver is not functioning efficiently, body levels can be too low, especially with advancing age or if disease is present. Our internal ability to produce C0Q10 declines with age, and as we get older, we must rely more on our diet. Since most people do not eat the perfect diet we must rely on supplementation to ensure wellness.

Is C0Q10 Safe?

In tests of thousands of people, no toxicity has ever been shown no matter how high the amount. Plants and animals get it from the soil, but we get it from the plants and animals that contain various C0-Qs. Taking a supplement, for most people, would seem to be the best way and to know you are getting adequate coverage of C0Q10.
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 3:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,

Great work!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Tom,

I recently started taking a CoQ10 100mg capsule a day, after a much smaller dose seemed to have no effect. I never realized that my mitral valve prolapse could be giving me a CoQ10 deficiency and making me more sensitive to MSG.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 2:02 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bought some CoQ10 last night, Tom. I'll let you know how it goes :)
Judy T
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 11:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, Thank you again. In renewing my supply of CoQ10 100mg, I noticed the wide array available at Wild Oats. One was a liquid and had "natural orange flavor" but no gelatin, etc. I did not get it because it has to be refrigerated upon opening and I travel too much for that. However, just wanted to mention that it does come in liquid form in addition to pressed and capsule and gelatin capsule.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 3:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,

I think I may have had some luck with the CoQ10. I went out to eat last night after taking 50 mg. The chef put butter on my potato. I scooped the big lump off, and ate what had melted - feeling a little adventurous. Normally, I 'd wake up the next day with a big swollen puffy face. I still got the lowered blood pressure from the allergic reaction, but there was no swelling this time. Very interesting. I had to visit the ladies room quite often since I started taking it, as there was an initial diuretic effect. My fingers, which are usually swollen from water retention aren't any more either. Inflammation is involved somehow again in this whole mess.....
DJ
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 2:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everyone..
Having serious problems the past few days reacting to natural glutamate....is taking this CoQ10 suppose to help this....? I am a little confused. I shop at Fresh Fields in Jenkintown, Pa, it is a whole foods market. What form of CoQ10 should I ask for? Thanks
DJ
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 6:51 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,

One of the side affects of CoQ10 is improved blood viscocity which means that people taking blood thinners such as Coumadin may have to watch dosages and blood levels much closer.

I too have not had many instances of the swelling I used to experience when my heart was not pumping properly and just attributed it to fewer episodes of MSG triggered A-Fib and the fact that I am still trying to stay true to my Low Carbohydrate diet (which is sometimes called the purging diet for the way it purges the system of excess fluids). But perhaps the CoQ10 is affecting that too.

Also, I think the levels of CoQ10 build over time and that the constant supply regimine is required to have the best affect. it is not a supplement that would be for preventative use just when MSG ingestine is anticipated.

DJ,

Per my above synopsis, I chose to purchase my CoQ10 supply from Sam's Club because in the quantities I think are necessary to take in order to see the benefits, it was the cheapest. Next time I go there, I will check their supplies closer and see if I can get a brand that has less fillers that may contain potential MSG as a byproduct. CoQ10 is absorbed best taken with fat and that is why I was taking the gel caps instead of the tablets (the fats are supposed to be in the gel caps).

If I recall correctly, Dr. Peter Langsjoen's wife indicated that the good doctor was taking 250 mg of CoQ10 per day. She did not mention how he arrived at this dosage, but I have since seen some studies indicating more benefits at higher dosages. Per my regimine, I am at 200 mg per day. If I can find a CoQ10 brand that does not have the potential MSG fillers, I might find better results or be able to reduce dosage.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 6:56 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

I appologize for posting this rather large post here, but the information contained about CoQ10 may be of benefit to all. Perhaps Mike could move these postings to an area dedicated to CoQ10 and thus we can have this information easily available for referrence.

Tom

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Peter H. Langsjoen, M.D., F.A.C.C.and Alena M.
Langsjoen, M.S.
1107 Doctors Drive, Tyler, Texas 75701, USA
Tel:(903) 595-3778
CoQ10, Coenzyme Q10 and: Ubiquinone, Cardiovascular Disease, Heart Failure, Hyper-tension, Ischemia, Diastolic Dysfunction, Angina, Cardiac Surgery, HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors.
Abstract: The clinical experience in cardiology with CoQ10 includes studies on congestive heart failure, ischemic heart disease, hypertensive heart disease, diastolic dysfunction of the left ventricle, and reperfusion injury as it relates to coronary artery bypass graft surgery.
The CoQ10-lowering effect of HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors and the potential adverse consequences are of growing concern. Supplemental CoQ10 alters the natural history of cardiovascular illnesses and has the potential for prevention of cardiovascular disease through the inhibition of LDL cholesterol oxidation and by the maintenance of optimal cellular and mitochondrial function throughout the ravages of time and internal and external stresses.
The attainment of higher blood levels of CoQ10 (>3.5microg/ml) with the use of higher doses of CoQ10 appears to enhance both the magnitude and rate of clinical improvement. In this communication, 34 controlled trials and several open-label and long-term studies on the clinical effects of CoQ10 in cardiovascular diseases are reviewed.
Background Since the discovery of the vitamin-like nutrient coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinone, CoQ10) by Frederick Crane et al. in 1957 [10] and by other investigators [57], and since the first patients with heart failure were treated with coenzyme Q by Yuichi Yamamura [87-89], there has been a slow but steady accumulation of worldwide clinical experience with CoQ10 in heart disease over the ensuing 30 years.
CoQ10 is a coenzyme for the inner mitochondrial enzyme complexes involved in oxidative phosphorylation. [44,45,49]. This bioenergetic effect of CoQ10 is believed to be of fundamental importance in its clinical application, particularly as relates to cells with exceedingly high metabolic demands such as cardiac myocytes.
The second fundamental property of CoQ10 involves its antioxidant (free radical scavenging) functions [5,15,62,82]. CoQ10 is the only known naturally occurring lipid soluble antioxidant for which the body has enzyme systems capable of regenerating the active reduced ubiquinol form [15].
CoQ10 is known to be closely linked to Vitamin E and serves to regenerate the reduced (active) a-tocopherol form of Vitamin E [9]. Other aspects of CoQ10 function include its involvement in extramitochondrial electron transfer, e.g. plasma membrane oxidoreductase activity [41,82], involvement in cytosolic glycolysis [41,46,48], and potential activity in both Golgi apparatus and lysosomes [11,12]. CoQ10 also plays a role in improvement in membrane fluidity [42,43,62] as evidenced by a decrease in blood viscosity with CoQ10 supplementation [29].
The rationale behind the use of CoQ10 in heart failure has focused primarily on the correction of a measurable deficiency of CoQ10 in both blood and myocardial tissue with the degree of CoQ10 deficiency correlating directly with the degree of impairment in left ventricular function [55]. CoQ10 supplementation corrects measurable deficiencies of CoQ10 in blood and tissue [16,17,30,31,34,47,55].
Exogenous CoQ10 is taken up by CoQ10-deficient cells and can be demonstrated to be incorporated into the mitochondria [59]. The role of free radicals in cell injury and in cell death in settings of ischemia and reperfusion is becoming increasingly well established. CoQ10’s antioxidant properties and its location within the mitochondria (the center of free radical production) make it an obvious candidate for a potential therapeutic agent in these situations [92].
Congestive Heart Failure Controlled Trials Since the Japanese pioneering studies in the late 1960’s, there have been at least 15 randomized controlled trials involving a total of 1,366 patients with both primary and secondary forms of myocardial failure. The first randomized controlled trial by Hashiba et al in 1972 involving 197 patients [21] documented significant improvement using 30 mg CoQ10/day. Similar observations were made in another controlled trial by Iwabuchi et al., again using 30 mg of oral CoQ10 in 38 patients with heart failure [24].
The first controlled trial in idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy in the United States was published by Per Langsjoen in 1985 using 100 mg of CoQ10 per day in 19 patients with double-blind crossover design and three month treatment periods [34]. Significant improvements were noted in ejection fraction as well as functional status. Three controlled trials in 1986 by VanFraechem et al., Judy et al. and Schneeberger et al. confirmed these findings, again using 100 mg of CoQ10 per day [25,71,81].
In 1990 Oda documented normalization of load-induced cardiac dysfunction in 40 patients with mitral valve prolapse using a double blind placebo controlled design [60]. In 1991, Rossi et al. showed significant improvement in ischemic cardiomyopathy in 20 patients using 200 mg per day [68]. Poggesi et al. documented significant improvement in myocardial function in 20 patients with either ischemic or idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathies using 100 mg of CoQ10 per day [65].
Judy et al. randomized 180 patients to receive
either 100 mg per day of CoQ10 versus placebo and
noted significant improvement in long-term
survival with patients followed up to eight years
[26]. T
The largest controlled trial to date was published in 1993 by Morisco et al, in which 641 patients were randomly assigned to receive either placebo or CoQ10 at 2 mg/kg per day in a one year double-blind trial [51]. 118 patients in the controlled group required hospitalization for heart failure in the one year follow-up compared to 73 in the CoQ10 treated group (P < 0.001).
In addition to the obvious improvement in quality of life for these patients, the reduction in hospitalization rate has strong implications in the growing problem of health care cost containment. A year later in 1994, Morisco et al. documented significant improvements in ejection fraction, stroke volume and cardiac output as measured by radio nuclide scanning in six patients treated with 150 mg of CoQ10 per day in a double-blind crossover design [52].
Lastly, in 1995, Swedberg et al. published a study on 79 patients with severe chronic congestive heart failure whose mean ejection fraction at rest was 22% +/-10% [75]. There was a slight but significant improvement in volume load ejection fraction measurement and a significant improvement in quality of life assessment. A meta analysis of controlled studies in heart failure by Soja et al. demonstrated significant improvement in measurements of cardiac function [73].
Open Label and Long Term Congestive Heart Failure Trials Dr. Yuichi Yamamura published an excellent review of all early Japanese trials prior to 1984 [91]. By mid 1980’s it became apparent that CoQ10 was safe and effective in the short-term treatment of patients with heart failure. Several long-term trials were undertaken to determine if this effect would be sustained and to determine long-term safety. In 1985, Mortensen et al. observed sustained benefit and safety in idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy on 100 mg per day of CoQ10 [53].
In 1990, we published our observations on 126 patients with dilated cardiomyopathy followed for six years, again noting sustained benefit with remarkable long-term safety and lack of side effects [35]. In 1994, Baggio et al. published the largest open trial in heart failure involving 2,664 patients treated with up to 150 mg of CoQ10 per day, again noting significant benefit and lack of toxicity [3].
Also, in 1994, we published observations on 424 patients with a broader spectrum of myocardial disease including ischemic cardiomyopathy, dilated cardiomyopathy, primary diastolic dysfunction, hypertensive heart disease, and valvular heart disease [37]. Patients were treated with an average of 240 mg of CoQ10 per day and followed for up to eight years with mean follow-up of 18 months.
We observed significant improvement in NYHA functional classification, improvement in measurements of myocardial function, an average of 50% reduction in the requirement for concomitant cardiovascular drug therapy, and a complete lack of toxicity.
Myocardial function became measurably improved within one month with maximal improvement usually obtained by six months and this improvement appears to be sustained in the majority of patients. The withdrawal of CoQ10 therapy resulted in a measurable decline in myocardial function within one month and a return to pretreatment measurements within three to six months. This return to baseline myocardial function after withdrawal of CoQ10 therapy was also observed by Mortensen et al. [54].
Diastolic Dysfunction After initial favorable observations in advanced congestive heart failure with predominant systolic dysfunction, our group and others began to look at earlier stages of myocardial dysfunction, specifically, diastolic dysfunction. This filling phase of the cardiac cycle involves the ATP-dependent clearance of calcium which in turn is required for the breaking of the actin-myosin binding.
Diastolic dysfunction often precedes more advanced stages of congestive heart failure and is commonly seen in a wide variety of clinical syndromes, including symptomatic hypertensive heart disease with left ventricular hypertrophy, symptomatic mitral valve prolapse, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the aging heart, and is often seen in fatigue states such as chronic fatigue syndrome.
In 1993, we published observations on 115 patients with isolated diastolic dysfunction - 60 with hypertensive heart disease, 27 with mitral valve prolapse syndrome, and 28 with chronic fatigue syndrome [36]. The administration of CoQ10 resulted in improvement in diastolic function, a decrease in myocardial thickness, and an improvement in functional classification. In 1994, Oda published results on 30 patients with load-induced diastolic dysfunction and documented normalization of diastolic function in all patients after CoQ10 supplementation [63].
In 1994, we published data on 109 patients with hypertensive heart disease and again noted not only improvement in NYHA functional classification and left ventricular hypertrophy, but we also observed significant improvement in diastolic function as measured by doppler echocardiography [38]. We noted improvement in blood pressure and a lessening in the requirement for antihypertensive drug therapy which occurred in tempo with the improvement in diastolic function.
In 1997, we published data on seven patients with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and again noted significant improvement in diastolic function as well as a lessening in hypertrophy and an improvement in functional status [39].
Also in 1997, we published data on 16 otherwise healthy elderly patients over the age of 80, all of whom had significant diastolic dysfunction prior to treatment and all of whom had normalization of diastolic function within three months of CoQ10 supplementation [40]. In summary, there appears to be an improvement in diastolic function in all categories of cardiac disease and this improvement occurs earlier and is more consistent than improvements in systolic function.
This is understandable given the frequent occurrence of permanent myocardial fibrosis in advanced idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy and the permanent myocardial scarring seen in advanced ischemic heart disease. Diastolic dysfunction is easily identified by non-invasive techniques and appears to be readily reversible with supplemental CoQ10 with gratifying clinical improvement.
Ischemic Heart Disease Controlled Trials Controlled trials in angina did not begin until the mid 1980’s with the first publication by Hiasa in 1984 in which 18 patients were randomized to receive either intravenous CoQ10 or placebo [22].
The treated patients showed an increase in exercise tolerance of one stage or greater in a modified Bruce protocol as compared to no increase in exercise tolerance in the placebo group, showed less ST-segment depression with exercise and experienced less angina with no alteration in heart rate or blood pressure. A year later in 1985, Kamikawa et al. studied 12 patients with chronic stable angina in a double-blind placebo controlled randomized crossover protocol using 150 mg a day of oral CoQ10 [28].
Exercise time increased significantly from 345 seconds to 406 seconds with CoQ10 treatment and time until 1 mm of ST depression increased significantly from 196 seconds to 284 seconds (P < 0.01). Again, no significant alteration in heart rate or blood pressure was observed. In 1986, Schardt et al. studied 15 patients with exercise-induced angina treated with 600 mg per day of CoQ10 with a placebo controlled double-blind crossover design [70].
Again, a significant decrease in ischemic ST-segment depression was noted with CoQ10 treatment. Since the CoQ10 treatment caused no significant alteration in heart rate or blood pressure, it was concluded that the mechanism of action was related to a direct effect on myocardial metabolism. In 1991, Wilson et al. studied 58 patients with up to 300 mg per day of CoQ10 compared to placebo and again noted significant improvement in exercise duration to the onset of angina without a change in peak rate pressure product, suggesting an improvement in myocardial efficiency [84].
Also, in 1991, Serra et al. showed significant improvement in 20 patients with chronic ischemic heart disease using 60mg of CoQ10 per day for 4 weeks, documenting improvements in myocardial function measurements, improved exercise capacity, and a significant reduction in the number of anginal episodes and nitrate consumption [72]. In 1994, Kuklinski et al. studied 61 patients with acute myocardial infarction, randomized to obtain either placebo or 100 mg of CoQ10 with 100 microg of selenium for a period of one year [32].
The treatment group showed no prolongation of the QT-interval whereas, in the placebo group, 40% showed prolongation of the corrected QT-interval of greater than 440 milliseconds (P < 0.001). Although there were no significant differences in the acute hospitalization, the one year follow-up revealed six patients (20%) in the control group died from re-infarction, whereas one patient in the treatment group suffered a noncardiac death. The prevention of QT-interval prolongation can be explained by an enhancement in myocardial bioenergetics with an improvement in sodium potassium ATPase function, thereby optimizing membrane repolarization.
LDL Cholesterol Oxidation The antioxidant properties of CoQ10 and the fact that 60 % of CoQ10 is carried in the plasma with LDL cholesterol [2], has led to investigations as to whether or not CoQ10 has any clinically relevant antioxidant function in terms of decreasing the oxidation of cholesterol [23,79]. It is generally believed that the oxidation of LDL cholesterol is of primary importance in the development of atherosclerosis.
In 1996 in Australia, Stocker’s group showed in vitro that supplemental CoQ10 prevented the pro-oxidant effect of alpha-tocopherol [78]. Supplementation with vitamin E alone resulted in an LDL which was more prone to oxidation as compared to the combination of CoQ10 and vitamin E which increased the resistance to oxidation. Alleva et al. showed that supplemental CoQ10 increased the amount of CoQ10 in LDL (especially LDL3) and lowered the peroxidizability of the LDL.

Aejmelaeus et al. documented a doubling of CoQ10 content in LDL particles after CoQ10 supplementation at 100 mg/day [1].
Statins and CoQ10 Harry Rudney was among the first to recognize the importance of HMG-CoA reductase in the biosynthesis of CoQ10. In January 1981 at the 3rd International Symposium on the Biomedical and Clinical Aspects of Coenzyme Q held in Austin, Texas, USA, he stated “... a major regulatory step in CoQ10 synthesis is at the level of HMG-CoA reductase” [69]. In 1990 Willis et al. [83] studied 40 rats and demonstrated significant tissue CoQ10 deficiency in heart and liver in the lovastatin treated rats which could easily be prevented by co-administration of CoQ10.
Later in the same year, Langsjoen et al. noted not only a decline of CoQ10 blood levels, but also a significant clinical decompensation with a reduction in ejection fraction in 5 heart failure patients after the addition of lovastatin to their standard medical therapy plus 100 mg CoQ10 per day [18].
This decompensation was reversed by a doubling of their CoQ10 dose from 100 mg to 200 mg/day. In 1992 Ghirlanda et al. showed in a double blind controller trial in 40 hypercholesterolemic patients a 40% drop in blood CoQ10 level after treatment with either pravastatin or simvastatin [19].
In 1994 Bargossi et al. randomized 30 patients to receive either 20 mg simvastatin or 20 mg simvastatin plus 100mg CoQ10 and followed them for 90 days [4]. The lowering of cholesterol was significant and similar in both groups and the simultaneous CoQ10 therapy prevented both the plasma and platelet CoQ10 depletion induced by simvastatin administration.
In 1997 Mortensen et al. observed similar reductions in serum CoQ10 levels in a placebo controlled double blind trial [56]. The authors concluded that “although HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors are safe and effective within a limited time horizon, continued vigilance of possible adverse consequences from CoQ10 lowering seems important during long term therapy”.
Also in 1997, Palomaki et al. documented a decrease in the resistance of LDL cholesterol to oxidative stress after 6 weeks of lovastatin therapy in a double blind, placebo controlled, cross over trial on 27 hypercholesterolemic men [63]. This enhanced oxidizability of LDL cholesterol is believed to be related to a decrease in the number of molecules of CoQ10 per each LDL cholesterol particle and may lessen the benefit of LDL cholesterol reduction.
The CoQ10 lowering effect of statins is now well established with a significant depletion in plasma and platelets in humans and with a significant depletion in blood, liver and heart in rats. Human skeletal muscle CoQ10 may actually increase with statin therapy as documented by a Finnish study [33] but human heart muscle tissue CoQ10 data are presently lacking and, when available, should help clarify the mechanism of clinical deterioration noted in some cardiomyopathy patients treated with statins.
The concern over the long term consequences of statin-induced CoQ10 deficiency is heightened by the rapidly increasing number of patients treated and the increasing dosages and potencies of the statin drugs. As the “target” or “ideal” cholesterol level is steadily lowered, the CoQ10-lowering effect will be more pronounced and the potential for long term adverse health effects enhanced.
Before the results of this vast human experiment become obvious over the next decade, it is incumbent upon the medical profession to more closely evaluate the clinical significance of this drug-induced CoQ10 depletion.
The combined use of CoQ10 and statins not only prevents the depletion of CoQ10, but may also enhance the benefits of the cholesterol lowering by lessening the oxidation of LDL cholesterol.
Hypertension A tendency to decrease blood pressure in patients with established hypertension has been noted as far back as 1976 by Nagano, who studied 45 patients on 30-60 mg of CoQ10 per day [58]. A year later, Yamagami published data on 29 patients using 1-2 mg of CoQ10 per kg body weight per day [86].
From 1980 through 1984, three smaller studies again showed favorable improvement in hypertension with CoQ10 supplementation [20,67,80] and in 1986, Yamagami evaluated 20 patients in randomized controlled fashion using 100 mg of CoQ10 per day and again observed a favorable effect [86].
Further uncontrolled open studies [14,38,50] all uniformly found a favorable influence on hypertension when CoQ10 supplementation was added to standard antihypertensive drug therapy. We postulate that the blood pressure lowering effect of CoQ10 may in part be an indirect effect, whereby improved diastolic function leads to a lessening in the adaptive high catecholamine state of hypertensive disease. In addition, effects on vascular endothelium may be involved. It is also possible that the blood viscosity lowering effect of CoQ10 may favorably influence hypertension [29].
Controlled Trials in Cardiovascular Surgery The first controlled study evaluating the effectiveness of CoQ10, administered preoperatively, was published by Tanaka et al. in 1982 [77]. Fifty patients undergoing heart valve replacement were randomized to receive either placebo or CoQ10 at a dose of 30-60 mg per day for six days before surgery. The treatment group showed a significantly lower incidence of low cardiac output state during the postoperative recovery period. In 1991, Sunamori et al. studied 78 patients undergoing coronary artery bypass graft surgery [74].
Sixty of these patients were given 5 mg per/kg of CoQ10 intravenously two hours prior to cardiopulmonary bypass. Postoperatively, there was a significant benefit to left ventricular stroke work index in the CoQ10 treated group as compared to controls and a significant decrease in postoperative CPK MB measurements in the treated group.
In 1993, Judy et al. studied 20 patients undergoing either coronary artery bypass surgery (16 patients) or combined bypass surgery with valve replacement (4 patients) [27]. Patients were randomized to receive either placebo or administration of oral 100 mg per day of CoQ10 for 14 days prior to surgery and continued for 30 days postoperatively.
The treatment group showed significant elevations not only in blood CoQ10 level but also in myocardial tissue CoQ10 content as measured in atrial appendage. Significant improvement in postoperative cardiac index and left ventricular ejection fraction were noted in the treatment group, and a significant shortening of the postoperative recovery time was observed. In 1994, Chello et al. randomized 40 patients to receive either placebo or 150 mg per day of oral CoQ10 one week prior to coronary artery bypass graft surgery [6].
A significant decrease in postoperative markers of oxidative damage was observed in the treatment group with lower concentrations of coronary sinus thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, conjugated dienes and cardiac isoenzymes of creatine kinase. The treatment group also showed a significantly lower incidence of ventricular arrhythmias in the recovery period and the mean dose of dopamine required to maintain stable hemodynamics was significantly lower in the CoQ10 treated group.
In 1994, Chen et al. randomized 22 patients to receive either CoQ10 or placebo prior to coronary artery bypass surgery and observed improvement in left atrial pressure and an improvement in the incidence of low cardiac output state in the postoperative period [8]. Right and left ventricular myocardial ultrastructure was better preserved in the CoQ10 treated group as compared to placebo.
In 1996, Chello randomized 30 patients to receive either placebo or 150 mg oral CoQ10 for 7 days before abdominal aortic surgery and documented a significant decrease in markers of peroxidative damage in the CoQ10 treated patients [7]. In 1996 Taggart et al. randomized 20 patients undergoing coronary revascularization surgery to receive either placebo or 600 mg of oral CoQ10 12 hours prior to operation with no significant effects observed, confirming the lack of acute pharmacologic or clinical changes with CoQ10 [76]. Typically, oral CoQ10 supplementation rarely causes measurable effect before one week and is not maximal for several months.
Conclusions In summary, coenzyme Q10 is a deceptively simple molecule which lies at the center of mitochondrial ATP production and appears to have clinically relevant antioxidant properties manifested by tissue protection in settings of ischemia and reperfusion. Congestive heart failure has served as a model for measurable deficiency of CoQ10 in blood and tissue, which when corrected, results in improved myocardial function. Ischemic heart disease, anginal syndromes, and most recently the ischemia reperfusion injury of coronary revascularization has provided clear evidence of clinically relevant antioxidant cell protective effects of CoQ10.
Newer P31 NMR spectroscopy studies such as those conducted by Whitman’s group in Philadelphia have documented enhanced cellular high energy phosphate concentrations with CoQ10 supplementation in models of ischemia and reperfusion [13]. Sophisticated biochemical markers of oxidative injury are now demonstrating in-vivo the antioxidant cell protective effects of CoQ10. Upon review of the 30 years of clinical publications on CoQ10 and the author’s own clinical experience, it is clear that there are several consistent and unique characteristics of the clinical effects of CoQ10 supplementation which are worthy of discussion and may for simplicity be termed the “Q effect”.
The benefits of CoQ10 supplementation are likely not due solely to a correction of deficiency in so far as clinical improvements are frequently seen in patients with “normal” pre-treatment CoQ10 blood levels and optimum clinical benefit requires above normal CoQ10 blood levels (2 to 4 times higher). High blood levels may be required to attain an elevation of tissue CoQ10 levels or to rescue defective mitochondrial function perhaps by driving cytosolic glycolysis or the plasma membrane oxidoreductase or by directly enhancing the function of defective mitochondria.
There is almost always a delay in the onset of clinical change of one to four weeks and a further delay in maximal clinical benefit of several months. Possible reasons for this delay include time to attain adequate tissue levels of CoQ10 or time to synthesize CoQ10-dependent apoenzymes. Supplemental CoQ10 appears to affect much more than just cardiac myocytes and many aspects of patients’ health tend to improve which cannot be explained by the observed improvement in heart function.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 7:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's an article suggesting how much coenzyme Q10 to take for variuous conditions (does not mention MSG):

http://www.yourhealthbase.com/coenzyme_Q10.html
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 2:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom - Can you share with us why you switched from CoQ10 made by Beyond a Century to the "Member's Mark" @ Sam's Club? Perhaps, Beyond a Century had too much "other stuff" in it? Thanks.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 3:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom and Roy,

I think I will continue to take 100 mg of CoQ10 per day. Today I tried several cookies at work that contained butter, that last time I ate them gave me a terrible allergic reaction. I did not have a bad reaction and I was extremely alert at work, which is unusual if I've cheated with butter. My peripheral vision has improved as well.

Also, about taking taurine and CoQ10 both. CoQ10 is a FAT soluble anti-oxidant, and taurine is a WATER soluble anti-oxidant. So with both you're pretty well covered :)
DJ
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 3:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay... didn't I just read above that COQ10 should only be taken when the injestion of msg is a possibility???

Carol H. yet you take 100 mg daily..

I would like to try this...which way is correct, to daily supplement, or not? Also, what is taurine....Thank you,

DJ
M-Y
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 4:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I received my COQ10 from Beyond a Century today.
To those who have taken it do you find it works
fine if you take it in one dose per day? I usually
take it real slow when I try something new.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 5:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGers,

Sorry if my long posts cause confusion. Let me try to summarize:

1) I take 200mg CoQ10 daily.
100mg AM and 100mg PM

2) I originally bought my CoQ10 in 30mg doses from Beyond a Century, but they were expensive and in tablet form. I wanted the gel caps and decided to look around for cheaper brands and higher dosages. One of my A-Fib sights suggested Walmart as the cheapest and I decided to buy there.

3) Yes, I recommend taking the CoQ10 daily as a regimine -- not as a occasional supplement to ward of MSG ingestion nor as a remedy for accidental ingestion. I also recommend continued abstinence from MSG and not to experiment eating MSG products while on CoQ10 too liberally because that might lead to dangerous consequences.

I do not want to sound like a salesman for CoQ10 and I wish the damages of MSG were recognized by the FDA and the need for supplements to counteract the reactions were not needed. I'm just trying to help my fellow NOMSGers.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 10:18 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom and others: Based on a discussion by Tom many months ago (maybe on the old board) I began taking 100mg of CoQ10 daily with a daily vitamin. It took many weeks to notice a change but I didn't know if it was the vitamin or CoQ10. I foolishing went off both at the same time and in two weeks starting a downward slide. I went back on both and have been continuing to improve. About three weeks ago I quit the vitamin finally and now take only the CoQ10. No, I do not increase my msg intake...I'm still on the whole food (caveman) diet but now I can eat some pasta and bread and butter and a smidge of mayonnaise or rather spread. I even had a piece of dark chocolate last week. This is remarkable for me. I also drink some milk. Best of all I feel like I am myself; not sick, not out-of-it. Is it the CoQ10 or a coincidence? I do not know. My eye doctor is amazed at the stabilizing of the acuity of my eyesight. I have had a good winter free of colds, etc. I have no heart palpitations and so do not need magnesium in the middle of the night. For now, based on my own reading and your good postings, Tom, I will continue (and may even add 50mg each evening) to my CoQ10 intake. I doubt it is a magic bullet, but I am beginning to believe that what you say is probably right...that the cells do get an energy boost that allows our bodies to do the work they should do. This is a healing universe afterall, and our bodies just need the chance to maintain or gain homeostatis. Thanks for your long postings. I understand about 2 words in 3 but I think I understand enough.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 10:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DJ,

I try not to take supplements, but my allergic reactions have become so severe, that although I have avoided MSG for years now, I am becoming allergic to virtually everything. The main reponse is anaphylactic type swelling of the face, and extreme lethargy. Since swelling is also a symptom of MSG reaction, I think this is where the two are linked - inflammation. Since I feel better since beginning to take the CoQ10, 50 mg in the morning, 50 mg at night, and my allergic reactions seem much less severe, I may have had a CoQ10 deficiency. As with any deficiency, taking a certain supplement only really helps when you are deficient in that substance. I have restricted my diet so much due to diagnosed allergies to milk, soy, chicken, celery, tomatoes, carrots, apples, artichokes, beans, peppers, and pyrethrum. The body needs many vitamins to make CoQ10, and with other medication I am on, I must limit my consumption of foods high in vitamin B6. In my case, it's probably impossible to get what I need to make enough CoQ10. As for yourself, every individual is different, and I only advocate taking a supplement if you are deficient, and diet alone won't correct it. If you want to try CoQ10, as with any medication, start with a small dose, and see if that helps. About taurine, do a search on this site for taurine, it is an amino acid which may become difficult for the body to make because glutamate interferes with its metabolic precursor. Taurine regulates heartbeat and is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. The yin to glutamate's yang, so to speak. I only take 1/4 tsp pure powdered taurine in water if I know I have ingested MSG, because my liver works fine, and should be able to make taurine normally.
Kevin
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 5:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,
I also would like to thank you for your posts. They are both technical and informative. Your a smart person.
Through this site I have tried many items that have seemed to help others- vitamins, taurine, CoQ10 ect.
I was trying CoQ10 - 50mg and it did not seem to help but, have upped it to a 100mg gel cap twice a day (with B vitamin) and have noticed my tolerance level is definitely up.
I still avoid MSG as best as possible, but now if injested do not get that completely run down, out of sorts feeling.The headaches appear to come less and not as intense.
Thank you for your posts.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 7:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGers,

I'm glad to hear that CoQ10 is working for a number of you.

I actually got my wife to start taking it because she read that it helped lower cholesteral and guess what -- she's still drinking Diet Pepsi (albeit less than she used to) but her rash and the numbness in her left arm & leg have dissappeared. Go figure.

Though CoQ10 might begin to sound like a wonder supplement, I still feel the combination of CoQ10 & MSG abstinance are mandated for better health.

And Carol H,

I mainly continue the Taurine, Magnesium & Vitamin B6 supplementation because I still like to consume those evening cocktails and figure my liver needs all the help it can get. But I have found a method to limit my alcohol intake and accomplish something healthful. I drink a 12 oz glass of water with every drink and cannot have another drink until I finish the water. It has really helped me properly hydrate my system because otherwise I would never force myself to drink the recommended amount of water. It also fills me up and I eat less because I don't get the food cravings that alcohol alone gives.

That and the Low Carb diet that also helps me avoid potential MSG products seems to be my lifestyle answer. But there's always room for improvement.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 8:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, thank you so much. Your post this week is what convinced me to try CoQ10. I feel so much better, that even though I have a cold this week, I had enough energy yesterday morning to actually clean my entire apartment. I rarely had enough energy in this past year to clean even one room... I recently felt I was being backed into a corner with all the food sensitivities, as my allergist had bad news every time I saw him. Maybe there's hope for me yet :)
valerie
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom - I just recently realized i am MSG sensitive and have been eating low carb for a while. I was just wondering what kinds of foods you typically eat. Thanks
Valerie
Deb A
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 4:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What brand of CoQ10 did you buy, Carol? Has anyone suspected that they react to the gel cap? Or are you suggesting that you can tolerate gelatin due to the positive effects of the CoQ10? You've got me wanting to hop over to Walmart and get some myself! I will do so tomorrow and let you know if it helps me. I could use more energy any time! My poor husband has had the flu this last week, and I'm afraid I have gotten behind on my e mail inquiries, and this board. Sorry! But you know how some men get when they get ill!!! Tee Hee! Have any of you seen that TV ad where the guy is sick and yells out for "Debby...oh, DebaDebaDeeeeebby!!" I'm living it!
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 5:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Valerie,

I've always been a "Meat & Potato" "Couch Potato" type of guy but my wife (who's been thin all her life and active) is into pastas and casseroles. When my wife started becoming more "health" conscious with regard to meal preparation, that is when I started to have more of the MSG reactions. Food products low in sodium and fat proved to be higher in ingredients that contained MSG.

I still recall how my life was spiraling down into an abyss. Many symptoms that my doctors and I had attributed to stress, hypertension, high blood pressure, etc. were actually reactions to the increased consumption of MSG & Aspartame. Though I was eating "healthy" foods, I couldn't lose a pound and I felt "God Awful".

I changed doctors and the new doctor put me directly into the hospital. I was experiencing Congestive Heart Failure (CHF).
1) Swelling in hands, feet, ankles, face, neck & wrists.
2) Coughing so badly I had to try to sleep in our spare bedroom. I say try to sleep because I could only sleep a couple of hours at a time. My mind would be racing with unrelated thoughts. Towards the end of my CHF, I could not lie down and would try to sleep sitting up.
3) Sores & rashes that would not heal (caused by the poor circulation of an improperly beating heart).
4) Dizziness to the point of fainting (again poor circulation)
5) Difficulty breathing (fluid retention around the lungs).
6) A pounding in the chest ( which I did not uniquely recognize because of all the other symptoms caused by the rapid & irregular heartbeat)
7) Blurred vision, tightness in head & neck.

You can see from the above, that the symptoms I had were the classic CHF symptoms which were caused by the Arrhythmia which in turn was caused by the MSG reaction.

During my recuperation from the CHF, a friend informed me about a book called "Protein Power" which was purported to be a modified Atkins style diet. My friend swore that modifying his lifestyle after his own experience with CHF to this diet changed his life and allowed him to return to normal activities. I had lost 22 pounds after one week in the hospital most of it attributed to retained fluids which were eliminated from my system with the aid of diuretics. Since the Protein Power diet also helps purge retained fluids, I saw it as a way to reduce my dependence on diuretics (and it has).

But once I made the MSG connection and started educating myself about all the ingredients and products to avoid, I began to feel so much better that I made the lifestyle commitment to stay on the diet. I also made the commitment to abstain from MSG & Aspartame and strive to enhance my diet with supplements that I can reason help my body sustain potential damage from casual ingestion of MSG & Aspartame.

But I ramble on. I basically returned to eating meats, poultry, fish, vegetables, eggs and fruit. I occasionally will have a potato, but no pasta, rice, breads (only occasional rye bread). I try to stay under 30 carbs a day and make those complex carbs. This diet and the CoQ10 have brought all my blood levels of cholesterol & triglycerides, etc. into the normal ranges.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 8:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

I bought Twinlab CoQ10. It is in a gelcap. I don't react as much to them as many of you. Other ingredients : cellulose, potato starch, gelatin, purified water, MCT, Silica, Magnesium Strearate. I want to try a different, more pure form. So I don't recommend Twinlab for those sensitive to gelatin. This was the only brand the store near me had this week.
Other good news... I was so afraid my tumor meds weren't working, the kind of pituitary tumor I have makes my body think its pregnant, so my period just disappears for a few months, and I start to really worry that the tumor is getting bigger. Well, Only a five days after starting the CoQ10, I got a normal period after waiting almost 3 months. I wonder - Do I feel better from the tumor meds kicking in, instead of the CoQ10, or is my medication now working better because I started taking the CoQ10? Interesting, either way, I am so relieved.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 3:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol,

This article suggests that supplementing conventional treatments for tumors with antioxidants may enhance their effectiveness:

http://www.essiac-info.org/BobK/article1.html
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great news, Carol. Hope we're on to something with the CoQ10. I bought some at Walmart yesterday. I squeezed out the oil from the gelcap. Hope that's okay. The brand I got uses soybean oil as the carrier. I'm hoping the small amount won't bother me. If it does, I'll try the TwinLabs brand. Thanks for your response. I didn't read it in time before I purchased this brand. There has to be some source that doesn't have as many fillers.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, I just want to thank you for all the valuable information you share with us about the way you reclaimed your health. I have a neighbor whose 17 year old son has been diagnosed with CHF and has all the symptoms you describe. She herself is on meds for depression and has had surgery to remove her gall bladder (which did not do a thing for her chronic pain). She cannot concentrate and her other son has ADD and vision problems. The other son has typical MSG reactions, too, including dizziness that "they" can't find the cause for. I have tried to help her, but she adamantly says, "If I can't make a meal in 10 minutes, we don't eat!" I'll download what you have posted here, and try again. This is the most aggravating thing for me...when parents are too "lazy" ( or just don't know how to cook and don't want to be bothered) to provide healthy meals for their poor kids. They eat almost exclusively purchased pizzas and other fast foods. I could pull my hair out sometimes!!!
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGers,

One of the things that allow us to be successful on this site is to continue the focus on cause & effect (unlike the medical professionals, which many times do not bother with causal identification and prefer to treat the symptoms instead of the cause).

It is this focus that has allowed me to recommend CoQ10 -- not as a remedy as a physician might do, but as a logical supplement whose need is to eliminate the actions of known cellular damaging caused by MSG.

Many of you have complained of other food sensitivities and some have "blamed" these sensitivities on MSG. But the link can not just as simple as to say, "MSG ingestion over time causes some people to experience other food/additive intolerances."

I began to think about enzymes. There are over 700 enzymes that have been identified that are required in one fashion or another to digest the food we consume every day. The creation, release and use of these enzymes are controlled by a number of brain functions, glandular secretions and liver, intestinal & pancreatic actions.

We have seen at a cellular level how bodily functions have been interfered with by Excitotoxins such as MSG & Aspartame, but little has been mentioned about these Excitotoxin's potential affect on the digestive system.

I have just started to scratch the surface of this theory and need to do some Internet investigation, but will be going out of town soon and may not be able to do this theory justice right now. But I thought I'd throw out the train of thought and maybe some of you might pick up on it.

We need to know what affect Aspartame, MSG and/or hydrolyzed protein might have on the body's normal enzyme absorption/production. For example, what affect does ingestion of already hydrolyzed protein have on the body's normal enzyme production? Would the body begin shutting down certain enzyme creation mechanisms over time because of lack of use? What would happen if all our food were pre-digested? Would the body over time forget how to activate proper digestive functions when required? Does the damage Excitotoxins do to the body's cells redirect enzyme production to digest these dead and/or dying cells for protein in preference to the food we eat? Does MSG cause incomplete protein digestion and thus trigger immune reactions in the body (similar to the histamine reactions) when undigested?

I have pasted some basic enzyme info below to get us started on this track.


************
I. Introduction

Enzyme, any one of many specialized organic substances, composed of polymers of amino acids, that act as catalysts to regulate the speed of the many chemical reactions involved in the metabolism of living organisms. The name enzyme was suggested in 1867 by the German physiologist Wilhelm Kühne (1837-1900); it is derived from the Greek phrase en zyme, meaning "in leaven." Those enzymes identified now number more than 700.

Enzymes are classified into several broad categories, such as hydrolytic, oxidizing, and reducing, depending on the type of reaction they control. Hydrolytic enzymes accelerate reactions in which a substance is broken down into simpler compounds through reaction with water molecules. Oxidizing enzymes, known as oxidases, accelerate oxidation reactions; reducing enzymes speed up reduction reactions, in which oxygen is removed. Many other enzymes catalyze other types of reactions.

Individual enzymes are named by adding ase to the name of the substrate with which they react. The enzyme that controls urea decomposition is called urease; those that control protein hydrolyses are known as proteinases. Some enzymes, such as the proteinases trypsin and pepsin, retain the names used before this nomenclature was adopted.


II. Properties of Enzymes

As the Swedish chemist Jöns Jakob Berzelius suggested in 1823, enzymes are typical catalysts: they are capable of increasing the rate of reaction without being consumed in the process. See Catalysis.

Some enzymes, such as pepsin and trypsin, which bring about the digestion of meat, control many different reactions, whereas others, such as urease, are extremely specific and may accelerate only one reaction. Still others release energy to make the heart beat and the lungs expand and contract. Many facilitate the conversion of sugar and foods into the various substances the body requires for tissue-building, the replacement of blood cells, and the release of chemical energy to move muscles.

Pepsin, trypsin, and some other enzymes possess, in addition, the peculiar property known as autocatalysis, which permits them to cause their own formation from an inert precursor called zymogen. As a consequence, these enzymes may be reproduced in a test tube.

As a class, enzymes are extraordinarily efficient. Minute quantities of an enzyme can accomplish at low temperatures what would require violent reagents and high temperatures by ordinary chemical means. About 30 g (about 1 oz) of pure crystalline pepsin, for example, would be capable of digesting nearly 2 metric tons of egg white in a few hours.

The kinetics of enzyme reactions differ somewhat from those of simple inorganic reactions. Each enzyme is selectively specific for the substance in which it causes a reaction and is most effective at a temperature peculiar to it. Although an increase in temperature may accelerate a reaction, enzymes are unstable when heated. The catalytic activity of an enzyme is determined primarily by the enzyme's amino-acid sequence and by the tertiary structure—that is, the three-dimensional folded structure—of the macromolecule. Many enzymes require the presence of another ion or a molecule, called a cofactor, in order to function.

As a rule, enzymes do not attack living cells. As soon as a cell dies, however, it is rapidly digested by enzymes that break down protein. The resistance of the living cell is due to the enzyme's inability to pass through the membrane of the cell as long as the cell lives. When the cell dies, its membrane becomes permeable, and the enzyme can then enter the cell and destroy the protein within it. Some cells also contain enzyme inhibitors, known as antienzymes, which prevent the action of an enzyme upon a substrate.


III. Practical Uses of Enzymes

Alcoholic fermentation and other important industrial processes depend on the action of enzymes that are synthesized by the yeasts and bacteria used in the production process. A number of enzymes are used for medical purposes. Some have been useful in treating areas of local inflammation; trypsin is employed in removing foreign matter and dead tissue from wounds and burns.


IV. Historical Review

Alcoholic fermentation is undoubtedly the oldest known enzyme reaction. This and similar phenomena were believed to be spontaneous reactions until 1857, when the French chemist Louis Pasteur proved that fermentation occurs only in the presence of living cells (see Spontaneous Generation). Subsequently, however, the German chemist Eduard Buchner discovered (1897) that a cell-free extract of yeast can cause alcoholic fermentation. The ancient puzzle was then solved; the yeast cell produces the enzyme, and the enzyme brings about the fermentation. As early as 1783 the Italian biologist Lazzaro Spallanzani had observed that meat could be digested by gastric juices extracted from hawks. This experiment was probably the first in which a vital reaction was performed outside the living organism. After Buchner's discovery scientists assumed that fermentations and vital reactions in general were caused by enzymes. Nevertheless, all attempts to isolate and identify their chemical nature were unsuccessful. In 1926, however, the American biochemist James B. Sumner succeeded in isolating and crystallizing urease. Four years later pepsin and trypsin were isolated and crystallized by the American biochemist John H. Northrop. Enzymes were found to be proteins, and Northrop proved that the protein was actually the enzyme and not simply a carrier for another compound.

Research in enzyme chemistry in recent years has shed new light on some of the most basic functions of life. Ribonuclease, a simple three-dimensional enzyme discovered in 1938 by the American bacteriologist René Dubos and isolated in 1946 by the American chemist Moses Kunitz, was synthesized by American researchers in 1969. The synthesis involves hooking together 124 molecules in a very specific sequence to form the macromolecule. Such syntheses led to the probability of identifying those areas of the molecule that carry out its chemical functions, and opened up the possibility of creating specialized enzymes with properties not possessed by the natural substances. This potential has been greatly expanded in recent years by genetic engineering techniques that have made it possible to produce some enzymes in great quantity (see Biochemistry).

The medical uses of enzymes are illustrated by research into L-asparaginase, which is thought to be a potent weapon for treatment of leukemia; into dextrinases, which may prevent tooth decay; and into the malfunctions of enzymes that may be linked to such diseases as phenylketonuria, diabetes, and anemia and other blood disorders.


Contributed By:
John H. Northrop, M.A., Ph.D.
Late Professor Emeritus of Bacteriology and Physiology, University of California, Berkeley. Recipient, Nobel Prize in Chemistry (1946).

See an outline for this article.

HOW TO CITE THIS ARTICLE
"Enzyme," Microsoft® Encarta® Online Encyclopedia 2000
http://encarta.msn.com © 1997-2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


© 1993-2000 Microsoft Corporation.
All rights reserved.


I will post more later.
ckpswann@
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,
Have you suggested a George Foreman grill to this lady? My husband and I received one from his Dad and girlfriend this past Christmas. It's been great. The first day we had it, I'd used for two meals...hashbrowns and something else (I cannot remember). Anyways, anytime I want a quick meal..really in about 10-15 minutes, I can have cut pork chops cut into ribs sized pieces, grilled cheese sandwiches (appropriate cheeses, of course), meatloaf sandwiches, grilled turkey breast, grilled pork chops, hamburgers, chicken, ground meats for tacos/burritos (Plus, it drips out the fat).... Never before have I tasted anything sooo juicy. AND FAST. I'll steam some veggies, brown rice and out comes a great quick meal. I love my grill so much that I'd planned on bringing it to the meeting in September...assuming wwe will drive to Reno (I imagine we'll have to). (I feel like I'm following you around your site this morning, hee,hee) Christine.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ugh! I wasn't paying attention. The above message is from me Christine K.P.S. Instead, I entered my e-mail for my username. Sorry, guys!
Maybe I should shorten it?
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

re Twin Lab CoEnzymeQ10 -- Twin Lab wrote to me and reported: "The gelatin is in the capsule, not in the ingredients. We don't recommend opening our capsules since the product has not been tested in this way." Despite their feedback, have any of you been taking the Twin Lab product outside of the cap? (I already bought this brand before considering possible sensitivity to gelatin.)
Judy T
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 1:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorrisNJ: I take the TwinLab CoQ10 100mg in the capsule. You'll notice how small it is...maybe that is why I don't react to keeping it in the cap. However, I can't see why taking out of the cap would hurt anything.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, that's a good suggestion. But I really wonder if she would find even that grill too much trouble. I mean it's got to be instant, and preferabley hot when she buys it! But I'll suggest it when I get a chance. Thanks.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, you shared some food for thought, as usual. Your theory brought to mind something I heard. I don't know why, but maybe you can understand the comparison. I've heard that seagulls that are born and that live along shores lined with eateries and tourists, are no longer capable of capturing their own fish for food. They have learned to rely solely on handouts and scraps. Are you suggesting that our eating of processed foods has shut down the work formerly done by our enzyme system? It's plausible, but I remember that when I was starting to have these problems with MSG, I ate lots of wholesome and natural foods in addition to MSG laden foods. Wouldn't that keep my system on it's toes, so to speak? I have been told that the enzyme amylase is involved in reducing dangerous sulfites into safe sulfates in the body. Since I an sulfite intolerant, as a pretty high percentage of the population is, perhaps my body cannot produce sufficient amylase. Whether I was born with this or developed it, it is a puzzle. But as a child, I was able to eat sulfited dried fruits without a problem. And I was better able to tolerate sulfa drugs than I am now. Could this be because of MSG and aspartame damage? Lots of questions. No studies to answer them!
Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 12:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Today I bought CoQ10 from a friend that sells Nature's Sunshine Supplements. I have always used this brand because of it's purity and have not had problems with it. The ingredients are...Magnesium 100 mg
Zinc 10 mg
Copper 1.3 mg
CoQ10 30 mg
Proprietary blend which consists of Capsicum Friut
Ginkgo Leaf 190 mg together
Other Ingredients are...Cellulose(plant fiber)
Silicon Dioxide(powdered silica)
Gelatin and water
They are in a capsule that you can pull apart, seem to be the safest ones I have found. They cost about $30 for a bottle of 60 which I didn't think was bad compared to what I had seen in the stores plus it's safer and better quality.
She also sells it in 10 mg and 100 mg the supporting ingredients vary but are safe.
If anyone sees a problem with the ingredients that maybe I'm not aware of please let me know. Thanks
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 1:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where can we find these, Anon?
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 3:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, and Deb A,
I think I have a clue here. The hypothalamus which is damaged by MSG regulates not only things like thirst and hunger but temperature as well. The hypothalamus is the body's thermometer. I seem to recall some of you saying that your temperature normally runs low, as does mine. There are so many enzymes in the body, and one of the major keys for proper enzyme functioning as I've heard repeated often in my college courses and in Tom's post, is temperature. If the exact proper temperature is not maintained, an enzyme simply may not work. Now, if the hypothalamus is damaged, and the thyroid is sluggish, metabolism is slow, and temperature may be low. This may be the link. MSG - damaged hypothalamus - low temp - inactive enzymes. Consider this - Vitamin B6 may help some people deficient in it because B6 alone assists nearly 60 enzymes the body uses. The other B vitamins assist in metabolism too, converting things like homocysteine to methionine, but if B6 is plentiful but the temperature is not the optimum for the action of those enzymes, there may lie the problem. Tom, just when I thought I've squeezed every last thought out of my head, you inspire me with new ideas. Thank you..
DJ
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 4:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Carol,

I was wondering how many of us have normally low body temperatures. I know I do, yet, along with the ever present MSG headache, I get the facial flushes as well. This occurs when MSG is present in my body, and I am exposed to ANYTHING that is warm, from household heat to sunlight. When the facial flushes occur, I get extremely warm, and the chills, all at the same time. Does this make any sense?

DJ
Carol h
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 4:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DJ, I'm not quite sure, just yet. I only just started thinking about temperature, thanks to Tom. Here's an interesting link related to temperature though - recognize any of the symptoms? http://www.drrind.com/lowtemp.htm
M-Y
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 4:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I started taking CoQ10 and I have a terrible burning, itchy, red rash on my face. I'm taking
Beyond a Century brand. Does anyone know what this is derived from? The powder is orange in
color. I'm very miserable.
Judy T
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 6:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, DJ, Tom, etc: Based on info on this board by you and many others, and links provided about thyroid (I'm sure it was Roy!), I had tests last week for my thyroid. I am hypothyroid, but I starting thinking...if I was in 'wiggle-room' to have my thyroid medication raised, even a bit, maybe I could see if my temperature would rise...that is going the backdoor way, raise the temperature and maybe the enzymes gain energy? Is this insane? Anyway, the doctor said I could raise the dosage by .25 mg. I'll need added tests in 8 weeks to monitor. It is dangerous to take too high a dose as well as too low. Anyway, what do you think. Am I crazy?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 7:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The American Thyroid Association dismisses Wilson's Syndrome as a fabrication, and adds that 98.6 is not an average body temperature:

http://www.thyroid.org/annonc/wilson.htm
DJ
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everyone...

Carol H. I checked the website for "low body temperature". I have the usual body aches for a 50 year old women with a very demanding physical job. But except for the allergies, I am in pretty good shape health wise. I work out 5 times a week, and all my CBC tests came out perfect last year.
I do have a question for everyone though. Does anyone find that their msg sensitivity seems to lesson in the warmer weather? I don't seem to have much of a problem from April to September, but Oh, let October come and look out!

Thanks,
DJ
DJ
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 2:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi M-Y,

I find that I don't do very well with food colorings, orange and yellows. This could be your problem as well.
DJ
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y: I know that Twin Lab's just revised the label on one of their products I use for my cat (Sillymarin) to include mention of ingredients not previously reported. You may want to call Beyond A Century (800-777-1324) to recheck the ingredients with them.
I'd also ask them if the gelatin was just within the gelatin cap. Do you have problems with gelatin?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y,

I took the beyond the Century brand of CoQ10 initially but was not satisied with it because it was in pill form (and I should have gotten the gelcap), the dosage was only 30mg and my subsequent readings had indicated higher dosages were required and it was too expensive.

Remember that CoQ10 needs to be taken with fat in order for the body to metabolize it properly. In your case, if you are not taking it with fat and are only taking the lower dosage, the fillers might be giving you the reaction and the CoQ10 dosage is too low to counteract.

Carol H,

Again your knowledge compliments my wandering thoughts well. I caught the temperature connection in what I posted, but the website you found indicates low body temperature can be caused by low energy levels.

So if Excitotoxins are robbing the body of energy by attacking cells and the body temperature drops due to low energy then the proper enzyme action cannot take place and when proteins are not digested properly the immune system reacts causing the various unpleasant symptoms.

Too simplistic?
Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb,
There are plenty of sites on the web under "Natures Sunshine". My Aunt also sells these products because of their purity, it might be worth a try.
M-Y
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 7:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Concerning my terrible reaction to Beyond a Century powdered COQ10. I called them and the owner is off today so I need to call back tomorrow. I'm taking benedryl to help with the reaction. They didn't have a clue what it is made from except he said the word chemical. It looks
like another miserable day. I got very little
sleep last night. OOOOHHHHH........
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 8:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol and Tom, your postings were fascinating to read. Maybe if we keep brainstorming like this, we will find important answers.
I have been taking the Sundown brand of CoQ10 for the last 4 days, and have stopped today to see if it is causing the pain in my chest I have been experiencing at the same time each evening. I'm suspicious of the soybean oil and the dyes. I squeeze it out of the gelcap, and that may be a problem, too. I may be getting too much at once. (50MG) Judy, what brand of thyroid medication are you using? Anon., thanks for answering about your friend's CoQ10.
Deb S
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 9:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,
Interesting that you mention pain in your chest in the evening... Two days ago, I sprinkled the contents of one 60 mg capsule of CoQ10 (Wild Oats brand) on my almond butter sandwich. That evening, I experienced a tightening in my chest and panic feeling so intense that I had to lay down on the couch. There was a little pain radiating out my shoulders, neck, and abdomen, but mostly it felt uncomfortably tight around my heart. Luckily, the symptoms went away as mysteriously as they appeared after about 10 (?) minutes. I don't know what caused it, but I've been afraid to try the CoQ10 again since that's the only thing I had that day that was out of the ordinary. Hmm... I'm thinking maybe contaminants? I had that reaction once before after I took two capsules of echinacea (in the capsule, though), trying to ward off a cold.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 1:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, Roy. I don't advocate supplementation with T3 by any means, and I never really looked into Wilson's Syndrome. I did find the list of symptoms extremely interesting, though because it sounds like MSG reactions. That could explain why "Wilson's Syndrome" seems so elusive to prove, it may be just excitotoxin poisoning disguised under another name. I will search more on this temperature topic, though. Thanks again for the excellent link.
Judy T
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 2:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A: I take synthroid .5 mg (given in 1.0 mg and I cut in half as synthroid is in cornstarch binder). This is in a.m. before food. I take 100 mg CoQ10 (Ultra) from TwinLabs with spoon of nutbutter or an egg or other fat. My synthroid for hypothyroidism is being upped to .75 mg. I have no reactions. I have not had a benedryl or an aspirin or tylenol for about 6 weeks now.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 2:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y, I hope you feel better very soon. I hope I did not overhype CoQ10 too much. It did not give me trouble and may have helped, but we all are different. We should be very cautious when trying anything new. There are so many mechanisms by which we may become MSG sensitive, and many of us, far from being hypochondriacs, have serious medically diagnosed illnesses and allergies for which we each take specific medication. Also, some are more sensitive to binders and fillers, so one MSG sufferer's elixir may be anothers anguish. Everyone, please be careful when trying any supplement, no matter how well it may work for someone else.
Connie
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 4:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good link about the effects of winter on the metabolism for everyone, as well as lower absorpion/retention of protein and some minerals if you have hypothyroidism:

http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa110800c.htm?terms=temperature

Here's a link about hypothroidism in general, with a good description of taking your basal body temperature:

http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.healthy.net%2Fhwlibraryarticles%2Fschacter%2Fhypothyr.d.htm
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 7:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGers,

How can we be sure we know where the manufacturer of the CoQ10 has placed the CoQ10 dosage within the pill casing? Those of you who are complaining of reactions all have manipulated the product before taking it. Carol H & I have not.

Is it possible the manufacturer has encapsulated the product in such a fashion as to allow for proper absorption by the body through digestion and that tampering with it as some have done in order to supposedly avoid fillers is what is actually causing your problem?

I do not see any warnings on my CoQ10 about such manipulation, but perhaps that is because the manufacturer would not expect customers to desire to do this.

As I stated before, I went with pills higher dosages of CoQ10 in order to counter any reactions the fillers would create. This might be the more prudent approach.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 3:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An interesting piece of advice from one of Connie's links suggests taking a nice hot bath. Not a bad idea, and you don't have to eat anything:)
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 3:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, what is the T3 you are referring to and why would you suggest not supplementing with it? I'm assuming you are talking about thyroid hormone??? I take swine thyroid, which has T3 and T4. Is this a problem?
As for the CoQ10, only a chemist at the factory could tell us how our tampering of the pill may have caused the problem for Deb S. and me. I didn't take it last night and I had no chest pain, thank goodness. I was afraid it might be a heart attack! But the fact it came at the same time each day gave me a clue. It's worth it to me to try new things, even if I have to pay for it later. Who knows? We may get lucky. We all are pretty cautious, I think, and careful, considering what we know about food additives. It may be the ingredients or it may be the fact that we took it out of its capsule. Thanks for sharing your experience, Deb.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 4:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

I meant only that one shouldn't decide on their own that they need more T3. I'm sorry, I'm usually more careful in my posts. If you already take thyroid hormones, you're already taking care of the trouble. As for taking chances, I do it too. It just scares me when someone else does it :)
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 4:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

As for T3, newer medications are getting away from T3, but they do contain T4. The reason given is that T3 is not as consistent, and results in more variable levels of hormone in the blood. T4 gives a better, more constant level. So, actually you might not want T3 in your meds either. I'd do more research on this though.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 9:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Carol! Sure do appreciate your help and input, as always.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 9:18 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Connie, how are you doing with the natural thyroid med? Every other day or more often, I get very itchy and I'm still trying to find out what is the cause. Anyone else here ever go through that? I'm suspecting things like butter, thyroid med (plain swine thyroid powder) or hormone med (it's yam phytoestrogens in alcohol drops), eggs, and even onions. The itching is often in areas where my skin touches spandex from elastic, and now I'm wondering if it's a latex or other chemical sensitivity. Oh happy day! No other symptoms, just the itching and then small itchy sores or spots that take forever to go away. Also, I have noticed some pain on the bottom of my feet when I get up to walk occasionally. Very weird!
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 8:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A - You have probably considered this already (since you have warned all of us before) but it may be worth looking again at the soaps you use for personal care and for washing your cloths. I read a posting at MCS-CI-exile@yahoogroups.com that the "Free" or “clear” unscented products may contain a fragrance and then another chemical is used as a masking fragrance to make it seem like there is no scent. Sounds like more chemicals than we need!!
Connie
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 9:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

When I go to the compounding pharmacy, they use a generic thyroid medication, chemically similar to Armour, which has a 3:1 ratio of T4:T3. T4 is converted by the body into usable T3, and if someone doens't have the necessary enzymes for this conversion, they can look like they are hypothyroid.
I know that the compounding pharmacy can vary the amounts of T3 and T4, as my doctor recently added more T4 and changed the ratio from 3:1 to 4:1. She did this because of recent research she had read. I know that too much T3 is bad and can lead to heart problems, but not having it if you need it is not good either:
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa021199.htm?terms=t3
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 7:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Connie, can you e mail me the phone number of your compound pharmacist. I's like to get some information from him or her so that I can pass it on to my doctor. I thought that you were using natural thyroid powder. Thanks for getting back to me. Also, would you give me the pharmacist's name. Thanks! avenger@msgmyth.com
Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 8:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For Deb A: There is a common thread to your problems, and that is a sensitivity to corn. If you are reacting to fabrics, or even the adhesive in bandages, it is a possibility that corn is the culprit. Corn, in some form, is being used in everything it seems--from facial tissue to plastic bandage adhesive. If you are sensitive to msg, then you can also cross react to corn. What makes it hard to detect is that the reaction may be delayed, as with msg.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 3:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A:

Here are two web sites regarding corn:

This first site,
http://www.vishniac.com/ephraim/corn-bother.html
states that:

"Alert Reader Beverly noticed that the MSG in Accent flavor enhancer is described on the container as "drawn from corn". I'm told that this is commonly true of MSG in US-made foods, but not in imported oriental products. World-wide food processing giant Archer Daniels Midland specifically mentions MSG as one of their corn products."

The second site, http://cgi.cadvision.com/~allergy/corn4as.html
says that:

"Some individuals may be able to tolerate corn in its vegetable form but not corn derivatives."
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 9:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Anon, and Roy. How did you come to the corn as a common thread? I really don't eat corn products, except for popcorn once or twice a week, and sometimes less. I'll check the sites and see if I discover anything. You are so good to help. I am also wondering if the itchy dry skin is related to perhaps not getting enough thyroid med.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 10:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

Maybe it's not the thyroid, but the parathyroid, that's the problem:

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH?t=11137&p=~br%2CIHW%7C~st%2C4
Kevin
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 3:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess any info helps the cause in some way, here is a link that a research team is relating drug use to brain glucose problems.
For some it may have been illegal drugs or who knows what prescription or even over the counter meds have also attributed to it. Glucose is mentioned toward the bottom of the article.

http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0200&id=0103021126330101
Judy T
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2001 - 3:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kevin, Connie, Roy, Tom, etc.: I follow up each link and find each fascinating, or at least interesting. I'm becoming interested in dyes in foods (now that I can finally eat (in moderation) sugar, wheat, yeast...that means some packages. Do any of you have links for dyes? Even hair dyes, too, which I do have a 'real' allergy to?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 3:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T,

Linked below is a chart of food dyes and their effects.

After being rendered unconscious twice for ingestion of medicines with red dye # 3, hospitalized the first time (from a pill coating), and given CPR the second (from red # 3 in one side of a capsule of a medicine I have safely taken before & since in other colors), I can relate.

Red dye #3 is now banned in the U.S., except in grandfathered-in products, and should properly be called red DIE # 3:

http://feingold.org/effects.html
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 4:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T,

Have you tried one of the natural hair dyes?

http://www.delicious-online.com/d_backs/jul_99/10620_s1.cfm
Judy T
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 8:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, Thank you again. (I never did thank you for the Reno meeting websites. Wish you were coming to Reno so we could exchange information).

I haven't tried henna because of fear. From hair dye, first there is itching, the next day my head swelled like a pumpkin! (I was on top of a mountain camping out and no where near medical help so I donned a big hat and hid out). After three days the swelling dropped to my legs. During this I was feverish and could not perspire. It was the darndest experience and scary, scary.

I have used Aussie color enhancing shampoo but I will try the Henna when I get nervy. Maybe.

Thanks.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 8:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found out yesterday that I am "over replaced" as the doctor put it...taking too much thyroid med, and that may be the cause of my crawling skin. We shall see once I cut back. Thanks for all your help. I'm not going to eat butter or onions for a few days, since I'm suspicious of them, too.
Yesterday was a great day. My son got word he passed his WA state chiropractic boards, and will work here with a great doctor in a couple weeks. He's the son who started all of this for me when he got so ill at 19. Also, we received an order yesterday for 20 books from a headache clinic. I love it when a neurologist believes in what we are saying! They give classes for their patients using the book. Yippee! Some days make me smile. We need a boost now and then. Many days are pure frustration....for all of us. But I have to tell you, we are getting many more phone calls and e mail inquiries about MSG than we did this time last year.....ripple effect and more media coverage on MSG, I think. I get e mail all the time telling me how grateful people are for this site and especially for all the help they receive from those of you who post here regularly. You can pat your backs big time!!!!
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 9:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Re hair dyes, see:

http://www.drweil.com/archiveqa/0,2283,167,00.html
(From Andrew Weil's web site

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0820/n253/21034492/p1/article.jhtml (from Vegetarian times)
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 9:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before I connected with Debby A and all of you and had yet to know the reason for my severe digestive reactions, I went to see a shrink to talk about how my doctors could not help me. Just as I was finishing the session, I had a severe reaction only confirming to him (and me) that "it was all in my head". At that time, I did not make the connection that he had offered me a Hall's cough drop which I ate --- the drops contain Red Dye #40 and other additives.
Judy T
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 7:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, all, for the web connections. I've studied them all, copied much, and have a better understanding of where I need to be for myself. You are great resource folks.
Ruth
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 6:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,
Congrats to your son and to you. 20 books to a headache clinic! Fantastic!
Several months ago I visited a thyroid website and a common complaint was feet that hurt. I used to have many of the problems you mentioned above-sore feet in the morning, itching, weird red marks that would stay for months. I read somewhere that dry skin, especially on the shins, is many times due to a thyroid problem. I have an underactive thyroid myself. I never figured out what caused all of my symptoms, but all of them have improved since giving up msg, sulfites, and tyramine. I no longer eat anything made of corn, and have given up onions too. Really, I eat almost nothing. My diet is extremely limited, but I feel much better! I hope you can track down the culprit or culprits for your discomforts.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 8:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for your thoughtful words, Ruth. I receive so much from "knowing" all of you terrific people.
Thanks for the info concerning symptoms. My doctor just told me to reduce the amount of thyroid I was taking. A blood test showed I was getting too much. Just made the change yesterday, so it will take some time to see if that helps with the symptoms. Do you take meds for your condition and what do you take if you do? Thanks again!
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 10:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For Deb A.: If in fact you were getting too much thyroid medication, one of the primary symptoms should have been an increase in resting heart rate. Did you feel any heart palpitaitons or racing? If not, it seems less likely that overmedication with thyroid hormone was the culprit of your symptoms. It will be interesting to see if your problems resolve when you decrease your thyroid meds.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 1:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will post the results of decreasing the thyroid hormone. He did say it was extremely high in my blood. I have had some chest pain, but no racing heart that I know of. I have checked a few thyroid sites, and I do manifest some of the hyperthyroid symptoms....restlessness, poor sleep,etc. But I haven't lost much weight. Darn!!!
Ruth
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 2:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A., I take synthroid. My doctor won't discuss any other pill. He says it is the best. I think it is diet that causes my problems, and I am so much improved that I can put up with a few headaches once in a while. By the way, I had heart palpitations before I was diagnosed with a hypo-thyroid condition, and adding thyroid hormone took them away. Maybe with a thyroid condition, the amount of thyroid hormone in the system is never really constant, so that some days you have more and some days less. Unless your thyroid gland is removed and you take a replacement hormone, the amount probably fluctuates. I guess all you can do is get close to the amount you need. Also, for several years I gained weight with the thyroid condition, and it wasn't until I gave up eating MSG, sulfites, and tyramine laden foods that I lost almost 20 pounds.
Ruth
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 10:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.
An after thought-I did have to reduce the amount of synthroid once years ago, but have been stable
ever since. It was when my doctor told me I now had Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Hope you feel better soon.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 3:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe we just need to be bitten by spiders:

http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/conditions/item%2C516.asp
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 4:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As the above link does not always seem to work, here is the complete article:

"A Spider-Venom Remedy?

Researchers have discovered that compounds in spider venom may be useful in limiting stroke damage. A spider paralyzes its prey by injecting substances that block the action of a chemical called glutamate, which controls muscle movement in insects. Glutamate also exists in the human brain, serving as an important neurotransmitter when it is present in the right quantities. After a stroke, however, damaged neurons release glutamate in such large amounts that it kills surrounding cells. Hence the interest in spider venom: If the venom compounds manufactured by the spider can halt the workings of glutamate in insect prey, perhaps a version of those same compounds can also limit the cascading neuronal death that occurs during stroke in a human."
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2001 - 3:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The researcher linked below is investigating "Neurodegeneration As a Result of Glutamate Toxicity":

http://www.neurosci.umn.edu/faculty/dubinsky.html
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2001 - 10:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting, Roy. The mitochondria are the little powerplants of our cells. They perform the energy generating tasks. This may be exactly where CoQ10 fits in. CoQ10 is essential in these tasks, which is why it is found in every cell in our bodies - it has to be. That's where our mitochondria are. This researcher may get somewhere very quick by focusing on the mitochondria.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 7:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol,

I got a new toy (a scanner) and thus can easily quote Dr. Blaylock from his book, "Excitotoxins -- The Taste That Kills." On page 39 he gives a good layman's description of the cellular energy needed to keep Glutamate "at bay." This is where I feel the CoQ10 usage has been so helpful for me and possibly for others. :)

Looking up ATP in the book's index gives many more references.

***************

"Both glutamate and aspartame can cause neurons to become extremely excited and, if given in large enough doses, they can cause these cells to degenerate and die. It is for this reason that the nervous system carefully controls the concentration of these two amino acids in the fluid surrounding the neurons (called the extracellular space). It does this by several methods, the most important of which is a system designed to remove any excess glutamate from this extracellular space. This is accomplished by a special pumping system that transfers the excess glutamate back into surrounding glial cells. (FIG 3-2) Glial cells surround the neurons and supply them with energy. This pump acts like a bilge pump on a ship. If the pump fails the ship fills up with water and sinks. Normally, the glutamate clearing system is very efficient. This is one possible reason why experimentally it takes higher doses of MSG to fatally damage the neurons of adult animals than infant animals --the adult glutamate system may be more competent. But remember, even small doses can damage these neurons without actually killing them.

While this pumping system is very effective, it requires an enormous amount of cellular energy (in the form of the energy molecule ATP, or adenosine triphosphate) for its operation. It is sort of like the old-time fire brigade, where a line of people hoisted buckets down a human chain to put out a fire. It required a lot of energy on the part of the people making up the bucket brigade. If they ran out of energy the fire would rage out of control. The same thing happens when energy production is reduced in the brain: the protective pumps begin to fail and glutamate begins to accumulate in the space around the neuron, including in the area of the synapse.
If the energy is not restored the neurons, in essence, will bum up-they are literally excited to death."
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 8:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, This is nifty. I was looking the other day for the layman's way to explain to others... great.
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 8:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom - scanners are great, but OCR is not 100% accurate. I'm guessing that in the last sentence you excerpted above, the word is "burn," not "bum" -- as in "burn up." :)
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 5:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb S,

You are correct. I had to proof read and change many words after I scanned the page, but it still took much less effort than typing the whole thing. So I missed this one word - What a "bummer". :(

Thanks for pointing it out. :)
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 5:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good quote, Tom. I've actually started taking CoQ10 regularly again. I really feel much better. Cardiologists feel they are onto something, but I don't think they have any idea why or how CoQ10 helps people with heart disease. They just know it does. I wish one of these doctors would see that it's because CoQ10 helps the body to fight the calcium channel opener monster that is MSG.

Aren't scanner great? They help people like me - the ones who type like engineers - with two fingers, and very badly.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 3:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol - Are you still taking the Beyond the Century Coenzyme Q10 or are you using another brand now? If you are using another brand, would you mind sharing the name with us? Thks! ME
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 4:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorris, I take the 60 mg CoQ10 from Solgar Vitamin and Herb in Leonia NJ 07605. Ingredients: microcrystalline cellulose, vegetable cellulose, silica, vegetable magnesium stearate, vegetable glycerin, and water. I'm not too happy about the fillers, some of which I'm probably allergic to. I want to try a purer form but this is what they had at the supermarket by me that was in a 60 mg capsule. I open the capsule and mix the contents with sesame paste or flax oil. Does the Beyond a Century brand contain fillers?
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 1:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone out there tried the pure powder of Coenzyme Q10 made by Beyond A Century for an extended period of time with no problems?

Yesterday, I sent an Email to Beyond A Century asking for the ingredients in the Coenzyme Q10. I asked if there was gelatin within the capsule and if I could take it without a gelatin capsule. The following was their response:

"You could possibly try the pure powder. It has nothing but the pure Coenzyme Q-10. It is item #203.0. It costs $56.00, which seems very expensive but, you are getting 200x100mg. does in this 20 gram bottle. The other versions of this product contain various material and are incapsulated in gelatin."
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 4:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorris, that sounds like a bargain. I haven't tried their CoQ10 powder, but use their taurine. I have no problems with that, and if this person is correct, the pure form should be good. You might try taking it with some oil or fat, as has been suggested here before. Let us know if you try it and how it goes.

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