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'Fresh' Foods?

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DebbieD
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 8:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am very new to this but I may have 'made the connection'. I'm confused about 'fresh' foods. If I buy, for example, "all natural" chicken breasts (not antibiotics, no growth hormeones etc.) do you think that is OK? ALso, corn is a big culprit here- does that include corn on the cob from the farm market? About frozen vegetables: if the ingredient label says: spinach - is it safe? What about produce? I'm so confused- do they spray msg on it? Is organic safe? One more thing- The dr. suspects I'm lactose inolerant from my symptoms, so I've been avoiding dairy foods but I'm still using Lactaid 100% reduced milk in my coffee. I'm feeling better but only about 50% most days. I had a great week but then got the terrible bloating again and now I've had a headache for 4 days. (I ate organic chicken sausage 2 days in a row-probably a HUGE mistake right?) Also had some turkey sausage last week. SOOOO salty. I really get headaches from salty foods and bloat terribly the more I eat ANY type of processed food. I am now trying to eat a whole food type diet but I'm looking for help. I haven't read the book yet- I'm going to get it this weekend. Thanks to anyone who reads this loooong message!!!
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 3:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is no way that I will eat store or restaurant made sausage anymore. Sausage often contains unspecified spices that cause me to react just as pure MSG does --- I wouldn't put it past them to be adding MSG to the ingredients and not labelling it as such.
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 7:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi DebbieD,
You should do a keyword search on this board (under Utilities in left frame) for "milk solids" ... virtually ALL lowfat and nonfat/skim milk, and products made with them (cheese, yogurt, etc.) contain added milk solids. They add milk solids to make low/nonfat milk more aesthetically pleasing and to boost the protein content. The high-heat process used to turn milk into solids breaks down the protein in milk and creates free glutamic acid. THAT could be what's bothering you, instead of or in addition to the lactose in dairy products. Be sure to read the section on Dairy in Deb A's book.

Fresh corn on the cob should be OK; it's the processed corn products that cause problems. Probably the only way you will know if the chicken is safe is by trial-and-error, once you get a handle on all the other hidden sources of MSG. I can eat free-range organically-fed no-antibiotic chicken breast meat (try Deb A's chicken fingers recipe, yummy!), but be careful about extended cooking and leftover cooked meat, both of which tend to break down protein peptide links and free up individual amino acids, including glutamate (and tyramine).

Almost no conventional produce is safe from AuxiGro anymore, organic is a safer bet. AuxiGro is sprayed on crops as they're growing, and is taken up into the plant so you can't wash it off. Some people have reported having reactions to spinach--could be AuxiGro, could be to the oxalic acid naturally found in spinach. I only buy organic frozen veggies and am very careful about added ingredients, such as "spices."

I hope this helps--hang in there and keep asking questions or try using the keyword search feature first and then ask if you don't find what you need.
DebbieD
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 7:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all! Thanks for the info! I tried the library for information and I could'nt believe they didn't have ANY books at all on MSG. I went to the book store and had to order "In Bad Taste" and was told that Deb A's book is not available. I knew that I could get it here though. I was wondering about "spices". I wanted some dijon mustard and had to look long and hard and the best one I found still listed spice. Nothing specific. It's frustrating! I've told my mother about this web site- she suffers from debilitating migraines. I'll keep passing info along. Thanks again!!
Evelyn H.
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 10:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of fresh foods. When my sister was visiting a few weeks ago, we started talking about diet, etc. I told her what we were doing. I ordered a copy of Deb's book for her and she's now working to eliminate MSG from her family's diet. She called me last night and was asking me about apples and cherries. If she eats either fruit fresh, she gets a burning sensation in the back of her throat. If she eats either cooked, she has no problem like that. I suggested trying organic apples to see if they produce the same results. I told her it sounds like an allergy. Any ideas what this is?
Evelyn H.
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 10:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debbie D--I'd avoid any store-bought sausage. Deb A's book has some wonderful homemade sausage recipes. Also, avoid store-bought meats, most are sprayed with chemicals etc. Try to find a local farmer as a source for meat.
Anonymous
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 5:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn or anyone: Meats sprayed? (Oh boy! Just terrible!) Do you know more about this? What is used? Is it used on all meat types? What types of meats are possibly not subject to this? Is this cited in any where on the web, in books or a magazine article? Or did you learn about it through personal experience? Would love to know anything else that comes to mind about this. Evelyn --- Thanks for mentioning this!!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 9:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes Annon, there is reference to the chemicals in meat on this site. They are usually soaked in either a sodium phosphate or sodium lactate solution. Subject meats are pork, turkey, some chickens, all luncheon meats and cheeses too! These meats are in the fresh meat sections.
(actually not so FRESH)
Most shellfish in the fresh fish section of supermarkets is bathed in a sodium pyrophosphate solution!

Beware! I found out the hard way and made many calls to the actual primary meat suppliers to no avail. They just don't care!
Anonymous
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 4:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know if lamb is subject to this too? Thanks Gerry.
Evelyn H.
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 10:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous--I know that we purchased "fresh lamb" at the grocery store and when we brought it home and read the label carefully, found it was basted in some sort of solution. I now buy nearly all my meat from a local farmer who's as concerned about the meat as I am.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 8:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brace yourself for possibly more chemicals to be used to “protect” meats and vegies. I read today at http://just-food.com/news_detail.asp?art=39107&dm=yes that Farmland National Beef Packing Company LP, (the largest US farmer-owned coop) signed an agreement with DMV USA to use the new lactoferrin technology. (DMV is part of the Netherlands dairy company, Campina Melkunie and the largest producer lactoferrin.) Lactoferrin is a nutritional whey protein found in cow’s milk.

Farmland says it will protect from “pathogenic bacteria, including E. coli O157:H7, Salmonella and Campylobacter, by preventing microbial attachment and inhibiting growth”. The U.S. Department of Agriculture has yet to give approval but Farmland is proceeding to plan for use on beef products first and is opening a California lab to study use on chicken, pork, and fish ------- and fresh produce too. (Oh boy :(
Gerry Bush
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 11:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh my god!! We are doomed! Has anyone checked a can of Starkist tuna lately? There are at least 5!!!! different chemicals added to the tuna besides water!
DebbieD
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 6:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YES!!! Why can't THEY just put tuna and water in a can? Whole Foods has a few brands with tuna, water and salt or no salt. I got the whole foods brand- it was good-- no trouble. But, yesterday I ate Starkist low sodium which is supposed to be tuna, and distilled water and about an hour later I was getting heart palpitations and that "nervous energy" feeling. And, of course, the 'big belly' thing. My mayo was from whole foods too. Could have been that? I ate it on Kavli crackers.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 7:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you certain that the Starkist brand didn't have other ingredients in it? What were the ingredients in the mayo? I never assume a product from Whole Foods or any health food store is safe -- you must still read the ingredient label. For a while, carry with you the list found at http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
and keep it posted on your refrigerator. Also, definitely read Debby A's book from front to back if you haven't already.
DebbieD
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 8:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The tuna can read: tuna, distilled water.

As for the mayo, I must have read it 100 times but from memory- lets see: Organic cold pressed canola oil, eggs, vinegar, mustard bran, probably salt and I'm sure I've forgotten something but other than these ingredients I don't remember it having any of the 'tell tale' ingredients. What's up with vinegar? I know, I have to read the book. I should be getting "In Bad Taste' today or tomorrow. At least I'll be more informed after that- then I'll get DebA's book.
Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 9:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recall I ate some packaged cookies that were made with organic flour that made me suffer greatly. I read the ingredients label MANY times before having them but someway somehow, I overlooked that it contained natural flavors. Perhaps, it is worth checking the mayo bottle again?

Many of us have problems with vinegar but everyone is different. Many chemically sensitive folks won't even use vinegar to clean their floors -- again, I don't know the exact reason. There are so many different types of vinegars now that are made in different ways. I use fresh lemon just to play it safe. You can do a search on vinegar here and perhaps, you will find something.
DebbieD
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 1:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just read it again. In addition to the above there is lemon juice concentrate, apple cider vinegar, mustard powder, mustard bran and rosemary extract. ANy thoughts?
Judy T
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 2:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eeks, I can ingest no concentrates, vinegars, powders, or extracts.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 2:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beef, pork, fish and some veggies are the only things I can eat that I am not allergic to. How dare they put a milk protein on these non-allergenic items that constitute my meager choices. It makes me so upset sometimes. I hope this meeting about allergy and food labeling at the FDA on Monday straightens those idiots out. Sorry for the vitriol, but boy am I upset. I will soon no longer be able to eat anything.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 6:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am learning alot about the food business via:
http://just-food.com/recommend.asp
It is very pro-food business so you get to learn the other side of the story -- and often an upsetting one at that! I often feel what is to become of us! We need our own farm.
DebbieD
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 7:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I was young I wanted to live on a farm with lots of animals and 6 kids. I often think, now, that I should grow my own food so I know what's what. By the way- I don't live on a farm, I have 3 animals (2 cats, 1 dog) and 1 child-probably won't be having any more- she's already 5 1/2 and I'm about to turn 40!
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 3:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debbie, I have yet to find a mayo that I can tolerate. I either react to the "natural flavors" (MSG), the type of vinegar used (distilled white from grains), the mustard (MSG or the vinegar in it) or sulfites added to the mustard, vinegar, or lemon juice used. Carol, didn't you say you found a mayonnaise that you can use?
Laurie M
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 4:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know that this includes soybean oil but I have had no reactions at all from Spectrum naturals organic mayonaise. Ingredients:
expeller pressed soybean oil, organic whole eggs, water, organic honey, organic white wine vinegar, salt, organic mustard flour, organic lemon juice.

I am guessing that there isn't a big enough problem with small amount of vinegar but I am amazed that I can handle expeller pressed soybean oil. All other soy products knock me over. I am guessing that it is the expeller part. This usually means that no heat is involved at all. I hope this helps.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 4:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A, I just bought some today at Whole Foods in the refrigerated section: Delouis fils 87230 of Champsac France ~ Fresh Mayonnaise. Ingredients: sunflower oil, egg yolk, mustard, white wine vinegar, salt, lemon. I don't know if you would have trouble with sulfites, though.
DebbieD
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 6:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK- What's the deal with vinegar? I do eat alot of salads with ex.virgin olive oil and vinegar. I never feel bloated afterward though like I do with other foods. I am going to try making my own mayo. I saw on The Food Network that if you leave it out for 4-8 hours the acidity will kill any salmonella which may be present. Interesting!
Anyone make their own?
Carole
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 9:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I make the Pioneer Mayonnaise from Deb's book. Sometimes I use cider vinegar, sometimes lemon juice, and sometimes a combination of the two. It is always delicious.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 9:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Laurie and Carol, and Carole. I've been away again and just read your great suggestions for mayo. I will definitely try the Spectrum organic brand. Since the vinegar and the lemon juice are organic, they wouldn't have the sulfites in them as most others do. That's one of the main reasons I must avoid wine vinegars, white distilled vinegar, and commercial lemon juices, Debbie. You are right about expeller oils being better for us. Also, most of us do better with organic apple vinegar. The white distilled is made from grain alcohol, which usually contains sulfite(added) and glutamate residues (wheat fermentation). Rice is lower in natural glutamate, so many of us can handle unflavored rice vinegar. Products which contain natural glutamate and which are fermented become higher in free glutamic acid, which enters our blood stream more quickly. I can use regular vinegar, but not a lot of it. I do much better with the other choices.
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 1:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The FDA talks about vinegar at:
http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg555-100.html

It mentions vinegar around the 9th paragraph down as follows: "….. Presently, we authorize the manufacture of vinegar from ethyl alcohol synthesized from natural gas or petroleum derivatives. .. . . ". ("We" is the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Division, Internal Revenue Service!)

Natural gas? Petroleum derivatives? Oh, my gosh!!! Am I seeing things?
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 2:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is entirely new to me and it makes me ill to think about it. I avoid echinacea in alcohol and am glad I do. But my yam derived estrogen is in alcohol...1 drop a day. Ugh! Think I will just stick to my Climara patch, and definitely stick to
organic cider vinegar. But what about cosmetics and perfumes??
DebbieD
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 7:02 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YUCK!!! There goes vinegar OFF the list!
I imagine the really expensive, high quality balsamic vinegars from Italy would be ok to use, except for people who are sensitive to vinegar anyway.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 2:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't really like vinegar except red wine vinegar. I use fresh squeezed lemon juice instead.
IC
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 7:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debbie,

You may want to jump over to the post I made regarding tyramine and MAO at:
http://www.msgmyth.com/discus/messages/5/156.html?997927500 (at the end on 8/18)

Vinegar and especially red vinegar is an absolute no-no because of its high tyramine content. Tyramine is found in most all fermented items (including MSG).
shirley
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 9:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is wrong with organic apple cider vinegar?

I use to get pork was a street fair and was sick for two weeks. It was delicious but not enough to be sick over.

Anchovies makes me sick too, what is wrong with them?

Some pickles make me sick too, what is wrong with them?
IC
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 10:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley,

Go to the link I have listed below. On that page you will see a discussion about several naturally occurring food chemicals and at the end of each paragraph there is a link; "see section on xxxx intolerance." Click on the link and see if there are other food item problems that you have in addition to the ones you just mentioned.

If so, I'll explain the problem.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/FI_natchem.html
shirley
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 12:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wow! That is alot of stuff. I had never had a reaction from wine excepted mixed with brandy, I got a headache. I never get a reaction from raisins, grapes, and prunes.

Should I get rid of my dried tomatoes and raw tomatoe sauce I made with dried tomatoes?
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 12:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, see that you did.
IC
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 3:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirly, You should get rid of it only if it bothers you.

If there's not much there that gives you trouble, then obviously that's not it. The common thread to most (not all) of the items on the list is that they are fermented or aged.
shirley
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 4:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still didnt get information on apple cider vinegars and other organic vinegars.

Thanks!
MEMorrisNJ
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 4:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley - Read the anchovy can to us. Who produced it and what were the ingredients? (I never react to Cento anchovies or Seasons anchovies which contains only olive oil, salt and anchovies -- in fact, it is one of my rare treats that I tolerate very well.)
IC
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 5:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley,

Go to this link:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergydietitian/fi/FI_FS_amines.html

If it is vingar (especially red vingar) it is most likely a histamine reaction. In addition, you will notice that fish (and especially canned fish) is also high on the list.

If I had to guess, I would say it is a histamine or tyramine type problem. These conditions are connected to the levels of MAO in your system.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 6:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shirley, Compounds called purines are found in anchovies. People with gout should avoid anchovies. See the following link http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/~fshn/extension/gout.html
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 9:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't forget the fact that most vinegars(as mold inhibitors), and canned fish(and some fresh and frozen) contain sulfites added as preservatives. Phosphates are also used more recently and we get many reports from MSG sensitive individuals who react to them as they do to sulfites.
shirley
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 9:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had anchovies many years ago and got so sick that I never had it again so I dont have the ingredients. I am afraid to try it again. Maybe when my health returns to it fullest than I can try them in a can with no msg ingredients to try them out again?

Thanks IC for the website! I will be careful for vinegars.

I am wondering if anyone had a different reaction to organic vinegars. I have three bottles and two are closed cause I cant stand vinegars but they are called for in receipes. I wont be using red vinegars anymore. I love house dressings in restaurants, I think they add sugar that is why.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 12:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can substitute fresh lemon, orange, or lime juice for more dressings and in most other recipes.
amh
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 3:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I never have had a bad reactin to Bragg apple cider vinegar. Some people may have good luck with that brand.
shirley
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 3:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will keep it cause I only use it in moderation. I dont use it in salad dressing and wont get it again.

Thanks!

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