Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help    
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Texturized vegatable protein short co...

Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Sharing Scientific Information » Texturized vegatable protein short course trip « Previous Next »

Author Message
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 4:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Get a load of this. I found this while trying to learn of the processes, (the actual phyical processes involved), that are creating free glutamates. It seems I can learn this if I pay these people $1300 and go to Texas at the food protein R&D center, in the Texas engineering experiment station courtesy of Texas A&M University. I'm not exactally rich so maybe someone could fill me in on the process, you know, like in written language or pictures. Does anybody smell a skunk? Don Campbell donscampin@aol.com
Judy T
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 5:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

! I'd love to see the info about this...did you find this on the web? Hummm...interesting.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most universities in the US these days have their research funded by the big chemical companies. When I tried to investigate the new use of phosphates in our foodstuffs almost 2 years ago, virtually every big company referred me to the studies done by universities that proved the chemicals safe.

The fact that I was made deathly ill by them was irrelevant and unimportant to them. The rat is once again the chemical industry. They literally pay the universities to prove (HAH!) that their chemical products are safe. Without this funding, the universities would need to cut back staff, etc.

It's once again the same old story....our health and the safety of our food being compromised by the big chemical producers. Do you know that there is virtually NO beverage sold in the US that is sweetened with sugar. Look for corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, fructose. All manufactured and all msg containing chemicals or in other words....excitotoxins.
Deb A.,
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Corn syrup and most other sweeteners are cheaper than sugar....it always comes down to the bottom line.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 3:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I attended Rutgers Cook College, the food science building was called ---- The Food Science Building. It is now named after a food company giant. Money talks.
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I fogot to put the web adress in my message. The adress is http://www.tamu.edu/extrusion/sc_texveg.html I guess they don't teach this stuff on line, top classified or something. Don Campbell
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 2:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, it sounds like a heavy duty college food science class. Extrusion is basically squishing what used to be food through a machine so you can make it into different shapes. It reminds me of a giant playdough press, but what happens is these screws turn in a big trough, and push the stuff to one end, mixing it as it turns, until it comes out. The end can be different shapes, just like with playdough, and the stuff can be cut like spaghetti. The trough can be heated on the outside if it has what they call a "jacket", it's sort of like the way you cool an engine, except its reversed - steam or hot water in the jacket heats the trough and stuff inside it. I guess they are basically extruding the stuff to squeeze the oils out. What's left is deoiled soy stuff that can be formed into "texturized" shapes so nice folks can go to a vegetarian restaurant and pretend they're really eating chicken. The other sessions sound like basic food preparation (cleaning, etc.) to get to the real making of the unfood. Don, this course sounds legit, however, unless you want to be surrounded by the scary people who have been poisoning us for years, you might want to save your hard earned money.
Don Campbell
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Carol, Like I say I couldn't afford such and I wouldn't occupy with such foolishness. Like I said I smell the skunk and I can read who is behind it. I can read if the info is available about the process. The main thing I am curious about is what temperature is the "food" subjected to as it is run through the press? That would be the thing activating free glutamates. I reposted my missing letter on the nomsg board under "Monsanto will pay like Phillip Morris". I do intend to go to school to learn what I must know about the processed glutamate problem. Could you tell me or can anyone, what should be my major, biochemistry, neuropsyiology? And what might be the best school to attend. I will relocate. I am devoting my life to this cause now. I am going with the intent of attaining evidence for a law suit and, because I simply must understand, and to enter research and help find solutions to medical problems. I seem to have a mind for this. I will be a relentless. Just point me in the direction I must go. Thanks, Don Campbell donscampin@aol.com
Judy T
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 1:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don: We need folks who will devote themselves to the cause. Already we have some, and you know their names from this and other websites. Gees, to be younger and not so darn worn down. Someday there will be the guru that will speak for us...kinda like Alice Walker for her philosophy, or, or, Andrew Weil for his ideas (he comes pretty close), or, well, you know what I mean. When Rock Hudson died of AIDS, when Michael Fox told the world he had MS (oops, is that what he has?), when someone well-known takes up the cause, or becomes well-known because of the cause, then we'll be on the road. I took biochemistry at the university in Reno to see what students were learning. I quickly learned how traditional and entrenched in status quo the medical system of teaching is. What an eye opener. I do think research is the key for students in the medical field. Go to med school, become a researcher and take on free glutamates and excitoxicity as your project. Sure, but you gotta find a professor who is interested in that field in order to pursue that as a student. Hope you have lots of years. Hope we all do.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 2:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, my degree in food science from Rutgers never prepared me for my MSG revelation - it still hit me like a ton of bricks. Judy is right. Medicine and biochemistry are the key. Food scientists are not trained in biochemistry, and how their work wreaks havoc in the human body. They only learn food chemistry, and unless you're opening fresh oysters, food is pretty much already dead. They don't really mind killing it further - splitting into infinitesimally smaller peices. Talk about playing with your food. I think our parents were right. We shouldn't play with our food, and we should definitely pray right before we eat :) .
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 4:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, you have all our best wishes and encouragement to pursue this for all the right reasons. You will be immensely rewarded if you continue to follow your heart and you goals.
PLEASE keep us aware of your studies, school and career so that we can follow with you and cheer you on!!! :)
Don Campbell
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 3:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, thanks you all. I do believe I have come upon this dilema at a point where it is so very evident at first look at the research that processed free glutamates are poisoning us. I know that you have been battling for a long time, and can feel underneath it. Deb A, thanks, I don't believe that this organization would exist without you. Judy T, I admire your fervor. I'm not feeling so young, I'm 43. Is it disturbing that our higher institutions of learning are corrupted by cor(pirate) power. I've always been a protester of status qou. I have not suffered as much from the poisoning as many, but all my ideals and my past are intertwined with this dilema. Carol H, you say your education did not prepare you for this but you seem to be at the cutting edge, don't you know. I've always believed the best school is a library, and if I could I'd just read it all for myself, in my own time, but I want a recognition from those who I will be addressing (and government funding to study what I want}. Carol, it is the very reason of such simplification that I am pursuing this complication. I want to learn to prove that we should not be playing with the food, or many other things that were given us. If what I'm thinking is right , I will not have to pursue even to the extent of getting a degree. I've many ideas. I posted today also on the nomsg board under "you guys are full of it" and "Monsanto will pay" and under the "tuna" title. Su has something with eosinophols. So, should I go for biochemistry or what? Thank you, Don Campbell donscampin@aol.com
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 5:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, I think you should go for it. I think biochemistry and nutrition too would be great subjects to learn. You definitely have my blessing :) I am very glad you found us and that you want to help us. We've been spending a lot of time educating ourselves about this nightmare, but sometimes being in that classroom, raising our hands and asking that awkward question, opens up a whole new door. I never would have found out about what taurine did, if I had not asked an awkward question at a sodium/hypertension seminar put on by a colleague. I asked him if vasoconstrictive food additives were accounted for in the sodium/hypertension studies done to date, he said no, but boy did he look stunned. After that, he shared with me published articles that came across his desk regarding amino acids. One of the articles he passed along to me was about taurine, and after reading it, a huge puzzle piece fell right into place. You guys know the rest.
Don Campbell
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 9:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Carol, biochemistry seems to be it. And I'd like to know the atomic levels some day also, but I am studying to prove the case first off. I'll have to reread the articles on taurine. It's a privilege to be conversing with such nice, intelligent people. I'm concerned with the necessary scientific information to prove a high profile court case that processed glutamates are a huge problem. I'm tied up with the consideration of the legal aspects for a time. But I can't wait to get into the science of it all. I've got about 200 questions at this moment. I am occupied this week with switching servers an a few other things. Am reconfiguring. Su, are u still out there? Thanks Carol, I wish to meet you and all someday. I am curious, does any body think that if some one of us compiled the scientific studies and conclusions from the past 30 years and we presented them to a judge with media exploiting it, do we have the evidence to prove it? Mr. and Mrs. Samuels, do we? Thanks, Don Campbell donscampin@aol.com
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 9:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not a bad idea, Don, and I know just the right persons for the task, Tom, Carol, and Roy!!!!! :)
Bet MEMorris would help, too! And I would.
What we need is a good sympathetic and knowledgeable judge to start a class action suit, along with as much scientific info we can find..not an easy task, as Jack Samuels discovered.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

You say,"...biochemistry seems to be it. And I'd like to know the atomic levels some day also, but I am studying to prove the case first off."

Have you read the book by Dr. Russell Blaylock titled "Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills"? This book will give you a very good chemistry lesson on the workings of MSG & Aspartame. There was a follow-up writing of his posted on a website that I made a copy of and have sent to you directly.

Your biochemistry investigations and his nuerological findings could be a good starting point for getting media attention.
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 11:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Tom, I've read about 3/4ths of the follow up you sent. I have not read the book yet and it is the first thing on my list when I get situated. I've been busy making some changes in my life to redirect and I'm relocating. The case is already proven to me. I just need to be able to communicate it to others and many things aren't answered yet about what glutamates are doing what. Those sensitive to them seem to be reacting to natural glutamates as well. Is this so? It doesn't jive with the logic I am seeing of this thing. Sorry seems I always have another question. This also seems very pertinent to the case. I've been eating tomatoes (local grown), spinach, and other things high in natural glutamates and I'm not getting a reaction that I can tell. Peace to U all in this crazy world. Don C.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 6:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

I don't seem to be affected by foods containing natural glutamates -- when the tomatoes ripen in the garden, I gourge on them. But I do tend to steer clear of them because of my low carb higher protein/fat diet detailed in the book "Protein Power".

This diet has helped me stabalize my weight (which I could never control when my wife had me on a high carb low fat diet) and it helps me steer clear of packaged foods which contain the hidden sources of MSG. This plus supplementation of CoQ10, Magnesium, Taurine and Vitamin B6 has allowed me to be A-Fib free. My only occurance recently was when I had a lot of stress in my life and because of that missed taking a number of my medications and supplements regularly.
Don campbell
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 1:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, that's very interesting. I wonder could there be a connection between carbohydrates and processed glutamates? Do you have a blood sugar imbalance? You are evidently more sensitive than me or are at a further stage. I still eat breads and starch vegetables. So, who is really having reactions to natural glutamates? Anyone? I am curious also about permanent damage done.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 6:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

What I was referring to was the situation where my wife concentrated buying food products advertised as low in fat content because she was (and still is) convinced that limiting fat in one's diet is the most healthful way to maintain desired weight.

If a person is very active, he/she can afford higher consumption of carbohydrates because they turn into an instant energy source and can be burned the quickest. In those people, reducing fat can be helpful because fat is the second most available energy source and if not burned up by the person' activity would be store -- thus if not consumed, it would not be stored.

In an inactive person, high ingestion carbs will not be burned off and will be store as fat. Reducing fat intake might help, but you've already defeated the benefit by eating all those carbs that got stored as fat.

Besides, if you look at all the low fat products on the market, not only are they high in carbohydrates, but the contain the hidden sources of MSG to make up for the flavor loss due to fat removal. So it is like a double whammy.

In inactive people, they not only put on wheight due to low carb burning, but the carbs cause them to become hypoglycemic, starting the insulin release causing cells to lose the energy they need to offset the damage being done by the MSG and worsening the whole situation.

Carol H. might be able to add to this explanation.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2001 - 9:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don - I am not certain if I react to natural glutamates or not but I had a terrible reaction to red beets that I cooked myself --- it was so bad I won't even test them out again. Beets are used to make MSG. Others have reported problems with corn which supposedly has high glutamates too.
Tom - Great explanation. I'm getting off the subject but I want to add that I lost around 20 pounds with absolutely no effort and have maintained my weight just from cutting out processed foods (e.g., low-fat, canned, packaged, frozen foods).
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 11:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Tom. I'm learning. I've been very occupied this last week changing my server and I'm still not done. MEMorris, I too have been loosing wait with out even trying. Will get back here soon.
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 12:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My new email adress is donscampin@prismlink.net
Don Campbell
Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 11:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wish that this life would make sense. Where are you people? Deb Ansley, you are wonderful for your work here but what is the story with the Samuels? Where are they in their pursuit of a legal battle? Am I in a dream nightmare or is there not communication of this? I may be out of circulation for a time with these computer communications myself. Seems I'm not coping and going to have to deal with some personal matters and relocate before I can continue my quest of pursuing this matter. I cry. This is all too much for me. And while you are occupied with discussing which restaurants and foods are safe, I think you are out there, spoiled, and not dealing with the scope and reality of this thing. I have trouble, all my life dealing with the apathy and complacency of the society I live within. I have to take some time and get some help at this time. I wonder, really, who gives a :^#*. Who does? Don Campbell
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 5:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

excerpts from an old article on the Samuels' lawsuit:

Targeting MSG: A Deadly Game of Hide-and-Seek

CBN.com -

In 1995, CBN News reported on a lawsuit against the Food and Drug Administration. That suit asked the agency to require food labeling for the many hidden sources of MSG, or monosodium glutamate. As CBN News medical reporter Gailon Totheroh explains, the verdict is now in.

Gailon Totheroh, reporter

The Truth in Labeling Campaign's 1995 lawsuit had asked for clear labeling of all MSG in food products. The public will not get that labeling from this decision.

In a March 30th ruling, U.S. Judge Thomas Mummert dismissed the lawsuit, in effect, saying that the court would not intervene in the MSG issue.

Samuels and his wife Adrienne have spent years fighting the FDA. Jack was diagnosed with a life-threatening reaction to MSG over 25 years ago.

Manufacturers mask the presence of this glutamate by the use of over forty label names, a practice that is within FDA guidelines.

"We felt strongly that the FDA had enough material, and had enough knowledge, to really know that this labeling was necessary," says Adrienne Samuels.

Labeling is crucial for thousands of consumers like Samuels who must avoid MSG and desired by millions who would like to avoid the potential consequences of MSG ingestion.

Documented reactions to MSG include migraines, asthma, heart malfunction, and depression. Researchers are concerned about the long-term impact of glutamate on the brain. After the 1948 introduction of MSG from Japan, usage has grown to over 100 million pounds in the United States.

The FDA's position has been that there's nothing in the law that requires them to have food makers label MSG completely. But the agency's response during the lawsuit may indicate that the FDA has something to hide.

In providing FDA records for the lawsuit, the agency only supplied selected documents from 1990 to 1993, concealing the vast majority of toxicity data going back thirty years.

"If the government agency was truly working to protect the people, there could be nothing in their files that wasn't open to the public and that the court shouldn't see," says Adrienne.

Rather than protecting the public, the Samuels say the FDA seems to operate as if the food industry has priority over consumers.

"The FDA's protection of the food industry went far beyond what we had ever imagined," says Adrienne.

That history of protection dates back to 1969, when the FDA played no role in the voluntary removal of MSG from baby food. And the list of companies siding with the continued disguising of MSG reads like a Who's Who of the food industry:

Campbell's
General Mills
Hormel
Knorr
Kraft
Pet Foods
Quaker Oats
ADM
The industry contends that the science on MSG is inconclusive, and they say it's too expensive to test their foods for MSG and to add the resulting information to their labels.
Despite the opposition of government agencies, global food companies, and now the United States legal system, the Samuels' say they will continue the fight.

"This is no less important that the cigarette issue," says Jack Samuels. "Millions of people are getting sick and have no way of protecting themselves."
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 8:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Samuels fought a long hard fight starting around sinking hundreds of thousands of their own money into the cost of their lawsuit. Don, all of us care deeply, but the bottom line is that we live in a free society which enjoys a huge amount of the the world's resources due to capitalism...yes, we are all spoiled in many ways, but we, for the most part are hard-working, good people who have the freedom to try to right some wrongs, which include trying to make others aware of bad food choices that cause people like us to become very ill. The Samuels tried hard recently, to prevent AuxiGro to be approved for use in California....they lost after another arduous campaign. It had been already approved in all the other states, so they knew what they were up against...but at least they fought the fight. That is what all of us here are trying to do. What we hope is that organizations like NoMSG can get more involved in educating and alerting more people with the funds they have. We do not have any funds, but are doing the best we can with our book and our site. The best way to deal with this first and foremost when you are newly aware with your own sensitivity, is to use your energy and resources to change your eating habits and lifestyle...tall order for anyone at first, but doable and worth the effort. That's what we try to help people do, knowing full well how difficult that is the first year. There are set backs and times of despair until one gets a handle on it and develops self control and the ability to trust what their body says. Be mad, Don, but take care of yourself first...that means reading, learning, and taking charge of what you eat. Ignorance by the American people will only last so long, and as more and more people and their children become increasingly ill due to MSG, the truth about excitotoxins will cause a scandal as large as the tobacco industry's...but until then, we must keep ourselves well to continue the fight and to help make others aware of why they are suffering. Jack found out how difficult it is to go up against government agencies...lots of power and money and back scratching. But the number of people making the MSG connection is climbing and they, too, will be spreading the information to others.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 8:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, don't give up. If you need to write to me - it's cheaper than the phone - thesweep@hotmail.com

We've all felt hopeless. Even Deb A. I've met her, and she's one of the sweetest people I've ever met. She really cares about all of this so much. We've all lost people we loved dearly, and think sometimes their suffering may have been so much less if they knew what we know. It's really a huge uphill battle. Nearly all the people on this site know that and that is why day after day they post on this site, looking to help people who are new to this whole mess. Don't doubt that we are making a difference. You won't see it just yet, because the news media accepts advertising from the food industry, but the grass roots movement is growing. We are not really alone. There is a huge movement that began in Italy called the Slow Food movement, it is taking off. Both the Sierra Club and The Nation magazines recently had food related cover stories. Don't get too down. Despair is the real enemy, it keeps us from succeeding.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 1:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know how anyone can make sense of the first sentence in my last posting...somehow I combined two different sentences and left out the end of the first, and first part off the second. So sorry. "starting around 1994 or so and sinking.." is what I meant to say.
Carol H., well, what you see here is what you get in person...honest, caring and not afraid to get involved with the truth and with helping people. And we clicked beautifully! We spent the last day in Reno taking in crystal blue Lake Tahoe, the set of Bonanza in the ponderosa pines above the lake, and talking from the heart. We aren't going to give up this cause, Don, and there will always be someone that you can turn to for help and information. Did you give the hat to your friend, Carol???
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 9:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And on top of all the things I said about Carol in my last posting, she can sing!
Mike wants anyone here to contribute any ideas for the bulletin board or website, for that matter. He is trying to figure out a way to make it easier for newcomers to feel comfortable participating. What about clumping a few topics under a heading like, "Newcomers". Then under it, place subtopics, such as: Symptoms I am experiencing, questions about foods, questions about remedies or supplements, information I am looking for, a keyword search, etc. Any ideas would be appreciated. Then we should add a new topic to the main menu, as well: "scientific discussion", and/or "theories", documented evidence, etc. Don't be afraid to comment or criticize. We want to make this board as helpful as possible.
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 2:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A, Reno was fun wasn't it? The hat was too small for the Eric and Peter but it fits me great :) I also wanted to let you folks know that I will be really updating scientific info on basicfare.com, and coming up with some ideas to help with this site. However, I am moving this week, so it may be the second week of October before I can really get stuff done.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 3:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, it was fun, Carol. Sorry the hat didn't fit either of them, but hey, it sure looked good on you, pawdner!

Thanks for the input, and we are looking forward to seeing what you do with your site. This networking is great for the cause, and we will move further along because of it.
Best wishes moving, and don't wrench your back lifting! I did that the last time we moved. :)
Don Campbell
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 12:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I posted another post which was posted immediately after my above post. Once again it is gone. And I had posted it and returned, right away to make sure it was posted, two days ago. In that post, I again apologized for my hostility. Roy, I had read that, months ago, and all I could find on the truth-in-labeling site. Deb I didn't mean to insult you personally. The word "all" was supposed to be in the sentence "I think you are all out there...". The reason I keep getting so upset is that no-one is answering my question, which I have asked to you same people in other postings on other boards, and you replied but did not answer it. Is there no court case being worked on, in which an individual or group of us suing a food company. If not, why is it not possible? What happened to the lawyer that was involved with the suit against a restaurant (which seemed silly to me). He was "gearing up" and had last said that "he was using that case as a trial case". Would not our case be presented in the articles of findings from the universities scientists from the last couple years? Do we need to pay a big lawyer? Could we not get media attention greatly in this way, even if we loose? If someone could just answer these questions for me, I will happily shut up about it and get back to the science side of it. I thank you Deb for being so giving and taking the time to respond as you have. Carol, I suggested the phone call because it could possibly clear me up on this quickly and accomplish several other things, and I would be able to meet you that way. While I am poor right now, I would pay the 3 bucks for an hour. I would not impose by calling all the time. But then maybe you value your privacy more than me. I do think my frustration here is making sense. Sorry if I appear schizophrenic in my postings. I think I am these days from this. Deb A, I have been feeling fine physically, since I eliminated the poison. I am very keen to where it is, in what foods and I haven't had a real poisoning for a month. That is not what is disturbing me. It is that the above questions. Best Wishes and I apologize again.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 6:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

In one of the above posts, I mentioned that I sent you a "follow up" article from DR. Blaylock. I was just reading it again and noticed this quote:

"It must be remembered that it is the glutamate molecule that is toxic in MSG (monosodium glutamate). Glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid found in varying concentrations in many foods. Defenders of MSG safety allude to this fact in their defense. But, it is free glutamate that is the culprit. Bound glutamate, found naturally in foods, is less dangerous because it is slowly broken down and absorbed by the gut, so that it can be utilized by the tissues, especially muscle, before toxic concentrations can build up. Therefore, a whole tomato is safer than a pureed tomato. The only exception to this, based on present knowledge, is in the case of ALS. Also, in the case of tomatoes, the plant contains several powerful antioxidants known to block glutamate toxicity."

This must explain why I don't react to the high natural glutamates in the ripe tomatoes I eat every harvest time. The natural antioxidants in tomatoes must be enough for me not to react. It would be interesting to know if other foods high in natural bound glutamate that also contain antioxidants to protect us from the damaging effects. This would seem like something God would have thought to do in his master plan.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 6:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

About your frustration with the lack of legal activities to fight MSG "food polution".

All of us share your frustration. My brother and I used to have arguments about this when I first discovered the connection. He too is MSG sensitive but not to the life threatening degree that I am. He doesn't have the patience to monitor his diet as I do. Perhaps this is because if he slips up, it results in a case of irritable bowls or ringing in his ears and does not threaten him as much as my rapid & irregular heartbeat threatens me.

But his frustration level was so high that he rarely reads the postings at this site anymore. He loves food and he doesn't want to have to monitor food ingredients so he gets mad at the food producers and government -- but that's as far as it goes.

For the rest of us here, our goal has been migrating to trying to understand what these Excitotoxins are doing to us, how they are doing it, what supplements help and why they help and in general building a knowledge base that will be scientifically impressive in backing our claims.

To fight the powerful and rich food industry takes money, publicity, backing from famous personalities & politicians and luck & timing.

It is very possible that with these recent terrorist activities, more attention might be paid to the food we eat and some government agency may discover that we all are being poisoned. Who knows, it could have been a terroist plot left over from our conflict with Japan that took on a life of its own because of the high profits from making bland food taste great.

We just have to continue our activities as we have been and patiently seek the best window of opportunity to blast the industry with our collected proof. And that day WILL come.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 7:47 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well said, Tom. Don't worry, I never took offense at any of the comments you made, Don. I knew you were generalizing. It's just very hard to fight the government. As for fighting the food companies, my guess is that it would amount to as much difficulty as fighting the FDA. But it is not impossible. Finding someone to take that fight on is the crux. If someone wants to do the research into starting a class action suit, feel free to do so. The man who sued Marie Calendars lost the case and it is now under appeal. Anyone is free to voice their frustration here any time. We have all done that. Yes, more needs to be done. What we have here is an open forum which we hope will educate and foster more and more answers that all of us are seeking. Perhaps you might talk to the people at NoMSG or Truth In Labeling to see if there are some projects you can get behind. At our Reno meeting we set a date for next year to spam government agencies and other groups with letters of complaint. More later on that. There are some things that we can do as individuals and one of them is to keep letting others know the truth about MSG as often and in as many ways that we can think of.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

I am sorry, but all I have to offer is more of the same. I know of no other significant cases regarding MSG. Our lack of success parallels the early lawsuits with the tobacco companies, who never seemed to lose until the tides of public opinion turned against them.

http://www.health-and-healing.org/Articles/MSG.htm
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 7:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A - My messages are dropping off again! Posted here last night and now, it is gone. Will reconstruct later.
Don campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 12:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I hear you all and every word. Tom, I know about bound vrs free glutamate, natural vrs processed. That makes sense to me, pointing to the fact that the processed stuff is the culprit. I have been asking that question and it occurs to me that the answer is in such evidence. I don't give a damn about what the charlie mansons in the East desert are fumed about. Do you understand this- Processed msg is messing people up? Do you believe that? On what basis? Yes, you know it and I know it. I do know how to avoid the poison but I am, also like your brother, still very angry at the food companies and my government. Children, are going through hell, like we were, not knowing why they feel like shit, and at the same time having permanant damage done, even dying. Do we not have enough individual case studies of all the people affected to present to a judge? Are not these people intelligent enough to see the truth? All of you talk about doing individually, but don't you see the power in numbers? Roy, how can you say our lack of success parallels that of the tabaco industry? All that was just the governments opportunity to get yet another revenue source and it played upon the idiots who sucked up to believing that cigarette smoke is so bad. I tell you what, I have smoked 2 cartons in the last week and I feel better than I have in 20 years, since I eliminated the msg poison from my food. What's disturbing to me is that the "tides of public opinion" are the ignorance of a society that is guilt ridden from having it too easy too long,(3 Billion! to an individual in Ca., yea right). And Tom, if you think that we must appeal to the rich and famous then you are supporting the system that is surpressing what is right here. You may be able to fight fire with fire but money with money doesn't work. Is it not possible that we can get together in groups and phsyically present the collective evidence to some judges, which, from what I see presents quite a case for the cause. If that doesn't work we could be a little more imaginative, say we all get naked and stand in front of the white house. There are many ways of gaining some media attention here. The media may be owned by the corporations but they are limited by novel news. Hell, at least the Enquirer would carry that. None of you have said why we have not attempted to collectively sue a food company, unless you're saying it's because of a lack of evidence, to which I say Bullshit. Could we not jointly sue and each contribute financially? Lets try assembling this dosier of evidence and lets take it a few places. I ain't going no where till I meet with you all and we do this. Screw school, screw anymore learning, I see enough. Is 60 minutes still sucking up? Is PBS controlled? How bout we get a video camera and make a documentary with interviews of peolple we know are suffering, even if they don't know it, with the eveidence of the words of the scientist behind it in sound? Lets use our imagination a little.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 7:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom,

I hope you never find out personally why everyone's so mad at the cigarette companies.

Maybe we need to recruit a poster child. Michael J. Fox, Christopher Reeve and Annette Funicello have done much to turn the spotlight on their causes.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 7:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I meant Don (the MSG damage again!)
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 12:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yea Roy, it's really terrible. My grandmother just died last year of emphysema. She smoked for 50 years and was 84. Meanwhile my aunt died quite prematurely, suddenly, within 3 months of her first visit to the doctor. She had a brain tumor from aspartame. She was 50 and just beginning to enjoy life after much turmoil. I do believe that the food poisoning is responsible for 10 times more cancer than tobacco. I am a smoker. If I get lung cancer I am not angry at the tobacco companies. I will sleep in the bed I made. It was my choice not to quit. But that's because I have trouble living in a world where people don't make sense. Read my story on the nomsg site "sharing stories" under "Monsanto will pay like Phillip Morris". My life, and so is yours, is far more affected by the intentional poisoning of our food, a necessity, by the companies that are providing it. Our government is taking advantage of this. I'll smoke a few more while I wait for you and some others to wake up to what's really going on. Are you thinking that the EPA, which is the food companies (the same people are controlling both) does not know? Are you thinking that they just haven't figured it out? We have years of evidence that they not only know but have been covering it up. This is causing brain damage in young children, not to mention a long list of physical tortures that includes children dying of asthma. It really depresses me that I come out with questions and suggestions and get such lame replies.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 12:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

Have your contacted any politicians?
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 7:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please respond with consideration of what I am proposing. Roy, I said I have. I just started in this 4 months ago, when I found out why I was so ill, while trying to deal with my own diet and other problems.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 8:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

When I mentioned Annette Funicello, I was thinking she might have been affected by MSG, too:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ms_pages/glutamate.html
Carol H
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 2:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting, Roy. Demyelinization is what can cause paralysis in people like Christopher Reeve and why he hopes stem cell research will help him. Myelin is like the insulation on an electrical wire - it's necessary. He hopes the stem cells will grow the myelin back. It would be very sad indeed if people with paralysis and MS do extremely risky and involved treatments with stem cells to get myelin back surrounding the nerve cells only to have glutamate damage them again...
Don campbell
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 9:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Right, glad you liked my suggestions. My ex-wife has MS. It was hell and now I know why it was greater a hell than it should be. We might still be married. I approached the head of the MS society with questions after attending a public update lecture (which had little info on what they were actually doing) in Baltimore, Md. in 1993. I had read up on it and I had a few key questions for him. I asked one and we talked for a few minutes which led me to ask the second, which was what I really wanted to find out. I wish I could remember the conversation now, but they were questions about the protection of myelin. When I asked the second question, the president of MS just turned and walked away. I will remember that conversation in time. It's blocked because it's connected with the care I had for my wife and too much saddness. As I look back I realize, something was not on the up and up there. I've been following the myelin research and the MS research offhandedly since then. It just seems to me that they should have figured this thing out by now. They have known it was a myelin problem for decades. Might it be possible that this food control thing is like oil and the patent industry. Is research discounted because it interferes with the money? We know it is being controlled concerning the food thing, but what is the scope of this thing if the food companies are the ones funding most of the research for all medicine. How far does this go? I know what you guys are thinking at this point. No, I am not a nutcase trying to sabotage this board. What I am telling you is true. Is anybody out there?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 10:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, you are not crazy in what you are suggesting. Many of us have wondered the same things. Most of us have seen the movie, "The Fugitive". Greed and power are powerful forces. And anyone can see how much is being made off the misery that is being caused by the foods we eat. Some of us look at the development of glutamate blockers and even wonder if the FDA and the food industry, full knowing what is happening to the health of the nation due to their own greed and stupidity, won't eventually have drug companies develop some food additive that will try to block the effects of glutamate added to our foods....wonder if IT will be labeled!!! They may be working on that now, for all we know. :(
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 2:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ground zero is probably the place linked below, right near me (click on "current sponsors"):

http://www.monell.org/corpsponsorship_h.htm
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 2:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

p.s. -

Click on "events", too (on the above site). Monell's annual corporate sponsor meeting is coming up October 17th to 19th, open to anyone working at the companies listed (Ajinomoto, Lipton, etc.).
Don Campbell
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 12:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb. I needed that reassurance at this point. Roy, you do get around. Carol H, have you dealt with that group?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 5:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Don. I do get around - the internet - I hope it helps.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 8:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

In order to win the war, you must strive to win each battle and if you are not successful, you must limit your casualties so that you may continue the war and eventually be victorious.

Strategies that have been played out by the MSG sufferers have ranged from direct confrontation via unsuccessful lawsuits to diligent research and documentation in an effort to convince the unaware masses.

In my opinion, every time I visit a newsgroup that deals with my MSG reaction (A-Fib) and am able to convince a fellow A-Fib sufferer to abstain from MSG and then find out this helps their condition results in a victorious battle. With each of these minor victories we are able to expand our troops by winning over supporters. Each of these new troops has the potential to be related to or friends with or politically connected to other people of influence.

Eventually a groundswell of knowledgeable individuals who are in control of their health and their lives will exist in large enough numbers to mandate action.

When Senator Brady was suffering his A-Fib episodes during his campaign for President I thought what a good spokesperson he would make if we could convince him that MSG was the cause of his reaction, but he went from the limelight. Michael J Fox could be helped with MSG abstention, but he has gone on record as saying he does not care what the cause of his ailment is -- he wants a cure.

This is a fundamental change that needs to occur in our medical profession. Doctors need to be trained to treat causes of ailments not treat symptoms. How many doctors are trained nutritionists (and even if they were it would probably be the food industry influencing their training).

Carol H once bemoaned at how people don't understand the effects food has on one's health and well being. We blindly feel that we can "pig out" on all sorts of garbage to satisfy our taste buds and cravings and then take a tiny pill to counteract the damage all this garbage food has caused.

I would gladly give up all my medications and supplements if I could be assured my food intake was in the best interest of my health and survival. We all should strive to have an educated society that understands the workings of the human body and respects the magnificence of God's creation by nurturing ourselves properly.
Don campbell
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 2:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, Tom that leaves me speechless. You and others here are suffering way more than me. I think I was fortunate enough to catch it before it got really bad for me. If I had gone another year not knowing I would be in the hospital. I feel for you and all that do not know yet. When you say that msg sufferers have tried unsuccessful lawsuits, do you mean other than the two suits referred to on the Truth in Labeling site? Have there been others? What you mention of Carols' lament that we are in a vicious cycle of eating food and taking "medicine" (tiny pill) or supplements, or vitamins to counteract the poison made by the same companies is sad, and when you stop to look at it, it is very screwed up, but true. Deb, I realized after you just said it above, that what you speculated is already happening. It's what hero Christopher Reeve is counting on with stem cell research. I stopped and realized; there are 99 advertisements for antidepressants, weight loss, hormone imbalance, gastro-digestive problems, nerve problems, sleep disorders, breathing problems, thyroid problems, panic "disorders" and heart problems, and many more, not to mention retalin, prozac, and other very popular medications. Half of these are being recalled and so many courts are tied up in lawsuits about these. And you and I can see that it is all being caused by one thing. All of these things are being caused by the processed free glutamates. Deb you are right. That is what is happening right before our eyes. They could process the antidote and the world could go on for another couple decades not even realizing. Now how far can this go? Can people keep seeking and taking the cure for the poison without realizing the poison? Tom, I would like to know what response you've received from the newsgroups you have approached. Is the media that controlled or just as stupid as the people that are being affected by the poison? Once again I will not be happy when everyone finally knows, while our government is still corrupt. No one has answered my question asking if anyone has lobbied for the separation of the food industry from the government institution that is supposed to be checking on it, the EPA, the USDA, the FDA? That would seem to be more important to me than truth in labeling. And once again, I ask you all; do we not have enough evidence RIGHT NOW in the publishings from the last years, the connected links, conclusions from the three msg sites, the scientific studies, to present a case before a federal judge or group thereof, to PROVE that PROCESSED FREE GLUTAMATES are POISON? We talk of individual suits, but what if we went together? There is power in numbers. One more question; can you guys see that we have the evidence right in front of us? Can you? When people like Dr. Blaylock have shown that it is affecting newborns and even embryos, and others have shown that it has caused type 2 diabetes, and others (plural) have shown that it is the cause of all the panic attacks, anxiety, depression and every damned plague the majority of us are suffering from right now. Do you really understand what is happening here? I've had some good ideas to do things with the media, but they may be nill if the media is that controlled by the corporations. Tell me, is the media that controlled? I am going into hibernation for a bit. I was going to get a life and get out of my poor status, but I am going to compile some info. from the msg sites. I know I have seen enough to convince me that msg IS the biggest problem that this country has got right now. Not even terrorism. Our own terrorists live amongst us apparently, and are controlling us. I'll be looking for any intelligent comment.
Don campbell
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 2:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guess I'm not so speechless.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 5:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

You asked:

"Tom, I would like to know what response you've received from the newsgroups you have approached. Is the media that controlled or just as stupid as the people that are being affected by the poison? "

Below is a posting I made on the old NoMSG discussion forum out of frustration:


OK I give up!

People either refuse to believe that the food they consume could possibly be the cause of their medical problems or they are of the opposite belief that just about every food or food additive is poison to their system. Is there no in-between?

I mentioned it once before that I was visiting various A-Fib discussion groups and putting in my two cents about MSG/Aspartame caused A-Fib. One would think that these desperate people who are seeking relief from their A-Fib symptoms (a HEART malfunction) would jump at the chance to be informed about a possible cure that only requires abstinence. But, NO! Nobody wants to be told that the food that they love so much is actually bad for them. Instead they discuss costly and dangerous "invasive" procedures to rectify physical problems in a major way so that they may "easily" go about their daily activities without the need to monitor their food intake.

I think this is one of our biggest hurdles. If something tastes good, nobody wants to give it up!

Food is the most basic of our simple pleasures and self-indulgences. Sure there are long-term affects to overeating, etc. (and we have seen proof that MSG causes cravings and overeating), but food consumption is the most accepted immediate and "normal" method of self-gratification. You don't need a partner to enjoy food. You aren't made to feel guilty eating a meal or a snack and if you are, you do it anyway and make excuses for it. Or you abstain from something faddishly inappropriate and in doing so ingest more poisons designed to supplement the taste buds with what is lacking in your faddishly appropriate food.

Perhaps we lose sight that food is the very fiber of our physical being. We need a wide variety of foods to sustain the most basic bodily functions. Beyond that we socialize food. We even elevate it to an art form in many cases. This is the danger of luxury consumption.

*******************
As you can see, the backlash of non-belief I was receiving from fellow A-Fib sufferers was unbelievable. I was even made to feel that I was being insensitive to these very sick and desperate people by inferring that something as simple as MSG abstinence could eliminate their suffering.

Over time and with my experiments with various supplements and CoQ10 (all of which I heard about on these various A-Fib newsgroups), I was able to convince a number of A-Fib sufferers to try MSG abstinence. Some even participate in this discussion group and learn why the various supplements are beneficial in relieving MSG symptoms and how they work (on a cellular level).

The key to all of this is educating people. If we could bring to fruition some of the suggestions made about pamphlets and a dedicated newcomer area, I think we will become more effective in that goal. Once people are convinced that Excitotoxins are at the root of their health problems and we make it easier for them to abstain, they will spread the word. This is the groundswell of support I think we need before we go after such a large & powerful adversary as the food industry. Don't forget that we have doctors and the drug industries to battle as well -- they are making just as much money on treatments of the symptoms as the food industry is making exporting this "food pollution".

As far as my personal knowledge of lawsuits, I know of only those pursued and detailed on the NoMSG and Truth-in-labeling sites.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 11:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You both realize, don't you, that postings such as the last few ones, are serving to convince hundreds of visitors here each week that excitotoxins are to be taken seriously? If our site serves nothing more than to be a forum of information and education, we have accomplished something very important. And as Tom so eloquently said, the ripple effect is ever widening. Just a couple years ago, there was little or nothing about MSG to be found on the Internet, except the propaganda of the glutes. Mike and I have gotten permission from Wayne Erickson, a retired safety effort and a man dedicated to educate people in Alaska about the dangers of excitotoxins, to post a pamphlet he has written, on our site for downloading. He has appeared on TV there. Formatting it is a challenge, but Mike keeps working on our projects whenever he has a free moment. We are working on that along with making the discussion board more accessible to newcomers. I know that Carol is working on her site in order to fill it with documented information that we and related sites can refer visitors to. These may seem like baby steps, but it's what we can do right now. Hopefully, we will tap into more and more individuals who are skilled in different areas or who know individuals in positions of influence who can help, also.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 12:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I forgot to ad that Carol H. is looking into the feasibility of making a public service announcement. She knows people in the commercial business. Of course this takes money and we discussed that at the Reno meeting with a NoMSG rep present. They take in membership fees from hundreds of people, and if they would be willing to help sponsor such a project, we could get that launched. But the site address for any such announcement should be a new .org not a .net. I'm sure we could afford such a site. If anyone wants to brainstorm on ways we could help raise some money for such a project, please add your suggestions here. Another suggestion was an ad campaign...small ads that ask the reader in health magazines or newspapers if they are suffering from migraine, or other such ailments, with the new .org site address given. Ads take money, too. This new site could be the one that Carol H. is working on...full of documented information and links to related sites. Projects like these take time and I'm sure Carol would appreciate the help of great researchers like Tom and Roy to aid her. Mike and I are working now to get a pamphlet for downloading posted on the site. We got permission from Wayne Erickson, a retired safety engineer who is dedicated to this cause, to use it. Mike has had some difficulty in formatting it for downloading, but is getting there. He works full time as an engineer, is the computer specialist at our church, and is a busy dad and grandpa, so just like the rest of us, our time, energy and resources limit what we can do. But we never give up, and we keep going, because, simply put, we know people are suffering. Many of the people who have worked in this cause are burned out, or very ill, or discouraged by the lack of committed volunteers. But there are always new people willing to help and take the torch..thank goodness. If someone can organize a new group with a mission to promote research or start a class action suit, then go for it! This discussion group is capable of so much. Look what we've done and are doing each day to make a difference. But yes, Don, there's always more that can and should be done. We encouraged NoMSG to make more news releases when something related to MSG hits the media. If anyone wants to become more involved as volunteers for NoMSG call them at 1 800 BEAT MSG. I know they could use more leaders to help the cause. Mike was up till midnight working on a page he made about the Reno meeting complete with pictures. He also wants to add a survey to the sight. This from a guy who isn't very MSG sensitive. I don't know if the Reno page in on the site yet. He's gone by 6 each morning, and I haven't checked. Look for it, anyway. This site is a grassroots effort...no big money...but it helps.
Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 7:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I especially hope we can reach Generation Y just as the food companies are trying to do: http://just-food.com/store/products_detail.asp?art=11613&lk=dm
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 7:37 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

Money -- sometimes it's available but just not spent in the right places.

Take for instance this small article in my local paper about study results on asthma:

Chicago

Parenting woes may trigger asthma

Children susceptible to asthma face more than double the risk of developing the disease by age 6 to 8 if their parents had trouble managing them in early infancy, a study shows.

While environmental factors such as pollens and pet dander are more typically thought of as triggers, emotional stress also has been linked to asthma.

The authors theorized that poorly coping parents could cause emotional stress to the infant, impairing the disease-fighting immune system.

**********
Can you believe that money was spent on such a study and the authors had the guts to come up with such a stupid theory?

Boy, can I tell you where that money would have been better spent!
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 9:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AMEN!!!!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 5:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous,

That article addressing food purveyors to generation Y reads like it could have been written for a group of conniving drug pushers. The well being of their customers is nowhere in their thoughts.
Don Campbell
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 1:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know what? I give up before I even got started. I see too much. I can't take it. I'm headed for the furthest cave. I have simply realized too much bullshit too take and still be sane and your all crazy. Well, so much for politics.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 1:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

If you're going to pick a cave, watch out for Bin Laden.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 5:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, everybody's living the same nightmare now. Don't let it get the better of you just yet. Our country was very content for a while, and got complacent. We aren't any longer. Now is probably the best time to spread the word about this MSG problem. You are doing great, by the way. I have read your postings to newcomers to the board and have been impressed by your grasp of the situation. Roy's right, the caves are full already. Tuning out doesn't get you anywhere but further out of touch with reality. There are many environmentalists worrying about Bt corn right now, but not nearly enough people are worrying about MSG yet.
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 1:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, sorry. I just totally lost it last night when I looked at a web site that someone here sent me and it listed a string of sites that tell about all the poisons and all the people that have been trying to fight the EPA and congress to be heard. And like all of us I was under the assumption (until 4 months ago) that it all was safeguarded by all the government agencies that are appointed to watch over such. I shut down and went into a state of shock, which I am still in and will be, forever I guess. Carol, good to hear from you and thank you for the compliments. They are really appreciated right now. Thanks Roy for being one of the few that could make me laugh now. Carol, I truly understand why you have been putting your energy to saving the water. So many poisons. The reason I feel like just giving up and going to the hills is because of an aloneness I feel. I have been distraught with just the battle over msg, and ready to take action. But when I realized all the people that have been fighting the same bastards, the EPA, and all who are suffering, and still nothing at all being done, I've lost it. Carol I do have a good grasp of the situation. I wish I could agree with you on the state of our societies' complacency. But where the poisons haven't made us dumb, our society is spoiled and irresponsible as I see it, as individuals are concerned. I don't see this recent scare changing that. How many have died, are in mental institutions, in jails, in elementary schools, in hospitals, out of work, divorced, in cribs, yet unborn, unable to function in society, because of just the msg poisoning? Roy, do you have a line on any links that tell the numbers? On the other hand, my hat is off to you who keep taking the time to help people one by one, and giving so much of yourselves. I just started, and a depressing thought goes through my head each time I tell somebody, or help someone. That is that this is dumb! We are exchanging this info. on computers, the wonder machine of the info. age. We now have a societal order in which we create and use such advancements in communication. How many millions now know about the poisons? Looking at the msg problem as example, everyone here has the attitude that we do not have the evidence to prove that processed glutamates are poisoning us yet. We not only do, but have had for years, and the EPA has not only seen it, they ate it. And now I find that the same thing has been going on with aspartame, beef, milk,(cheese),eggs, sulfites, the water, and much more. All of these groups have been appealing to the same small group of people, the EPA, the heads of the food companies, the same people. I just dropped out of the legal arena. #1- Does anybody believe that these people don't know what they are doing to us, to the children? There is no way. 2- Since it occurs to me that a legal battle will be fruitless, I am led to ask a new question. What can be done to draw the attention of the public and the media that the media cannot be told to ignore? Is anyone understanding me here? If so, maybe it would be better if you emailed me confidentially. I don't aim to be so radical as to go outside the law, but I have some ideas, as usual. How much longer? How much longer will the nonsense go on. I'm sorry but if we are spreading the word and waiting till everyone finally boycotts, that is not solving the problem of our corrupt government that is feeding this evil and will allow it in the future if laws are not changed. We ain't the same people that were here 200 years ago. I believe our constitution needs to be rewritten with separation of corporations and state. donscampin@aol.com PS; dysfunctional families, discipline in the schools, American academic problems, crime rate, attention deficit, autism, alzheimers, parkinsons, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, phibromyalgia, arythmia, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, asthma (in children), migraines (in children), SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) caused by a babys' respiratory system malfunctioning, and how is this effecting Jerrys' kids with muscular dystrophy, blood sugar imbalance, type 2 diabetes, thyroid problems, hormone imbalance problems, anorexia, dyslexia, bulimia, hypersexuallity, muscle control "diseases", liver "diseases", irregular bowel, stomach problems and disorders, intestinal gas and diseases, cancers, the interference of basic motor functioning of the brain, speech and concentration, and causing permanent physical damage, from all we know now, to our central nervous systems, brain and immune systems. Those are just off the top of my head from what I have read about just the msg poison. Now, add to that all that the other poisons are doing and what does it spell? A RAT.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 9:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Big corporations, their greed and power, and the fact that the FDA is looking out for them instead of us...these are HUGE rats. I may be naive and limited in my own right, but we will not give up on trying to share information that hopefully will keep reaching victims...in the hope that they will reach even more victims. If some of you can organize or start projects and come up with more ways to get the truth out, go for it!!! Mike and I are seriously looking into giving out free bumper stickers with our books thanks to people like you who are constantly thinking of ways to reach others. THANK YOU to those of you who will not give up this battle.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 3:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

I have no figures for the number of people adversely affected by monosodium glutamate. Fibromyalgia, one condition said to be linked to MSG consumption, is said to have six million American sufferers, four million of them women, per the web site below.

I suspect that if you added up all of the diseases and conditions caused or made worse by MSG, you'd see it affecting virtually every family in this country.

http://users.leading.net/~nff/fibro/fibromyalgia.htm
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 11:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yep, that's what I'm seein Roy. Thanks. Deb, you know I ain't about to give up. I thank you again for your support. I hope that you understand the way I see this thing now. It is time for a bigger step. donscampin@aol.com
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 11:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PS It may not seem like a good time to take such action but it isn't going to be any easier in the future, and it is not a good time for children to be suffering and dying either.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 7:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For a further eye-opener after reading Deb A's and Dr. Blaylock's book, visit: http://www.dorway.com
By starting at http://www.dorway.com/index2.html (instead of the home page) you can see a wealth of information and find other links.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 2:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

Our FDA (Food Distributors' Apologists) is sounding more and more like the Canadian group linked below:

http://www.cspinet.org/canada/cfic_letter.html
Gerry Bush
Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 7:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, that is an interesting link! But at least they don't allow the rBST growth hormone to be used in Canada.
The US FDA is an extremely powerful industry led organization with controlling tenticles around the world.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 5:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry,

Below are linked some contenders for the FDA hall of shame:

http://www.lef.org/fda-museum/7_deny_therapies/index_deny_life_saving_therapy2.html
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 9:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy - Great posting. I have shared it on the Multiple Chemical Sensitivity site and folks there are already passing it on to others! Thank you.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 3:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, interesting link. Unilever is on that list of sponsors of CSPI. I drive by the Lipton Headquarters building all the time. Guess what? They took the name Lipton off the building and replaced it with Unilever signs. Unilever is Lipton. They are going by that name now - it sounds innocuous, but it ain't. They are right next to the Best Foods Headquarters and within 5 miles of the Ajinomoto HQ. (It's like Unfood Central around here :( .)
Don Campbell
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 11:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very good. At least the conversation has switched to some of the political and financial powers that are responsible here. However, I will say it till the cows come flying out of the clouds; DO WE NOT HAVE SCIENTIFIC PROOF??? You all have LISTED IT!!! OK, so this thing is bigger than our government, it's a world wide control thing. Who is behind it more than anyone? That's right, America... Now if you don't want to stand up and protest this, knowing that the government is controlled by these corporations, and the media is even controlled, then where do we stand? If people don't take the first step, such as in the 1000 years of the middle ages, nothing changes and the evil that reins remains. How did this great country come about? Those that fought for freedom, gained it. Now, I don't know about you morons, but when the crux of the problem is that our government is corrupt, when it is being controlled by money, and poisoning it's citizens, I will speak up. I will protest. I will revolt. But none of you bastards will realize that this, our system of regulation of the food industry is totally corrupt. And if it is a worldwide thing, I do believe our American corporations and
power have the greatest influence, and control. And that makes us, all the more responsible. I have some ideas as to what to do. Are any of you awake? E-mail me confidentially-just click on my name. If you are single , without children, and have a couple months to go for it, contact me please. Don Campbell
Don Campbell
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 12:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AND AGAIN----- DO WE NOT HAVE THE SCIENTIFIC EVEIDENCE FROM THE LAST THIRTY YEARS, THE CASE STUDIES, SHOWING THAT MSG IS POISON? AND THAT THE EPA IS COVERING UP SUCH EVIDENCE? HHHHHEEEEEEELLLLLOOOO0OOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! goodbye
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 5:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, please be nice. Most of haven't the energy to even feed ourselves just yet. You are preaching to the converted here. We are awake. That's why we're here. You can also catch more flies with honey. Success doesn't come from violent behaviour - the message gets lost in the shouting. Success comes from patience, persistence and outwitting the enemy.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 7:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Carol...I was about to write the same to Don. We care, but yes, sadly, most of us haven't the energy to even feed ourselves just yet.

Don, none of us are slackers. We are poisoned and sick and trying to get well. You don't attack your fellow soldiers....you attack the enemy!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 5:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

Many of us are struggling with symptoms like those mentioned in the link below and don't have the stamina to go after the bad guys.

http://www.priorityonevitamins.com/artichealth/msg.htm

It occurs to me that your wealth of ideas and obvious writing ability could be an effective weapon in the fight against MSG. Maybe someone here knows an editor who could package them for a wider audience.
Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 8:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don - You poor thing. I know --- you must have eaten something with alot of MSG in it! What else would explain this venom towards the choir here? Direct your anger more productively will you please.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 10:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow Roy,
What a great article! So encompassing. Thanks for the link.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 8:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy - What a great posting! I recommend that everyone read it.

Another posting that I highly recommend covers Antimicrobial Packaging:
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~han/CyberFoodsci/volume2000.html

Here are some quotes:
"Antimicrobial agents are incorporated in packaging material by mixing, coating and chemical immobilization. They can slowly release to food surface and penetrate into the center of food products to perform the antimicrobial function."

"Sachet systems have been used to control the gas composition inside a package. Ethanol vapor generating sachet is an effective example of antimicrobial gas systems." --- I wonder if they are referring here to those little plastic covered papers that the supermarkets place within the meat packages which I previously assumed were just used to absorb leaking liquids. Perhaps, the best way to avoid this packaging is getting meat at a reliable butcher -- which I owe Carol H. for recommending to me before.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy,

Good find on that article. Well written summation of what we have all discovered here. In fact I copied it and forwarded it on to everyone on my e-mail lists with the following preface: (some of the others of you might want to follow suit -- feel free to copy and paste my preface or parts thereof)

**************

Dear friends,

Many of you know that I have been able to attribute my bouts of Atrial Fibrillation and Arrhythmia to the ingestion of an excitotoxin called Monosodium Glutamate. I have spent over two years participating in a discussion group on a website at:

www.msgmyth.com

where participants have been able to uncover not only the many sources of MSG in our food supply, but also methods of abstinence and supplementation helpful in elimination of the damage caused by this substance.

I hope you will forgive this intrusion, but I have just read what I feel is one of the best summations of these years of research and would like to share it with my friends.

Please see the attached. I have copied and pasted the article below for those of you who may not be able to open the attached word document.

To your health!

Tom

*************
Then I pasted the article and also attached it as a word document.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh rats!!! MEMorrisNJ, your above link is a superb one! Now we have yet another source of chemicals to worry about. I too have wondered why they use a piece of plastic to absorb the meat juices. We may never win this battle. The chemical producers are always one step ahead of us, to the point that we just can't catch up.
By the way...anybody coming to Phoenix for the World Series?
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom & Others - I used Tom's suggested form letter to to call attention to the great web site that Roy told us about at http://www.priorityonevitamins.com/artichealth/msg.htm and to promote msgmyth.com

After posting it at sites for MCS-exile, sulfites and IBS, I rec'd f/b from a number of folks who I hope will join our discussions here. One person sent me the following excellent quote that he referred to as the "3 Ps" -- I love it. It reads:

"processed + packaged = poison"
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 11:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We will add this excellent link to the others at our site. Thanks Roy, or should I say, Super MSG Sleuth! And MEMorris, you are our Super Sleuthess! :)
Tom, what you and MEMorris are doing to reach out to other discussion boards is one of the best proactive ways we have to use the Net. You are real heroes in every sense of the word, as are others who do the same, or post here.
By way of explanation for the fact that Mike and I have not finished tweaking the discussion board and site as we have planned, we have been very busy with other projects...it's called life, I'm afraid...getting a son ready for college out of state, the loss of a dear aunt, and Mike has not been feeling great. He's been in therapy for an injured shoulder that still gives him a lot of pain. If the exercises don't work soon, it may come to surgery. In the last months, it feels like we have had some crazy "luck?". In August, a 95 year old woman rear ended our car and pushed me into the car in front of us. Just got a couple bruises, but both bumpers had to be replaced.(my daughter and 2 grandchildren were with me...very frightening as she was going 30 to 35 miles an hour) Then 2 weeks ago, a woman at a stop sign ahead of me reversed into me, destroying the front bumper again, which is being fixed as we speak. However, on the way to the body shop 2 days ago, as I was stopped at a light, someone rear-ended me again! I tell you, I am now a shaky driver. Anyway, they are getting to know me at Sonshine Auto Body!
But to add to what some of you have said...we are all busy people, dealing with things like life... family, community, church, a war, terrorism, jobs or lack of them, and trying to stay healthy, a constant vigil that can sometimes be very taxing. We do what we can do, and pray that more of us will have the strength and commitment to make a difference for others who are unknowingly suffering due to MSG and other food additives. Thanks to all of you who are reaching out to others. May we continue to support each other and those who have just discovered this discussion board and MSG. And please let us do it with dignity and respect. We have enough enemies in the food corporations, glutamate lobby groups, and uncaring, industry controlled FDA....we don't need to turn on or intimidate each other...ever. We are not an organization, but we are together in purpose. Let's keep up the good work. Believe me, this discussion board is making a big difference for thousands...we can make it millions if we are positive and informative and care enough. Thank you, good people!
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, regarding your insistence that we have scientific proof, let me suggest to you that Jack brought all the scientific proof he could find from the 1950's up to present times to argue his case. Yes, there is the proof of what MSG has done to lab animals in hundreds of tests. But what we do not have is honest, non-industry funded, or FDA hampered tests done on human subjects. Yes, there are people who have stated that some lawyer for the complainant was "paid off" by some huge food company or that some FDA officer was "gifted" with a nice paying job on the board of trustees of some food controversial food company when he retired, but what is needed is witnesses to these "rumors" or facts, to testify before a jury or senate subcommittee hearing, along with other evidence that shows the industry is aware of the dangers of the MSG they add to their products. Dr. John Olney testified before a senate subcommittee hearing on MSG and Aspartame. What transpired is a testament to the power of slick lawyers. He, a well known and respected researcher, along with other fine doctors there to testify, were made to look like idiots. Dr. Olney continues to do research on excitotoxins, but he refuses to do testing on people or to get involved in such politicking and underhanded justice again. THAT is what we are up against. Jack had tons of evidence, anecdotal, personal, and scientific. He spent $200,000 of his own money to go to court and his case was eventually thrown out. He said "you can't sue the government", and the FDA is part of the government. You can go after food companies, but be aware, it will be expensive, and dirty. Perhaps you can find a lawyer who will take on a class action suit or a group to take on the evidence compiling you will need to go to court in a private suit or class action suit. When I say the word "you" here, I meant to say anyone, generally, not you, Don. Many of us have thought of ways to try to get attention to our cause, but please be very careful. Anything you do, especially if it is controversial, as you are indicating, can blow up in your face and set this cause back, if not done correctly and with the advice of a good lawyer. During the first few months after discovering that a mere food additive had caused me 20 years of terrible suffering, I wanted to storm the FDA, and that is putting it mildly. I have grandchildren who are innocent victims, so as I simmered down, I focused my anger into informing others in any way that I could...the book is a direct result of that and the blame I put on MSG for causing the death of a granddaughter, born too early, and with several problems. I understand your passion to make some real contribution. Just do it with wisdom, restraint, intelligence, guidance, and with some class. It will serve your intent much better, trust me. Good luck to you Don. The cause needs passionate and caring people. Please be cautious and thoughtful in your postings and in your plans to help the cause.
Don Campbell
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 3:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb, I again thank you for saving my life, and all the good work you do here. However, no one does understand the situation as it is now. I must tell you Deb that you are wrong about us not having the scientific proof of msg affecting humans. What do you call all the suggested links that tell of scientists findings? What are we living with, living testaments of? What of all the doctors findings, and their case studies over the last decades. You are saying that because the EPA does not recognize this evidence about human reactions (which would be from the doctors), that because we do not have "non-industry funded, or FDA hampered" evidence of humans reacting to msg that we must spread the word as we can. Deb, think about what you are saying. People, think about what you are believing. IT DOES NOT TAKE A LAWYER TO MAKE PEOPLE SEE. I tell you now, I am compiling the evidence. And I am compiling the evidence of the corruption and control that the food/drug companies have had over our government. I am setting up my own website. You people do not realize where we are at here, and just what great firsthand knowledge we have of a situation that is disrupting everyone around us and messing up their lives, and they don't even know it. It is not "evident" in your speech. Deb, you say we need "witnesses to these rumors". Who are the Samuels then? Are they not real people? And, where are they? What did they spend all that $200,000 on? And there are many others from other groups that have been fighting the EPA for a long time with other lawsuits for other poisons, like aspartame. People, ask yourself why aspartame is still in the food supply. We do have scientific evidence of its' killing humans. And Deb you say these witnesses must testify before a jury or senate subcommittee. That is what I was believing up until a few weeks ago, before I learned of all the others that have been trying just to get in court. Deb, it ain't happenin'. It ain't going to happen. We need to use our creative ability and communicate in other, nonconventional means to the public. There are ways, many ways. And there is power in a few that are in agreement for just cause. I have many, many ideas, but can not discuss them here as we do have an enemy people. Do you realize this? Do you realize that people from the food companies are actually watching us and monitoring this site? Many of you comment on it and then turn around and just accept such tyranny. You are not completely cognizant. It is us against them. What really disturbs me is the attitudes of everyone here. Of all the poisons being fought by other groups, msg is doing more damage, causing more deaths, than all the other poisons combined, destroying the lives of the very young and putting our elderly into nursing homes, creating dysfunctional families, causing anxiety, depression, divorce, violence. Yea, you all tell me about how msg is making me hostile. Wrong! I am not poisoned as I write these things. My head is clear now. You clear yours up. How many people do each of you know that are showing symptoms from the poisoning, are using inhalants to breath, are anxious, have panic attacks, have a sugar or thyroid imbalance, children that can't focus, can't breath! and so much, much more. And we can't tell them. They won't hear. They are still believing that their government protection agencies certainly would be taking care of such things, and that they could not be so controlled. But we know they are not taking care and are corrupt. We know they are poisoning us intentionally. Don't we? I do. Do you? Yes Deb, your granddaughter, my aunt(dead), ex-wife, step-son, sister, stepbrother, coworkers, and friends.... they all have been victims. I'm retreating for a couple months (from these boards) to compile my own list of evidence, and then I am setting up my own site, and then I'm headed out to make a documentary of the situation. I am looking for some single individuals like myself, with no dependants, to join me as soldiers in the forefront of this war. If you have a camcorder and want to participate please contact me at donscampin@aol.com It should be fun. We will ask many people many questions. And the scientific evidence will be documented in relation to their situations. And we will be asking the EPA, and some of our congress people some questions. I am accused of violent behavior here. Hardly. Hostile, insulting maybe, but people I am no where near you. I am enraged, but I abhor violence. I do believe that there are times when the most logical and productive thing to do is protest. And I am looking for some to join me in a public protest. Tell me, at what point is the evidence enough? Was it in 1970 when DR. Blaylock first informed the FDA that msg might be a problem, or in the following decade when he and Dr. Olney reported many links to the stuff and the central nervous system, or the following decade when the children really got hyper and started having all the immune system problems and SIDS got real prevalent, or the last decade where half of the children are taking some kind of antiglutamate medication for breathing problems or attention deficit and going home to a mother that is taking antidepressants and a thyroid pill to cope, but the father is gone, because he couldn't deal with his high blood pressure and anxiety attacks? Deb, this is not passion to make a contribution. I don't even measure. I am just screaming out for what is right. It's just the right thing to do and what I must pursue. I will be compiling for a while.
Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 7:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So glad Don will find his own podium at his own web site where he can promote a worthwhile mission in his own style without continuing to beat us up here. I'll be looking forward to hearing of his progress and if he demonstrates an approach that fits with my own style and seems effective, I will offer my help.

Presently for me, I can't tolerate any aggressive people lately and I do not benefit from arguments on why we are in this predicament --- Instead, I need all the energy I can muster to spend all my energy finding safe foods, holding down my job, and recovering from random symptoms when I hit something "poisoned". To help me cope, I need the approach that it appears Deb A has tried to foster here -- I think it is mutual respect, caring and information sharing. Put-downs just don't work for me and I doubt that it works for others --- especially any new visitors just looking for some help as I did when I first learned about Deb's book and this site.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 7:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

Most if not all of what you say about the glutamate situation is true. You are preaching to the choir. Nothing you have stated in your last three postings is news to us who have been working out these Excitotoxin issues over the years. Many of us older discussion group participants migrated through the frustration process on the NOMSG site discussion board -- much of that material was lost when they went to a new server. Your frustration depicted here would have fit in well with ours back then.

Your statements are really summaries of all the data we have collected in this discussion group through our interpersonal interactions and Internet explorations. I commend you for being an adept reader and for being able to cut through all the sidebar discussions' supposed irrelevancies. Your theory that all these many diverse allergic reaction symptoms' source is excess glutamate and other Excitotoxins is most assuredly correct.

This is one of the hardest challenges when anyone tries to convince the general public of the damage being done by Glutamates. No one can believe that one agent can cause all these varied symptoms -- even though that agent has been proven to disrupt and or destroy all sorts of bodily functions.

Every day more scientific information is being documented about glutamate's ill effects of the body. Many of the postings within this discussion board attest to that. I'm sure just as many counter arguments are being supported by the food industry. Our hope is that the final victory will be a similar awakening of the general populace to this poison as what occurred with the tobacco industry. The tobacco danger public awareness took many years to accomplish -- perhaps with the Internet we can shorten this time.

Good luck in your endeavors. I hope your enthusiasm will aid in your successful accomplishment in increasing awareness and enlisting support.

In a separate e-mail I have attached an outline for a "fictional" novel about an MSG conspiracy. I never had the chance to expound upon it, but perhaps you or one of your future recruits could use it as a method to increase awareness. My thought with putting it together was that if we could create a moderately successful book, the people reading it might wonder if in fact there isn't a conspiracy to do us harm with glutamates. Use it as you see fit.
Anon
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 9:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,
You going on your own journey may help the cause out more than you know.
You sound like a caring person.
May be some day we can look back and say you were right as you helped bring more light to this situation.
It would be a great benefit if your plan works.
Good luck to you as I would like to read about your progress in the paper some day
Don Campbell
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 10:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the "compliments". You pooooooorrrr people. There is a tiny violin playing for you. Tom, you're out there. Tobacco buullhhhaaacccko!!! Do you want to write? Try reading first. Recall my post here Thursday, Sept. 27 about tobacco and where we stand with msg, and how we are crucial to making a change. Tom, I'm sorry, but your idea of fiction to illustrate the truth is not realistic and would just cover up the truth for those that don't know. The food companies incorporated the poison for economically advantageous reasons. Their industry is the LARGEST in the world, as they not only supply the food but the drugs. Their power has taken over our governments' overseeing agencies and penetrated congress like a virus, and it controls the courts and the media. Anon, and all you anonymouses, just keep reading about things and being innocent observers. I don't want any of the last three that posted here to help me. I'm out of here for a while. I've got work to do.
Laurie M
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Folks,
I just e-mailed this to Don. I will respond via e-mail but i will not respond on this website unless it benefits the whole board.
Dear Don,

Please calm down or you are going to have a stroke. probably MSG induced but what the hey. You have been ranting and raving for a while here but you haven't done Jack. Go out there and do your busy work to make you feel better. Actually try to make a difference but do not destroy any chance we have for convincing people that MSG is evil by antagonizing people. When you have been at this for a while you will find out a very depressing fact. Most people do not care!! They willingly poison themselves and their children. I have been MSG sensitive since I was ten and I am just now convincing my parents not to eat MSG and my sister still persists in eating horrible foods. Hundreds of people now know what MSG does to the system and only two of them outside of my family have decided to follow a MSG free diet! This is technically a free world and all we can do is get the word out and people have to take it from there. We will not win a lawsuit or get laws changed unless popular opinion is behind us and right now Americans would rather eat cheap fast food and take pills for their pain. As a citizen with a degree in the biological sciences I can tell you right now that proof doesn't mean squat when it comes to laws or behavior. You can yell until you are blue in the face and no one cares! The word needs to get out but no one listens if you piss them off. You are rude, crass, callous, and are set on antagonizing the only people who know what you are going through. Unless you can shape up I don't want you as a spokesman and no one else does either. You won't get far if no one helps you. With that said I am willing to talk to you and help you direct your pent up anger in the right direction. However, the very first blasphemous oath, crude cuss word, or juvenile action from you and I will delete your e-mail and block you from my account. And by the way I am only 23 and am considered to be in the top 1% of my academic bracket. I have not studied human biology but have a pretty good understanding of scientific procedure. I do not work in my field because i was tired of low wages and I can not manage to enjoy life, eat right, and make no money. When I answered a post before you said I sounded interesting. Well I am an interesting person with a wonderful life even though MSG has restricted what i can eat. I get on with life. Here is a big slap in the face and me saying to you--Quit throwing a tantrum like a big baby!! I don't know how old you are but you sound like a whiny ten year old. Get a grip and some anger management and then work on the MSG thing.
Anonymous
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 3:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here Here
very nicely put
(he sounds like an old codger)
Anon
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 5:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah hey for Laurie! I couldn't have said it better. Old and young, codgers and chicks or studs, those of us who suffer from msg are all in the same boat.
Anonymous
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YOU GO GIRL!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 12:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To effectively deal with others, you must heal yourself first. Any anger management plan should include eliminating all excitotoxins from the diet as thoroughly as possible (MSG, aspartame, etc.). Avoiding caffeine should also help. Don't underestimate the instability that can be brought on by these chemicals:

http://www.zpub.com/sf/1993/ferrib.html
Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 9:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hooray for Laurie!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 8:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Laurie, for having the courage to tell Don the truth. To succeed he needs to heed your advice.
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 10:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bull hypocrites! If you attack me irrationally I will continue to respond here. If any of you could read, you wouldn't be making such infantile accusations in response to what I have already said, and explained. Now I'm trying to get some work done, but if I must come back here, repeatedly to correct idiots, I will. This board to me is the (only) political action board on this site, or alive for the battle against it, and it is under "sharing scientific info." I have much info to come. Laurie, you say people get it. You assume they know. They don't get it. The biggest reason that they don't get it is because most people assume that our food is probably the safest in the world, with all of the agencies that are "overseeing" it. And you all here don't get it either. You are not cognizant of the devastation that msg is doing or your attitude would be different. Once again I do not have anger mismanagement. I am not poisoned when I write these things. I am angry because I know who is doing this, not just to me, but to everyone. You all miss it by thinking that we have knowledge that the scientist working for Monsanto and the EPA don't have. You think they don't know what they are doing? This is not just our little world here people. And on top of that, I find I must be angry because others that are also suffering this problem, first hand, do not have perspective. Now you just let my previous words stand. In time they will be of good purpose. Laurie, I am doing "Jack". I am also having to do Jill. You got venom? Get mad at the EPA! Roy, I'm taking all those suggested links of yours and putting them together in the proper sequence, to spell it out for YOU. I'm sorry ya'll but I don't even have a choice in what I am doing. I was born to do this. Now I will once again get out of your hair for a couple months, if I don't have to defend my position, and continue compiling information. Laurie, you're not cute when you get mad, and I apologize for any offence, but I did want to say shit, damn, hell, ••••, spit, Jack.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 4:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don,

I don't need things spelled out for me. All of us here know the score. Again, you are attacking the wrong people.
Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 6:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello everyone, may I suggest that we put Mr. Campbell on "IGNORE". He doesn't understand simple etiquette and is both rude and obnoxious and therefore does not merit our response.
We have tried to help him, but our attempts have fallen on deaf ears.
He has abused us long enough!
Laurie M
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 9:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would also suggest that unneccesarily offensive statements be deleted from this site. there could very well be younger children reading this site to learn about their allergies. I suggest a warning when one is about to post informing the person that if they can't play nice they won't be allowed on the playground. It is easy enough to get the point across without spewing foul words. most chat rooms already employ this concept.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 3:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don, you're making me depressed.
Don Campbell
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 9:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yea, I here you. Ok I'll leave you alone for a while seeing as the truth to you is not as important as your own egos. Carol, I thought you would be seeing what I am saying. Maybe you do and don't agree with my coming on so strong. Again, there is reason, and it will surface in time. I'll be back in two months to tell the address of my website. Now if I don't have to come back here and keep defending my offer for those that want to do something, I'll get more done. Roy, I am unfortunately insulting the right people for good reason. Everyone around us is affected by the msg poisoning. It is not just this small group here. Can anybody see that? I'm sorry for insulting particular persons here to make the point, but this must be so, for now. I have no intention of just releasing hostility here. We need to see this problem for what it is. We need to be talking about doing something to let people know what is going on. If you don't talk about it HERE, and have it in context of the whole scenario, then people don't, and won't see. People, this country is only here today, and we have the freedom we have, because people got together, and fought for what was right. It's our turn. Now, as several have said, I can not show my case and exersize a plan without having documented evidence. If you will allow me, I will assimilate that. Roy, my phone # is (386)255-4982. You want to talk? Maybe then you can tell me something.
Don Campbell
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 1:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alright I didn't sleep last night. I'm not here to tear down. I have persisted on this board, (Texturized..), with purpose for a time. I started out by pointing out some things that aren't being recognized, and suggested what we should be concentrating on. As the replies to my words came back without any reference to the things I had said, I have gotten very upset. Each time I post, I ask myself- Should I offend in this way? And I find the answer is yes every time. You people depress me. But enough is enough. This has turned in to a shouting match and it is not good for those coming to the site. You all can say what you want about me, but leave my offer for those who will join me in protest. I can not explain enough here for you all to understand apparently. I'll be working on setting up my own site. If your are going to ignore me, then do so, and you can continue with all the great constructive conversation you have here. I will not access this board again until next year to tell of my site, except to gather info. I will respond to others on the other boards who I have been able to help, and to explain the science part of things that you all don't get either. If anyone gets to the point I am at, and realizes that we have power in numbers, if we know what we are fighting for, and that there are many creative ways of protesting, then contact me at donscampin@aol.com There are times for writing books and there are times when other action is more immediate, appropriate.
Nuts fall pretty close to the tree
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 2:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Then stop posting messages like you keep saying you are, and get started on your own site.
The world is a big old place and needs saving.
You can be a hero, hurry hurry start your site and leave us alone.
Anon
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 2:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A famous man said

"I will not access this board again until next year to tell of my site, except to gather info."

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous"
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page