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Taurine & Magnesium

Battling the MSG Myth » "Help! I Have a Question" » Taurine & Magnesium « Previous Next »

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Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 8:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ah, i took some taurine and had the worst reaction from it. i dont know why. i hear red clove blocks msg damage in the brain!
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 3:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, per a study in the Phytomedicine Journal, red clover does block msg damage.

(copy and paste as the web address did not completely convert to a link)

"The phytoestrogenic isoflavones from Trifolium pratense L. (Red clover) protects human cortical neurons from glutamate toxicity

Francesco Occhiuto, Giuseppe Zangla, Stefania Samperi, Dora Rita Palumbo, Annalisa Pino, Rita De Pasquale, Clara Circosta

The endogenous steroid estrogen has been shown to affect neuronal growth, differentiation and survival. Genistein, daidzein and other isoflavones have been shown to mimic the pharmacological actions of the gonadal steroid estrogen with which they have structural similarities. Several studies have looked at the effect of isoflavones in the brain. In the present study, human cortical cell line HCN 1-A maintained in culture was used to test the neuroprotective efficacy of a natural mixture of phytoestrogenic isoflavones (genistein, daidzein, biochanin A and formononetin) from Red clover against glutamate toxicity. Neuronal viability was determined by MTT or trypan blue test and neuronal membrane damage was quantitatively measured by lactate dehydrogenase (LDH).

The results obtained indicate that exposure of HCN 1-A cell cultures to glutamate resulted in concentration-dependent decreases in neuron viability. Concentration of glutamate ranging from 0.01 to 5mM was toxic to these cultures. A 24-h pretreatment with 0.5, 1 and 2ėg/ml isoflavones enriched fraction (IEF) significantly increased cell survival and significantly decreased cellular lactate dehydrogenase release from differenziated cortical neurons, indicating that neurons treated with isoflavones were protected from the cell death induced by glutamate exposure. Moreover, the pretreatment with IEF prevented the morphological disruption caused by glutamate as shown by microscopical inspection. These findings indicate that IEF has a neuroprotective effect in human cortical neurons and that this effect might be resulted from his antioxidant and estrogenic actions."
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 3:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A few pages to read about red clover if you plan to take it:
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 10:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like a possible PMS treatment. Also a tantalizing clue why men & women often have such different manifestations of neurological problems (autism vs. fibromyalgia).

Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 12:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A few questions...
Three years ago I realized my MSG sensitivities among other stuff. Preservatives and sulfites as well. Our local paper is doing an article on chronic underdiagnosed illnesses and the effect of the illness on a person socially, financially and personally. Wondering if you all had an opinion as to if I should do this story as they want to spotlight my plight in figuring out my own issues and receiving very little medical support. What would you all focus on in the article re: MSG etc? It has been an absolutely overwhelming struggle as I am positive all of you can attest to. I still am not even 80% better but I am better with a clear diet and accupuncture. ***I still have muscle inflammation which leads to lightheadedness and "fogginess" and sinus inflammation and I can not for the life of me figure this last remaining component out. Thinking maybe pesticides in my valley?? My muscles seize up around my neck and back where I have had two whip lash episodes in the past.

My typical reaction to MSG, preservatives, chemicals was hives, itching skin like needles being poked through my skin, hairloss, ears ringing, muscles seizing up, dizziness, blurred vision and exhaustion.

For the story, wondering if any of you know of a non profit that raises funds to help people with the costs of organic food when necessary in such a case as mine...where our grocery bill tripled due to my sensitivities. Would like to be able to help others as it has certainly been a struggle for me.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also do i describe this illness caused by MSg sensitivity? Doctor's somly say...if you are allergic to MSg don't eat it! What is a good definition of what MSG does to us and how do I explain simply how many things have glutamate in it? I posted twice because I can not pull up the last post and some of you even responded to that post! Might you post again here as I can not for the life of me pull up the other post sent the same day regarding the same topic...the news paper article! I have to admit that I am afraid the twist of the article may be to bash doctors and I do not want to get the medical community mad at me...and thus, not serve me when i need help. Not sure if I should do the article but I want to help others.....thoughts?
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 7:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I would simply refer to MSG as a toxin.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 10:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cathy218, Perhaps you can ask the interviewing journalist about the theme and tell them about your concern about not wanting to put doctors in a bad light. Perhaps you can request not to have your last name revealed. If their answers are satisfactory, then I'd go ahead and try to present your experiences so as to help others.

Sorry this is a little helter-skelter but I have about 60 pages of notes on the subject and have copied bits and pieces here. Maybe you can take some of these facts and condense them for your own use.

Just like a pharmaceutical drug, free glutamic acid (the toxic element in MSG) can create a diverse spectrum of effects on humans. You can get a list of what it does and how many things have it in them by going to the home page and scrolling down on the left to "What is MSG" and "Hidden names for MSG". MSG can be used (and hidden) in processed food, dietary supplements, cosmetics, personal care products, and drugs. It can be used in waxes applied to fresh fruits and vegetables. It can be used as ingredients in pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, and plant growth enhancers -- remaining in the edible portion of the plant or on the edible portion of the plant when its leaves, fruits, nuts, grains, and other edible parts are brought to market.

For food use it is used as a flavor enhancer. The fact that a food has natural occurring glutamate in it is not dangerous or toxic, it is the processed free-glutamic acid that is. When any ingredient contains 79% processed free glutamic acid (MSG), and the balance is made up of salt, moisture, and up to 1 per cent contaminants, the product must be called "monosodium glutamate" and must be labeled as such. The FDA requires that other MSG-containing ingredients be identified by names other than "monosodium glutamate." Never does the FDA require mention of the fact that an ingredient contains processed free glutamic acid (MSG), so manufacturers can easily hide it in a lesser percentage than 79%.

While the free glutamic acid in MSG is generally produced through bacterial fermentation, the glutamic acid in the other MSG-containing ingredients is made through use of chemicals (hydrolysis or autolysis), enzymes (enzymolysis), fermentation, or a complex cooking process wherein reaction flavors are produced from a combination of specific amino acids, reducing sugars, animal or vegetable fats or oils, and optional ingredients including hydrolyzed vegetable protein.

There are two forms of glutamate. It can be found in the "free" form in plant and animal tissues. It is the free glutamate that plays a role in the palatability and acceptability of foods. Foods that contain high levels of free glutamate, such as cheese and ripe tomatoes, have distinctive and enjoyable flavors.
Glutamate also exists in the "bound" form as a part of protein, along with other amino acids and is commonly found in food. Human breast milk contains ten times as much as cow's milk, and tomato juice contains four times as much as breast milk. Glutamates can be produced by fermentation of starches or sugars, and also by breaking the bonds between amino acids in proteins, leaving free amino acids. This process is done by heat or by enzymes, and is called hydrolyzing because the bonds are broken by adding water.
However, free glutamate, as found in soy sauce or prepared foods, enters the bloodstream much faster than the glutamates bound in proteins, where they are released slowly during digestion. So a person eating MSG throughout the day can raise glutamate blood levels higher with every meal.

- No one knows how little glutamic acid is needed to kill a single brain cell or to trigger an adverse reaction.
- Free glutamic acid is a neurotransmitter. It causes nerves to fire, carrying nerve impulses throughout the nervous system.
- Free glutamic acid is a neurotoxin. Under certain circumstances, free glutamic acid will cause nerves to fire repeatedly, until they die

Free glutamic acid is an excitoxin and neurotoxin, it over stimulates neurons, sometimes until cell death. It also affects your body by being an inflamatory agent and an endocrine disruptor. It hits the hypothalamus region of the brain. It triggers the craving and fat storage centers of the brain...putting many of us on an endless craving for foods. It plays with our insulin, adrenalin, and consequently, our blood sugar levels.

Dr. Blaylock, the neurosurgeon and author says, "that everyone reacts to some degree and over time, consuming so much glutamate causes damage to the very "pumps" in the brain which control the ridding of excess amounts of glutamate to the brain".

One of the worse things is that the elderly and young are especially susceptible to it's effects.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 3:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi cathy218... i am having the same glitch...
try this link & see if you can 'get in the back door'
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - 4:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MUSCLE PAIN, Magnesium and Molybdenum
I have been ill for four years. Symptoms of anaphylaxis, muscle seizing, vertigo on and on started after a horrible flu and antibiotics. MSG elimination helped most symptoms. My muscles continue to seize up in my upper back and neck. Recently my accupuncturist found that I need molybdenum. Thoughts on this? I am unfamiliar. Also what amount of magnesium are you all taking. I am told I do not need I understand most of MSGers take TriSalts with calcium.

Doc says our high sulphur environment in our area can overwhelm the body's molybdenum stores and give heavy sulfite reactions.

I don't eat: citric acid, most non-organic foods veggies, dried fruits, corn, wheat, gluten, milk, dairy of anykind (lactose intollerant), limited sugar and only drink water and organic coffee. The list of what I don't eat is far greater than what I do.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - 7:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cathy - thought I had responded to this, but can't see where. Your symptoms and foods are similar to mine. Have you tried adding Taurine?
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 5:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The human body contains about 0.07 mg of molybdenum per kilogram of weight.[55] It occurs in higher concentrations in the liver and kidneys and in lower concentrations in the vertebrae.[5] Molybdenum is also present within human tooth enamel and may help prevent its decay.[56]

The average daily intake of molybdenum varies between 0.12 and 0.24 mg, but it depends on the molybdenum content of the food.[57] Pork, lamb and beef liver each have approximately 1.5 parts per million of molybdenum. Other significant dietary sources include green beans, eggs, sunflower seeds, wheat flour, lentils, cucumbers and cereal grain.[6] Acute toxicity has not been seen in humans, and the toxicity depends strongly on the chemical state. Studies on rats show a median lethal dose (LD50) as low as 180 mg/kg for some Mo compounds.[58] Although human toxicity data is unavailable, animal studies have shown that chronic ingestion of more than 10 mg/day of molybdenum can cause diarrhea, growth retardation, infertility, low birth weight and gout; it can also affect the lungs, kidneys and liver.[57][59] Sodium tungstate is a competitive inhibitor of molybdenum. Dietary tungsten reduces the concentration of molybdenum in tissues.[5]

Dietary molybdenum deficiency from low soil concentration of molybdenum has been associated with increased rates of esophageal cancer in a geographical band from northern China to Iran.[60][61] Compared to the United States, which has a greater supply of molybdenum in the soil, people living in these areas have about 16 times greater risk for esophageal squamous cell carcinoma.[62]

Molybdenum deficiency has also been reported as a consequence of non-molybdenum supplemented total parenteral nutrition (complete intravenous feeding) for long periods of time. It results in high blood levels of sulfite and urate, in much the same way as molybdenum cofactor deficiency. However, presumably since pure molybdenum deficiency from this mechanism is seen primarily in adults, the neurological consequences have not been as marked as for the congenital cofactor deficiency.

[edit] Related diseasesA congenital molybdenum cofactor deficiency disease, seen in infants, results in interference with the ability of the body to use molybdenum in enzymes. It causes high levels of sulphite and urate, and neurological damage.[63][64] The cause is the inability of the body to synthesize molybdenum cofactor, a heterocyclic molecule which binds molybdenum at the active site in all known human enzymes which use molybdenum.

[edit] Copper-molybdenum antagonismHigh levels of molybdenum can interfere with the body's uptake of copper, producing copper deficiency. Molybdenum prevents plasma proteins from binding to copper, and it also increases the amount of copper that is excreted in urine. Ruminants that consume high amounts of molybdenum develop symptoms including diarrhea, stunted growth, anemia and achromotrichia (loss of hair pigment). These symptoms can be alleviated by the administration of more copper into the system, both in dietary form and by injection.[65] The condition, as an effective copper deficiency, can be aggravated by excess sulfur.[5][66]

Copper reduction or deficiency can also be deliberately induced for therapeutic purposes by the compound ammonium tetrathiomolybdate, in which the bright red anion tetrathiomolybdate is the copper-chelating agent. Tetrathiomolybdate was first used therapeutically in the treatment of copper toxicosis in animals. It was then introduced as a treatment in Wilson's disease, a hereditary copper metabolism disorder in humans; it acts both by competing with copper absorption in the bowel and by increasing excretion. It has also been found to have an inhibitory effect on angiogenesis, potentially via the inhibition of copper ion dependent membrane translocation process invovling a non-classical secretion pathway.[67] This makes it an interesting investigatory treatment for cancer, age-related macular degeneration, and other diseases featuring excessive blood vessel deposition.[68][69]

[edit] PrecautionsMolybdenum dusts and fumes, which can be generated by mining or metalworking, can be toxic, especially if ingested (including dust trapped in the sinuses and later swallowed).[58] Low levels of prolonged exposure can cause irritation to the eyes and skin. Direct inhalation or ingestion of molybdenum and its oxides should be avoided.[70][71] OSHA regulations specify the maximum permissible molybdenum exposure in an 8-hour day as 5 mg/m3. Chronic exposure to 60 to 600 mg/m3 can cause symptoms including fatigue, headaches and joint pains.[72]
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 1:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cathy 218, I react with terrible seizing up in my back when I eat foods containing sulfites...and sometime it effects my neck. I suffer terrible belching if the amount is significant. In fact, I don't feel too good right now. For the last two days, I've been using a lot of Trader Joe's Chipotle salsa on my food. I've done okay with it in the past, but with sulfites, if they are present in this product, it's the amount they add, plus the amount I have eaten. Perhaps they have just begun to add sulfites. I just listed all the suspicious items causing this discomfort and will do the elimination diet again...what fun! ):.I will start a regimen of taurine and look into molybdenum...wondering if supplements might help. I am also suspicious of new preservatives being added to our foods, such a the increased use of pyro phosphates, and one new one being used in Hershey's chocolate's a group of letters, but can't recall...have heard it's dangerous. Again, I need to be reminded that whole foods, not processed ones are the best way to go!
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 7:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, Deb A., since 2006 they've been using polyglycerol polyricinoleate (PGPR) to replace the more expensive cocoa butter in low quality chocolate bars such as Hershey's, Nestle's and Mars:

"When the cocoa butter is replaced by PGPR, you also lose the antioxidants from the cocoa butter that help prevent cholesterol buildup in the arteries."
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 7:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A, Is there a trader Joes in Tri Cities???
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:56 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trader Joe's location finder:
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not yet. Spokane has a new one, 2 hours away, but we should be getting one here some day, too, I heard.
Thanks Roy! That's very helpful information. Boy, what the food industry is doing to kill us off!
Roy Piwovar
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 10:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cocoa butter is often removed in the manufacturing process of chocolate, replaced with PGPR, and sold to the cosmetics industry because "there is money to be made in redirecting part of their foodstuffs to rub on consumers' skins at a much higher price than that of chocolate."
Posted From:
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - 2:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It took me years to pinpoint that my problem was msg. My reaction is a headache that leads to vomiting that won't stop in less than 2 days or an expensive emergency room visit. So far nothing I've tried will stop the vomiting until the msg is out of my system(that's my guess) Can anyone share if this is their reaction how they have managed to stop it. Also, I avoid msg like the plaque, if I do ingest some it usually gives me a headache. Cannot seem to identify what it is that sends it to the next level of migraine and hurling. Has anyone else answered this question for themself?
Deb A.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 9:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous, the severity of a reaction often depends on several things...amount of MSG or free glutamate ingested, age, form of food it is in (soup will be able to enter the bloodstream more quickly, as one example), weight, activity of person, and general health. Some of us have blood brain barriers that are more permeable than others...whether through damage due to years of glutamate, or due to genetics, which also play a role in a person's degree of sensitivity. From your fast and violent reaction of vomiting, you must be very sensitive to glutamate. The real trick to identifying any hidden free glutamate (the harmful component of MSG that can be part of several food additives, is knowing and arming yourself with these words and other information, and reading food labels religiously. Also, you will need to avoid restaurants and fast food and processed foods until you know what is safe. There is a list of additives on our site at a very helpful book....which could make your life a lot easier. Yes, vomiting and headaches are very common reactions to glutamate toxicity. Please be very careful about what you eat...there is a test diet at the site which is helpful, too.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 6:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with Deb - and based on my experience, the amount of glutamate I ingest determined the severity of my reaction. Unfortunately, even small amounts at intervals will get me to the migraine stage (and if I can't stop it quickly enough, ie. it starts during my sleep) then I end up throwing up too. A clean diet and the addition of taurine has gotten me out of the migraine cycle. So avoiding even small amounts may break the cycle fo you as well. Hint that I have gotten some is muscle aches that begin (oddly) in my left arm, then spread to sholder and neck. If I feel that, I immediately take ibuprofen which can stop my reaction cold if I didn't get a large amount. Even then, I may experience muscle twitching days later, lasting for days - in which case I temporarily up my intake of taurine, as it seems to calm the muscles. If I consistently avoid FGA and keep my taurine levels up, along with a careful diet, I am symptom free. My sleep and energy levels are great when I do it right. Do the test diet, avoid FGA and evaluate which supplements help you feel your best. Best wishes on getting to symptom free, it may take time to get it right - I know it took me almost 2yrs to get it down.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 4:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I get the same muscle pains Evelyn. Always starting in my arm before culminating in a very sore neck and shoulders.

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