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Soy

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MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 9:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could someone please explain why soy may be a problem for people who are sensitive to glutamates?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 10:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Soy is the principle ingredient hydrolyzed to produce hydrolyzed protein, which contains upwards of 40% free glutamic acid. Soy beans are naturally high in glutamate, and many of the by-products will have varying amounts of free glutamic acid that has been created in their production. More recent studies indicate that soy is not the safest health food soy producers (Monsanto)would like us to believe. In a Hawiian study, test subjects fed soy products over the course of several years, all had diminished brain capacity compared to the control group.
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 5:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorris,
It also helps to think in terms of total protein content. Soybeans are very high in protein compared to other vegetables. Not only do soybeans have a higher glutamate content than other veggies as Deb A says, soybeans, unlike meat, contain no taurine to counteract the effects of glutamate. Soybeans also contain phytic acid which can bind with other minerals, including, I believe, magnesium, which is also important in fending off an MSG reaction.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 9:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, we are so lucky to have someone with your food chemical background! I keep learning so many fascinating things related to this issue and the foods we eat...or shouldn't eat. THANK YOU!
Judy
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 11:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol: Thank you. I have a difficult time articulating what I am learning about glutamate to my family. I can't eat soy and haven't been able to explain why. This will help me. Also, the book by Carol Simontacchi, CrazyMakers is wonderful. I'm about to be a grandmother again and the mother was asking about diet...this book is wonderful. Another child was asking about her young child...this book is wonderful. And this book affirms all I've been talking about to them. They each have Debbie A's book and Dr. Blaylock's book. These have been terrific and they will use them as background and will 'hear' this book because it will talk to them specifically. They have my genes and they are thinking about that. Also they were raised on canned/jarred babyfood and ate every chemical known. After all, I was a 70s mom out in the workforce just happy we could afford the industrial food. I rarely prepared anything fresh and they must live with this (me, too). Now they have to think about their life and more importantly, their children's and what they can do for their children's adult lives. Carol H, Carol Simontacchi also wrote a previous book, It's Not Your Fault You're Fat which is also good to have as reference, except, in both books she emphasizes intake of protein, 'good' protein. Would you read her new book and comment on her stand on protein? Thank you in advance.
Judy
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 11:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debby A: Your post is extremely helpful. I've sent yours and Carols off to those kids of mine!
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 12:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, you need to write a book!!!!!!
The more we have on this topic, like The Crazymakers, and the three MSG standards, the more people will start to take a second look....and so will more physicians and scientists.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 5:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, thank you. I will get those books and let you know what I think.

I was just talking to my aunt on Thanksgiving, the doctor who saved my life last year by finding that aneurysm. She is an internist who agrees that MSG and aspartame are not necessary in the diet. She does not eat them. She felt that I sounded a little too passionate about my cause. I think what worries her and most doctors is people trying to blame any actual disease on the use of these chemicals. I guess my aunt fears people may not seek treatment for conditions such as mine because they self-diagnosed, when it could be a matter of life and death. She did, however, feel that people with certain diseases and conditions are exacerbated by these things, and that their doctors should warn them. We both agreed that unfortunately many doctors still seem unaware of the possible benefit avoiding MSG and aspartame would have on their patients. This may be the angle to work on here. We may have better luck convincing our doctors that MSG and aspartame worsens symptoms of conditions we already had even though we believe strongly that it also probably causes diseases like obesity and Type II diabetes. That realization will hit them later.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 5:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. However, I still am too busy studying to pass that darn PE license test :) and trying to prevent soil erosion and pollution of our rivers and streams. Feel free to use any of my ideas in your writings though.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 6:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, but I'm going to keep trying! Good luck on your studying and test. And thank you for being part of the wonderful conservationist efforts in our country.
Will thankfully continue to use the information you share with us, too!
M-Y
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 3:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If soy beans lack taurine, thus negative glutamate reactions, why can the Chinese eat so much of it and do well? What do they eat that evidently contains a lot of taurine? IF we could find this answer perhaps it would help our sensitivities.
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 4:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We can't assume that the Chinese don't have sensitivities. We do know that according to news reports, the USA and Japan have the highest incidence if colon cancer and birth defects. That doesn't prove anything, but I would bet that the Japanese who are into high tech foods like we are, eat more processed foods than the Chinese, who up to recently have relyed less heavily on these "advanced" foods. This is just speculation on my part. Shirley Harvey, one of the earliest board members of NoMSG went to China and while there went to a clinic. (She was in Hong Kong)She reported that the doctor told her lots of people get bad headaches there, too. A Hawaiian study on soybeans demonstrated a diminished brain capacity in subjects over 7 years, I believe. That would probably go unnoticed in most countries, or diagnosed as dementia or "old age". My neighbor who is as sensitive as I am to MSG, went to China two years ago. She didn't go to Hong Kong and ate at small village eateries. She said she didn't get sick, once.(except when she got home and ate out here) She said that they enhance the soups with dry seaweed by pouring hot water over it and letting it steep. That would seem to me a much more natural form of glutamate than the factory produced MSG that contains several forms of free glutamate, 2 of which are not found in nature, and carcinogens. But I like your suggestion. It would be wonderful if we could have more studies to find out if there is some supplement or food that could help us.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 7:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Regarding China: During the late 70's, through the 80's and as late as 1993, I traveled extensively throughout China on business. Contrary to popular belief, many Chinese are highly sensitive to MSG, just as we are. I carried along a note in Chinese that told my hosts that if I ate MSG, I could die. Needless to say, no one dared to feed me dishes containing MSG. Surprisingly, many Chinese dishes contain no MSG at all. There was always on the table more than enough food that I could eat from. ( in China, meals are always "family style", where everyone eats from the same large dishes). Many Chinese told me that either someone in their family or that some of their friends were MSG sensitive too.
Also, I have a Japanese friend who lives in Tokyo and his friend cannot eat outside of his house because he too is MSG sensitive. So you see, MSG does not discriminate.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 8:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I was at a conference in Dallas 8 years ago, I attended a seminar on food sensitivities. An Asian food scientist stood up and expressed concern about MSG. Needless to say, the speaker belittled her concern. I grew up eating Chinese food, my Dad's favorite cuisine to make. It was inexpensive to feed a large family, because it consists mostly of fresh vegetables, and is not overly high in total protein. This is a big plus I think. I grew up eating bamboo shoots, carrots, cabbage, water chestnuts, snow peas, fresh ginger, green onions and sesame oil, with reasonable amounts of fresh chicken and pork. Soy sauce was often just a seasoning added at table. My Dad never used MSG. Aside from the soy, and soy sauce, Chinese cuisine can be full of fresh foods.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2000 - 6:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree. Chinese food is very healthy and delicious.....without the MSG.
Valerie
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 3:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have had reactions ot several processed soy products but I was wondering if anyone has tried to eat roasted soy nuts. I found a brand that is dry roasted so the only ingredients are soy beans and salt (or just soybeans in the unsalted variety). Do you think these would still give me a reaction?
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 3:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Soy is one of those foods that many people who have food allergies are allergic to. I was MSG sensitive, and also very allergic to soy. Have you been allergy tested?
Deb A
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 4:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hydrolyzed protein is manufactured from soy and is at least 40%free glutamic acid. The richer a substance is is glutamate, and the more it is processed, the greater the amount of free glutamate will be present. Soy beans are extremely hard and to be edible as a roasted soy nut, they have to be processed, which could entail soaking first, the addition of enzymes or food grade acids (sulfites),etc. We get reports of MSG type reactions to some soy nuts and not to others. This is a product you will have to test out. Lately, there have been negative reports about the health benefits of soy in the diet.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 9:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am extremely allergic to any type of soy product. My suggestion would be to avoid it.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 8:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some of my worst reactions in the past were from soy nuts and soy beans. I have since eliminated tofu and other soy products for now from my diet as a safety measure.
Patti K.
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 4:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about soy milk? I have recently started using soy milk instead of regular milk because I like the taste and am lactose intolerant.
Laurie M
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 7:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try original Rice milk that is not vitamin enriched. It does the trick when you can't have real milk
John O
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 7:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Soy nuts! I never thought that soy nuts could contribute to a reaction. Thanks! I had noted a relationahip with a reaction after eating soy nuts, but never suspected they were the root cause. Curiously, I don't have any problems with things like Boca or Garden burgers or organic Tempeh. I react almost immediately to "commercial" soy sauce, but I don't seem to react to organic.

I've known I've had an MSG sensitivity for a few years now, but had no idea how many sources of hidden MSG existed! Thanks to all who maintain these sites.
Laurie M
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 10:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I never realized I was sensitive to Soy. I always thought it was just the MSG created in the processed soy. But I have found that I feel much better when I avoid all soy:(. I love soy sauce and I gathered up the nerve to try some Trader Joe's all natural Soy Sauce that was naturally fermented in the old style and lo and behold I broke out in hives and my head turned into a balloon. No more soy for me!
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 11:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I miss soy sauce and other Chinese sauces. But they are all so rich in free glutamate....all the fermented bean and fish sauces are. The more a protein food is fermented or hydrolyzed, the more free glutamate is produced. I use lots of fresh ginger, Chinese 5 spice, hot pepper flakes, and fresh lemon juice, and sometimes sugar, instead of the prepared sauces now.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 8:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Water chestnuts, bamboo shoots and fresh snow peas add some nice crunch too. Toasted sesame seed oil added after cooking adds great flavor.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good morning,
After being MSG-free (pretty much) for the last two and a half months and feeling fabulous, I decided to try testing the waters. This is after I've declared my MSG intolerance to everyone and pruchasing a Medic Alert bracelet (for that and other reasons) I ate pure MSG (Accent brand). I was 99.9999...% sure that MSG was my problem. And wanted to test to be 100% sure. Now, after one hour into the test without having eaten anything else this morning (except a little water a while before I started), my symptoms are different than the typical spaciness and mood swings that I normally get. Maybe that is coming later or tomorrow. So far, I started with a heart rate of 60 bpm that I had to struggle to feel. Then, I took 1/32 of a teaspoon. My heartrate prettym much reamined the same except that the beats became more intense. And still more intense. My pulse seemed to peak around 70 bpm. My hands have become verrrry cold, a little clammy (feet too). I keep having to blow on them to keep them warm. I haven't had to do that in months. I've got this pinching, burning and tightness thing happening in my left rhomoid (below neck and above shoulder blade). Some tingling down left arm. Now, I'm having difficulty typing with my left hand. I only became dazed for a few moments, no headache, no mood swing (as I thought would have normally happened). Strangely, I'm very disappointed that my reaction hasn't gone as expected. I ended up taking the remainder of the 1/8 of a teaspoon (which is one serving). I'm having difficulty spelling and typing the correct spellings. Normally, I'm a pretty good typist and speller. I keep having to correct what I'm now typing. A least I 'm able to do that otherwise this would be very sporadic in the spelling. Please tell me if these pure MSG reasctions may be different than those combined with other foods. Haven't had any breakfast yet. Thank you. Sincerely Christine K. Swann
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HELP, anybody out there? Please, please read my above "dissertation" (hee, hee). Thanks much. I need your support and feedback. Just took my temperature with a digital thermometer 96.7 degrees F. I prefer the mercury ones, which reads 97.3 degrees F. Even though I didn't take a baseline temp., I think this still might be low.
If you prefer e-mail, mine is ckpswann@yahoo.com
Connie
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine,

I can empathize with your determination to fully understand your body's reaction to MSG. My positive proof has come more from forgetting to read labels, and then when a reaction occurred, finding MSG or some form of glutamate on the label.

I've been tracking my reactions for about 6 months and find that I experience different reactions to different forms, and amounts, of glutamates. My most common reaction is muscular tightness similar to what you've described. My initial reaction feels like I've been kicked in the back of the neck. Greater amounts will actually cause my neck and shoulder to go out of place. It always occurs, but then I can get other symptoms as well:

If I eat pork, chicken or fish that been chemically treated (sodium lactate, etc.), I develop a 'sun-burned' type effect on my tongue and back of my throat.

In addition, restaurant prepared food has sent me racing to the restroom with loose bowels, but that's never happened with food prepared at home.

Larger amounts of artificially produced glutamates (ex. citric acid) are my worst enemy, I've been awake for several nights from one serving. I describe it ADD at night - I can't focus my thoughts enough to count sheep! But I have found a good remedy is to get out of bed and do some gentle stretching (I use Yoga postures).

Similat to this, but not as drastic, is my reaction to naturally occurring glutamates, like making gravy from pan dripping (gelled from chicken) or the time I made homemade soup from beef bones (again gelatin, from the bones).

So my experience has definitely shown me that I have more than one kind of reaction, depending on what type and how much glutamate was involved. We all may have a variety of symptoms, and I think we all find there's lots of variations.
Connie
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine,

Your note about your temperature reminded me that I often get chills as well. My normal basal cell temperature in the AM is 96.5-97 degrees, and it does drop at night. It also definite drops maybe a 1/2 degree in reaction to glutamates.
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Christine,
I just read your posts. I've never been brave enough to try an experiment such as this. But your symptoms do seem to track what I experienced the last time I ate some restaurant buffet food for lunch. The rest of that day and evening I felt a little spacey, and right after eating (while eating) I got some bad gas cramps in my upper intestinal area. But otherwise I had no idea that I had ingested MSG--that is, until the next morning. It normally takes about 15-18 hours for the migraine and mood swings to appear after I've ingested MSG, and sure enough I awoke early the next morning with one of "those" headaches and all the mental/emotional effects. It took several days to recover from that one, so I'm pretty sure they had sprinkled MSG over the food.

I believe that other factors play into how severe a reaction will be and maybe even what kinds of symptoms we will experience. MSG in a liquid form is absorbed more rapidly, as in soup. Your general overall physical condition and nutritional status can make a difference. Since you've been watching your diet carefully, and probably had a good night's sleep before this "test," your reaction might be lessened by that. Also, I assume you are at home and currently having no outside stress factors to add to the stress caused by the MSG. Whenever I'm having a reaction at work, it is exacerbated by any form of added stress, such as having to answer a question, particularly one that requires accessing my memory. All the smells at the office seem to magnify the headache. I feel frustrated and guilty that I'm not performing my responsibilities adequately. Perhaps I didn't sleep very soundly the night before due to the reaction, and usually get less sleep on work nights anyway.

The "pinching, burning and tightness thing happening in my left rhomoid (below neck and above shoulder blade) ... [and] ... tingling down left arm" are sure signs you are reacting to MSG, and I fear that it's all going to hit you in a matter of hours and your experiment will prove to be a "success" [?].

Remember that glutamate is a drug, and we don't always have the exact same reaction to other drugs. Rate of absorption varies, different brands may differ, and our physical state differs from time to time. You are probably more well-nourished (despite fasting overnight) and well-rested than other times you've reacted to MSG in foods. If you also had consumed alcohol with those foods the symptoms would have been magnified as well.

It could get a lot worse, so be prepared and don't panic. I once had a scary reaction when I took two echinacea capsules before bed--felt my chest tighten up and feelings of panic I couldn't shake off, and was freezing with the covers pulled up around my chin. I remembered someone had said that drinking milk helps sometimes, so I drank a half-glass of whole milk and got into bed and concentrated on remaining calm (hard to do when you feel like your heart is going to explode). It actually passed in about 15 minutes. Weird. I'm not sure if the milk coats your stomach and limits absorption, or if the L-tryptophan in the milk has a calming, negating effect on the glutamate.

Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head right now. Keep letting us know how it's going, even if you start having trouble putting thoughts into words and/or typing or spelling them correctly.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Connie,
I really appreciate your feedback. That muscle pinching keeps coming and going. I'm finding that I'm able to somewhat concentrate better on spelling and typing now, by no means perfect yet. When I saw your reply, my husband read what I typed. WOW! even with all the spellings that I corrected, I still found stuff that I would normally never have typed. And, my grammar, which is normally also a strongpoint for me, looked atrocious. Perhaps this is really starting to confirm it for me even more. This morning, I had taken my Medic Alert bracelet off. My husband "captured" me to put it back on my arm. I was beginning to think that my problems really weren't MSG related. I look forward to more discussions with you, Connie. Sincerely, Christine.
Christine K.P.S
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Deb S. (and Connie, too),
Thank you for your reply as well. You don't know how much support you are giving me right now. When I reread what I typed initially, I became embarressed. The reason...I misspelled rhomboid. I'M A PERSONAL TRAINER, by trade (actually now I'm a stay-at-home Mom), but I KNOW HOW TO SPELL RHOMBOID! Gosh, I spelled it rhomoid-without the 'b'. NOT A TYPO.

This is scary. I keep thinking that I may wake up tomorrow with that same horrible severe headache...or several hours after waking. I'm starting to have trouble typing again. Getting thoughts to my hands to type. Everything's jumbled. Anyways, long before I ever made the MSG connection, I always wondered why I would get those headaches. Then, by the end of the day they would be gone and I'd perk up.

Deb S., you mentioned those headaches with sensitivity to smells. Boy do I ever have that problem. It makes the headache worse. One time I went to get my haircut. I took the Coaster (a local train) and thought and wished I would/could die. The ride on that train with the headache, then getting on the bus with the fuel smell, then forcing myself to walk home. I didn't think I would make it.

Also, I am becoming more sensitive to latex...particularly old balloons or old Therabands. My breathing becomes labored and I get one of those headaches..sickening. I have to go to bed for the rest of the day. If I'm lucky enough to fall asleep...it's the only thing that relieves the headache. Usually, I can't fall asleep even though I feel dead tired.

Just on "normal" days, I've begun describing these headache/exhausted days even though I haven't exerted myself as "I can't find my way out of a paper bag". I know that I have things to do but I can't seem to motivate myself or figure how to go about doing all these tasks. Since I WAS MSG-free (I guess I'm not know), I could get so many things done in a day and had enegy to burn from morning to night and then some.

I'll keep checking for your posts throughout today...Oh here comes that pinching again and difficulty typing, my left pinkie finger needs help. Talk to you all soon. Christine
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 7:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine -- Are you still hanging in there? It's been awhile since your last posting, and I hope you're OK. Thanks for sharing your experience with us, and do let us know how the next couple of days go, too. Whatever possessed you to try this anyway? Did someone put you up to it, either directly or by some skeptical comment they made?

As an aside, there is so much MSG added to foods -- I wonder what the equivalent amount of "Accent" would be if you added up all the MSG, hidden and disclosed, together in one day of the "typical American diet"? More than 1/8 teaspoon? More than 1/4 teaspoon? And then if you add in the aspartame from all the diet soda, sugarless gum, etc., it has to be quite a load of excitotoxins.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 8:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine - Hope you are better! When you are up to it, check out the following discussion group entitled "MCS-CI-exile" for those who have multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS). To access, free registration is available at: http://groups.yahoo.com
I am suggesting this because you mentioned a sensitivity to latex.
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 8:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi MEMorris,
I've been lurking on MCS-CI-Exile for a couple of weeks now, and what an excellent resource! Very active group. There's also a lot there on problems with perfumes and other smells. Here's a direct link to that group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MCS-CI-exile

I've also seen you on the bulletin board at http://www.ibsgroup.org. Felt like I was following you around in cyberspace. :)
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 9:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine -

Please don't try that experiment again, and that goes for anyone else who's thinking of trying it. Just because you feel yourself again after a time doesn't mean you haven't caused yourself some permanent damage that will show up years later.

Also, I've blacked out from MSG, and I read of a girl who died from it, so it doesn't pay to press your luck.
Christine K. P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb S.,
I'm retyping this lengthy message to you. I was just about finished and somehow I lost everything. I'm heartbroken.

Anyways, I'll try to remember everything. Yes, I'm still here and thank you for checking on me. I think that I'm the only one who put myself up to this little test..the perfectionist and scientific/researcher that I have been. I wanted to take myself from being 99.999...% sure to 100% sure. (Although when I first started this MSG-free venture, my father-in-law said that I could test it by using his Accent. I thought yeah right. I'm not gonna do that. Well, I feel that because I've been fortunate enough to not have any life-threatening reactions, at least as of yet, that I'm crying wolf by wearing a Medic Alert bracelet. Others who have had serious heart issues deserve to wear a Medic Alert bracelet.

Since I last wrote earlier this afternoon, I've felt pretty normal overall. Sometimes I think I'm not having any reaction. Some minor symptoms include...Around 3 p.m., I noticed that I began having gas and that my abdomen was very bloated. Also, myinsides became a little gurgly. Nothing major, though. Around 6:30 p.m. I did have a somewhat mild rage reaction. It's gone now. A skin rash with very dry areas that has almost gone away became itchy and a little red again above my lip and in the crook of my elbow. Now, I'm just a little thirsty.

I think that my nine month old daughter whom I breastfeed (she does eat some strained foods, though) also had a reaction. She woke up cranky from her nap. She didn't nurse very long for the rest of the day. She'd whine and cry more easily than usual. Normally, she's very mild mannered as so many people have commented (unless she's teething or has gas. She fell right to sleep tonight though. I thought that she'd be up for hours more. I really didn't want to subject her to my experiment. Either it was the MSG or the endorphins racing through my body to the milk that made her that way. Hard to say.

I guess I'm just surprised that my reactions have been fairly mild today taking the 1/8 teaspoon of Accent. Recently when I was MSG-free I took ONE Rolaid and felt spacey. Pure MSG versus ingredients of Rolaids:Calcium carbonate and Magnesium Hydroxide as active ingreds. and dextrose, flavoring, magnesium stearate, polyethylene glycol, pregelatinized starch, and sucrose as other ingreds.

I guess I'm just confused and/or in denial since my reactions haven't been so monsterous as I'd expected. I'm just fortunate that I've never reacted violently to it. Thank you sincerely, Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello, MEMorris,
Thank you for you well wishes and for the Multiple Chemical Sesivities website. I'll have to delve into that tomorrow...assuming I'm of right mind and body after my experiment. I guess really it's a continuation since reactions can take up to 4 days, isn't it. Look forward to "talking" to you again. Bye for now. Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Roy,
Thank you so much for your response. I certainly am not condoning this experiment for ANYONE. I just was looking for some support. I felt like I could test the waters only because I feel like this is not life-threatening for me as I've heard it is for so many others. I'm sorry to hear about your blackout; and I too have heard of several people (through the media and websites) that people have died. For some reason I don't believe I'm that reactive to MSG. I suppose that doesn't guarantee that I wouldn't be in the future. Yet because I've had any reaction at all should be enough to tell me that I have a problem. Hope to talk to you soon. Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Deb A. and anyone involved in planning the trip to Reno.

My husband insists that we go to meet all of you in Reno this September. I've read much of the Reno discussions. Has anything been finalized for sure...like place. Is it still at the Meadowwood in Reno on the 17th, 18th, and 19th of September 2001? If so, my husband can find the phone number. I will check both here and my e-mail address ckpswann@yahoo.com for any info you'd be kind enough to share on the trip. Fondly, Christine.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 11:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Everyone,
Yes, it's me again. I am going to bed soon after I write this very last message for the evening. I PROMISE.

I want to thank all of you for providing the medium which allowed me to speak freely of my stupid experiment and my reactions as they occurred. Your immediate feedback has really helped me. Never before have I been able to share with others what it feels like and have them understand and confirm what I'm saying is accurate pretty much in that very moment. I'm sorry all this I probably should have been posted somewhere other than "SOY" oh well. Life goes on. As I said, I'm going to bed now. I'll check in with you all in the morning. Good night and sweet dreams (I hope)...Christine.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 8:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine,

:( I was actually afraid for the first time reading a post. It sounds to me that you are reactive to MSG, and that it passed through to your baby. Please be careful, we care about you :) You'll have plenty of occassions to get accidentally poisoned later by well-meaning friends and family, no need to do it to yourself now.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, You are so right. I just left you some info after MEMorris' about MCS. It's about Medic Alert bracelets. Let me know if you can't find it. Either here or my e-mail (ckpswann@yahoo.com). Thanks, too for caring so much. I'm now fortunate that I have people to share this with who understand. Talk to you soon. Fondly, Christine
Judy T
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine: Yes, do come to the gathering in Reno. My home is open for special needs, like maybe a freezer or washer because of the baby. Also, my husband would like to share concerns and sometimes the woes of living with someone with our 'diet dilemmas'. Check the Reno meeting subject heading. Yes, September 17, 18, 19 are the nights I know many are coming. Hope we have a large group.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello, Judy T.
Blessings to you for opening your home for such special needs such as for my baby. I definitely am planning to bring her even to the meeting because I expect that I will still be breastfeeding her. She is a very good girl and I will leave if she interrupts the meeting in any way. I know that can be distracting.

Your husband's idea sounds great. My husband has been extremely supportive. He's been so encouraging. Love to chat more but my daughter needs some attention. Talk to you later. Oh I did check out the Reno info and wrote it down. Will show it to my husband... Until Later, Christine
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 2:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine,

For the baby's sake, please be careful not to ingest MSG or aspartame (nutrasweet) while you're breastfeeding:

http://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/pregmsg.htm
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 3:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Roy,
Thank you for the info. This is really scary. I did know better and other than my own selfish reasons of wanting to know for sure about my MSG sensitivity, I put my daughter also in jeopardy. I'd not eaten MSG-labeled foods, but didn't realize until she was seven months old that it's disguised in other ways. I felt ill most of my pregnancy. Because I could not gain sufficient weight and was often spotting, I was on disability from work the last six months of my pregnancy. (Fortunately, now I stay at home.) I've always taken vitamins until recently. I could not take the prenatal vitamins as they made me ill no matter when or how I took them. So, I stopped. Those vitamins were even wheat free, corn free, etc.

I was trying to put into perspective the dose that I took yesterday (1/8 teaspoon of Accent) compared to what that research on the chem-tox.com/pregnancy site. Take care...Christine
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 7:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, I just caught up with your experiment and your postings. I am so glad that you are alright. Reactions to MSG will vary depending on so many variables. When the body gets it from solid foods, which is the primary source, it takes more time for our digestive process to get it into our bloodstream. Protein foods take a bit more time to be broken down than carbs. In a liquid source of food, like a beverage or soup, or as in 1/8 t. of Accent, it will reach the blood and brain almost immediately. The neurological responses you experienced demonstrated that. Your reactions were the same as the ones I would get soon after having wonton soup at a restaurant. But I would get fewer reactions like that and more of the bloating, headaches and stomach distress a few hours later if I ate a meal with MSG from other more subtle sources. We have had several reports from nursing mothers who said that they had colicky babies with whom nursing was a nightmare until they made the MSG connection. Contrary to what the glutamate lobbyists tell us, MSG does get into mother's milk and does cross the placenta wall.
I'm so glad that you are joining us in Reno! This is going to be fun.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Deb A.,
I wanted to thank you for reading all about my experiment and sharing your thoughts. I was wondering whether you may have received an e-mail from me in response to the one you had sent me last week regarding me beginning to post on your site and that I already have your wonderful, informative book? It has been extremely helpful. My e-mail address is ckpswann@yahoo.com. You may just not have had time to read everything that everyone sends to you, which I understand. As you can tell, I've been on this computer most of the weekend. Talk to you soon. And, I look forward to meeting you in person.

Was I correct in assuming that it would be acceptable to bring my daughter and, of course, my husband to the actual meeting on Tuesday? Please rest assured, everyone, that I will make sure that she has plenty to do and we will leave the room should she become disruptive. (I am very sensitive to parents who don't watch their children and let them do whatever they want.) There would be no one other than myself and my husband to watch her. She will be 1 year and 4 months by the meeting date. Plus, as I probably mentioned in another post, I expect that I will still be breasfeeding her and that'd be a lot of milk to pump if I had to leave her with her Grandpa for 2-4 days. Whew! I've had soooo many allergies all my life that I'm trying to give her all the best nutrition for as long as possible regardless of what most of society may think about such a lengthy time of breastfeeding. I didn't even think about it and automatically assumed it'd be alright that I bring her. Sincerely, Christine. P.S. Below, where I type in Username,etc., it says something to the effect of if you don't have an account, would there be a good reason for me to have an account here or is it strictly for moderators? Please explain. Obviously, I'm not understanding. THanks.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 3:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's a link for people who want to avoid soy:

http://www.geocities.com/nosoy2000/
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 6:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OH, my God!!! (I don't mean to offend anyone) I'm just panicing...HELP. What am I feeding my child? I thought her cereal was not iron-fortified. I decided to check the label after questions that were posted regarding "adult" oatmeal. Carol H., I think, said I should watch out because I couldn't find the oatmeal in any of three stores...just thinking they were sold out. I still have half a box, though. Here are the ingreds...organically grown whole oat flour, rolled oats, tocopherols (vitamin E), the symbol for beta-amylase (enzyme), electrolytic iron. Her rice cereal's ingreds. are as follows...organically grown brown rice, soybean lecithin, tocopherols (vitamin E), the symbol for beta-amylase (enzyme), electrolytic iron.

It's her dinnertime, I don't know what to feed her. I didn't realize the rice cereal had soybean lecithin. Isn't this plus the vitamins and enzymes a problem? Please give feedback. I may just have to feed it to her 'til I can figure out what else to feed her (besides the breastmilk and veggies/fruits). She eats the cereal three times a day. Oh dear.... Sincerely, Christine
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, don't panic. Lecithin is not something that I do well with, but If your baby isn't ill, you shouldn't stress right now. If she can have wheat, you can use plain ground whole wheat flour that you mix with some water and simmer for a minute. You can blend oatmeal in the processor till fine and do the same thing. Just don't cook these for a long time. You can puree cooked rice and thin with water, also. I did all three for my oldest daughter who could not tolerate anything else and she thrived. She's 30 and doing well.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, I did receive your last e mail, and I thought I responded, but then my brother has sent me 3 messages this week to which I responded, but that he did not receive. I replied with a thank you for sharing your story. I'm assuming you never received it. Mike thought he fixed the problem, but we had better check again. I spend a lot of time answering e mail and would hate to think people weren't receiving them. I know some of my e mail have gotten through, however, so I don't know what is going on. Anyway, know that I received it and appreciate what you have and are going through. Keep learning and this will get easier. It's a bit overwhelming at first, so be patient with yourself.
Melissa
Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 11:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine,

I'm fairly new to the message board, but wanted to stress to you to read Dr. Blaylock's book, Excitotoxins: the Taste that Kills. I read it before I ever even found this website. It has helped me to understand how and why msg effects me and why sometimes it effects more sometimes than others, what it is doing to my brain and my body, how to prevent getting it, and handling it when I do get it to help cope. I also understand now that everyone is sensitive to it, depending on the condition of their blood brain barrier at the time of ingestion. This website is a God Send as well, esp. the "hidden names" list. My husband and I owe our health to Dr. Blaylock, Debbie A., and all of these caring people who have educated me so much, as well as all the info from this discussion board. We are truly very thankful. It is still a challenge, but we feel better than we have in years. (and we are young, 31 and 38). You may already have read this book, (as well as Debbie's which is also great) but I couldn't tell from the above postings, so I wanted to stress how important it has been in helping me, and my husband who is an athlete, and is even more sensitive at times than I am.
DebbieD
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 12:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm very new here. My doctor said that I am probably lactose intolerant (symptoms: terrible bloating, gas, contstipation) but I've been avoiding dairy and I'm still getting the 'bloat belly'. I'm using Lactaid in my coffee and occasional bowl of cereal. I'm also using soy milk and/or rice milk. I'm suspecting the Lactaid and the soymilk. I'm definately making 'the connection' and will go right to the library after work to take out some books!!! Any help will be greatly appreciated. I should say that the bloating is making me INSANE!!!! I'm very fit and try to eat as healthful as I know how- my weight is perfect but my pants don't fit the same in the afternoon as they do in the morning. (Don't fit at all in the waist). Also, I have noticed a 'weird' heart beat lately- like a flutter and sometimes it feels like it's beating hard (not fast).
Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 7:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My reactions are can be either immediate or delayed. Also, the extent of my reactions seem to vary by the quantity of the offending food. What other foods are you eating? Maybe it is not just the milk?
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 12:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debbie D., you are describing classic MSG reactions. The fluttering heart and bloating are very common signals that you could be developing a growing sensitivity to MSG. Do you use Nutrasweet, by any chance? It too, contains an excitatory neurotransmitter, aspartic acid. I used to have pairs of pants for the bloating episodes before I made the MSG connection. Lactaid, soy milk and soy products, and even some rice milks contain sources of free glutamate. You might try Rice Dream plain rice milk and see how you do. The other varieties tend to contain more glutamate. You may also discover that you can handle whole organic milk. Skim varieties contain dry milk solids which are high in free glutamate, too.
DebbieD
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 9:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was using enriched rice dream rice milk but switched last week to the plain. No soy products anymore at all. Yesterday I had the heart palpitations after not having them for a few days. I had regualr coffee and maybe it was the caffeine. I also had eggs cooked in olive oil, asparagas and zucchini steamed in the microwave. The coffee had a combination of lactaid 2% milk and unhomoginized, organic whole milk. I was soooo bloated till the evening. I was absolutely miserable. I'm going to start my food diary again and figure this out. I also just got "In Bad Taste". I'll read it this weekend. Thanks for all the information. Do you think any companies put anything in bottled water? I drink an awful lot of plain water and I'm just wondering.
DebbieD
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 9:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was using enriched rice dream rice milk but switched last week to the plain. No soy products anymore at all. Yesterday I had the heart palpitations after not having them for a few days. I had regualr coffee and maybe it was the caffeine. I also had eggs cooked in olive oil, asparagas and zucchini steamed in the microwave. The coffee had a combination of lactaid 2% milk and unhomoginized, organic whole milk. I was soooo bloated till the evening. I was absolutely miserable. I'm going to start my food diary again and figure this out. I also just got "In Bad Taste". I'll read it this weekend. Thanks for all the information. Do you think any companies put anything in bottled water? I drink an awful lot of plain water and I'm just wondering. Also, absolutely no aspartame (that I know of)
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 7:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I avoid asparagus because I thought I was getting a slight reaction to them each time. Since giving them up, I read at another web site that originates in England that sulfites are applied to keep them fresh. I don't know whether this is true or not but lately I am beginning to believe anything is possible. Most of the asparagus in our local supermarket appears to come from Chile.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 10:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I too absolutely avoid soy...it does a number on me. I do well with the original rice dream milk,however.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 3:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debbie, D, I suggest that you avoid the lactaid milk and perhaps all milk for a while and see how you feel. The caffeine may also be the culprit. The enzyme in the lactaid may break down the proteins in the milk, but one of those proteins is glutamic acid, and once broken down into free glutamic acid, you may get more of a reaction.
shirley
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 9:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am glad I am not alone. I want to use up what I have and I am afraid. How bad is potatoes and tofu? I will give away my dried tomatoes. I went to be a vegetarian chef and had reactions. I have been having reactions since a kid. I cant wait until this is over.
shirley
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 7:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am wondering if soymilk without the malt barley is ok?
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 9:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would suggest that it is best to avoid soy products with or w/o malt barley. Soy is just very high in glutamate, and even if it is bound, natural glutamate, it is still going to be broken down eventually into free glutamate in our system, adding to what we already get by mistake or otherwise. That's the reason I don't go overboard with fresh tomatoes or corn or dairy.
Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 7:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Watch out for soy. It's in everything, just like MSG.
Evelyn H.
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 10:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley--I'd personally ditch the soy milk and buy some Rice Dream original rice milk (blue carton).
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 7:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Soy appears to be in everything. If you are avoiding soy, it may help you to review this site:
http://www.spcouncil.org/uses.html

Notice how soy is being used in producing alot of foods e.g., fresh meat, fresh poultry, etc.). It is not disclosed to us on labels.

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