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I need lots of help

Battling the MSG Myth » "Help! I've Just Made the MSG Connection" » I need lots of help « Previous Next »

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welsh sara
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 5:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been trying to follow the diet while i wait for my book to come and i dont even know if i'm MSG intolerant.
I'll tell you about me and my symtoms. I'm a 42 yr old woman from wales I have had symtoms for about 6 yrs from headaches which i've had a MRI for (nothing found)and been seeing a cardiologist. My symtoms are feeling drunk, heart palpitations, burning in my mouth, flushing and extreme fatigue. The feeling drunk, burning mouth and fatigue i seem to have all the time now. I told my family that i thought it was an intolarance to MSG but they think i'm nuts but when i saw my dr in the week she said follow the diet.
Do you think I'm Nuts or should I follow the diet and did anyone else have the symtoms all the time or do they just happen after eating for most people.
Thanks Sara
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 11:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

welsh sara, I don't know about the feeling drunk, but the rest of your symptoms sound like a lot of other peoples reactions to MSG. Have you looked at the topic "Share your MSG Story/Recovery"? It's the 5th one on the list. Posters have listed quite a few different symptoms, might be interesting to you. Also you can do a search for any symptom, just click on "search" at the top and fill in the blanks.
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 11:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sarah, ive read just about every one of your symptoms on here from someone. Its amazing how differently people are affected. For me its IBS, flushing and while i never had a burning mouth prior to eliminating all processed foods, i feel that now on the odd occasion im tempted!! I guess the only way to know for sure is to try the diet and see how you feel. Good luck, i hope you get some relief from those nasty symptoms. Ali (im in ireland by the way and originally from Manchester and enjoyed many childhood holidays in Wales :-) )
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 11:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi sara...
i am still new here to the board but have been environmentally sensitive for many years. your symptoms sound exactly like what everyone on this board describes. DebA and Carol H. and some of the others can tell you exactly how potent- and poisonous- the effects of excitotoxins such as glutamate really are.
why some of us experience worse or more constant effects than others has to be related to our own levels of sensitivity and tolerance. lots of people dont seem to experience anything at all, and they will be happy to convince you that it is all in your head.
but how many people who go thru life blissfully unaware of any sort of chemical reaction ultimately get downed suddenly by heart disease, diabetes or some form of cancer??

...while it is the pits to be constantly struggling with environmental illness and plaguing symptoms such as you describe, it might help some to see it as your 'early warning system' -fully in place and operational :-) Really! becoz one is a lot more likely to be careful about the toxins in one's life when constantly reminded, as you are...

its really really hard in the beginning, especially when you are dealing with multiple unidentified sensitivities and nothing you do seems to help. but dont give up!! stay on the diet and keep experimenting! ask LOTS of questions! and feel free to whine a little too... everyone here is in the same boat and soooo ready to share. eventually you will realize that you have valuable info and insights to share too!
so please be encouraged- you are on the right path

as for the burning mouth thing... it seems to be very common... i know my mouth and tongue burn from even a little Torula Yeast which is used for BBQ/smoky type flavourings. i also get cracks and fissures at the corners, and a shiny sore red tongue, from deficiencies in the B-complex.... which can have a lot to do with fatigue also... but be careful of 'nutritional yeast', becoz depending on your level of glutamate sensitivity supplements can end up doing as much or more harm than good. so do experiment- but with caution! Kristy has lots of good advice on supplements from her own family's experience- i have learned lots from her. and Roy Piwovar always posts the most excellent links to all sorts of research!
another thing, all toothpastes make my tongue coated and the roof of my mouth to start peeling- even after one use now!- so for the past 6 months or so i have used baking soda with 2 drops of mint extract only. (voila- no more canker sores)

palpitations also seem pretty much unanimous on this forum... you are in good company... have you read any of the posts about A-fib reactions to msg? Tom Fernstroms posts have a lot to say about his experiences with it, for example...
i personally discovered my palpitations, also itchy feet/restless legs, were directly related to a bad magnesium deficiency (probly due to my digestive problems from soy)... they have mostly gone away since i started taking a liquid magnesium chloride preparation (basically desalinated seawater) suggested by another poster.

reactions really vary by the individual... everyone is different... the best advice i can offer is LISTEN TO YOUR BODY- your instincts are often right on target. try not to get too down when feeling like no one really believes you... remember that here on this site at least, you are part of a community of like-minded sufferers from all over the world. you mentioned you are in Wales- ali is in Ireland and perhaps has some ideas that are particularly relevant to your part of the world. but no matter where we live, we are all here on this board to learn from and be a help to one another!
GOD BLESS and Keep Posting!
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh, sara- one other thing, about MRI's. funnily enough, my younger son just had one yesterday. his first... and last. he is still experiencing the after-effects of this supposedly '100% safe, non-invasive' procedure.
becoz only a minority of people experience side effects, they claim there are none. well, hind sight is always so much better...
my son's experience was nowhere near as gnarly as it could have been... but i still really wish i had done my homework beforehand!

hopefully you did not experience any problems from your mri, but i am including a link to another board just as a fyi...
(our post is #228)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 2:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara, I am glad to see that you have found this forum. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks if the diet helps your symptoms subside. I do have a theory about the feeling drunk. That seems to go hand in hand with a candida albicans overgrowth because they give off alcohol as a byproduct. Maybe you really are drunk (or suffering a hangover thus the headaches) all the time. In any case, the test diet will help you feel better. I found it much easier when I first started to go to a fresh-foods-cooked-from-scratch diet. Rather than trying to find safe brands of food with my limited list of foods that I could tolerate, I feel that I started healing much faster once I was able to find safe sources of the main parts of my diet like meat, fresh produce, salt, butter and spices and make everything from those ingredients.

Since you seem to have a problem with candida, you will start feeling better much quicker if you leave starchy veg like potato, bread and other wheat products, sugar and rice out of your diet for a while. You will feel like crap as the candida start starving and dying off but after a short period you will feel a lot of improvement. Once you feel better you can start experimenting with stuff to add back into your diet slowly with the help of a food journal.

When I first began I was so sensitive I couldn't even tolerate fresh tomatoes or beef roasted at home, but now I can eat anything as long as it is homemade from the right ingredients. My daughter is still a little sensitive to certain foods like cocoa, but we are allergic to corn as well so it may be a corn problem. (Corn is in everything in the States so it is hard to eliminate it as the problem) Anyway, sorry you are having health issues but good for you for taking control of your eating and seeking answers on your own! You will feel better, just hang in there. ~Kristy
welsh sara
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 8:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everyone and thanks for the advice. I have been reading some of the other things on the forum and hope that the diet helps my symtoms cant do any harm except my cooking is not that good i'll have to practice i've already burnt rice and turkey but i did like the rice with milk and sugar but i used nutmeg. I was once told not to eat anything if it had something in it that I couldn't pronounce and not to eat anything with more than four items on the ingredient list maybe i should have taken more notice. Thanks Sara
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 8:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara, My cooking skills have improved so much over the last few months. Its a steep learning curve. But you know what, what seemed like such a daunting task is now an absolute joy. I have so much more energy and vitality since changing the way i eat, my moods have improved SO much, i have the patience to enjoy my time in the kitchen. Its now something of a hobby. And trust me, my kitchen was not on my list of hobbies!!! lol The advice you were given is good advice. I just dont buy processed food anymore. I think you may find a few months down the line that you lose the desire for all the supposed "goodies" you used to rely on. Good luck with the diet. I really hope that you find as much pleasure and delight in it over the coming weeks as i have. Hopefully you will soon be feeling so much better too. With regards the nutmeg, i use nutmeg quite a lot and have no issues with it. But im unsure as to wether it is recommended in the trial diet. Maybe someone else will shed some light on that.

If you decide that msg and its many aliases are the culprit for your symptoms and decide to stick to the that way of eating and cooking, we could maybe swap ingredients and product info on what we find safe. A lot of the branding in Ireland is much the same as the rest of the UK. Just a thought for further down the line.... Ali
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 8:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Welcome to MSGMyth. Perhaps it might help if you to understand the cover-up of hidden MSG by reading my article:

Have you checked your hygiene products for the ingredients that contain unlabeled free glutamic acid (MSG)? Most soaps, shampoos and toothpastes often have them.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 4:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, bo'nana, and I should mention that "tongue burn" is one of my most reliable indicators of MSG.

Sara, I've also found nutmeg to be the perfect spice to use in combination with rice, milk and sugar. I have no issues with nutmeg, either, although I've read that:

"Nutmeg’s flavour and fragrance come from oil of myristica, containing myristicin, a poisonous narcotic. Myristicin can cause hallucinations, vomiting, epileptic symptoms and large dosages can cause death. These effects will not be induced, however, even with generous culinary usage."

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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 1:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rice Powder ?

Hi, I'm a newbie & so happy to have found this website.

Is the Rice Powder found in Vitamins, Minerals, & sometimes Herbs, MSG safe? Or have you ever found that the Rice Powder contaminated with free-glutimate?

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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 7:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pat be very careful not to rely on prepared supplements for your nutrition. Many people who first come here have been ill for years and have turned to vitamins and other supplements in an attempt to regain their health. If you begin to change your diet from processed foods to fresh fruits, vegetables, meats and grains, you will be getting real vitamins that the body will utilize a LOT more than those in the bottle. As for fillers, rice flour is probably better than most, especially if it is brown rice flour. Watch out for maltodextrin, yeast derivatives, soy, gluten, etc.
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Welsh sara, what is going on in the UK? We've had several orders from there and also from South Africa, recently. When that happens, it's often due to some media report about MSG. We're so happy you found us. Your symptoms are very typical of many of the reports I have gotten over the years...people like you suffering from glutamate toxicity, as I like to call it. Read all you can and trust what your body tells you about the foods you eat. Remember, it can take a full day to get a reaction after ingesting MSG. You can keep a journal at first, recording all you eat and how you feel each morning and evening. If and when you get a reaction, record that and look back over the last day or two, circling all suspicious foods. Eliminate these and see how you do...introduce one of these items later if you want to test it. My husband's family is of Welsh descent on both sides...with a name like Anglesey, you probably guessed that...many Owens, Phillips, Gwens as given names.
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the newbies: My two teenagers and I are allergic to corn and most msg additives are made from corn. I have come to realize that if something is safe for us because it has no corn, then it is without msg/fga additives. Because of this, I thought you might like some links about corn-free food brands and avoiding corn (which effectively avoids fga).

I just wanted to add that we've never eaten better in our lives as we have since cutting out all food additives. I made a flat bread with garlic, onions, peppers and thyme last night using my quick bread recipe and we've had it split open with Kerrygold cheese on top melted in the broiler with farmers market tomato slices or egg salad with homemade mayo for meals today. I wouldn't go back to the days of store bought yeast bread and deli meat with soybean oil mayo and American cheese for all the money in the world! (American cheese: does anyone else think it is terribly sad that this is the cheese America is known for?!)

Sara and Roy, my new favorite spices are ginger (fresh if possible) and cardamom. Both are very good in dairy desserts and sweet potatoes/winter squash. We like it in waffles, muffins and carrot cake, too. For potato, egg, tuna salad, cole slaw and mayo I like sumac. These are spices that I might never have even tried if not for my food allergy. Everything just tastes so much better now that we know how to avoid even the hidden additives.

Pat, Rice powder may contain fga type additives as a preservative (a lot of dehydrated powders contain sulphates). Most vitamin and mineral supplements contain cornstarch or dextrose. Many have maltodextrin used in the manufacturing process. There are corn-free vitamins and minerals but many are not safe even if the label "looks clean". You may be able to find info on a particular one by using the search either on here or the avoiding corn forum.
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Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 5:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb & kristy. I’ve had reactions my entire life. I can tell within 10-20 min if a food will affect me.

It makes me tired & then I pass out for 1-3 hrs in a dream world. Can’t move a muscle or talk…..couldn’t save myself in a fire. Never had headache…..if I had, I would have suspected MSG & related culprits (maltodetrin, dextrose, etc) ions ago. This particular issue does not run in my family, but doesn’t mean they are not affected with other ailments that may be caused by MSG.

Worse yet…..anything, even water & raw veggies & fruit within 24 hrs after a reaction set off my continual passing out… a chain reaction. I used to blame so many things that people thought I was a hypochondriac!

I’m not celiac. Purch’d a box of plain Shredded Wheat cereal recently. Only ingredients are wheat & BHT, a preservative. Passed out.

The smallest amt of Raw Sunflower Seeds make me pass out unless I rinse them in water before eating & then I’m fine.

I read Health & Nutrition Secrets by Blaylock, & amongst other things, he suggests antioxidants (CoQ10 & Alpha Lipioc Acid. I break open the capsules & mix them with a little fat-free Choiban yogurt (contains no gelatin)…..seems to work. I’m working on getting Deb’s book, which I’m sure will be ever so enlightening.

I don’t seem to be allergic to the rice powder, but was curious about other’s reactions. I called Swanson Vitamin’s Product Specialist today & they said there were no sulfites or preservatives used in the rice powder. When asked why they don’t just eliminate the rice powder & offer smaller capsules, their response was that some formulas are sticky or can absorb moisture & that the ‘mfgr’ uses it to dry out the contents for ease of filling the caps.

As a result of taking trans-fat out of foods, I note they are adding back palm & coconut oils.

Now food companies have agreed to reduce sodium from many products. I’ll bet they will up the MSG content! Everyone’s health is at stake.

Life is certainly a challenge & while I enjoy getting down to the bottom of things, sometimes I feel like I’m on info overload.

welsh sara
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 7:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks everyone I need all the info I can get. Ali I think that's a great idea but i think my help to you will be limited as I havent got a clue.
Thanks Roy for the nutmeg thing all the years of saying no and now i'm sprinkling narcotics on my breakfast great (shame on me).
DebA I came to the Msg thing Friday when I had a bad night after a take-away but to be honest I thought Msg had been banned, but saw it on the back of a crisp packet after i came back from shopping until then it hadn't crossed my mind so thats how I found your site I typed Msg into google, when i mentioned it to my partner he didn't know what I was talking about and is still refusing to eat anything fresh (might be my cooking) but he is taking me to a farmers market on Friday.
I love your name your husbands family couldn't have come from anywhere else really.
Thanks for the help Sara
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 10:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pat, I suffered for over 20 years without a clue what my problem was, too. To this day (after having a clean diet for over a year), ingesting hidden corn derivatives first makes my face turn red and my eyes itchy and then sends me into my "zombie" state. I must sleep (even if I am driving or walking) and feel as if I have been drugged. This reaction is called narcolepsy and it is followed by insomnia for me. When I get "corned", I know that my sleep schedule and routine will be messed up for days after. I feel like I lose days of my life since I am pretty much worthless for a couple of days each time. I believe you are a victim of hidden corn additives. Raw fruit and veggies from the grocery store are usually rinsed in citric acid, gassed with ethylene or coated with a corn wax (all GMO corn derivatives). Other basic ingredients can contain corn derivatives even if the label looks "clean", so the secret is learning to avoid these hidden landmines. It takes practice and diligence, but you can do it. Now the only time we ingest something is when we are trying a new product. You can read more about avoiding hidden additives in my blog post about it:
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 10:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kristy, I share your descriptions of ‘zombie, drugged & sleeping’. I get dry eyes too. My test for narcolepsy was negative tho. I don’t make a habit of eating fresh corn & plain dry popped popcorn, but I can & do so without reactions – probably all are GMO too :-( . But it’s a great suggestion, so I’ll do kinesiology testing just to be sure.

When a whole grain cereal containing maltodextrin sent me into a tailspin last year, I avoided it. Ditto for malted barley & dextrose. I always avoided sugar. But I was still having reactions with other foods, water, etc. It wasn’t until I researched natural flavorings, which are another culprit – even if it is the last ingredient. I then connected the dots to what hides & masquerades under the MSG label.

I get similar reactions if I eat the ‘clean’ diet after 8 pm… that point, maybe it’s a circadian issue.

I’ll be following Dr. Blaylock’s suggestions (antioxidants, vitamins) as soon as I get my shipment & will report back.

The Chobani yogurt people confirmed no gelatin or dry milk is used in any of their yogurts, TG. While Dr. Blaylock suggested avoiding milk products, I need to mix the contents of those capsules with something to hide the awful taste. For now, Chobani yogurt is my weapon of choice.

What’s the final verdict on MSM? Are we MSM (sulfur) deficient too?
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Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 11:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pat, vitamins are very hard to find without additives and corn derivatives. I hope the ones you ordered don't have any, but most vitamins are manufactured using corn derivatives that aren't listed on the label - we avoid anything enriched for this very reason. Just be aware of this fact so that if you start reacting to something you can narrow down the source quicker.

Chobani plain and honey flavors seem to have a pretty clean label and is strained for thickness instead of using pectin or gelatin. All of the flavored ones have pectin, evaporated cane juice and locust bean gum which I avoid.
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Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 2:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

POST advised that the BHT (that I am allergic to) in the plain Shredded Wheat cereal is a synthetic Vitamin E preservative which is sprayed on the inside of the plastic pouch, not in or on the cereal. So, as an experiment I rinse the shredded wheat a few times & then ate it…..with no negative reactions!

So with that in mind kristy, do you think it’s possible for someone to be only allergic to dextrose & nothing else on that long list of corn derivatives?

I am now experimenting with Dr. Blaylock’s suggested list, which consists mostly of Antioxidants (ie CoQ10, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Tyrosine, Acetyl L Carnitine, Grape Seed Extract) and some Vitamins (C Buffered Ascorbate , Dry E), Fish & Primrose Oils, Chromium, Curcumin.

So far, I find taking the CoQ 10 (Ubiquinol) ahead of an offending allergin (ie natural flavoring) to be a success. Depending on the anticipated dose of allergin, I might take Alpha Lipoic Acid afterwards.

To avoid the gelatin caps, I ingest the contents of the liquid caps via a puncture & squeeze method. I open the dry caps (containing Rice Powder) & take them mixed in water. Most easily dissolve in water. The Alpha Lipoic doesn’t, so I open the cap, semi mix it, then down it with water.

Basically, Dr. Blaylock’s ‘antidote’ recommendations seem to be a success with me, TG.

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Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 2:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone mentioned this website & it was an enlightening read, esp:

"How have Italians survived as celiacs?

Understanding this principle gives us tremendous insight into how Italians have survived over the years being a pasta-based culture. They drink wine with their meals and eat their oil and vinegar-soaked salad after their meals. Their appetizers (antipasto) are usually high fat meats (e.g. salami, prosciutto) and those items marinated in olive oil or vinegar. The fat and oil protects the villi from the attachment of gluten and casein in their upcoming main course while the vinegar and wine washes clean what does manage to attach. The fiber from the salad then scrubs the villi clean. It’s like soaking a paintbrush in mineral spirits then wiping it clean. How cool is that?

“Today’s man-made gluten is not good for anyone or anything that consumes it. It is simply better tolerated by some than others.” Yes, we did this to ourselves. There is now evidence that original wheat (einkorn) does not even elicit a reaction in known gluten intolerants. Amazing. The history of wheat, dairy, soy and corn tell us all that we need to know: Man messes up everything that he touches in nature.

Gluten is not alone!
The bad news? Gluten is only one of the culprits. We now have to deal with casein, soy and corn, all of which are capable of duplicating gluten’s harm. Many can understand how our Germanic ancestors made a serious mistake in creating common wheat 1500 years go. But most have not seen the gravity of our dairy choice, jumping from goat’s milk (the “universal foster milk”) to cow’s milk. We even chose the wrong cow (A1 vs A2 cattle). Soy was the Asian mistake and I rue the day they ever dug it out of the ground and decided to start eating it. Corn took thousands of years to cultivate and now it can’t even reproduce on its own…and kills other plants (Google “corn gluten meal’). No wonder it is a major allergen in children, especially the GMO version."

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Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 10:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pat, that is a fascinating read, and follows the same line of thought i have also been pondering for some time...
thank you for submitting that
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Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 10:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bo'nana, you're welcome. It was certainly great insight! Maybe my next doctor should be a veterinarian!

Antipasto = anti-pasta = anti-gluten (& casein)

Who would have guessed the "antipasto's fat & oil protects the villi from the attachment of gluten & casein in their upcoming main course while the vinegar & wine washes clean what does manage to attach".

I had Tinnitus for about 4 yrs. Sometimes it would alternate from one ear to the other. I noticed that (only) coconut oil &/or sesame tahini greatly lessened the ringing by approx 80-90%.

Those potent oils were the healing factor. Now I know why. The oils protected the villi & the villi are indirectly related to the ears! Go figure!

Now I eat my salad after my meal.

Finally, I eliminated the MSG culprits & my Tinnitus is miraculously gone.....24/7 for the past 3 weeks.

Silence is once again beautiful!
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Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 10:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G.A.R.D. & esp #'s 15-20 are interesting points also.

GARD originally stood for the “glutamate-aspartate restricted diet” after its limitation of these two non-essential, neurostimulating amino acids that are also the parent compounds of MSG and aspartame (NutraSweet) respectively. They are now termed “excitotoxins” and known triggers of seizures and inciters of some neurodegenerative diseases. However, the G.A.R.D. also stands for the “gut absorption recovery diet” due to its removal of the "big" 4 foods (gluten, dairy, soy and corn), which are all capable of inducing the damage to the intestinal villi that characterizes celiac disease and the related food intolerances.

Continued here:


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