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Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Share Your Symptoms « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
My childEvelyn H.36 9-21-01  10:01 am
Problems with MSG & AspartameLL15 9-08-01  12:15 pm
Yogurtmelissa7-10-01  12:36 pm
Is this an msg reaction?LL85 10-08-01  10:24 am
What about an overdoseDeb A.15 7-19-01  1:12 pm
ReactionCarole30 6-24-01  8:10 am
Bladder Inflammationclarissa16 7-31-01  1:52 pm
FDA ReportingDeb A.6-18-01  8:16 pm
What can I eat to get started? I need some relief now?Carole13 8-16-01  11:46 am
Introductionshirley13 8-20-01  12:23 pm
Tomatoesshirley8-19-01  6:45 pm
Numbnessshirley8-21-01  5:53 pm
Allergy attackshirley8-26-01  9:54 am
Lights, numbness, tunnel vision, migrane.... whoopee.Tom Fernstrom9-09-01  6:59 am
Mayonaiseshirley9-14-01  4:41 am
BagelsEvelyn H.9-21-01  10:03 am
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
Vicki K.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 6:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We'll my symptoms include rapid heart beat, extreme itching all over, sometimes hives, flushing of the face. Complete swelling of the eyes, face and throat, wheezing from the throat. Severe stomache and abdominal cramps followed by diahrrea, severe headache. For days afterwards, I have very sore arms and legs, almost feels like it would bruise with the touch of a finger. Achy feeling all over, like the flu, can't hardly move my arms and legs. Leaves me very irritable and touchy, doesn't take much for me to blow my top.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 11:02 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used to get very high blood pressure readings within an hour, I would feel lousy for at least four days with the blood pressure coming down gradually. My face would drain of color, I would get dark circles under my eyes, I could not sleep, and my heart would pound so hard I could actually hear it in my ears. I would see bright flashing light in my left eye, and get a very bad headache. Sometimes I would vomit within an hour. I was extremely anxious and would be very irritable as well. I was always tired. Exhausted is a better word. It wore me out.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 11:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vicki, I suffer the EXACT symptoms as you and also get the high blood pressure readings that Carol describes. You are not alone in your suffering.
Many of us here know exactly how you feel and we support you.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 12:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

vicki i get all of the symtoms you get and one more thing i have found out about my reaction is were ever i sweat i itch and it get wrose everytime i scratch its so terrible and it take my face at least 2 days to come down oh i hate it thanks for sharing that with us
Deb A
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 1:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This may sound indelicate, but I have had many people shyly report to me that they have experienced severe pain in the anal area...also more severe PMS, and bleeding, and cramps and prostate problems they attribute to MSG. I think people should be aware of these not- too-often mentioned symptoms.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 6:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Help! I have posted this in the past on the old NoMSG site, but it happened again today. When I drink milk or consume dairy products where the cows have been fed grains augmented with the bovine recumbent growth hormone rBST, I get the most terrible reaction.
I get horrible chills and cannot get warm even under layers of blankets. Next I curl up into a fetal position and literally go to sleep (pass out?) for 2-3 hours. When I awaken it is like I have been run over by a truck for the rest of the day.
I buy only the Trader Joe's brand of whole milk and have no such problems. But today I ate a cup of Trader Joe's whole milk yogurt which claims to be rBST free. But obviously it was not because within 15 minutes of eating it, I was freezing to death and the sleeping followed.
I should comment that this reaction is totally different from my MSG reactions which are more typically skin rashes, blisters and swelling, headaches, diarrhea and muscle aches.
Does anyone have any idea what is happening to me? Has anyone ever experienced anything like this from milk or dairy products? It's not a milk allergy because normal rBST free milk gives me no problem.
Sometimes I really question what our government is allowing to happen to its citizens. We must find a way to stop the legal poisoning of our food supply!
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 6:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On Page 1 of the business section of yesterday's New York Times (11/8/00), there is an article about the larger food companies buying out the smaller ones to get into the "natural business" --- with profits, of course, being the prime mission.

We better watch for changes in products that we presently find reliable (e.g., Muir Glen, Amy's).
Vicki K.
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 6:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,
In response to your above comment, I have experienced all those symptoms, the anal pain, when I was battling the removal of msg in my diet was terrible. And before I found this web site I literally thought I was going thru premenopause, night sweats, the whole bit, I'm only 34. I still have the severe cramps during PMS but no longer the anal pain. Thanks for being indelicate, I thought I was alone on that one. Also note, I had severe back aches through out the month.
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 9:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So sorry you got "poisoned' again! Gerry, was the yogurt flavored? Many of the flavorings, including the fruits, contain both sulfites (don't get lulled into believing that all so-called organic products are totally free of additives, though they try to be sure their sources comply to all the regulations) and flavor enhancers (some could be considered natural and "organic" flavor enhancers are being developed all the time from "natural" products), and may not even be labeled. Was there any carrageenan or gums in the product or dry milk? Organic dry milk can be added, and not labeled that way, because it's still considered "milk". But it is also true that we hear from other individuals who are reporting that the bovine growth hormone is causing reactions and many serious consequences for young people who are maturing too quickly. Farmers are reporting that their cows are developing tumors in their udders at a growing rate. Many don't like to use the hormone, but feel they can't compete with farmers who do. It all comes down to profits, doesn't it? What a shame for our country. I use organic whole milk, even the ultrapasteurized (Organic Valley and Horizon) and do okay...but I don't use much. Have you tried Rice Dream plain rice milk?...not great for drinking, but it's good in hot cocoa, sauces, and other such things. I will cream it a bit with a touch of milk sometimes for flavor.
Vicki, I'm so glad I mentioned the anal pain....helps people know that they aren't going crazy!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 11:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the commiserating, Deb. No, I only use plain yogurt as I know all the problems with flavorings. I guess that I am now forced to the Rice Dream.....hope it doesn't make me dream too much. You know, I really hate being subjected to all these chemicals.
As an interesting aside, for 2 years I have been dealing with my 12 yr old cat and her mysterious irritable bowel syndrome. My vet put her on a low dose of prednisone but I had to keep increasing it as she got worse. Well about 6 weeks ago, I decided to change her diet (Fancy Feast) whether she liked it or not. Fancy Feast has oodles of additives, including those that I'm sensitive to.
The result: She is now off all predisone and on a diet of Nature's Recipe Rabbit for cats. She no longer exhibits irritable bowel syndrome symptoms. At the vet today for her annual appointment, he was astonished. She had not lost any weight, her gums were normal for the first time in years. I tried to convince him that it was msg compounds in the Fancy Feast, but he really didn't accept that. I was truly surprised at his reaction as he has seen me with a full blown msg reaction and couldn't believe his eyes at how bad my reactions are. (No I didn't go to him for my problems, just taking a sick pet to him and he observed my problem.)
I have since also put my dog on a diet of Natures' Recipe Rabbit and she too is symptom free, where she would regularly have bouts of upset stomach and diarrhea.
The conclusion for me is that our pets are suffering chemical poisoning just like us.
My vet actually defended the chemical additives because wihtout them foods would have NO SHELF LIFE! Now where have we heard that before.
Thanks for the Rice Dream suggestion, I appreciate it.
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 5:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry Bush....
I use California Natural Adult Lamb/Rice dog food and my buddies (canines) are doing real good now. I have one with neurological problems and one who developed skin problems.
I researched many dog foods and most of them have
excitotoxins in them. I think that is why so many of our beloved pets are having neurological, allergy and intestinal problems. I also found out that the dog food companies are using grains that are Genitically Modified. Corn especially. That means there is an added protein that causes allergies. The dog food company that I contacted
owned up to it and I was grateful for their honesty. I care and love my pets very much and do the very best that I know to do. Perhaps others who read this post will make the MSG connection for their pets also.
Deb S
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 9:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I too suffered with the anal pain, it would usually start in the morning after a movement and then persist throughout the day (and there was this odor). I thought it might be hemorrhoids, but it was there only occasionally. I haven't had that symptom since I learned about MSG and aspartame. My periods were getting longer and heavier with spotting in between. I also had uterine fibroids (benign tumors of the uterus composed of muscle-like tissue) that had been growing for several years, with surgery to remove them being discussed. Between the time I eliminated aspartame and began to eliminate MSG and my annual exam 9 months later, my periods had returned to normal (even light) and the fibroids had shrunk to where they were undetectable by manual exam. I also used to get night sweats, and sometimes when I would retire for the night I would notice my pulse was racing for no reason. Another fun symptom was horrible bowel cramping (precursor to diarrhea) with such intense pain it would sometimes cause unconsciousness. I would come-to leaning over against the wall in the bathroom or restroom stall.
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 4:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Gerry:

I have the same effect when I eat a pack of Oreo's or ChipsAhoy and a glass of milk. I noticed that the chills are a drop on blood pressure, also that is why you get so sleepy. Before getting Deb's book and coming to this site, this is what I use when I couldn't sleep because of MSG symptoms :)
Until I got my heart racing in the middle of the night for no reason, so I stopped eating the cookies and drinking milk. :)
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 8:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Frank, Thanks so much for your comments. I am sure it is the milk, although I don't eat oreos. But for me, its milk and milk products where the cows have been fed with the rBST growth hormone. I am absolutely certain of this connection.
Hey Carol, what do you think about Frank's comments re blood pressure drop. If he's right this is very scary. Why does this happen?
Again, thanks Frank, at least now I know that I am not the only one with these weird symptoms.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 8:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

M-Y, Thanks for the info on the special dog food, California Natural. Can you tell me where you buy it. I live in AZ and we have both Petco and Petsmart, but I don't recall seeing it there.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 11:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, Oreos do contain some sources of free glutamate, and so does milk. I miss the Oreos, but enjoy my own brownies when I crave them.
We get reports of both an unusual rise in blood pressure and a drop due to MSG...both dangerous.

Deb brought back some very unpleasant memories of the excruciating stomach cramps and pain. Unfortunately, I hadn't made the MSG connection yet when I had a hysterectomy for the exact same reasons you were heading for surgery. It angers me that I had to be put on hormones that made me react for years. Look at all the money being made by doctors and drug companies because of our suffering due to excitotoxins.
But I actually appreciate being reminded of my own years of struggle and me the impetus to keep trying to warn others. All of you here are actually helping to do this. A HUGE thank you!
Carol H
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 3:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I've been thinking about the blood pressure rise or drop. Thanks to Ben's question about GABA, I think I can explain this big difference. It may be how we process MSG. Those of us who get extrememly anxious, and uptight, and feel pain are probably not very very good at processing MSG and turning it into GABA. So, MSG is acting as an upper, a calcium channel opener and increasing blood pressure. Now consider what happens if MSG is converted too quickly to GABA. GABA receptors are the same ones that are targeted by depressants like valium. That may explain a blood pressure drop, sleepiness, and an out-of-it feeling, a shutting down. Either way, its not good because too much GABA spurs the body to make growth hormones. I don't know about you, but I don't need my pituitary tumor to get any bigger, and specialists are at this moment stymied by why 25% of the adult population in the US gets pituitary tumors that don't show a genetic cause. What if some of us suffer from too much MSG because we can't convert it, and the rest, who can convert it quickly to GABA suffer from too much GABA?
Carol H
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 3:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Here's another reason for concern. And also why I really take all your reactions seriously. GABA is chemically related to GHB, which has been used by some unscrupulous people as the "date rape drug". They use it to knock out victims so they can take advantage of them. I saw a show about GHB on Oprah the other day that broke my heart. GHB is now illegal, I believe, in the US. Too bad they allow food manufacturers to spike our food with the metabolic precursor to a compound with similar effects. It is not your imagination, I believe you ARE being drugged by MSG.
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 4:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry Bush,
You have to search for California Natural. You can find it on the web but you can also look at Garden and Feed Centers and Health food Stores.
I first got it at a Garden/feed Center and I traveled (round trip) 84 miles. Now I found it at
a local Health food store by a place I found on the web to locate a store near my home. If I find it again I'll give you the site.
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 4:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry Bush,
I found the site for California Natural.
Hope it works for you.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 6:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks M-Y, I visited the site and there are 2 stores carrying the goods near me. I will go tomorrow. Both myself and my little Schatzi appreciate your help!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 7:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, Thanks so much for your input. I am really intrigued by what Deb A. had to say also. That there is glutamate in milk. Could it be that I am now so sensitive to MSG that I can't even eat a cup of plain organic whole milk yogurt? Since I realized that milk was "knocking me out", I had almost stopped consuming milk. The only yogurt that I was eating prior to this last episode with the Trader Joe's brand was a goats milk yogurt that didn't seem to bother me at all.
The thought that it might be the glutamate in milk is plausible though, as I also have those nasty MSG rashes on my hands, and I didn't eat anything with MSG in it.
As an aside, I will tell you why I was eating the yogurt in the first place. The night before while eating a salmon steak, a bone shard lodged in my throat and I was rushed to the ER, where they removed it. To get down my throat, they first sprayed my mouth and throat with a local anesthetic. The doc told me only liquids for 24 hours, so I made a yogurt shake. You don't suppose that anesthetic could have contributed to my reaction or was it more likely the glutamate in the yogurt. I DON'T want to go through it again and will avoid milk at all costs if you believe it to be the cause. I really do believe my reaction is connected to something in the milk. It is really scary to think that milk can send my blood pressure dropping like a rock so that I pass out for hours (in the morning just after awakening).
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 7:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol here is a little more comment on the GABA issue. Since I was in the hospital just the evening before my yogurt episode, could it be that my body over reacted to the MSG in the yogurt because I was so stressed the night before in the really wasn't fun. As you describe it I was anxious, uptight and scared with the stupid fishbone shard wedged in my throat. And you can imagine that it wasn't too pleasant having it removed either. So as I understand you, I wasn't very good at processing the MSG in the yogurt, and it went quickly into GABA causing my bizarre symptoms. If this is true, we could make a movie on the depth of the dangers of MSG by just scaring me and then giving me a glass of milk. Wouldn't that wake some people up to our cause? But of course I'd be chilly and sleeping! You and Deb A. would have to do the talking! And get those blankets ready as I need piles of them.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2000 - 11:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry, you might want to check out the ingredients in the oral anesthetic. I know that enteral feedings, and many anesthetics contain glucose, and dextrose, and glutamic acid as a result. Kaye at 1 800 Beat MSG has the name of a major producer for such medical drugs. I found it interesting that you didn't react to goat's milk yogurt..could you be sensitive to just cow's milk? Just thinking outloud and not thinking too clearly...time to turn in. Also remember that the proteins in milk are broken down by the added bacteria culture in yogurt and that means breaking down some natural bound and safer glutamate into free glutamate. Most MSG today is produced by a fermenting corn with a certain type of bacteria.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 7:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been thinking about why those of us who are super sensitive to MSG can consume a "safe" product one time with no reaction and the next time have a reaction. It seems like the normal thought process expressed here is that the product has been changed in some fashion or prepared differently or one's new reactions are due to increased sensitivity. What if it had to do with some other factor such as having consumed something with the product at the time it was "safe" that prevented a reaction and then not having that preventative edge later?

As I have mentioned before, I have been taking 200mg of CoQ10 daily for about 5 months now and have had virtually no MSG reactions. I am also taking the Magnesium, Taurine and Vitamin B6 supplements daily, but previous to adding the CoQ10, I would continue to have reactions to slip-ups.

This is one reason I have been hesitant to post "safe" food products or restaurants. They may only be safer for me now because of these supplements. I would much prefer to not have the added expense and inconvenience of supplementing these ingredients to negate the effects of MSG assault from the food industry. But since I fear the reactions were damaging my heart, I am willing to take these added precautions as well as sustaining my abstinence of MSG & Aspartame.
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 12:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A and Carol H - The MSG-GABA-growth hormone theory could explain the abnormal growth of fibrous muscle tissue that is fibroids. They "think" that estrogen causes them to grow, but I wonder if there is an interplay of estrogen/glutamate/GABA at work. I note a connection with estrogen in that for many years I had 2-3 day migraines only during the time in my cycle that estrogen was at the lowest levels, particularly when I was taking oral contraceptives (it was during the week off). After further chemical injury through pesticide exposure, the migraines began appearing at other times as well. I wonder if estrogen somehow helps convert glutamate to GABA? And when the estrogen drops off, excess glutamate builds up causing reaction symptoms.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 7:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A., I will check the anesthetic out with my local pharmacist. Fortunately the ER doc gave me a prescription of the same stuff and directed me to gargle with it for 5 days. I never got it filled because I am SO AFRAID of all medicines. Thanks for everyone's help with this problem of mine.
I am very afraid of this happening again.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2000 - 10:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb S,

I'll have to look into that some more, but we do know that MSG affects women around the time menstruation. I used to get a killer migraine a few days before. What we do know is that hypoglycemia is a factor in PMS. It is what may make us irritable and more hungry right before a period. This hypoglycemia would also cause a leaky bloodbrain barrier to MSG possibly making us more sensitive to excitoxins during this time. When I was the most sensitive to MSG was when I had a dermoid ovarian cyst the size of a softball. My hormones were so out of whack. The headaches I got then were even more excruciating than the ones caused by my pituitary tumor. My extreme sensitivity to MSG lessened dramatically when that ovarian cyst was removed.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 8:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll quote from my book with the information I gained from Dr. Carol Foster, a neurologist: "Seratonin is the brain's "feel good juice". It helps us feel joy and peace. It also helps conteol blood insulin and glucose levels. It calms us after an adrenalin rush. It modulates the functions of the brain. She said that we are wasting this good natural drug when it is constantly combating the toxic effects of MSG. It is a neurotransmitter or brain chemical produced in the pineal gland and found in the area of the brain that controls many of our body's functions (the hypothalamus). The hypothalamus is the body's "stay alive software". It controls vital signs, hormones, blood sugar level, pain control,emotions, and sleep. To show us how important an influence this part of the brain has on our bodies, she told us that in women, for three days eash month, it basically turns off the ovary's hormones and cuts back on serotonin, which can cause PMS headaches and the blue feelings. MSG ingestion forces us to release more adrenalin which in turn makes us use up our serotonin. Our reserves get lower and lower (and we feel lousy). Low serotonin is linked to low immunity. On days when your serotonin levels are high, you may notice fewer headaches even if you have (ingested) MSG."
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 8:12 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Serotonin may play a part in the process as well, but I'm not sure how. A friend who started taking estrogen replacement remarked that the reason she felt so crummy ("blue," fatigued) before she started on the estrogen was because it affects serotonin levels. She was back to her old positive, energetic self after about a week on the estrogen. Could low estrogen and/or serotonin cause a leaky blood brain barrier?
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 2:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had very normal estrogen levels the twenty years prior to making the MSG connection. It was only when I eliminated MSG that the headaches disappeared. Estrogen is a very powerful hormone and lack of it can cause "temporary" symptoms of blue moods, lack of energy, hot flashes. Some scientists tell us it can even lead to osteoporosis, and heart disease in some individuals. But many people at menapause choose not to take HRT because it can also increase the chances of acquiring breast cancer. For this reason some of my frieds have decided to tough it
out(mood swings, hot flashes and fatigue) the months or year or more it may take for the body to adjust to their lower levels of estrogen. The body does contine to manufacture some estrogen in some of the fattier areas of our bodies as we age. Carol, I'm not clear on any estrogen/seratonin connection other than what I posted earlier. Any ideas?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2000 - 2:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Per this link, estrogen supplementation may protect against Alzheimer's. This makes me suspect that estrogen might also protect against glutamate damage.
Vicki K.
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 6:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H.
You comment above about msg affecting people during menstruation. When I first started having reactions 10 yrs. ago, that is when I would have the reactions during menstruation. I even told my doctor that I felt it was related to the reactions, of course he dismissed it and probably thought I was crazy. But, for many years, the only time I had a reaction was when I was menustrating. Just thought you might find the info useful.
mona soliman
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 1:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am so thankful that I found your website and your story. I
>am not going crazy after all and I don't need the Prozac one doctor
>recommended because after a battery of tests nothing was found. I think I
>have experienced EVERY one of the symptoms you listed and my friends said
>my body was just changing as I am getting older. I am 31 years old and I am a
>chiropractor and have been very health conscious and health oriented.
>Well, in the last two years I drastically changed my diet to include
>protein shakes (whey and soy), vitamins and supplements (probably in toxic
>amounts based on how I felt) since I was exercising more and didn't think I
>was getting enough protein. I also have been very conscious about having a
>low fat and no fat diet that I thought I was doing good. ure my body fat
>percentage is only 15%, BUT little did I know I was slowly poisoning my
>body with this stuff that I thought were supposed to be GOOD for you. I
>went on a fast four months ago and couldn't believe how wonderful I felt.
>I would have done it forever if I could survive on liquid alone (lemonade
>made with maple syrup). As soon as I resumed eating especially my
>boyfriends wonderful chocolate chocolate cake (from a mix and cocoa powder)
>and various cooked meals with milk I resumed feeling ill. >I have also noticed that it has affected my menstral cycle and hormones and
>if you have any information about that I would appreciate it. You may also
>want to add that to your list.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 7:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mona, you might want to go to "last week" under the discussion heading and go down to the "share your symptoms" topic and read from about 11/11 to 11/13. There are some good discussions about MSG effecting the menstrual cycle and hormones, which it definitely does. MSG effects the hypothalamus region of the brain which controls our reproductive system and all the glands and hormones of the endocrine system.

Thanks you so much for sharing your story. Think of all the people who are devouring gallons of those soy protein drinks, and tons of other supplements. And we are hearing from body builders and professioal trainers who are suddenly very sick. Fortunately they have made the MSG connection,too. So glad you found us!
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 2:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I asked at my healthfood store if they could get
Beyond-A Century supplements. I told them that I wanted a powdered CoQ 10 and they told me if I do
take a Powdered COQ 10 it will be necessary to take an essential fatty acid with it so that it will be absorbed. They said that is why a lot of the companies make it in a gel-cap so that the oil will be there for absorption. Is any one aware of this? Interesting....
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 4:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This ad for CoQ10 also says that some fat is needed for absorption purposes.
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 5:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Tom Fernstrom:

For the Taurine and Vitamin B6, how many milligrams of each do you take daily?

And what brand of Taurine do you use?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 5:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Here are the medicines I am taking:

NAME Pill Size Dosage Frequency

Lanoxin 0.25MG 1 Daily

Coumadin 5MG 1 Daily

Vasotec 5MG 1 Morn/Eve

Here are the supplements I am taking:

NAME Pill Size Dosage Frequency

Taurine 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 750mg per 1/4 tsp.

Orotate 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 73mg per 1/4 tsp.

Vitamin B-6 25 mg 1 Daily
Mason Vitamins, INC., Miami, Fla
1,250% of the RDA
It says it is free of Sodium, Wheat, Corn, Yeast, Soy, Gluten, Egg, Fragrance, Artificial Colors or Flavors and Preservatives.
Other ingredients: Croscarmellose Sodium, Lactose, Magnesium Stearate and Microcrystalline Cellulose.

Geritol Tablet 1 Daily

CoQ10 50mg gelcap 4 Daily
"Member's Mark" Brand from Sam's Club 120 softgels for about $18.00
Deb and Mike Anglesey
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 11:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I want to let those visiting here know that we or our site cannot recommend any supplements or brand names or make any claims concerning their safety. The products posted here may not bother some individuals, but can cause real suffering or even a trip to the hospital for others, depending on varying degrees of sensitivity to excitotoxins. I for one appreciate it when such products are discussed and shared as Tom has done, but rememeber they are only suggestions and they may help or harm.
I strongly suggest that if you decide to try such products that you try only one at a time and for a few weeks. It can take that long to detect a culmulative effect from the minute to moderate amounts of glutamic acid that may be present.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2000 - 2:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb & Mike,

I whole heartedly agree with your disclaimer stated above and I have not taken the advice of supplementation given here or on the NOMSG site without consulting my doctor first.

But we all know that some doctors would not agree to the need for many if any of these supplements anyway. Abstenance is about the only legal recommendation that can be made on this site. Regretfully with the bombardment of our systems by these poisons in ever increasingly devious ways, we will eventually be at a loss for even abstinence.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 7:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, I recently talked with Jack Samuels, and he also says that we would be surprised at the amount of food additives and MSG that are being added to foods in ever increasing amounts, and that it will be more and more difficult to find items that are safe. Who knows what new sprays will be used on fruits and vegetables. Perhaps it will force the hand of the FDA when so many people become ill. Hopefully, the public will finally demand to know what is going on. Sad but possible.
Do you take any of the supplements in gelcaps? Many people inform me that they react to the gelatin. What form is the B6 in?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 3:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

B6 and other B vitamins, and vitamin C, are normally in formed tablets.

Gelcaps are for vitamins A, D, Beta Carotene, and E, to use fat for absorption.

Some brands use clear or translucent brown bottles so you can see for yourself.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 6:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

Roy is correct. The Vitamin B6 I take is in tablet form. The only gel cap supplement is the CoQ10 I take which uses the fat in the gel cap for better absorption. But I think the cellular benefit of the energy provided by the CoQ10 outways any small amount of glutamate included.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 9:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, did you feel a significent difference after using the CoQ10? I'm interested to know how you responded to the various supplements as you tried them. I guess I'm assuming that you tried them one at a time. Thanks for sharing what you have learned. And thank you also, Roy.
It's so wonderful to be able to keep learning new things regarding this health issue!
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 2:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

I started out trying the Taurine on Carol's recommendation. That seemed to help a bit when taken after mistaken ingestion of MSG, but only lessened the affects minimally. The magnesium supplement was added because suggestions to do so were being touted on both the A-Fib sites and the NOMSG site. When I got the Magnesium, the suggestion was to take daily doses of it to build the blood serum level back up, so I decided to see if daily doses of both Taurine & Magnesium would be helpful. It was because I was feeling better, but I would still have "episodes" related to small amounts of ingested glutamate. You have to realize that these particular supplements were having their beneficial affect by helping to eliminate the free radicals in the cells created by the glutamate invasion.

It wasn't until I added the gel cap version of CoQ10 to the supplement mix that I found I could start tolerating the foodstuffs that listed "Natural Flavors". I still try to avoid these, but it seems I have some protection being provided by this supplement. It makes sense because it is supposed to be supplying energy to the cells to help rid the glutamate onslaught before you get to the free radical stage of cell damage.
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 8:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I notice that my hands shake after I eat MSG. Also, I get very blurry vision. I was especially bad during the holidays, and that's when I realized it was MSG doing this to me. Does anyone else get any of these symptoms?
Carol H
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 3:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MSG interferes with the body's ability to handle the amino acid cysteine, which the body uses to make taurine, the amino acid that balances glutamate. Taurine is a calcium channel blocker, so it quiets down firing nerve cells as well as regulating heartbeat. Taurine is also very important for vision. My theory is that MSG, by interfering with the body's production of taurine, causes not only "wired" nerves, but rapid heartbeat, and also vision problems. Cats, as well as human infants, must eat taurine in order to have proper growth and development of the eyes. Also, blood pressure problems manifest themselves in the eyes.
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 3:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,
I believe from previous posts your past employment may have been in the food industry. Could I pose a question to you and any one else out there with similar backgrounds?
One questions has been puzzling me:
The food chemists go to great lengths to make up these chemicals/additives. Some how could there not be a chemical made that would neutralize MSG? Similar to how baking soda neutralizes battery acid? I know the answer is probably not as easy as the question sounds but I can't help but think there must be some one out there with the smarts to make something like this.
Deb S
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 7:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not a food chemist, but I believe the answer lies not in what food chemists are working on, but in what medical researchers and drug development researchers have already developed and continue to work on: namely, glutamate blockers.

It is undisputed that excess glutamate in the brain causes neuron cell death and brain damage. (The dispute is over whether dietary glutamate crosses the "blood brain barrier" and gets into the brain.) One use for glutamate blockers is to limit the damage that typically occurs after a stroke which is caused by endogenous brain glutamate when there is insufficient energy to protect against it.

Glutamate is the most abundant neurotransmitter and we need it to live and function. They have developed various glutamate blocking drugs for various purposes, which have varying degrees of effectiveness. I haven't seen (yet) where anyone has suggested taking glutamate blockers to counteract the unpleasant effects of excess dietary glutamate. The possible side effects (mainly neurological, up to and including death) of blocking glutamate too effectively are just too much of a risk to take in order to alleviate MSG reaction symptoms.

But what about the relatively few people whose reactions are truly life-threatening? Has anyone proposed, or even tried, treating them with glutamate blocking drugs? But wait--that would first require the acknowledgment that excess glutamate really is the culprit, wouldn't it?
Deb S
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 8:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some search results for glutamate blocker:
"Although ketamine reduces a number of types of experimental and clinical pain in humans, the drug also causes severe cognitive and affective side effects, making it unattractive for chronic treatment."

As a treatment for glaucoma:

From Dr. Blaylock:

Parkinson's drug protects against glutamate:

I could keep going but that's enough for starters...
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 8:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb S,
Yes, you make a fine point in the first response. They would have to admit it is a culprit.
Thank you for the web-sites. Some heavy reading but, it answers my question.
Would be great if they could find an answer in the future. Thanks.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 12:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Check this out! My daughter called excitedly this morning to read to me from the Jan. 8th, "First", magazine for women. Knew you'd get a kick out of it. On the back page they wrote up the predictions for 2001, and there's a horoscope, too. Anyway, under health trends, it predicts:
"A scandal will force the FDA to re-evaluate a famous food additive. This will lead to a lot more reading of the small print on packaging."
In Women's World magazine, Jan 9th issue, there is an article about a woman's nightmare from migraine headaches, and in it, MSG is the second culprit listed. The word is spreading, people. Be assured that with these recent publications, you will see a stepped up effort by the industry to publish pro MSG information anywhere they can pay for it. They ALWAYS work that way.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 1:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tremors of the hands are a growing condition in this country, even among young adults. I have no doubt that food additives are the cause, especially neurotoxins. My daughter's father-in-law is a well known western artist. His wildlife paintings have incredible detail, but in recent years he has been developing a tremor in his painting hand. Now a few of his children are exhibiting the same shaking. My daughter has tried to warn the parents, but they can't or won't buy into the fact that the food they eat is doing this. They blame it on genetics, but they travel all the time to art shows, and rely heavily on fast or restaurant foods. My daughter told us that their oldest daughter suffers with skin rashes, stomach disorders, and a host of MSG related symptoms. They all drink diet pop, too. It's so frustrating and this gifted artist talks about how hard it is getting to paint now and may be forced to stop some day. What a waste.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 4:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I'm sorry, I posted a response to your post, and I just noticed it did not take. I basically agree with Deb S. There are glutamate blockers out there. Unfortunately, the loophole that these food companies escape through every time is the timeworn excuse they recite like a mantra that dietary MSG does not cross the blood brain barrier. If we attack this centrally held tenet of the food industry, we may be able to weaken their already weak argument. The hypothalamus is extremely vulnerable to MSG, but if we assume for one moment that dietary MSG doesn't enter the brain, it can still affect the pancreas by causing it to secrete more insulin. The resulting blood sugar drop, would leave the brain with an energy deficit and unable to fend off damage from the brain's own glutamate already present. If we still assume dietary MSG doesn't cross that barrier, taurine, which the body uses all over but which is made in the liver, would suffer from the fact that glutamate interferes with the body's ability to handle cysteine, which the body uses to make taurine. Taurine is not only the body's yin to glutamate's yang, it also is a water soluble anti-oxidant. What if we allow them for one minute the folly they believe that MSG does not cross the blood brain barrier. (I believe it does cross, especially after MSG affects the pancreas and creates its own "key" by lowering the brain's defenses) Maybe we can show that MSG affects other areas of the body. What if, for instance, MSG plays a role in pancreatic cancer, by stimulating the pancreas at the same time it depletes the body's supply of taurine which provides an anti-oxidant protective effect? Maybe we can spare our childrens brain cells from further MSG damage, by linking MSG rightfully to damage it does in other parts of the body.
Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 7:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for your post Carol. You and everyone else who helps out are great. You make some very good points on it affecting other parts of the body. I sometimes wonder if my kids will have the same problem when they get older as I do with MSG. They are fine now as I was in my younger years. Being in their teens it's another world to them.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 9:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, glutamate receptors have been discovered in the lungs and breast( and pancreas, if I'm not mistaken). They must be found in other organs and parts of the body, although once thought to be found exclusively in the brain. Could it be assumed that a build-up of too much glutamate in areas outside the brain can also have devastating effects on these areas of the body, too? Asthma? Joint pain? Tumors? Skin Rashes?, Stomach disorders? Some forms of diabetes? Everything you say makes sense.
Judi Miller
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 12:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just found this web site and thought I would add my reaction. I recently began having an almost instantaneous reaction to MSG and found it to be in almost everything. I have a tickle in my throat and begin coughing, unable to clear it. I have realized it is the swelling of my soft tissue in my throat and the last time it got me a trip to the Emergency Room with severe respiratory distress. I am not asthmatic and do not smoke. I now carry an Epi Pen for emergency use.
Another interesting note, about a year ago I suddenly began having classic migraine headaches. I found this most strange since I am almost 50 years old and they just appeared.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 4:51 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Here's an article on migraines linked on the home page of this site:
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, do you know who is the author of this site?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 2:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


"The authors of the MSG Myth site, Mike and Deb(by) A(nglesey)."
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 3:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was just wondering who is the author of the Migraine Headache site that you just posted and which we have a link to. It's very good, but I noticed that it lists a few things as safe that most of us might have a problems with, such as, Ocean Spray Cranberry juice,(corn syrup and sulfites), Cheerios (modified food starch), Frosted Mini Wheats). But it's great that people are developing their own web sites to promote the cause. We need more of them!
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 5:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debby: To communicate with the owner of btnature, use the following Email: ----- I seem to recall one of the contributors to the NoMSG site telling us that she created the btnature site -- sorry, can't remember name.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 6:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,

The author of the migraine site, ,

only referred to themselves once therein:

"This site has been posted by one individual, who believes that one person CAN make a difference!"
Deb S
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 11:37 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of migraines, I woke up with one today. :( I attended a business-related meeting at a local, highly-regarded restaurant yesterday. The $9 admission, paid by my employer, included buffet lunch. I tried to pick the few items that might possibly be safe[er], but I was fooling myself. The steamed veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, carrots) were unexpectedly salty and flavorful; the roast pork tender and succulent; and the pasta salad might have had a dash of parmesan (plus who-knows-what-else). I ate very small portions. I should have brought my own sandwich from home, which I will definitely do for the next one in two weeks.

Symptoms: dull ache in the center of my brain radiating to the sides and towards the base of my skull; eyes dry and sensitive to bright light; sinuses feel dry and swollen; negative attitude and irritable, feeling detached from other people and surroundings; difficulty speaking and putting thoughts into words; trouble focusing and remembering things I need to do; sore upper back/shoulder muscles; hunger pangs; dry mouth. I took eight OTC ibuprofen and a couple spoonfuls of benedryl elixir, which are not having any noticeable effect. Of all the things we should avoid at restaurants, buffet food is the worst!!! >:/
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 12:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks guys, I was able to e mail the author, and was pleased when she e mailed back. I recognized the name. Yes, she is a long time member of NoMSG. I had heard very nice things about her via other members, and I thanked her for adding her voice to the cause. I did also ask her about some of the products she had listed as safe. I've always believed we are like tiny annoying bugs to the big corporations and certain government agencies, so the best way we have of reaching others is through grassroots efforts like posting websites like hers (check it's nicely done), writing newspapers, and magazines with editorials, and writing thank you's to stations which air anti-MSG shows. When we read an article about Migraine headaches or diabetes, whether MSG is mentioned or not, we should be ready to thank them if they do and educate them if they do not. I did that last year when Woman's Day Magazine ran such an article. I was shocked when they printed it in the Sept. issue! I can't do this alone, and I am no different, nor do I have any more clout or talent than any of you in writing these letters, so please do it at any opportunity that you can. It is one of the best weapons we still have. Don't be afraid, and know that it need not be time consuming. It's actually best if letters are brief and to the point, and polite. Magazines love to be thanked for an article they ran, and often print them. Thanks to all of you because I know many of you are doing great things to push the cause forward.
Deb S., your description of your symptoms describe mine when I'm "poisoned"...perfectly! How I dread the headaches, but the ugly way I feel afterwards is almost as bad! Try to take it easy today, if you can. Drink lots of water,( I add lemon juice to help cleanse the liver, and some swear by Tri-salts and Taurine) and if you feel up to it, do something up a sweat. Speeding up the metabolism and getting rid of toxins that way, seems to help some people quite a bit. If I start to get a headache in the evening, I sometimes will take a Benehist (cheaper form of Benedryl, and some Ibuprofen, and the Benehist knocks me out so that I can at least sleep through the night. I don't like any drugs, and have not had to do that for some time, but it helps when I hurt bad. So sorry you are suffering.
Joyce T.
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 7:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Friends ask why MSG causes migraines, earaches, disjointed vision. I would like a simple answer since they are trying to help me deal with this. I can understand the crabby colon syndrome in a way, because the food goes there. Thanks for all your help, I wish we could have a convention somewhere so we could all meet. One thing for sure, we would have safe food!!
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 10:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P.S.: I still have the same migraine that started over two days ago, caused by restaurant buffet food (see above). It was worse late yesterday, and seems like it will end sometime today. Another symptom I forgot is puffy eyelids and under-eye bags and dark circles. The other day someone took one look at me and asked if I had a headache--she's seen me that way before!

Another question I have is why does the menses cause such hightened sensitivity in women like me? For many years, that was the only time I got migraines, and it was regular and predictable, so of course doctors just blamed it on hormone changes. It must be due to a damaged hypothalamus, the part of the brain that controls the endocrine system and the part that is most vulnerable to excitotoxins.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 10:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dr. Schwartz tells us that MSG is a vasoconstrictor. When the veins constrict, the body (or brain) releases chemicals that counteract this, and when this happens, the walls of the veins expand and the blood suddenly flows more quickly and this causes pain. I may be interpreting this poorly. Wherever there are glutamate receptors in the body, you will get glutamate accumulated in that area. If the body or brain is unable to rid itself of an excess amount of glutamate, cells are overstimulated and there is destruction of cells and tissue. Although most of the glutamate receptors are in the brain due to it's major function as a neurotransmitter, receptors have been found in many areas and organs in the body, including lungs, breast, joints, eyes, pancreas, and other organs. Since the brain controls most of our body functions, any disruption or overstimulation there will effect other bodily functions, too. The hypothalamus region of the brain is the area most effected by excess glutamate, and it controls our entire endocrine system (glands, hormones, and organs), according to Dr. Blaylock. The eyes and ears are not only in close proximity to the brain, but contain millions of nerve endings, and often are effected by glutamate. In glaucoma patients, a very high amount of glutamic acid is found in the vitreous fluid. Hopefully, the chapter on glutamate in the book is more explanatory.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 4:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The hypothalamus also controls our reproductive hormones. Also, just before menstruation, the body stops releasing seratonin, the feel good chemical our brain produces. That's a huge reason for PMS. I have heard from several women who say that they bled heavily BEFORE they removed MSG from their diets. Brain chemistry is a very delicate state, and offsetting it can bring many abnormal responses.
Barbara Scoles
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 9:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just wanted to let you know that I have tried the Benedryl when getting a migraine and it really works for me!! A migraine woke me up in the middle of the night...I took the Benedryl and went back to bed and woke up feeling fine. However, I still got the stomach problem but I could live with that. Thank you all for the tip.
I have been eating organic for the last week and a half. It is a little more work but I think it will be worth it. My husband made the swiss steak recipe from your book, Deb. It was delicious!! Thanks again!
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 4:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Happy to help!
Donna Sawyer
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 4:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi! I had a reaction on Friday to food I ate at Foxwoods Casino Buffet. First mistake, gambling with money, second mistake, gambling with a buffet. At any rate, I always get a migraine when I consume any amount of MSG. I have also been feeling horrible for years and have now stuck to the No preservatives, additives, sulfites, etc. plan and feel 100% better in just 1 month. The reaction I had was one that I had before, many times, but always thought it was an anxiety attack. What happens is I feel like my body has shut down and can not breathe. It feels like my lungs are just not working. I have to keep working to get air. The strange thing is that I cannot stop fidgeting my feet and legs when this happens. I try very hard to lay still and relax but it does not help. I know now that it was not an anxiety attack as I had thought it was before. It was different. With anxiety attacks I used to get that "panicky" feeling and could always breathe but it was a fast paced breath. I also never got fidgety with an anxiety attack. I am wondering if it was the cheeses in a lasagna or something added to a piece of prime rib that I ate. It came upon me 3 hours after I ate and lasted over 1 1/2 hours. Anyone else have anything like this happen? I never got a migraine so I doubt there was any MSG that I had.
Evelyn H.
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 8:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had a bizarre reaction myself last night. I went to bed around 11 and woke up at 1 with incredibly itchy legs--basically the inside of calves and thighs. It could have been heat related but somehow I think it was linked to the nuts I consumed before bed. This is the first time I've ever had anything like this happen to me. Then I felt like I was having a hard time breathing. After I put some anti-itch creme on the rash, the itch subsided. After about half an hour the breathing difficulty subsided too and I could sleep again. Do you think it was the nuts or was it something else, likely?
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 9:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evelyn, some of the reactions you mentioned are often associated with sulfites, too. Nuts are bad territory. They are often coated with hydrolyzed protein to make salt stick to them, and are treated with sulfites as preservatives. So, it's possible to get a reaction from both MSG and sulfites. Sorry!
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 4:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I was five I ate raman noodle soup (a lot)and almost two days later I had a seizure. My mom took me to the doctor and they gave me an EEG. Nothing showed up. Someone told my mom that maybe MSG caused my seizure, so we stopped eating it (under the name MSG). I am eight now and I've had really bad headaches and pressure behind my eyes for the past three years. Recently I accidently ate MSG at a chinese restaurant and 44 hours later I had another seizure. My mom checked out this website and put me on an MSG free diet (hidden names, too). My headaches and eye pressure pain were gone in a week. I don't mind my new diet, in fact I kind of like it. My mom makes me yummy buttercreme candies from our new MSG free cookbook and I love them! My mom wants to know if other people get seizures from MSG. My doctor doesn't believe it happens and my mom wants to prove to him that it does.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 4:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Even pets can get seizures from MSG. For a story about one that did, click on the line below, and print it out for the doctor.
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 4:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Roy we did see about pets having seizures. That's the problem, we haven't seen anything about other people!
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 4:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Roy, we have seen the site about the dog. The problem is, we can't find anything about other people!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 5:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


On the site below is an article on seizures in people:


Michael A. Rogawski, M.D., Ph.D.

National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke

National Institutes of Health

Several lines of evidence establish the importance of glutamate-mediated neurotransmission in epilepsy and epileptogenesis. (i) Massive release of glutamate has been demonstrated in human brain during seizures. (ii) Glutamate and other agonists of glutamate receptors are powerful convulsants. (iii) Manipulations that enhance glutamate release or potentiate glutamate receptor function can result in epileptiform activity and seizures."

To see the rest of the article, click on the line below and move down to find the story:
Deb S
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 6:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found a few sites that link glutamate to seizures. Hope this helps, Emmy (& Emmy's mom). Good luck with your doctor!

There is also a lot of evidence that the artificial sweetener Aspartame (NutraSweet) causes seizures. About 50% of aspartame is aspartate, which is another excitatory amino acid and it has an additive and cumulative effect with glutamate. One of the above articles states that "aspartate is also more toxic to neurons than glutamate." MSG and aspartame can cause a lot of adverse reactions and cumulative damage to our brains and bodies, so there are plenty of reasons to avoid both even if you never have seizures. Keep us posted on how you're doing and what your doctor says when you show him some proof. :)
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 1:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emmy, because of this site and my book, I receive many inquiries (e mail and phone calls) and I have heard from at least 50 people who said they or a family member had suffered from seizures and/or tremors due to MSG. The problem we have is that no adequate scientific studies have been done on humans, and the people in government who are supposed to be safeguarding our health are greatly influenced to turn their heads and just accept what the gluatamate and the food industry tell them. Unfortunately, there are people who exchange favors (campaign money, positions, jobs)so that nothing is done to really bring about the tests that would prove to doctors what is really happening to people like us. In fact, most of the tests done have been paid for or influenced by the food industry. Doctors base their opinions on scientific facts, and all we have are the opinions of some scientists, tests on animals, and anecdotal evidence like the stories of the people who post here or who share their stories with me. I'm so glad that your Mom found this site. Hope you will let us know what your doctor says and how you are doing. I bet there are a lot more children in your school who are reacting to MSG and aspartame and don't even know it. We believe that the rise in ADD and ADHD and asthma is also related to all the MSG kids get today. You are a lucky girl to have a mom who makes such healthy food for you. Stay healthy! And yes, those butter creams are wonderful!
Emmys mom
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 2:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb, I work in a school with students who have severe psychological issues (an institution) since we discovered Emmy's problem with MSG I have spoken to the medical director at the school, about MSG and hope to do a study which would involve totally removing MSG from their diets and seeing if any of the kids have a decrease in problem behaviors. He has asked me provide him with any articles that support the theory that MSG can cause some of the behaviors we see. I found some citations in the cook-book of such articles but haven't been able to find them. Do you have any more? I think this study could be valuable.
Carol H
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 4:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emmy's Mom,

On food/drug information handed out to patients at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey, it states that MSG should be avoided by those on anti-seizure medications. I have reprinted that fact sheet on my non-profit website
Posted on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 7:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am so glad you are feeling better. My son was on a similar diet for ADD, and it helped him very much! He is a teenager now and is not as good about what he eats. I hope you stay on this diet for a very long time. It's wonderful that you and your mother have discovered a way to eat healthy, yummy, foods that make you feel good.
I am going to my cookbook to find that recipe for buttercreams right now. Thanks for mentioning it.
Maybe you could tell everyone on this discussion board some other of your favorite foods.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 5:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Emmy's mom,
This is wonderful news. It would be tremendous if you and your school could test students this way. Please let us know what transpires. I will send your request to Jack Samuels to see if he can find more "evidence" to support what we believe.
This could become the scientific evidence we need. I have dreamed of finding someone in a special school willing to eliminate MSG from the diets of their charges....not an easy task, but doable.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 7:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Emmy's mom,

The book linked below gives some case histories of behavioral improvement following the elimination of MSG from the diet. I'm anxious to hear the results of your experiment.
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 4:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emmy's mom, I just received this response from Jack Samuels of the Truth In Labeling Campaign. He was a hospital director before MSG took its toll on him. (


The medical director should go to a major libray and access the MEDLINE
retrieval service. (Medline is available on Internet, but I find the
services provided at libraries to be more complete.) He/she should do a
"keyword" search, inserting the words "glutamic acid and "learning
disabilities." The search should be from 1966 to present.

The search should produce about 70 articles, but all studies will be on
animals. He may also link "glutamic acid" with words such as "obesity,"
behavior," "asthma," "headache,'" "obesity," etc. I believe that the results
should convince him of the fact that glutamic acid, the reactive component of
the food ingredient "monosodium glutamate," and over 40 other food
ingredients with names that provide consumers with no clue of its presence,
places consumers at risk, particularly young people.

If the medical director would like, I would be pleased to provide additional
information. Also, I can put the medical director in touch with parents who
have resolved seizures in their children by elimination of processed free
glutamic acid (MSG) from their diets.

Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 4:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi again!
Jack just sent this, too:


Another thought.

I question if a school will properly eliminate MSG from their food service.
As you know, it is difficult to accomplish the task.

If they would like, I would be pleased to work with them to determine if
their changes in menu will accomplish what they are attempting to do. Of
course, there would be no charge for my help.

Emma's mom, Jack and his wife Adrienne are two of the nicest and most committed people to the cause that I know. His offer is generous and genuine, and I know he would help in any way he could. He knows this would be a great opportunity not only for those of us trying to fight this terrible toxin, but it would be of great benefit to the students at the school. What have they (and the medical director) got to lose? Please print up this information for him to read and consider. And thank YOU for being willing to become involved by sharing what you have learned with the people at your school.
Emmys Mom
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 4:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb, thanks so much for forwarding the information from Jack. I have printed it out and will pass it on to our medical director. I think the experiment will be do-able. We already have a behavior-tracking system in place-therefore it will be easy to compare the before and after behaviors. My students eat a lot of MSG and aspatame. Raman noodles are a favorite and the nutritionist only allows them to have diet soda. I've already discussed the idea with the cook, he said "Yeah, thanks a lot", but it sounded like he had already heard about it, so I think the director is considering it (anything to get published, I suppose). Hopefully it will happen, there is quite a bit of red tape to get through.
Also, if Jack needs parents who are willing to discuss the elimation of MSG and its correlation to ceased seizure activity, I'm willing to talk!!!
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 5:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Ruth, These are some other things I enjoy: homemade cocoa,yellow cake,and old time maple candy. My mom bought candy molds to make the buttercremes in different shapes. We also bought peppermint flavorings to make mint-flavored candy. It sounds like I only eat candy, but I don't. I like some vegetables, too and I like eating foods now that I didn't like before. I really miss McDonald's, but I miss headaches less!
My mom bought a breadmaker and we are going to make fresh bread. I like it much better than store bread. We are also going to make pretzles and bagels. My mom is also going to buy me an ice cream maker.Don't worry I plan on staying on the diet for the rest of my life. Thank you for worrying about me. I hope that you and your son both take my advice and go back on the diet.
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 9:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just discovered, with the help of my friends here, a great flour for my bread machine. It is white spelt. It makes a very good, light bread-not heavy like the darker spelt flour. The only place I have seen this flour is at Whole Foods Market, in the bulk section. It has no additives (at least, none are listed).
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 10:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ruth, is it very expensive?
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 11:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,
Sorry, my internet hasn't been working the last few days. The Organic White Spelt Flour, by "VitaSpelt," is unenriched, unbleached, and unbromated. It is $2.19lb. It made a great, light, mild tasting bread in my bread machine. I found it at Whole Foods. Hope you can find it.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 12:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Ruth. Expensive but probably worth it!
Beth E.
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2001 - 10:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Emmy, Emmy's mom and everyone else-

I just found this website two days ago thanks to Carol H.'s suggestion (she'd answered a question I'd posted to the nomsg site). I've been reading through old posts ever since and just found your discussion of msg-induced seizures. You are definitely not alone.

Here's my 10 year old son's story: he was admitted to our local children's hospital through the emergency room on January 4 after he woke up the morning after eating Chinese food and couldn't use his left arm or leg. I questioned all the doctors about the possibility that it was msg-induced because of the Chinese food (I've been suspicious for some time that msg affects him - mainly in behavioral ways, though, because he has sensory integrative problems (is undersensitive) and never complains about headaches, stomachaches, or the myriad of complaints most of the other posters here suffer from.) I have attempted to keep him away from labeled msg for about a year, but this Chinese restaurant had a very prominent NO MSG symbol on their menu - HA! That's the last time I'll be fooled by that. Anyway, my son's EEG was also normal, but on the evening of Feb. 12 after what I now realize was two days of MSG-laden eating (including a corndog and beef vegetable soup eaten with his dad at a cub scout winter event), he had three full blown grand mal seizures in a 15 hour period. An MRI showed nothing unusual, but I read Excitotoxins and In Bad Taste and was convinced. He has had problems with hypoglycemia since he was a toddler, and after reading Dr. Blaylock's book I understand why his brain is more susceptible to this junk. I immediately started giving him antioxidant vitamins and magnesium and have been very carefully monitoring everything he eats since then. I'm still suffering through the pains of what to cook, but my husband and I are thoroughly amazed by the positive changes we're noticing in him. What a joy he has been to be around lately! For the first time in his 10 years, this week he has managed to organize his morning routine all by himself (get up, dressed, make bed, make and eat breakfast, etc.) It's amazing!

The word HAS to get out about this. Even if most media powers-that-be are scared off by the big-money food interests, I do believe that a grassroots swell has begun thanks to the internet and caring and concerned people like Deb & Mike and everyone who takes the time to continually read and post here. Too many families are being affected by this somehow. In my son's 3rd thruough 5th grade intermediate school there are currently 30 kids who have asthma, not to mention all the learning problems, behavior problems,etc. My husband's aunt is a nurse who has been telling me about all her friends and relatives whose symptoms closely match many of those noted here. There's going to be a huge backlash and hopefully SOON!

I am still waiting (rather impatiently) for Debby's book to get here. I got excited when I saw it at the Healthpress website and ordered it without checking Amazon first - probably could have had it by now if I'd found your website or checked Amazon first. But I have found TONS of helpful information just reading these posts - THANK YOU All SO MUCH!
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 4:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Beth for sharing your experience. It is only through the relating of experience that we can come closer to answering the lingering questions we still have. If anyone else reading this has experiences to share, please share them. It helps all of us when you do.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 9:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beth, we're so glad you found the answers for your son. IF you don't mind, I will add your story to the others on a special page of this site dedicated to children and their plight. Hopefully other parents will be helped by these efforts. Thanks for sharing your experiences with others. I've always felt that the growing epidemic of conditions children are suffering due to excitotoxins will be the tragedy that finally gets our nation's attention.
By the way, we mail our books out the day after we receive an order via the Net and our site. We have just made lower prices available for orders of 2 or more books, too.
Beth E.
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 9:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A. - By all means, please add my message to your special page dedicated to children. And thanks again for all you do.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2001 - 7:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Beth. The stories on that page are growing all the time.
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 6:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My husband gets a strange rash on the back of his neck and up into his scalp from time to time, it can last a couple weeks. His skin peels off like a sunburn and it is red, weepy, and very sore. Does that sound like MSG? He also has fatigue, sciatica, lots of heartburn & stomach upset, terrible cluster headaches. Thanks.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I have stated in previous postings that my wife had a rash on the back of her neck and numbness in her left arm at times. She was a "heavy" Diet Pepsi drinker and only abstained from MSG when eating our combined prepared meals.

My previous postings indicated that I finally got her to reduce her MSG & Aspartame intake to see if the rash and numbness would go away. It did not, but did seem to lessen in severity (but she was still drinking Diet Pepsi -- albeit less).

When I started taking CoQ10 and told her of the benefits I was experiencing she wouldn't start taking it. It wasn't until she read in a women's magazine that CoQ10 could help reduce Cholesterol that she decided to start taking it. She takes 150 mg per day -- still drinks one or two Diet Pepsi's per day but pretty much stays away from all MSG.

Guess what -- no more rash or numbness -- go figure.

PS -- to all the other NOMSGers,

I have refrained from posting lately because I'm so encouraged to see so many postings from either "newbies" or people who have been "lurking" in the background. I didn't want us "continuous" posters to manipulate the site. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and the benefits you have seen from MSG abstinence &/or supplement successes. :)

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