| Author | Message | ||
| armand
|
Hi, Deb, this is going to be a long one, sorry. Here is my story: Mid December, 2003. I was out of work for 5 months and under lots of stress from my girlfriend to find a job. I was not showing signs of depression or any physical illness. I had stopped smoking cigarettes for over a month and stopped drinking pop (soda), and was eating much healthier (no fast food, no pizza, cooking my own stuff). My plan was to lose some weight, be more healty, and get in shape. (BTW I don't drink or use drugs).... One day, inexpicibly, I felt lightheaded and sweaty (not anxiety or panic) for about 10 minutes, didn't eat anything prior. I felt fine about 15 minutes later......... About a WEEK later, I had a big plate of fried potatoes and beef chorizo (not my idea since I was trying to eat healthy, but my girlfriend cooked it), immiediately afterward I got lightheaded, and when I stood up my ears started ringing, I was fine in 10 minutes or less..... A WEEK later I got lightheaded (again not anxiety or panic) and sweaty, and disoriented, while driving, and running errands, and I had to turn around and come home. I realized I was coming down with a fever. I didn't worry becuase it WAS flu season, so I figured I had the FLU. The fever lasted 5 days, but there was no sign of runny nose, watery eyes, chest congestion, cough, sore throat, or anything like that, just a fever (through christmas). Then, I was fine for a couple of days. My girlfriend ordered chinese food from a place that we had never tried. Since I have never ever had any type of MSG reaction before I didn't think twice about it. Since I had been on a diet AND since I had had a fever, not eaten any solids, and I had lost a little weight, I felt it was okay to scarf down some chinese. This was the first big meal after my recovery from the fever. Well I got sleepy afterward, so I tried to take a nap. I couldn't get comfortable and I was having a hard time getting oxygen and breathing. I had never had athsma or an athsma attack before, but all I knew was I couldn't breath. I got scared and got up and called my friend who has athsma, and descibed my symptoms to him to see if THAT'S what it was, I noticed that I felt a little lightheaded, or slightly "stoned", or off, the room and the christmas tree lights looked surreal. It was a little disturbing. I don't know if this was from being scared or from whatever was causing my breathing problem. About 10 minutes later my breathing was okay.... I wondered about the Chinese food and knew a friend a long time ago who had got hives or red splothes one time from MSG, and I thought about the fact that I had never eaten from that place. I looked up MSG reactions on the internet and I read things that sounded like my breathing problem and lightheadedness may have been caused by the MSG in the food. I went an shoveled the walk for excercise, and I felt normal, and by morning it was a forgotten memory.... After New Years I developed another fever. Again, there was no sign of runny nose watery eyes, chest congestion, cough, sore throat, or anything else, just a fever. I was a little concerned and I bought a cobon monoxide detector, becuase of the symptoms (flu like similar to carbon monoxide poisoning) and the coincedence of having another fever so soon, and the fact that I have only lived in this house for 5 months at that time, and it has a gas heater. The carbon monoxide dector showed no problems..... Now, near the end of this fever we ordered from the SAME chinese place (smart), and I thought if I only had sesame chicken and not something with noodles I'd be okay, and that if I had wanton soup (just the soup part) I'd be okay...well I didn't have a panic attack or athsma attack but all the muscles in my face became numb and drooped for about an hour and I became EXTREMELY drowsy. After it went away, later that night i decided to test my theory and so i ate two sesame chicken pieces, and right away the same thing happened. I didn't get scared I was just like "hmm I guess I have somehow must have formed an MSG intolerance...I guess no MSG for me"..... okay, now this where things REALLY begin to get bad... By the end of this second fever I was beginning to become very sick and tired of begin sick and tired. My New Years resolution was to go get a job, but I was still sick, so in light of the stress I started to smoke again, and drink pop. And one day, while fatigued, my girlfriend (who is on prozac and thinks everyone is depressed) told me I should try one of her 20mg prozacs(fluxotine) becuase she thought it would give me energy. So I took it and it seemed like nothing happened. I am not sure exactly when the prozac and the 2nd MSG/chinese food episode crossed, but one day around Jan. 5th or so I woke up from bed and the whole room seemed to be giving off feedback. I have described it as a buzzing, but there was no ringing in my ears or any sound involved. It may have been hyperarousal, or some medical thing I don't know the name of, but I was not having anxiety, butterflies, or panic, but it was uncomfortable and wouldn't go away. It seemed to be physical as oppssed to psychological. Later, I had to drive somehwere and while driving the relentless buzzing feeling began to make me very scared and I began to panic. I fought it and the panic went away and later the buzzing went away. It came and went for the next couple of days and it began to concern me, so I went and applied for the kind of health insurance you get when you don't have any money or a job. When I saw a clinic doctor (I was to follow up with a chosen PCP) he proscribed me prozac for anxiety and depression, even though I wasn't depressed. So I took the prozac for 6 days and almost lost my mind. I had to stop immiediately after 6 days(also on the advice of more doctors) becuase each day, more and more strongly, I was having such bad anxiety that all logical feelings in my mind were slowly becoming replaced by illogical fears of dying and evil and extreme worries and I was having episodes and side effects of shaking, sweating, almost blacking out, constant dry heaving, twitching and paranoia, restlessness, derealization, and hyperactivity. 24 hours after my took last dose I was calm as the last of the last dose wore off. Before I went to bed over the next 3 nights I would have bad anxiety from the experience and possibly the remnants of the drug in my system. (I'm not saying prozac is bad for everyone, but it was bad for me)...Since then, I must note, every doctor I have seen said it was a mistake to proscribe someone with my symptoms prozac. You are NOT suppossed to take prozac for anxiety. The week after the prozac I was left with a BAD headache that slowly tapered off each day little by little.......but developed into having chronic headaches almost everyday, (By the way, the "buzzing" thing went away before I started to take the prozac and never returned)..... Now these chronic headaches would subside only like one day a week for no rhyme or reason, but I still felt a little pressure. I signed up to see a psychologist to see if he could make me deal with my bad episode with prozac and my reocurring headaches. By the time I got to see him and got to see my PCP, I was still having headaches everyday. I got referred to see a nurologist, but that appointment is a month away. In the meantime from the stress and the dealing with the daily headaches I started to smoke and eat unhealty foods, and sweets again, while trying to avoid anything with large amounts of MSG. Also, since the headaches weren't going away and my referral to a nurologist is still one month away I had began feeling depressed, and anxious with nervous tension. So I began taking HTP-5 in small doses (25 mil 3 times per day) to help deal with the bad feeling I have been having. HTP-5 is the precursor to serotonin, which is decreased in people who are depressed. Its a more natural appraoch to increase serotonin levels in your brain, then by using toxic drugs. I have been feeling a lot better on it EMOTIONALLY and I am slowly incresing the doseage to the recommended dosage with the knowledge of my doctor and pshycologist, but I still have been having spells of agoraphobia and anxiety, and I do not want to try to take another SSRI or any type of drug like Xanax. I feel like the HTP-5 is slowly making the depression better, but for Anxiety I was doing research and have read many times over and cross refernced that GABA would be the other side of the seritonin supplemtation to fight anxiety, but I don't know if I should take GABA or Glutamine (the amino acid precursor to GABA), becuase of the reactions I had to MSG. All I want to do is feel normal again and I don't know how my brain became so badly out of whack in such a short time. Sometimes the anxiety feeling is so bad that I have considered suicide. I want to avoid drugs and try a natural approach and I am also planning on quitting smoking and trying the healthy eating appraoch again, however, I want to do one thing at a time so I don't mix my symptoms and can keep track of how each change is affecting my body. I have not had lightheadedness or any MSG attacks since the 2nd Chinese food episode. Now for some background: I am 32. Overweight, I do not over eat, but I do not eat healthy. I have no prior medical history of any chronic illness or anything happening to me. I have been in good shape before and have followed a strict lifestyle eating plan and excercise regimine when I was single. I have no history of mental illness. I have no history of headaches, AT ALL! I have never had a panic attack before this. I have never had ANY anxiety before. I normally am a very confident, very happy, person. I am a father, and I am very well respected by my family and friends and someone who everyone goes to for help with their problems and for reassurance and support, so this is very hard to deal with, becuase I feel like I am falling apart and cannot be there for them. The HTP-5 is helping, but I want to supplement it with something natural that will affect the neurotranmitter GABA to help with the anxiety part of my problem, to have a combonation approach, a full approach, which is recommended for someone with my symptoms. Here are my questions to you: 1.) What is your opinion on GABA and Glutamine 2.) Does one bulid a tolerance to eating MSG and related foods over a time? 3.) Can someone who has never had an MSG food reaction suddenly get them? 4.) If one is USED to ALWAYS eating unhealthy food for the majority of the time and then switches to healthy eating habits and drops smoking (within a month and a half period), could they suddenly experince some MSG reaction from MSG ridden food or fried potatoes, even if they have never had an effect before on you? 5.) Perhaps by having weakened some of the glucose enzymes that are used to breaking down junk food? 6.) Have you ever heard of any of these elements happeneing to someone before? 7.) If glutamine is a precursor to GABA which regulates all the neurotransmitters, but I have had those MSG reactions, should I NOT take glutamine? 9.) Do you have any suggestions of how to naturally raise GABA in your brain? 9.) Can having a fever or stress weaken your abilty to assimilate MSG? | ||
| Deb A. |
Armand, I have just printed up your posting and will read it again in the morning and get back to you. I have been out of town for a week helping my mother who has had a knee replacement, and am trying to catch up with the discussion board, and getting ready for an open house here tomorrow...trying to sell. I suggest strongly that you get our book as it will answer many of the questions you have here and also ones that will arise. I will respond to your questions ASAP. In the mean time, know that even though you may believe you are avoiding MSG, you are still probably not getting enough to cause the most severe of your reactions, but enough to cause the ones you are having most often now. Glutamate is the real culprit and reactions can be dosage related. A toxicity level in ones system builds slowly over time to a level when it begins to manifest itself as yours has.Since I am terribly sleepy at this point, I will get back to you soon and hope that others here will be able to help you, too. I know that Carol has a wonderful understanding of many of the brain chemicals you have mentioned. | ||
| DJ |
HI Armand! Welcome to our board.. I don't know the answers to most of your questions, but getting Deb's book ASAP would be a very good first step... A second step would be to start now eating only whole natural foods, and become an ingredient reader for everything that you put into your mouth.... I have been off MSG for a long time now....but if i do accidently get it into my system, one of the FIRST symptoms for me is anxiety....this has happened to me when driving, and is SO difficult that i also have to just turn around and go home...fortunately, my daughter knows all about this and we laugh about it....("Mom is having a nervous breakdown in the parking lot of the Super Fresh") ha ha ha.....you see, this might be hard to believe, but the anxiety and confusion becomes so extreme that i have a difficult time telling the brake pedal from the gas.....really! Of course, it goes away eventually, but it is frightening when it is happening.... MSG in my opinion, builds up in the system until one day your body just goes "TILT".... Hope this helps some....you are not alone in your symptoms....MSG avoidance will make you feel much better....it is the only way! DJ | ||
| Carol H |
Armand, I understand what you are going through. It is frightening, but realize that depression can be worsened by not only MSG, but also stress itself. Simply being unemployed has put a lot of pressure on you. Try everything you can to ease some of the stress you are under - it will be easier for you to look for work when you feel better. I am taking SSRI's now and notice a definite difference in how I feel when I have a stressful week - it's almost like the medicine isn't working. Also, MSG has some links to depression. Not only do the Chinese now have their very own obesity problem, but they are suffering from depression now too - 42% of the world's suicides are in China. New drugs to treat depression are glutamate blockers. GABA is actually made from MSG in the body. Some of us are not that good at converting MSG to GABA. Taking more GABA may not help us get rid of MSG we may eat. Glutamine - although similar in name is not the same thing as glutamate. Some people have said it helped them. There are some things you used to do that actually may have helped prevent MSG reactions. For instance - and I hate to say this - smoking. Nicotine is a glutamate blocker. However, cigarette manufacturers put MSG into some cigarettes. If you cannot quit smoking just yet, at least find a brand with no additives at all. As for sweets, don't cut down on your carbs right now. Carbs are critical for maintaining mental health. They enable more tryptophan to the brain to be turned into seratonin. Worry more about the quantity that you are eating than whether it is sweet or not right now. Not eating enough will lower your blood sugar and weaken the blood-brain barrier so even more MSG may get to the brain. Even so - MSG has direct access to the hypothalamus in the brain. That is the part of the brain that regulates temperature. Perhaps this may have something to do with the fevers you had. Most of us on this board never noticed being sensitive to MSG until a major event caused us to become aware that perhaps it has been affecting us all along. It usually got worse over time. Once we get it out of our systems for a while and become healthier we then become able to withstand an occasional poisoning, but we try as hard as we can to avoid it at all costs. The Chorizo you had was probably the culprit in that meal you ate. It is used often in Latino cooking. Please tell me your girlfriend does not use Adobo seasoning on your food. That, along with Chorizo is found in most Latino homes, and is absolutely LOADED with MSG. You may be inadvertantly jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire (so to speak) by eating that stuff. The good thing about avoiding MSG, though is that you may find it easier to lose weight. I would start by walking a little bit - excercise also increases the good brain chemicals - but don't overdo it, you don't want to deplete your blood sugar too fast either. I would check the spice cabinet my partner cooks from to make sure MSG-containing gravy mix, or dried soup or Adobo seasoning doesn't find it's way into "homemade" food. I would eat my carbs, but not too many. I would listen to music more - it also helps relieve stress. And, I would do whatever the doctor tells me right now. Depression is a serious illness but one that can be managed. But the sooner you realize it is all about chemicals and not about blaming yourself, the better. MSG is creating a world of chronically depressed people out there. We need to get rid of the stigma of this diagnosis. If a tiny little pill of Effexor can actually help me get out of bed in the morning and do what I need to do and not shrink from the overwhelming heaviness of it all, that is a pretty powerful example of how chemicals can affect our bodies dramatically. Avoiding MSG - a different chemical - is the other major thing I do to manage my depression. Please check in with us and tell us how you are doing. We're all here to help... | ||
| Roy Piwovar
|
Armand, It sounds like the doctors are trying to treat the symptoms without getting at the cause. You need to take a list of all sources of MSG and go through your pantry to root out the offending items. Check for aspartame as well. You can print out the list linked below and go grocery shopping with it. You may find it takes forever to fill your cart with all the label reading, but it gets easier with each shopping trip. Eating food others have cooked is more risky. I find it easier to bring friends something to serve me rather than give crash courses in MSG-free shopping. If I get burned with an MSG reaction anyway, I find that 2 or 3 ibuprofen, a glutamate blocker, will quickly reverse my developing mental symptoms back to normal. It should also help with a fever. Good luck! http://www.ideatown.com/ntxa/neurotoxinlist.htm | ||
| Deb A. |
I was so relieved to check in this evening and see that so many of you responded to Armard. You covered everything I was going to say and much more. Armand, we have been where you are now and know it feels very overwhelming right now. Be patient with yourself and your reactions. It gets easier to avoid MSG, but it takes some time to learn about it. You can reclaim your good health...it takes some vigilance, but you can do it. And you will be eating better than you have been in years...better than your friends are, too....many of them are probably reacting to glutamate and don't know it. Trust what your body tells you. If you have a reaction, reexamine what you have been eating up to 2 days prior to reacting. It can take anywhere from a few hours to 2 or 3 days to experience an MSG reaction. It's a good idea to keep a food journal for this reason. Record how you feel at the beginning and at the end of each day and circle suspicious food items you have been eating. It can take 3 turn to 6 days to feel well again after an MSG poisoning. Take care and let us help you if we can. When you have had a bad reaction, take some Ibuprofen (up to 4) and you can take an antihistamine like Benedryl (pill form) and see if that helps...a hot soak in the tub with some epson salts or baking soda, drinking lots of water, and some form of aerobic exercises have helped some people during a reaction. | ||
| armand
|
First of all I would like to say that I truly appreciate the response to my post. It means a great deal to me. I am trying to initiate a change in my eating lyfestyle, and it TRULY IS difficult. I will post my results as I begin to refine my diet into completely removing MSG and other things like asparteme. I was wondering if in the meantime, anyone can direct me to a section on the website of success stories, for inspiration along the way. I am still feeling these following symptoms that seem to trade off everyday: - headache with a cold like feeling (as if there is a ball of phlem in your head) - hung over feeling/ inability to concentrate/ - extremely lethargic - inexcplicable butterflies/ anxiety - extreme nervousness/ sweaty palms/ panicy - spaced out feeling These never seem to happen together, but none are worth any sort of trade off for another. I saw a psychaitrist and he said he believes that since I am overweight that it is likely that the prozac I took for 6 days may have been stored in my body fat, and is slowly being released, and that I should be getting better soon as the prozac completely leaves my body. I would also like to say that I have never had any MSG reactions before the ones I experienced in late December 2003, and early January 2004, but I have always strange reactions to things like for instance when I was a teenager I could never partake in smoking pot becuase the few times I tried I stayed "high" for 2 whole days afterward; Or I cannot have percings becuase I get keloids very easily; I cannot wear watches or jewellery becuase they irritate my skin; there was about 6 months once where I couldn't wear deoderant becuase I would develop a rash; When I drink Mountain Dew or Coffee I get sleepy, instead of wired; if anyone touched my face I would break out on that spot, even though I have a good complexion, and no acne problems; My belt, pants waistband give me skin irritation on my abdomen. etc. But, although I hadn't ever had MSG reactions before, I am going to follow the no MSG advice. I would also like to know if the Book is available at a book store, or health food store? Also any opinions on fish oil, 5-HTP, or SAMe (S-adenosyl Methione)? Thanks! | ||
| Carol S.
|
Hi Armand, I can't believe we have some of the same symptoms. When I have a sinus infection, I get what I call "heavy head". I feel like I have a hang over and I've never been a drinker. I have headaches during all my sinus infections which is normal. My neck glands swell and I am exhausted. During my entire life I've had trouble wearing pierced earrings because I always get a rash or an infection. I can't wear earrings two days in a row. I need to wear cotton slacks and tuck in my cotton shirt or go without a belt, otherwise I develop a rash. I'm sure my rash issues are allergy and MSG related. I think the information about storage in body fat is very interesting. This is the second time I've heard that thought. I purchased Deb's book in February and have enjoyed many safe recipes. Go for it... Learn as much as you can!! | ||
| Deb A. |
Armand, a book store can order it from us, but it takes forever and costs more. You can order the book at our site at www.msgmyth.com. Email me at avenger@msgmyth.com if you have any questions. At our site are uplifting testimonials. Carol, S., I'm so happy for you! Keep getting well.  | ||
| Carol S.
|
Will do and thanks Deb! |
