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Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Helpful Remedies or Ways to Diminish Symptoms « Previous Next »

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Does chocolate help?Deb A.2-05-01  9:25 am
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Vicki Ketch
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 12:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can diminish some of the symptoms if you take a antihistimine as soon as your feel the headache or the symptom that appears first for you. I have found that as soon as my stomach starts to churn and my head starts to hurt, I can take a antihistimine and it helps me to get past the worst and then I will just feel yucky for a day or so. My reactions happen exactly 1 hour from eating, if you take something it takes 30 min. to work. See if it helps you, it has really saved me several time. I react so bad I carry a epi pen with me everywhere!!
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 4:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people take Benedryl for their symptoms, but I doubt that would help the people with stomach reactions. Many have tried taking powdered taurine, a B vitamin to help counter some of the effects. It's available through Dr. Carol Foster, neurologist and headache specialist, says that avoiding MSG is the best thing to do, because if you put distance between reaction episodes, headaches diminish in intensity and duration. Drink lots of water (fresh lemon added is good), and eat foods that have lots of fiber to help absorb some of the toxin and flush it out faster...psyllium seed stirred in water and taken every hour up to 3 or 4 times after a poisoning will help rid the stomach of some of the toxin. Some people say that working up a sweat to speed up metabolism and to get rid of some of the toxins helps them, even when they don' feel like exercising...but remember, learning how to avoid eating MSG is the best way to prevent more serious disorders down the road.
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 4:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Taurine and vitamin B6 definitely do help many people. Taurine is an amino acid which cancels the effects of MSG. An MSG reaction mimics a taurine deficiency. MSG probably interferes with the body's ability to make taurine from cysteine, because glutamate hinders cysteine metabolism. Taurine taken will solve this problem.

As for dealing with the excess glutamate still present - Vitamin B6 is used by the body to turn MSG into a substance called GABA which also has the opposite effect of MSG. (GABA by itself though, is another story... it is addictive, and spurs the body to increase its output of growth hormones).

Taking the amino acid taurine and vitamin B6 together helps some people more than either by itself, as Tom Fernstrom reported on the NoMsg site. Don't overdose on B6 - the RDA is 2 mg. It's best to eat good sources of B6 instead of taking vitamins but if you do get an MSG reaction, be aware that the chemical structure of folic acid by nature contains a string of glutamates, so it might be best to take taurine and vitamin B6 only and avoid B-complex vitamins containing folic acid.
Vicki Ketch
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 6:51 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I need to find a good multi-vitamin which is safe, can anyone recommend a good one? Also, I agreee whole heartly that avoiding MSG is the best way to stay healthy. Where do you buy the "taurine", can you buy it at a health food store?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 7:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Tom might know of a good source for vitamin B6.
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 9:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know if there is a type of blood test available so that you can determine what the levels of taurine are in your system? If yes, what is the range that is considered the norm?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 10:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vicki, so far I have not been able to tolerate any of the multi-vitamins that I have tried...and I have tried many over the years. Most of them have binders and fillers that contain one or more sources of free glutamic acid, not to mention the gelatin in gelcaps. Many vitamins and minerals are also chelated to amino acids, most of which are excitoxins like aspartic acid and glutamic acid and l-cysteine. When I get e mail from people who say that they are eliminating MSG and still feel a little "off", in every case, when I have asked them if they are still taking vitamins, they have responded with a "yes". They will go on to say that since they feel so bad or are afraid they aren't getting enough nutrients since they have changed their diets so much, they believed the vitamins would help them. AND when they report back after eliminating them, they have always said it was the vitamins that were giving them reactions. The vitamin industry dishes out a lot of hype, and doctors are paid to tout some of them, too. But we have 4 times the RDA for vitamins than most other countries. It's a huge business and people are getting rich because people are feeling lousy from their terribly processed food they turn to the promise of vitamins and supplements. If you eat more fresh fruits and vegetables, you will get the nutrients you need. I agree with everything that Carol has told us about taurine, and I personally take it if I suspect I've gotten MSG by mistake. I also take a KAL Dolomite powder for my calcium/ magnesium supplement. Some supplement with a powdered B6 or a powdered vitamin C crystals product(KAL makes that,too). If you start using whole grains,and whole grain flours, you will be getting far more B vitamins than you ever did. Flax oil is also a good supplement. And there are good sources for vitamin E..nuts, kiwi, honey, prunes, sunflower seeds, wheat germ (refrigerate),wheat germ oil, olive oil, and other oils. B6 is found in wheat germ, whole grains and cereals, spinach, sweet potatoes, lentils, mangos, raisins, bananas, watermelon and other foods as well.
Vicki Ketch
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 7:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A,
Thanks for all the good info., I will try some of these suggestions. It is SO nice to be able to exchange thoughts and information. I will check out the website. Until I found this website I was still having constant headaches, even after I had eliminated MSG in my diet. But, thru this website I now have very few headaches, and each one I have is related to the hidden msg. Thanks SO much!
Barty P.
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 12:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The last few weeks I have had a lot of knee pain in both legs. I have lots of trouble with msg and have learned how to avoid it (with your good help).
Many well meaning people advised me to take Glucosamine and Chondrotin, which I have for over a week and to my dismay, the pain in my knees has gotten much worse.
I reread the label and now I believe this may be the culprit.Not only is there gelatin and corn syrup solids, but Polysorbate 80.
What I need to know is;
what is chondrotin sulfate,magnesium stearic acid and croscarmellose?
I have a lot of trouble with sulfites. Are sulphates related to sulfites?
Can you recommend a book for a lay person to describe all these chemicals.
I love your group but can't find your web page "N0msg" any longer.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 3:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I took Glucosamine and Chondrotin to try to treat the pain in my left knee, and mine got worse, also. I gave the rest of it away. At the time, I thought it was just me and that others probably didn't react to it that way.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2000 - 5:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Again, as I have mentioned above, almost ALL pills, whether prescription, or OTC, will contain enough sources of free glutamic acid (the harmful component of MSG) to give any person sensitive to MSG, a reaction. It's a constant,consistent dose of excitotoxins. In Ruth Winter's additives book, she states that sulfites are added to pills as a form of preservative and stabilizer. Dr. Blaylock, in his book, states that when sulfites are also present with MSG in foods, the reaction will be intensified. The other substances in pills, Barty, sometimes are manufactured from food by-products and are hydrolyzed. Many vitamins are produced from soybeans, corn, and yeast, all high in glutamic acid. If a person is sulfur sensitive, it's best to avoid sulfates, although a "fate" is bound to salt I believe, and is less reactive than a "fite". Sulfites are highly acidic, and more dangerous, and cause almost immediate discomfort...belching, gas, stomach pain, bloating, back pain, diahrea, headache, etc. I should post a page from my book about sulfites on this site. Will try to get to that soon. Need more hours in the day!!! A friend of mine told me her 16 year old son is taking glucosamine (thinks it will help him in sports!), and she cornered me to tell me he is now having headaches and stomach problems. She wondered if it could be the pils. You know the rest of the story! I'm sorry if I sound a little cynical...I know how hard it is for someone who trusts the FDA to believe that there are actually harmful substances in pills that are supposed to help us. I just get frustrated sometimes. Trust what your body tells you. It's that simple.
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 2:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Debby's right, about sulfate being in a salt. Sulfate is an ion, meaning it has a charge like chloride in table salt. Sulfites are used as antioxidants, because they are more active.
Vicki K.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 6:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,
So, if there is sulfate in table salt, what should we use to salt our food?

Vicki K.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 7:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,
I bought the Psyllium Husk and mixed it with juice. Will this do the same thing as Psyllium seed? I was alittle apprehensive about it, but did not want to take the gel tablets. Thanks!
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 8:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use canning salt, but you can also use some sea salts that do not contain other additives.
The psyllium husk should be fine as a laxative. It's used in most commercial laxatives.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 10:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


A salt is a general name for a chemical compound where a metal atom with a charge on it (+ion) sticks by electrical charge to another chemical group with the opposite charge (-ion). In chemistry, a salt is what you get when you mix a strong acid with a strong base. The result is a type of salt and water, and usually lots of heat. Salts are more stable than either acids or bases. Sulfate, although it is not used in table salt (sodium chloride), can be compared to it because it behaves chemically in the same way as the chloride ion in table salt - the part attached to the sodium. They sort of stick together by electrical charge. Don't worry, sulfate is not usually in table salt.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 11:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vicki, I use only organic sea salt without iodide or anticaking agents which I buy at Trader Joe's. It is safe.
Vicki K.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 12:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the info. guys, I feel like I'm back in science class again. You guys are VERY helpful!
mona soliman
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 1:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have done a fast to help cleanse some of the toxin made up of lemons, cayenne pepper and maple syrup. IT is called The Master Cleanse and there is a book available by that name detailing the history and theology behind it. I have never felt better and if I could survive on it, I would drink it all my life. Also, sea salt which is available at most grocery stores or health food stores is recommended as a replacement for table salt. I am so excited to have found this site.
Years to your health,
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 9:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mona, can you tell us more about the fast? I remember when I was having the awful stomach problems years ago because of MSG and I had to fast 2 days for the lower GI test. I felt great for the first time in years. Fasting is a good way to get a great start on the diet changeover one must make to reclaim one's health after years of ingesting excitotoxins. What are the proportions of the ingredients of the cleansing drink and how often and for how long did you use it? My doctor had me drink a whole bottle of mineral oil at the end of the second day to really clean the bowel, and it gave me such stomach pain, I was doubled up. My heart goes out to all the people who are suffering through often painful and needless tests.
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 7:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before I became pregnant, I decided to get very serious about avoiding MSg and aspartame. I fasted for almost two days and just drank water the first day and then homemade lemon juice made with honey. I felt like a new person. I had energy and I could think so clearly. That sure proved to me the effect food poisons were having on me. I did take folic acid the first 2 months of my pregnancy and with the help of a dietician, I do not take any supplements after that. The prenatal vitamins I had started to take were giving me stomach trouble and constant headaches. Thanks to Debby A. and her book and you wonderful people who hlped me here, I'm feeling better than I ever did. :-) This site and board are a godsend.
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 2:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found this on the web while browsing and it sounds like the same thing, just passing it on (don't shoot the messanger)

The Master Cleanser or Lemonade Diet is our favorite all-purpose healing tool. Starwomyn had the honor of studying with Stanley Burroughs some years ago and she has passed his teaching on to me. The Lemonade is easy to make, cheap, and vitalizes the body like nothing else. It cleanses every part of the bodily system removing waste and toxins that may have been causing problems. It is also a blood builder helping to maintain a healthy blood stream.

Starwomyn used the Lemonade Diet to help rebuild her bones, muscles and digestive system when the M.D.s had told her that nothing would help her and she could expect nothing but further deterioration of her system. It is indicated for any chronic or acute condition ( people with diabetes please obtain "Healing for the age of Enlightenment" or "The Master Cleanser" for special instructions) and has been successful in treating many conditions otherwise considered untreatable .

THE FORMULA 2 Tbsp lemon or lime juice 2 Tbsp genuine maple syrup (grade C recommended) 1/10 Tsp cayenne pepper or to taste 10 oz hot water Combine the juice, maple syrup, and cayenne in a 10 oz glass and fill with medium hot water.

Always use pure maple syrup!
Always use fresh lemons or limes!
The maple syrup contains all the minerals that the body needs and the lemon or lime all the vitamins. Maple syrup is a balanced form of positive and negative sugar. Insure that the syrup that you use is organic and without contaminants that some operators use in the sugaring process.

The diet can be used for a minimum of ten days or more when following the full regimen. It is safe for much longer periods in serious cases. I have heard of people who have followed the regimen for up to 100 days without ill effect. In most cases you will want to use it for a much shorter period. NO OTHER FOOD SHOULD BE TAKEN WHEN FOLLOWING THE FULL REGIMEN. The lemonade provides everything that the body needs and other foods will interfere with the process. Drink from six to twelve glasses daily during your waking hours. When hunger strikes have another glass of lemonade.

The Master Cleanser cleanses waste and toxins from the system so if your system feels upset it is because you are not efficiently eliminating your waste products. An herbal laxative tea is a good helper in producing efficient elimination. Some folks take it right from the beginning --- once first thing in the morning and once the last thing in the evening. Drinking plenty of water during use of the diet helps a great deal as well. Give your system all the tools it needs to cleanse itself and you will be the beneficiary.

Lemonade can also be taken as a system cleansing aid without doing the full regimen. It is not as effective when used this way but still does a lot in terms of assisting the system to cleanse and detoxify. We usually take three to four glasses per day and drink lots of extra water when using it this way.

The information here is just an outline of what is available in either "Healing for the Age of Enlightenment" or "The Master Cleanser" both by Stanley Burroughs. They are in print and should be available at your nearest 'alternative' bookstore either on the shelf or by special order. I highly recommend that you obtain one of them before attempting the full regimen
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 2:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry here is the web address for the previous post:
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 4:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone know where organic or "pure" maple syrup can be found?
Deb S
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 6:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have found a few brands of pure, organic maple syrup in health food stores (Wild Oats, Whole Foods and the like), and I think Trader Joe's carries it sometimes (for less $). That's all we use on our waffles, french toast, etc. Yum! When I bought a non-organic kind (trying to save money), I could taste the difference.

Right now I have some organic maple syrup distributed by Natural Value of Sacramento, but it says "product of Canada."
Gerry Bush
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 9:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.- Trader Joe's has it, I was there today.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 10:51 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thaks Deb S. and Gerry. You have my mouth watering for some real maple syrup now!
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2000 - 7:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found something that really helps me, I just started to take 30mg Zinc (Zinc Gluconate) tablets, one per day, and I can tell you it reliefs most of my MSG symptoms, specially the nasal allergies and itching.

Quoted from the vitamins web site "Zinc is necessary for the production of brain neurotransmitters." , which MSG destroys.

"Zinc is necessary for the secretion, synthesis and utilization of insulin. It also protects the insulin-producing pancreatic beta cells
against destruction." , this may help protects against MSG damage to the Pancreas.

And for us men, Zinc levels in the body decrease when having sex or masturbating.

I experienced this myself on the weeks I had too much sex (6 to 8 times a week), these were the weeks I got the biggest MSG reactions, which I fixed by taking the Zinc tablets.

Also on the book Excitotoxins: The taste that kills, the Dr. explains that Zinc together with Magnesium are the 2 keys for the cell to protect against the MSG, Zinc is the one that closes the gate. I think this is why when I was Zinc deficient I got the biggest reactions. It was an open door for MSG to enter the neuron cells and start the reaction.

Goto the web link for more information on Zinc:
Donna Sawyer
Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 4:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi!I tried taurine and B6 and got a headache. I am not sure if it timing because I am just getting over a sinus infection, but I am afraid to try it again. Has this happened to anyone else? I haven't eaten anything that was even remotely unsafe for 2 weeks now as I am trying to eliminate all toxins. Donna
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 8:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Donna,
I had the same thing happen when I tried taurine, two different times with different brands. There was nothing else it could have been either. Just one tablet/capsule-contents only and the result was an all-day headache. I felt as though I was reacting to the taurine much like I do to MSG and tyramine. B6 seems to be okay for me if I only take it every 2nd or 3rd day (and the fillers appear safe).
Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 6:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was able to purchase Magnesium Phosphate crystals from my naturopath. I place about 5 of them (they're the size of a pinhead) under my tongue when I get an MSG reaction. Mine feels like someone kicked me in the back of the neck and pain radiates to my shoulder. That night I can't sleep and feel 'wired'.

You may be able to find them at a compounding or other pharmacy that carries homopathic products. I've never seen them in chain pharacies or in the vitamin section of the health food store. Since thy're pure, there's no binders or fillers.

I just tried them again last night and this morning I feel a little achey, but I slept well.

It was a good test because I'd been lulled into complacency while on vacation in Bonaire. Found I was able to eat almost anything there without the typical reaction! Fish, shrimp, cream cheese, breads, ice cream. Even tried their citrus vingerette dressing which was made at the restaurant. Then without thinking, I started to eat the chicken and pasta dish served on the airline on the way home. Only 2 bites and wham. Welcome back in the real world (and its cold, too!!)

A good tip - we ate at the same restaurant, and asked for the same waiter each night. Once we'd "broken him in" on what I was trying to avoid, he was very helpful in accomodating me and suggesting alternatives. For example, I still avoided cream sauces and parmasen cheese.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 8:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Connie. Did your naturopathic doctor suggest the magnesium phosphate crystals? I'm just curious about the science behind it that he may have explained to you, and why it would help during an MSG reaction. You vacation sounded wonderful!
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 7:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, she did give them to me, but there are so many questions to be asked...I'll get her rational for suggesting them next time I go.
Donna Sawyer
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 5:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb S. I wonder why more people have not had similar reactions as we did to the taurine and B6. The taurine I ordered was online and said it was free of all the usual fillers that cause us problems. I took them for their word, BIG MISTAKE, and found, after my head began to ache, that it had gelatin as a filler. It had to be that filler as it didn't seem to have anything else in it. I am giving away the 5 bottles I bought to -ON SALE- to a friend who is a weight lifter. He seems happy. Thanks for your response. Donna
Deb S
Posted on Monday, January 15, 2001 - 7:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If your taurine had gelatin in it, then that indeed was your culprit. Gelatin always has MSG, and I react to it. The first bottle I bought was Twinlab tablets, and although the label appeared safe, I found the same brand in a different store with fillers that included maltodextrin, so I deduced that the bottle I purchased was the new formula with an old label. The 2nd bottle I purchased (online) is by Advanced Medical Nutrition, Inc., and is in gelatin capsules. I emptied the contents into some applesauce and threw out the capsule. Now I'm looking at the label and it says: "Other ingredients: Gelatin, cellulose, magnesium stearate, silica, and water." I assumed the gelatin was just the capsule, but I suppose it's possible that they mix it in with the taurine as well. Maybe I should be brave and try yet a third brand. Several people on these message boards swear by the taurine they get from Beyond-a-Century.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 2:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Donna & other NOMSGers,

As I have listed before below are the:


NAME Pill Size Dosage Frequency

Taurine 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 750mg per 1/4 tsp.

Mag. Orotate 1/4 tsp. Powder 2 Daily
Beyond a Century 73mg per 1/4 tsp.

Vitamin B-6 25 mg 1 Daily
Mason Vitamins, INC., Miami, Fla
1,250% of the RDA It says it is free of Sodium, Wheat, Corn, Yeast, Soy, Gluten, Egg, Fragrance, Artificial Colors or Flavors and Preservatives.
Other ingredients: Croscarmellose Sodium, Lactose, Magnesium Stearate and Microcrystalline Cellulose.

Geritol Tablet 1 Daily

CoQ10 50mg capsule 4 Daily
"Member's Mark" @ Sam's Club

The Taurine & Magnesium have no fillers and the addition of the CoQ10 has allowed me some leaway in the amount of MSG containing food products I can consume without a reaction.

Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 2:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's an article on chemical sensitivities, ending with a list of supplements that might help:
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 3:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting link, Roy. Anyone notice the references to formaldehyde, one of the breakdown products of aspartame? I wonder how much of the stuff breaks down when people use Equal in their hot coffee?? The aspartame I was exposed to in large quantities was in a machine that used hot air. I wonder how stable that aspartame was. Also, I was encouraged by another mention of taurine and vitamin B6. It seems some of the same things that help people with MCS already help those with MSG sensitivity. Maybe I should continue to take taurine regularly like Tom.
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy - Thanks for the site. Here's another one that may be of interest: (Click on Food section)
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 6:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Carol
It's Adam from the old website discussion board-I thought it was very odd that all of the old discussion board information was lost and not backed up-so I have been leery to post on that one and finally found a link to this board.
Is it diphenhydramine or dextromaphorthan that is used as an MSG antidote-I am assuming it is diphen.-found in Tylenol Sleep pills(since I have been using them with great success as an antidote at nighttitme). For lack of a better term -I have experienced a brain F#@t !
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 8:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd be careful about taking dextromethorphan:

"dextromethorphan (dek´´stro-meth´or-fan) a synthetic morphine derivative used as an antitussive in the form of the hydrobromide salt.
From: Miller-Keane Medical Dictionary, 2000"


Also see:

Here's a page about overdoses:
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 9:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


An injection of the antihistamine diphenhydramine, otherwise known as Benadryl, which is said to have "anticholinergic properties", is what almost instantly brought me out of anaphylactic shock accompanied by blackout and involuntary shaking. The reaction had not been to MSG, but to red dye #3, another substance thought to affect the neurotransmitters of the brain.

This makes me think that it could be helpful in terms of an MSG reaction, although I have not taken it for that purpose and know of no studies to support such a use.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 9:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's a web page regarding overdose reactions to diphenhydramine (benadryl):
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 2:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The link below has a section on "adverse effects" related to Coenzyme Q10 use (some of which appear beneficial).

This may explain why some who have tried it say CoQ10 reduces their MSG symptoms, while others seem to have trouble with it:
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 7:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After reading Dr.Russell L. Blaylock article "Not Just Another Scare:Toxin Additives in Your Food and Drink" I have a question to all of you. If someone was able to come up with a medication that blocked the msg from entering would you take it? As long as there are no side affects.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 8:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


That's like asking "If someone found the fountain of youth, would you drink from it?"
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 10:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forget MSG-I'd never go back to eating that stuff! I would like to be able to eat raw and cooked vegetables again, like tomato and mushroom, so high in natural glutamates. And make soups and stews again, combining meat, vegetables, and water, cooked slow, releasing all that hydrolyzed vegetable protein (MSG). Anonymous, glutamates are in EVERYTHING! You have not read the info here. There is a great deal you need to learn before you make such statements and ask a question like that. Thank goodness I found this discussion group-the knowledge I have gained here has greatly improved the quality of my life!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 4:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The vitamin seller linked below claims that regularly taking methylcobalamin, a form of B-12, protects aginst MSG damage:
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 8:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very interesting website. Sounds like B-12 can help a lot of problems, several of which my daughter and I might benefit from. I'll do a search here and see what kind everyone is taking.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 2:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More on methylcobalamin from another seller of it:
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 12:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Roy
I find that 25 mg. of diphenhydramine acts as an antidote to msg reactions. I keep it on hand for severe reactions as well. With a severe reaction, I take two(50mgs.) with lots of water and tylenol and when I wake up -I feel almost completely better. I wish I could take it every night or at least 4-5 times a week at this dosage, but the WebMD article made me think about liver damage. I guess for now that I will use it only when I get hit by MSG. Honestly, for the last month I think I have been blind-sidedly poisoned almost every day. If it isn't "fresh" pork from the local supermarket, it is a California orange/broccoli and the list goes on. I have had reactions to cheese that I thought was safe, and spaghetti sauce.
I am going to try some CoQ10 wafers from a company that I found (don't have the name right here). I contacted them and they said there is no msg whatsoever in their wafers. The B6 is not working-in fact the fillers could be another source of MSG. I only take 25 mg. a couple times a week(with constipation and heartburn). I ran out of taurine and need to get some more. I am having a month that feels kind of hopeless-I am remaining optimistic but feeling helpless once again against the MSG spectre.
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 3:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm pretty sure that everything you mentioned, with the exception of the orange?, is high in natural glutamates. There is also natural tyramine and sulfites to consider. Maybe you need to eliminate some foods high in natural glutamates, or don't cook them very long. I remember reading from the old NoMSG website that there was no safe pork.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 6:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From the old NoMSG web site about pork:

By Gerry Bush on Saturday, February 19, 2000 - 10:22 pm:

Carol, The Whole Foods Supermarkets are all over the USA I believe. But we should still use caution there. For example, they have a large section of home made foods that look yummy.....but I walk by it. I trust no chicken, no pork and no turkey unless I buy it from the farm that raised it. You cannot imagine the trauma my body suffered from the sodium phosphates and lactates in those meats.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 7:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Adam! Glad to have you back. Adam, you may already be getting enough B6 and may not be deficient in it. That may be why you see no improvement there. Diphenhydramine was the anti-histamine in question. I also just thought of an interesting connection. I am to avoid diphenhydramine because it interferes with my anti-tumor medication, which is a dopamine agonist. Again the relationship between a MSG reaction remedy and a dopamine agonist. Vitamin B6 also interferes with my dopamine agonist medication, which is also the medication that is used for Parkinsons patients. Coincidence? I think not. Roy, and Tom, what do you think of this connection?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 2:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


It is no coincidence that glutamate blocker medications are being developed for Parkinsons. I suspect, however, that they will turn out to be less effective in treating damage than in preventing it, sort of like locking the (calcium channel) gate after the cows (in this case neurons) are gone. I wonder how useful amantadine would be in the event of a serious MSG reaction?

"Only one glutamate blocker, amantadine (Symmetrel®) , is available for use in the general public. Other compounds that are being developed include remacemide, nemantadine and riluzole (Rilutek®)."
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 2:51 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would be very careful about using amantadine (Symmetrel®) because of its serious side effects:,67020.asp
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 6:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello everyone :) Hi Carol-good to be back.
I was surprised to see that the Diphenhydramine was actually the same thing as Benadryl.
I had looked into glutamate blockers a few years ago when I first made the MSG connection. I was alarmed to hear about the side effects of these drugs. I am not looking forward to these pharmaceutical companies coming out with something to combat MSG. (side effects, liver damage, etc.) If million$ of dollars can be made due to the intentional poisoning of food than nothing will ever improve-it will only get worse-and it is epidemic at best right now. MSG is in almost every breakfast cereal out there-sometimes 4 kinds in one cereal. No wonder ADD and Dyslexia is so rampant! The FDA is killing us and money rules-as American's health condition slides down further and further.
Christine K.P.S
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 7:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the pork mentioned above include that purchased at the Whole Foods meat counter as one to avoid if one is MSG intolerant?
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 4:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Adam....good to have you back. I want to let everyone know that we posted some info and pics concerning the Reno meeting on the home page of our site.
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 7:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Deb-thanks for the warm welcome-I am happy to be back!
I cannot wait to look at the Reno meeting info. I am assuming Janet Reno....
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 8:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha ha ha! Sorry, no Janet.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 6:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H,

You are so correct when you state, "It is no coincidence that glutamate blocker medications are being developed for Parkinson's. I suspect, however, that they will turn out to be less effective in treating damage than in preventing it, sort of like locking the (calcium channel) gate after the cows (in this case neurons) are gone."

Since natural glutamate at "reasonable" levels is necessary for proper cellular function, a glutamate "Blocker" drug would have to be very sophisticated to combat the excesses coming in at various degrees from food consumption.

I could see its benefit in stroke victims because of the controlled environment. At the time that the stroke occurs the blood flow is reduced and the brain cells are being starved of oxygen and energy. The normal levels of glutamate become lethal to the affected brain cells and cause them to die thus causing the stroke symptoms. Since there is no ingestion of additional glutamate at this time by the victim and because the damage can occur so quickly, the dosage of the glutamate "blocker" and its affects can be controlled.

Unless you convinced all Parkinson patients to abstain from MSG consumption (which as you can read here is next to impossible for us to do) and you establish what normal levels of glutamate should be maintained, I don't see how a "blocker" could work correctly.

That is why my experimentation with CoQ10 is designed to reach a dosage where the cells are being provided enough energy on a regular basis to combat excessive levels of glutamate when they occur. If the glutamate levels are normal, the excess energy is not required and should be stored. This might be too simplistic, but that is how I view it.

Also, it is becoming more and more difficult for me to accept "studies" of various drugs and supplements when none of these studies place controls of food consumption. How can these scientists possibly ignore potential food allergies or interactions when doing their studies? If they admit that applying these controls would be useless in approving these substances for "normal" consumption, aren't they admitting that there ARE foods and/or additives that could affect the substance's benefits?

For example, what would happen to my CoQ10 dosage effectiveness if I did not watch my diet and abstain from added MSG? Couldn't the dosage be thought to be ineffective for what I was taking it for? And maybe the reactions I would surely start having to increased levels of MSG might be thought to be related to CoQ10? It's mind boggling!
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 5:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Tom, how much CoQ10 are you taking now?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 6:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I have just recently increased my dosage to 75mg/4 times daily (150AM/150PM). Had a wonderful trip down to Tampa, ate out every day and not one episode. Even forgot to bring along my Taurine & magnesium, but will continue to take those dosages because I have a blood test coming up and want to see the results while continuing my long term regimine.

As I mentioned earlier, my wife has continued taking the CoQ10 75mg/2 times daily, and her rash has gone and no arm or leg numbness (but she still drinks a couple of Diet Pepsis per day).
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 8:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, actually Roy came up with that excellent quote.
I have been taking CoQ10 twice a day. I have been opening the capsules and mixing them with a small teaspoon of tahini (pure sesame paste). It reminds me of halvah candy, so I don't mind the taste. I have noticed that my allergic reactions still occur - lower blood pressure, and some sleepiness, but the reactions don't involve the severe facial swelling. I can function better, although I can still tell I've had a reaction. As an example, I had gone out last nite, to dinner at a Japanese restaurant, and out to see the band and had a reaction. Today I forgot to take the CoQ10. I was so out of it, that I hit another car in the parking lot at work, while backing out of a spot. That is the first accident I was ever in while driving a car in the past 18 years.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 9:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Sorry to hear about your accident.

If I'm driving and get hit by a reaction, I pull the car over so I don't hit something else. If I feel really out of it, I park in a safe, well-lit place and nap until I've recovered enough to drive safely.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 8:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom and Carol and other CoQ10 users: About Oct/Nov I began taking 100 mg daily of CoQ10 along with an allergy-free multi-vitamin. Then I dropped both at the same time 'cause I hate taking pills (I know, stupid to do both at the same time). Anyway, after about a week or so I started falling apart; reactions, feeling not in my own skin, numbness, and a strange 'body buzz' I get. Anyway, I went back on both since I didn't know which might be helping. Then about January I once again gave up the multi-vitamin but continued the CoQ10 and I have felt terrific. Situation: March 8 I had a celiac spru test. During the exam they found two spots in my stomach and started looking at the virus/bacteria (or whatever) to see if I have ulcers. No such culprit. I'm jumping the gun because I go in March 22 for the celiac results and will learn what he thinks the two spots are (gawd, ulcers would be the best of any alternative I can think of). Based on the possibility of ulcers, I quit the CoQ10. In five days I had terrible reactions to most foods I had begun to tolerate, hypoglycemic symptoms rose, and I had the weird body buzz and being out of skin sensations. As you and others talked of more immediate results from CoQ10, I did start it up again and DID have results in one day. I'm back to my old self. Dilemma: how can I take the CoQ10 and save the stomach (assuming that we're talking ulcers). Would you try (1) take the contents from a 100 mg from its capsule and do in halves in a teaspoon of Flaxseed oil? thereby reducing the dose to 50 mg daily (2) get a 300 mg capsule and take really small dose to estimate 50 mg? (3) take a pepto bismo (or what else could I take?) to coat my stomach (4) take a liquid CoQ10 (I saw that at Wild Oats but didn't buy it) on the thought that liquid might be easier to digest? or (5) find additional ways to bolster the immune system? And what would those be?

None of us are doctors I know, but your ideas of what you would do if you now learned you had stomach problems and wanted to continue the possible culprit of CoQ10...that would be a huge help to me. I guess there are three issues: is it the CoQ10 that might cause gastic distress in some, is it the coating/binding/capsule, is there a way to ingest the CoQ10 to minimize contact/irritation to the stomach.

Thank you.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 9:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, I know I'm being risky, but I empty the contents of the capsule into a spoonful of tahini - pure sesame paste - which is high in fat. It is probably best to take with as much food as possible. I haven't been checked for ulcers or anything of that nature yet, so I'm not sure exactly what the consequences would be. I'm taking a chance, but it does make a big difference in how I feel. CoQ10 has been extensively studied, and the nutritionist at my hospital tells me CoQ10 is actually in the formulary at the hospital for heart disease patients. That means there is probably a lot of info on the books already compiled on adverse effects.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 10:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd like to get some brand names of CoQ10 that some of you have found to work best for you and know if you take it out of the capsule. Judy, could you list the ingredients in the liquid form of it, unless it's too much trouble ..if you ever get a chance at Wild Oats again? We don't have a Wild Oats here, but i could order some, possibly. This has been so interesting reading about all the results some of you have had. I couldn't stand the chest pain (75mg)I got from taking the brand I took for 4 days. They disappeared when I stopped, but I would be willing to try another product.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 10:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P.S. Remember, foods with fiber and fat slow the absorption of foods into the body, so take things with food if you want a slower release.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 10:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Carol! Feels like a chat room.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 12:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. I take CoQ10 (Ultra, 100 mg) from TwinLabs. Deb A: As soon as I get to Reno I'll go to Wild Oats and get the ingredients. As I recall, it said something about 'orange flavor' and that scared me off. You know, if there is anything ever in Reno Wild Oats, you don't need to order it from them, I'd just mail it to you. Carol: good thought about the fiber. I once had a bad reaction (or so I thought) to tahini so for now I'll do the fiber. I did empty a capsule and put half in a 1/2 tablespoon of flaxseed oil. This is all a crapshoot (a Nevada term that's ok!?) As for adverse side effects, the study by the NIH that Tom posted said that some of the study participants were released for gastric problems but other than that what I can see 'they' keep saying there are no adverse effects. It was on the basis that I started with 100mg in the first place.

I appreciate your response and thoughts. How warming to know I'm not out here alone.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 12:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol: Help me understand. If fibers help with a slower digestion, is that good, if the substance or food is in the stomach longer? Or is it better to eat on an empty stomach so the 'stuff' is digested faster? This is a simplistic question for sure...but...
Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 7:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found a reference posted by the moderator at the excellent discussion board for chemically sensitive folks located at
that suggests to investigate the ORIGIN of the supplements and ingredients within a vitamin (which never crossed my mind).

For example, here is what was posted about Solgar vitamins: "Solgar products are made from the world's finest raw materials. As we discussed, there are many natural sources used in Solgar products. For example, vitamin E, lecithin, hosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine and isoflavones are from soy, minerals are mined from the earth, and amino acids and vitamin C are produced utilizing a microbiological fermentation process. You were particularly interested in the origin of the following materials. Vegetable cellulose and microcyrstalline cellulose are derived from conifer trees, specifically pine, spruce, and western hemlock. Vegetable magnesium stearate is derived from palm oil. Vegetable glycerin is from coconut and palm kernel oil. There are no fat calories or hydrogenated fat in the vegetable magnesium stearate or vegetable glycerin materials. Vegetable stearic acid is derived from palm oil. D. salina is a salt water, red algae. Many of the carotenes are derived from this marine algae. L-Cysteine, NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine), and L-Cystine are sulfur containing amino acids. The starting material for these amino acids is duck feathers. All other amino acids that Solgar offers are produced using a fermentation process with the starting material being beet or cane sugar. Please contact our Product Information Center at the number below for more specific information regarding a particular product."

Some of these things sound like possible trouble don't they? Examples: Beet sugar --- as in MSG? Fermentation ---- as in tyramine?
Judy T
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol: I've begun to do what you suggest; I'm taking the CoQ10 (I've decided to empty half the 100mg capsule into a spoon with one teaspoon of flax oil) and eat it AFTER a meal that has fiber and fat. I still am thinking of getting 300mg and dividing that into small, small increments, as the capsules are the same size no matter what the dosage which means there has to be more filler in the 50mg and 100mg capsules. Thank you, Carol.

MEMorris: I love the references and sources you provided. I'm copying frantically to keep on hand. I have the Tom's of Maine natural glycerin soap box here and it has this: "Sodium cocate from coconut oil and soda ash, Sodium palmate from Palm oils and soda ash, glycerin from product of soap (plant based), Sucrose from sugar cane, Sorbitol from corn syrup, and Sodium gluconate from corn startch." All this helps me because corn derivates give me a bad time. Thank you MEMorris.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for your generous offer, Judy, concerning Wild Oats products. I'd place a smiley face here, if I knew how to do it! I may just try the Twin Lab brand next. Wish me luck!
Laurie M
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:36 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A
Just type a colon and a parenthese??-spelling? next to each other to make a sideways smiley face and the program will turn it into a smiley face for you. : ). I put a space between so the computer wouldn't change it.
Judy T
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorris: Thank you; I signed up for the yahoo.member and am in the process of figuring out entry. This will be helpful for sure.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 2:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy, about fiber. It depends on the effect you are going for. I wasn't sure of the results of taking the CoQ10 out of the capsule and wanted to slow down the digestion of it and at the same time give the CoQ10 something to dissolve in since it is fat soluble. Fat triggers the small intestine to send a signal to the stomach not to empty so fast. Fiber takes a little while to digest, but be aware that fiber can bind with some medications. It is probably more important to take the CoQ10 with fat. The fiber is probably not necessary, and may interfere with absorption. Other things you want to work quickly should be taken on an empty stomach, without fiber in the way.

Excellent work. On CoQ10 I just bought, I realized too late that although the inactive ingredients were fine, that lecithin was added to the CoQ10 as an ACTIVE ingredient. I usually avoid lecithin due to soy allergy, but I was so busy looking at the inactive ingredient list that I bought the wrong thing :(
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 6:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Laurie. I've tried the :-) smile, but not the fancy ones that are like Carol's above. Have to bug Mike, I guess!
Deb S
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 8:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb -
It's really easy! You just type what you did, only leave out the hyphen and leave the colon and parenthesis squished together (use the left parenthesis for a frown). Then when you click on Preview/Post Message, look in the preview box. Voila! a fancy face! :) Go ahead, test it out!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2001 - 9:02 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me try this too!


Great! Thanks, I too wondered how to do this. I feel like a smiley face right now!
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 7:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've always wanted to try this too. And I really could use one right now. Let's see if it works... Christine :)
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 8:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey it worked!!! This is helping to make my day.

Some of you may remember that I went to see an environmental medical physician on March 8th and I had the question of the glutamate, etc. in the detox powder that the doctor "prescribed" or rather encouraged me to take. Deb S. (I think it was you) had found the ingredients and posted them here. Well, I went on that website (I don't think it was exactly the same formulation as the one my husband read in that office but it was close) and found that there were cautions regarding the use of that product and pregnancy and breastfeeding. It had been suggested not for use in those patients. I had written an e-mail to that HealthComm company with my question just to verify whether it was specifically the powder or the diet (which I wasn't put on) that went along with the detox program. WELL.....In return I received an advertisement!!! Needless to say, I'm verrry angry.

When the nurse from the doctor's office called to say that the rep still assured her that there was no MSG in the product, I expained to her that now above and beyond the glutamate question for me was that fact that that doctor suggested that I take something that the company placed a caution on the website. She said they were just trying to cover themselves. I told her that there were reasons companies put warnings on products and I wasn't "going down that road with them" and that I wasn't "going to be a guinea pig either". She couldn't understand why the product container didn't have that caution on it and would inquire with the rep. I suspect that there should at least be a more detailed description that they were provided somewhere. I've been so upset. I know I need to see a doctor who understands these issues and had thought I'd found one in my own back yard, practically. The nurse did leave me a message the next night to the effect that I was right...if it has natural flavors then the doctor said I shouldn't have it anyways and also if I'm breastfeeding. BUT, I told them this when I was there. My husband will return the unused fecal, saliva, and urine tests to their office within the next day or so. We cannot trust them to look out for my and our baby's wellbeing. I sometimes think I could be educating them about MSG,etc. which I'm glad to do, but I think that it was completely unethical for them to not know about the breastfeeding cautions and it is more for that reason that I will not return to their office.

I thank Deb S. for turning me on to that website; otherwise, I may not have known about the caution until I'd already taken the powder or possibly never. We truly and sincerely thank you.

As an aside, does anyone ever still go through stages of denial? Perhaps particularly while under the influence? Sincerely, Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 8:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wish I could add on to the above message without having to start a new one....Iguess I've been wondering whether it's been PMS or MSG reactions. Last month was the very first month I think ever in my whole life that I never had ANY PMS symptoms. This month I've had sypmtoms. I think with my 1/8 teaspoon Accent experiment, eating those darn corn chips, which I've eliminated. Now, it's back to potato chips. Barbara's brand and Kettle chips. Ate some on Sunday and seemed to have no reaction. Actually I'd never felt better. I WANT THAT EVERYDAY!!! Then, yesterday I had some again and had a reaction: listless, slight headache, would get very warm, then later that night anger at husband (not usual stuff). I threw away (I actually wanted to heave it somewhere) my MedicAlert bracelet (thus the denial). I helped him find it this morning but he hid it from me so I wouldn't throw it somewhere while he was at work. Now I do feel much clearer and wouldn't throw anywhere. It's like an addict. That's why I couldn't figure out whether it was MSG, sulfites (They claim "Absolutely no preservatives".), or PMS. Having read a post here yesterday about fiber slowing down absorption made something click. On Sunday, I had the chips AFTER I ate three pieces of spelt toast with raw almond butter and yesterday, I ate the chips BEFORE. Hmmmm! Christine:):):)
Deb S
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 9:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, I'm really happy that I could be of help. My 100s (1000s?) of hours spent doing internet research sometimes pays off! :) I have learned to be especially cautious about these so-called "health food supplements" that companies are touting, after a good friend wound up with dangerously high blood pressure (with no prior history) after taking a product she found at General Nutrition Center called "Ultra CitraLean." She suspected that was the cause and stopped taking it, and sure enough after a couple weeks her BP was back to normal.

Re: potato chips -- Due to the widespread use of AuxiGro on potato crops, the only truly safe potato chips are ones made from certified organic potatoes. But good luck finding such a brand. I found some by Garden of Eatin' at the local Wild Oats affiliated store. They're a bit salty, which actually helps to limit how many you want to eat. And for some strange (?) reason they're not so addicting. You probably are able to tolerate a certain amount of the Barbara's or Kettle Chips, but then when you ate some more it added up to trigger a reaction. Small amounts of MSG can accumulate in your system over several days' time, some say even weeks. :(
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 10:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb S.
Thank you for the suggestion of the Garden of Eatin' chips. Even though I used to eat them,I didn't realize that they are organic. That may make the difference. Now that you mentioned it, I began looking at things like my Barbara's Breakfast Oats cereal, which isn't organic. Haven't seemed to have had a problem with it but just to be safe, I poured it back into the box and ate the organic Kamut puffs that I have instead (with organic milk of course). I thought that I was eating organically. Thank you for pointing out that I still have some work to do. This is intriguing.:)
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 10:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

O.K. so I can now confirm (this may be more into than anyone wants) that it was, in fact, PMS. Or was it? Yes, my period has now started. But, it's the classic, cliche': Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, the PMS or the MSG?
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 1:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

:) What fun! Thank you, Deb! Didn't have a chance to sit at the computor until this minute. Looks like you have spread cheer among several of us with your :)'s !
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 7:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yesterday, I did receive--finally--a response to my question of use of the detox powder in breastfeeding women from the company. So much for a reply in 48 hours (other than that advertisement).

Anyways, basically I was told that the reason that the notice is there is not because it is unsafe but because it just hasn't been tested in that population.

Well, my thought is that just because it hasn't been tested in that population also doesn't mean that it IS safe. Hmmmm....
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 8:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I beg your pardon everyone. The advertisement that I had received as an initial response to my detox powder/breastfeeding question is actually a part of the HealthDesigns Newsletter for March 2001. It discusses healthy hormone balance and their products that have proven beneficial. I didn't mean to portray that it was strictly an ad (HA, HA, HA!!!).

Talk to you all soon.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 9:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGers,

I have been pondering the fact that some of you have been able to "handle" CoQ10 and find relief and others have had unpleasant reactions.

One thing that may make my situation different is that I am still on a low carb/higher fat & protein diet. When I hear others of you talking about chips and crackers and bread and pasta, etc., I realize how lucky I am that I don't have to investigate the safety of these foods because I don't eat them.

One of the benefits of a low carb diet is what your body starts using for an energy source - FAT. When you limit the carbs you reduce the glucose available for energy and switch the body's mechanism into burning fat instead. Once the body is sustained in this mode, it burns fat more efficiently (possibly allowing for better absorption of the CoQ10). Maybe this is why I have no reactions and have benefitted so from the CoQ10.
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Tom,
Would you be kind enough to share again with us or tell us where to find info that I think you already have posted here regarding your typical day's nutrition plan. I tried high protein diet under keyword search but cannot find it yet. I had hoped not to bother you about it since I thought you had already provided a list.

My whole life, since I was 3 weeks old, I have eaten some form of cereal, grains, etc. As I grew up much of what I ate was cereals, breads, English muffins often with peanut butter and jelly. Now I try to at least eat whole grains. What do you do for breakfast, snacks, fruits and vegetables, and whole grains all of which have many carbs. I feel that they are complex carbs. which very beneficial--some brain food--like proteins and fats too.

I would appreciate any insight. I find it difficult to get enough to eat without them. Plus, I'm trying to get vitamins from the foods that I eat. I tend to burn fat quickly anyways regardless of what I eat. You all may think lucky you but it's a challenge to gain weight when necessary such as during pregnancy. Thank you for your time. Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To anyone who eats a caveman diet: Would you be kind enough to explain your typical day's nutrition plan. I have many books on caveman allergy diets for rotating and eliminating foods but find that I keep eating the same things like grains and cheese (having trouble figuring out what to eat for calcium). I know that can be a sign of "addiction" or trouble to find that I eat the same things. Sometimes I wonder whether that is why I'm so tired all the time. Please offer any insight. Thanks very much. Christine:)
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 6:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine K.P.S.,

The posting I did about my "Protien Power" based diet is under "Sharing Scientific Information": Brain Chemistry

Do a search on Protien Power.

Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 1:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found it. Thanks. I've seen that diet before but am more familiar with Dr. Atkins and the Zone diets. I suppose I may have to go to the bookstore to look further into Protein Power for more specifics. Did you experience any withdrawal symptoms from not eating those foods? The reason I'm asking is because I haven't had ANY grains today yet. I'm finding it very hard to refrain. Thank you for sharing. Christine
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 5:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine K.P.S.,

No, I did not experience any withdrawal symptoms from not eating those foods. I actually feel better and have more energy even though I'm still pretty much of a couch potato. I haven't lost any more weight than my intitial 22 lbs. drop, but because I'm not as active as I should be, I feel the diet is enabling me to maintain. My wife and I are planning on starting an excercise regimine and will be working the details out with my doctor before we begin. Wish us luck. :)
laurie M
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 8:39 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine K.P.S.

I too ate a lot of cheese. I love dairy. But it turns out that it was sabotaging me. It is naot that i can't eat dairy it is just the dairy that is locally available. i found some cheese in canada that i can eat. It was very expensive though. I suggest that you look for a small dairy near you that makes its own cheese or start makingit yourself without the horrible enzymes they use these days. I believe you said you can eat brown cow plain yogurt. That is the only dairy I can tolerate these days. I can make a cheese substitute by cooking yogurt, a little organic butter, an egg, and a spoonful of flour in a saucepan until it thickens and curdles a bit. It has good flavor especially if you ad some dill. I use it for lasagna and pizza. You can also make cream cheese out of yogurt without adding anything. Check out the cheesecake recipe in the snacks section. No cheese included. And the whole family loved it.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 1:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Christine K.P.S.: I eat a 'caveman' diet. I don't know what the official caveman diet is...mine is food I consider most cavemen could eat; that is, as natural as it comes. I do rotate my foods as well. I have been low on calcium but have been building up my body at the cellular level and will now work on the calcium. As you know, calcium needs to be a daily intake and foods, like spinach, while high in calcium, are poorly absorbed by the body. And milk, not all dairy such as cheese products, provides the most calcium per calories.

I also take estrogen which reduces my need for calcium a little. Then, I'm 60, so my calcium need goes back up.

For breakfasts I choose from the following, always rotating milk, eggs, juice, wheat. (Wheat is a new addition. I didn't eat wheat for one year and now am starting back). I use no corn derivatives if possible, never soy as I'm hypothyroid, but I do eat complex carbs as I'm hypoglycemic. I am also just back to a limited amount of yeast and a little bit of sugar. As you can see, I'm straying from my caveman diet after a year. No self-respecting caveman would have wheat or sugar or yeast.

Breakfast may include: eggs, meat, potatoes, juice, seafood or fresh fish, grain cereal with milk or rice milk, hot tea. I sometimes have dinner's leftovers since I know from the nighttime whether or not it was safe.

Lunch may include: (is the hardest) rice cakes or sesame/rice crackers with tuna or neat or nut butters, vegetable, fruit, salad plus milk or water. Now it may include a wheat tortilla or a piece of bread.

Dinner may include meat, seafood or fresh fish, potatoes, vegetable, salad, rice, plus milk and water with fruit for dessert.

Snacks: crackers, rice cakes, almonds and other nuts, sesame seeds and other seeds, raisins, vegetables, fruits, water.

If I have milk one day, I don't the next. Those days I concentrate on cauliflower, brussel sprouts, broccoli, pinto beans, sesame seeds and almonds as they have from fair to excellent Calcium absorption. Spinach is high in calcium but only 5% is abosrbed by the body. Other calcium sources that have excellent absorption and are the most efficient by calorie per serving are watercress, rutabaga, kale, mustard greens, bok choy, turnip breens, soy milk and tofu.

I quit taking an allergy multi-vitamin that provided 333mg daily of Calcium. I'm going back to it because of the calcium and other vitamins I really need. We hear, and I believe most of it, that taking vitamins is a waste of money but I need every bit of help I can get. I have lupus as well as this other 'stuff' and I need to work at the cellular level. CoQ10 helps a lot and lots of other alternatives including Reiki and, well, lots of other 'stuff'.

Again, caveman diet for me, was the most natural of foods possible. The veggies were raw when possible and I left off all seasonings. As I regain my strength I now use some salt, some pepper, some sugar.

And I feel great. That is, 90% of the time.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 1:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T,

Vitamin E, and fish oil (high in fatty fish such as salmon), are said to suppress inflammation:
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 4:19 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Tom,
Thank you for the info that you had no symptoms of withdrawal when you began the Protein Power eating plan. My husband bought the book and will follow it himself. He's done Atkins before. Given my background training, I just have a hard time with Atkins (even though I did try it once too to try to alleviate some of my carb addictions and allergies) because he cuts out so many fruits and vegetables and advocates vitamin use in their place.

Since I wrote you last, I had a terrible addictive type bout and craving for potato chips (just potatoes, oil, and salt). Even thought the package says "Absolutely No Preservativesruly there must be something on them. I can't tell how much I craved them. Well, yes, actually I can. On Thursday, I kept thinking about them and finally just put some in my mouth, chewed them, and spit them out--just to have the taste in my mouth. Later, I gave in completely and actually ate some. What a struggle. I truly have a problem. I was tired and agitated that night. My husband pulled them out of the cabinet intending to return them to the store so that maybe I could try organic ones like Deb S. suggested. Friday, I was fine. They were on the counter and I put them in a bag in the garage. Not one craving. Then Saturday, I brought them back into the house to return them to the store and I'm sneaking the bag like an alcoholic sneaks a drink (I can say this becuase my Grandmother was one). I didn't get very far with them. My husband ripped open the bags and dumped them in the sink and ran water over them to save me from eating them. How awful they smelled when wet and actually they never really taste that good. For the past two days, I've had mostly protein (meats, eggs) with veggies and/or fruit and nuts. I've felt pretty even. Still looking for something to crunch. Carrots, although I truly like them as a veggie, really don't quite have the same crunch. But, I imagine this too shall pass. One addictive substance at a time. (I mean preservatives, artificial colors, flavors, MSG, etc.) Gosh, I certainly have rambled on. I didn't mean to waste your time. I really intended this to be a short note to you. In anycase...

Best of luck to you and your wife as you begin your exercise regime. Before I became a stay-at-home Mom I did personal training and fitness consulting. I still keep up with my certifications though. I'd be happy to answer any general questions about exercise that you may have (if you'd have any)--gratis, of course, hee,hee. It'd be difficult to give you specifics without actually having met you. But, again, if I can, I'd be glad to help. Yours truly, Christine
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 4:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Laurie,
Thank you for reminding me of your cheesecake recipe. I meant to write it down when you first posted it. Then, when you mentioned it a few days ago, I couldn't find it until today. I've copied it and plan to try it sometime. I LOVE CHEESECAKE, hee, hee!!!
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 5:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Judy T.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write/type what your caveman eating plan looks like. Over the weekend, I began focusing on something similar. I took out the book which actually is written for children with allergies on the caveman diet. Yours is very similar. I have ALWAYS except for eggs eaten grains of some kind for breakfast. lunch, and dinner and snacks and dessert. I used to not be able to imagine eating a pork chop or chicken breast for breakfast. Now I'm starting to do just that with fruit. It's not easy making such a switch. I keep craving at least mentally the grains. I've recently also began using the previous night's leftovers for breakfast. I used to only eat them for another night's dinner days later, which I no longer do because of bacteria. Then I was able to eat them for the next night's dinner. Recently I was able to eat them for the next day's lunch. Now, I find it ok to eat them for breakfast the next morning. Something that I used to think was taboo. My how I'm changing.

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. "Talk" to you soon, Christine
Laurie M
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 7:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Christine K.P.S.
I'm glad you found the cheesecake recipe. It really hits the spot when you want to splurge. I made it for the whole family and it was a hit. It takes a bit of work but in the long run is much healthier than regular cheesecake and tastes just like the real thing:) :)
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 7:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, Laurie, you have to post the recipe here again. Everyone is now hungry for cheesecake!
I have made a cheesecake using fresh soft mozzarella cheese, lemon juice, rice milk, eggs, a little flour, sugar and vanilla. No recipe. Just pureed the ingredients and baked it. Not bad with sweetened fruit on top. But for those who cannot tolerate any milk products, this may not work. Our grocery store has just started carrying whole milk farmer's cheese. It says it has no preservatives or enzymes...just wondered if anyone has tried this cheese and how they did with it.
Laurie M
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 9:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok here it is again. This recipe does depend on brown cow yogurt. I couldn't get around that. The sour cream could probably be eliminated by making more"cheese" from the yogurt and using rice milk.

Hi everyone!
If you have been craving cheescake and haven't been able to indulge here is a recipe I just tested and it turnes out great. Keep in mind that I don't measure that much so these amounts are estimates. This only works if you can use brown cow yogurt and some Knudsens Whole sour cream with nothing added. no Cream cheese needed.

First take one container brown cow Plain Cream at the Top yogurt. Line a colander with a triple thickness of cheesecloth. Place yogurt in middle of cloth and tie the ends into a bag. hang bag from hook or faucet for about eight hours. Voila! Cream Cheese!!

For crust:
1 3/4 Cups crushed organic graham cracker crumbs
1/2 cup organic butter (no annato)Oil might work here. I have never tried it.
1/4 cup grated nuts ( organic unsulfured etc.)
Mix and pat into springform pan and up the sides a bit. Set aside

For filling:
Mix cream cheese from above with 1 cup sugar. I don't recommend honey unfortunately.
4 Tablespoons flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp vanilla
1 container knudsens sour cream
1 cup plain or vanilla yogurt(Brown Cow)
2 eggs
1 egg yolk.
Blend until creamy
Pour into Springform Pan and bake at 375 for 45 to 50 minutes. Chill for 4 hours. Enjoy

I don't recommend this very often but I can get away with this occasionally without any problem and I am pretty sensitive to dairy. the yogurt somehow works better for me. The homemade cream cheese works great as a spread or dilute it with rice milk and some sugar and whip it. Now it is whipped cream!

Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 10:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks again, Laurie! If people cannot find safe graham crackers, they can mix whole wheat flour and some sugar together (& a pinch of salt). Then crumble in some butter, and a little honey (opt.), and pat into the pan. Bake at 350 degrees for about 10 minutes. Then add any uncooked filling like the cheesecake mix, and bake again. This can be used for pudding or lemon meringue type pies, too. Yes, you can make a good pudding with egg yolks, sugar, salt, and either water mixed with lemon juice for lemon meringue pie, (in book) or rice milk or diluted whole organic milk and some cocoa for chocolate cream pie. Just beat together with some flour and sugar, the liquid, a few yolks, and cook just until it is thickened. I stir in a T. of butter and a little vanilla. Pour into a baked pie crust and chill. You can eat it like that, or with whipped cream, if you can find one that doesn't bother you, or make a meringue topping and bake.
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 6:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine K.P.S.,
Since I discovered fresh made French fries, I don't care about the potato chips I can't have any more. (I'm sure they all have AuxiGro, and I can't find organic potato chips where I live.) Just fry up organic potatoes, cut thin, in a safe oil, and put salt and "Old Bay" seasoning on them Delicious! I learned about "Old Bay" on this website and have no problem with it, and I am sensitive to EVERYTHING.
John Brodar
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 10:47 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This Topic "Helpful Remedies..." suddenly stops (on my computer ) on March 28.

I have tried "Refresh" to no avail I doing something wrong or not doing something I should?

I started taking zinc about four days ago ....I am feeling better today than I have for almost a year.
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 8:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What brand is it, John, and does it contain any fillers in the pill that might contain glutamate?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 7:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear NOMSGer Migrain sufferers,

I read an article in the DuPage County Business section about a local Wheaton, IL Pharmacist who has developed a product to cure migrains. It come in the form of a cream and migrain sufferers apply it to their navel. Sounds weird, but the reporter who was a migrain sufferer said it worked for her.

The Pharmacist has a website at:

and the article stated that the cream is registered with the FDA (whatever that means).

Just thought I'd pass the info along to those of you who still get migrains even with avoiding MSG.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 2:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I checked the site and it does look interesting. The developer feels that migraines are caused by hyper stimulation of neurons which constricts blood vessels in the brain...sound familiar? I guess it couldn't hurt to try it....has a money back guarantee. If anyone goes for it, please share your experience with us. :)
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 5:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Migrastop is also mentionered in the article below:
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 5:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or rather, "mentioned" in the article. It sounds like an unlikely cure, but acupuncture was once doubted and now many people swear by it.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 3:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If in doubt about a health claim, the site below sometimes has info:
Posted on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 3:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

May be worth looking up each of the ingredients in Migrastop before using it. For example, asafetida, one of the ingredients, is described at:

I have been using another herbal product --- plain arnica gel in very small amounts on my cheek bone where I my migraine sometimes settles. I found that it sometimes helps get me out of a bad cycle. If you try this, be sure not to get it anywhere near your eyes. (Arnica gel is great for muscle problems too.) Get the arnica without all the junk (e.g., perfume) in it from the health food store.
John Brodar
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 11:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just recently looked at

It seems to indicate that msg, sugar, aspertaine and many other food additives are ok.

The site's author is articulate, but I do not care for the message content. His message does not match my experience.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 4:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Thanks for alerting me to some of the web site host's dangerous views. Apparently he dismisses the legitimate along with the fake.

An example of host Barrett's own quackery:

A more sober view of aspartame:
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 4:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have recently started taking one benedryl tablet one hour before going out to eat and have had great success in reducing abdominal and respiratory discomfort that occurred within 20 min of eating a meal at almost any restaurant.
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 9:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

While at the local mall last week I stopped into a GNC health store.
While browsing around I saw they had some products that they promote for nuero health.(??)
Having tried so many other products I figured what the heck and will give these a try.

It was interesting to see a product they have called Migraplex which is suppose to stop migranes.
It has CoQ10, Magnesium, L-Taurine, Ginger and Feverfew(items claimed on this website to help)in one tablet.
It has helped me get rid of the local spot headaches and my tolerances seem to be up to MSG related items. It does appear to be helpfull!

The sleep formula also works well as you wake up very rested.

The product called Cognita seemed to cause a slight headache and now I am trying it with out the gel cap (tastes terrible), It is reinforced with the structural fatty acids DHA and EPA that make up a significant portion of gray matter in the brain.
Just pasasing this on as any bit of info I figured would help so here is the web site for those products.
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 8:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Are you still taking the Migraplex and if so, is it working? It looks very interesting. I recently added CoQ10 and Taurine to my daily supplements of Magnesium and B6 and it seems to work wonders. This new product would eliminate several extra pills.
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 8:12 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone here taken Cysteine? It seems to be a supplement that might help our MSG related problem.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 3:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I wouldn't take cysteine. In the article linked below (on another issue), Dr. Blaylock is quoted as saying that a form of cysteine is a potent neurotoxin like glutamate:
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 7:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy is right, Thats why we take taurine. The body can't metabolize cysteine properly to taurine, making us deficient in taurine.
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 10:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, Do you mind elaborating on the cysteine - taurine connection? Thanks.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 1:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Certain pairs of amino acids interfere with each other. Tryptophan and tyrosine are one pair, glutamate and cysteine are another. Unfortunately the body turns cysteine into taurine. I noticed about ten years ago that taurine deficiency had exactly the same symptoms as an MSG reaction. Racing heart, blurred vision, etc. I figured that if glutamate was interefering with cysteine metabolism, as most neuroscientific studies at that time showed it was, then bypassing the creation of taurine and simply eating the stuff would at least help. I went to the local health food store, bought myself a bottle of taurine, waited for my next MSG reaction, took the taurine, and found the best antidote for my worst symptoms. It appears to help some on this board as well.

I just had another thought. Cysteine and taurine are sulfur containing amino acids. Some on this board are sulfite sensitive. I'll do some hunting around on this one....
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 3:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I am sulfur sensitive to some drugs (not all) and as a result of finding you all, I just started CoQ10 and Taurine. WOW, what a difference. If taurine is sulfur based, it does not give me any problem.
Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 8:02 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I ordered B-6 from Beyond a Century and have been taking it for a few weeks but I am not sure of the proper dose. The label says to take 1/32 of a teaspoon. Does anyone know what the correct dose is? I don't want to take too much. Also I think I may try Q10 but saw it can cause headaches. If there are any migraine sufferers out there and have tried Q10, please let me know your reactions.
Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 2:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I have suffered from migraine headaches for years; only when I get a really hefty dose of MSG. I had been taking COQ10 for several months. Than when Tom said it helped with symptoms I increased from 30mg per day to 60 or 90. No problems and I find I can do the subway stairs without so much huffing and puffing. I live in a fifth floor walk up so that is a big plus.
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 3:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I take 300 mg daily of CoQ10. I don't get headaches anyway. I have tried twice to quit CoQ10 and found that it is what keeps me going and feeling good. I have begun Taurine again, 500 mg daily, but am not yet sure if it helps. I would actually feel ok taking up to 800 mg daily of CoQ10 based on reading lots of 'stuff'.
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 6:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy - What brand CoQ10 and taurine do you use?
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 1:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CoQ10: TwinLab Ultra CoQ10, 100 mg or with 200 mg from Solgar (both are in gel cap but do not bother me for some reason). Taurine: Solgar 500 mg free form (in gel cap). I take the CoQ10 with one tablespoon of refrigerated flax seed oil. I avoid excitotoxins very strictly...which means that I still get zapped once in a while, but not very often. I went without wheat for 9 months, still go easy on wheat products, without sugar for 9 months, still easy on fruits and maybe 1 tsp of sugar a week, do not drink fruit juices; still do not intake soy in any form or corn processes in foods, do fine now with dairy and eggs, do fine with meats but eat them in small portions, rotate food groups pretty well, do okay with most nuts and seeds. Finding that I am not as sulfite sensitive (do fine with grapes for example). When not careful I suffer hypoglycemia and am hypothyroid. I am working hard now to find ways to raise my temperature and finding ways to sweat; all this is related to excitotoxin sensitivity damage and an allergy to something in hair bleach/dyes. All in all I feel great; no heart palpitations, no arthritic-like problems, no flu symptoms, no fatigue or rage, and no sleep disturbances. It's a good life most of the time.
Am thinking of trying one or more of the following: colostrum or grape seed extract or anything else that has some basis for improving immune responses. I have a clinical diagnosis for auto immune disease. Would like to know how many of you have this clinical diagnosis. They wouldn't claim lupus or arthritis but then I have felt so good just from diet there is no impetus to place a name on this 'auto immune disease'. Do we all have auto immune disease, or do excitotoxins either initiate, exacerbate, or magnify other problems that we Tom, do you think you had the heart problems unrelated to msg and that msg triggered or aggravated your condition?
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 6:39 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T,

I must admit that I have not treated my body well over the last 50 years. I smoked for almost 30 years and drank quite heavily. So, yes, I would say that I had a pre-existing heart condition that was/is exacerbated by MSG.

When I was admitted to the hospital for Congestive Heart Failure, my doctors and I were convinced that my years of smoking & drinking had enlarged my heart and caused it to go into A-Fib. I followed my doctor's advice and quit drinking (I had already quit smoking 4 years earlier). But I remained in A-fib and even three attempts at cardioversion to "shock" my heart back to a normal rhythm failed. It wasn't until I made the MSG link and began abstaining that I was able to finally have periods of regular sinus rhythm.

So now the combination of my heart medications and the supplements especially including CoQ10 together with MSG abstinence has me in sinus rhythm 99% of the time. I feel great and tests have shown that my blood levels for cholesterol & Triglycerides have return to normal and my heart is no longer enlarged.

Have I reversed the damage of years of abuse and MSG consumption? I don't know -- it seems like it to me and I attribute it to my new diet & supplements, but others might just say that my lifestyle change of less abuse is what has me on the mend. But I know many CHF sufferers who have not embraced the MSG link to A-Fib and continue to get worse even though they have changed their "abusive" lifestyle.

With regard to your diagnosis of immune deficiency, could it be possible that this diagnosis was done during the period of your life before MSG abstinence? I would bet that I would have been diagnosed with an immune deficiency during the time prior to my CHF episode. I was so sick all the time and had a persistent cough and couldn't breathe. I would catch a cold at the drop of a hat and felt rotten all the time. I couldn't sleep through the night and was miserable to live with. My "quack" of a doctor at that time attributed all my symptoms to adverse reaction to high blood pressure medications and just kept on changing the medications. In retrospect, I think the MSG reactions wore my body down, sapped my energy levels and allowed me to be susceptible to all sorts of maladies.
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 6:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How does one have auto immune deficiency if they feel good most of the time? Was this diagnoises before you were feeling good and msg free?
Judy T
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 10:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blood tests show an AgE or I...(?) problem; which the doctors call an auto immune disease. Yes, the last tests were taken when I was feeling great. These results are what finally convinced the doctors it wasn't all in my head but that there was some clinical evidence of a problem. That's why the doctors (there were two separate ones involved) said they could not YET tell if this would eventually be diagnosed as lupus or an arthritis, or worse. Carol H. could help explain this probably, but this confuses the devil out of me. They both said as long as I was feeling good that there was really no point in continuing tests, but that when (not if) I began feeling poorly again to come in and they would pursue more avenues (one is an arthritis specialist, the other a gastro specialist). I do go in again in 4 months for more tests to see where the 'count' is. After the AEC meeting in Reno, I do have a endocrine specialist lined up. Somewhere along the line I guess I just assumed (a no-no) that we all had auto immune problems that had been clinically diagnosed, plus many other dilemmas such as a-fib, lung difficulties, adrenal problems, etc. That's why I also figured the CoQ10 was helping some of us; that the basic cell was being strengthened. Um. It's hard not readily understanding chemistry and the body. As much as I read I always feel like a frog in the swamp, just getting a few flies when there is so much around to gorge on. Thanks.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 2:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy T, it sounds like we have an awful lot in common. The wheat avoidance and rotation diet stuff is killing me. It is really really hard. Even when I feel like I am starting to get a handle on things, they diagnose me with a new food allergy again. I almost feel like this is a race against time. I want to find the key that unlocks the whole mystery before I run out of things to eat. They haven't mentioned auto-immune disease to me yet, but they do want me to keep a food diary. I think you mentioned IGE and IGG. I found a site that explains some more about it. Notice that cytokines are mentioned. They are mentioned in the Beyond Aspirin book as well.
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 9:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


What brand of Q10 do you take and do you take it in a gelcap also? I know I react to gelcaps and am Leary of taking one.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 12:04 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol H. and Judy T.: Well, I have joined you both. The conventional physicians gave up on me. Chronic high blood pressure, overweight, severe diarrhea,and cardiac arhythmia attributed to mitral valve prolapse.
NO medication helped me, and in fact, I was diagnosed as being allergic to almost every medicine there is.
Finally, about 2 months ago I found a naturopathic physician who has really helped me.

For the first time in more than 30 years I have very normal blood pressure! I no longer have asthma symptoms, no more acid reflux, no diarrhea, and most cardiac arhythmia.

This was brought about by a very weird diet that I am still adjusting to. I'll bring it with me to Reno. Found out that I am allergic to both wheat and gluten and probably have been all of my life. For the first time in many, many years, I am finally free of rashes too.

I truly believe that many of the foods that we were eating like potatoes and corn were treated with msg laden chemicals during the growing cycle. There is not much today that is safe for msg sensitive people to eat because msg is hidden or not disclosed.

Personally, rice based products have really worked for me. Also I try to eat only organically grown fruits and vegetables, even though this is not easy. And I do miss meat. Once per week I am allowed lamb and I wait for this treat. Mostly I eat fish, which has been a challenge to find in AZ, but thanks to Trader Joe's, I am managing.

The doc also tried acupuncture on me but alas, it had no effect. Only diet effects my health. We are the lucky ones after all. Thanks to overt symptoms, we can recognize what is making us ill. And with the help of this board, we can continue our quest to get healthy.
Judy T
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 6:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry: Yes, interesting that after all, we are the lucky ones. At least diet can help us if we can just figure out the riddle. I'm anxious to share notes with you in Reno and to see your diet and how it is helping.
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 11:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry, I agree with you 100% when you mentioned how you think most of the corn and potatoes (and wheat, too) is being treated. Farmers are part of a huge farming corporation now, and the name of the game is bigger and better yields at any cost...including using us as guinea pigs. This year, for the first time in years, we were unable to put in our garden. I can't tell you what a difference it has made. Even though I am buying lots of produce at the famers market, I suspect that I am reacting to some of the produce that I never did before, especially the potatoes and corn....and some of the melon for the first time. We will be mini-farmers next year! Sure miss my own veggies! :(
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 11:18 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, Gerry, please bring your diet. What do you eat for protein?
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 2:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would you please briefly go into the procedure the naturopathic doctor used to identify the foods you are sensitive to. I had partial testing done in England last month but there was no time to finish all the foods. So far I have been unable to find a doctor in the Houston area that can continue with the process. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. What kind of doctor exactly is it that helped you? There is just one naturopath listed on the internet in Houston, and he has literally been banned from practicing. I went to a doctor this week who is a member of ACAM (American College for the Advancement of Medicine), but she was not familiar with nutrition. They all have their areas of speciality. There is one that is a nutritionist that I will try next, I guess. I have also checked with the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. There are a few doctors listed that might be able to help from this organization. They are all very expensive, and I am trying to stay within my insurance provider list if I can. I am really glad you were able to get relief after all this time. My friend in England was the one who sent me to the naturopath. She had been suffering for nearly 40 years. Just learning she was allergic to wheat turned her life around immediately. She says it's a miracle. I am much better since learning about MSG, but I feel there is still room for improvement, and my diet is very strange and out of balance these days. The English nutritionist was able to add many foods to the list that I can eat, so I am getting a bit more variety now, especially since I can buy more organic foods here in America. Didn't see a single organic vegetable in England, except in London, and they didn't look very good. She did tell me, as a result of the testing, to avoid beef and tuna. Have a great time in Reno. Wish I could be there.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 6:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gerry, I'm very interested in hearing about your diet. I feel better since avoiding wheat, but am so tired of foraging every day. I did find a good book though - The Gluten Free Gourmet. I also realized I had to completely throw away everything I ever knew about baking with wheat. The dough looks and behaves completely different. I made pizza the other night. It looked like cake batter when it went in the oven. It came out like a delicious pie crust. Very, very weird.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, I'll bring a copy of my strange diet with me to Reno. And I will look for that book as it sounds like interesting reading. What kind of dough are you using? Mostly I'm avoiding everything but rice. I am able to eat sweet potatoes though. You are right about it being weird. And I am foraging, but whenever I stray, I either get hit with my msg rashes or in the case of wheat, bad indigestion. If I avoid gluten containing products, I don't get the acid reflux. But it is so very hard.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 4:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used 1/4 cup rice milk, 2 large eggs, 1/3 cup cornstarch, 2/3 cup brown rice flour, 1/4 teaspoon xanthan gum, 1 teaspoon salt, 1/4 cup Spectrum organic palm oil shortening. (I broke down and tried xanthan gum, even though I didn't want to. What can I say - I'm desperate :( ) Beat eggs and rice milk together, add the cornstarch, flour, xanthan gum, and salt. Mix in melted shortening. It will definitely stick to the pan, so grease the pan well. Spread into a greased 9 x 13 pan or on a greased cookie sheet. Put toppings on. Bake at 400 for 25 min. I used fresh basil, olive oil and garlic and made it like a focaccia. Be careful if you react to cornstarch. You also may want to cut down on the salt, I found it a little salty. I'd try it next time with pesto, black olives, and maybe some buffalo milk mozzarella.
Gerry Bush
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 10:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Carol. I'll give it a try although the xantham gum worries me.

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