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Battling the MSG Myth » Archive » Help! I Have a Question « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Suspicious Food Ingredientsshirley93 8-28-01  1:57 pm
SoyMEMorrisNJ69 9-22-01  7:00 am
Dolomite powder--is it safe?Deb A.11-17-00  8:59 am
FishMEMorrisNJ21 9-22-01  7:16 am
Medic Alert BraceletKaren Robles10 8-31-01  11:00 am
NEED RECIPE SUBSTITUTION!!!!!Evelyn H.15 8-31-01  9:34 am
Trouble finding milkGerry Bush12-19-00  8:41 pm
Fish SauceRoy Piwovar9-02-01  12:47 am
Fosamax for OsteoporosisCarol H14 4-21-01  8:19 am
Arthristis painAnonymous27 4-06-01  5:34 pm
GelatinCarol H44 3-16-01  2:23 pm
What caused this reaction?Anonymous17 10-22-01  7:49 am
What did I react to!?Donna B88 9-07-01  9:42 am
Low ThyroidMEMorrisNJ23 6-03-01  2:32 pm
How long?Deb A.18 2-07-01  3:33 pm
MicrowavingCarol H1-28-01  7:02 am
How Much MSG in 227 gms of Mrs Budd's Chicken Pie!?Mr.SourGrapes1-23-01  9:09 am
Bottled GarlicMEMorrisNJ1-23-01  6:00 pm
SweetenersRuth26 10-14-01  6:24 pm
Corn flour and corn mealDeb A.8-19-01  5:00 pm
MedicinesRoy Piwovar13 8-28-01  1:46 am
Oatmealshirley15 8-19-01  8:55 am
Sort of embarrasing questionChristine K.P.S.2-27-01  9:30 am
I love MSG!Jay13 9-01-01  8:26 pm
SproutsDeb A.3-13-01  9:25 am
What about sugar cane syrup?Deb A.3-14-01  7:42 am
Is there a safe multimineral out there?MEMorrisNJ25 10-25-01  5:51 pm
Dr. Bronner's soaps as shampooshirley10 8-21-01  8:14 am
CrawfishRoy Piwovar4-23-01  8:03 pm
MSG Indicators?Roy Piwovar11 5-15-01  7:46 pm
Itchy skin.Deb A.5-07-01  10:50 pm
Questions About ProductsDeb A.5-10-01  3:11 pm
Lou Gehrig's Disease ALS-SOS!Carol H10 5-18-01  2:59 pm
Casein?Roy Piwovar5-30-01  8:48 pm
Del monte fruit juice tetra packsAnonymous6-03-01  2:44 pm
VaccinationsCarole6-06-01  11:29 am
Ham or cream cheese?Anonymous6-06-01  6:59 pm
What brands of multivitamins or vitamins in general are safe to use?Deb S6-09-01  10:14 am
Any Feingolders?clarissa7-30-01  6:59 pm
How long can you keep certain foods in the refrigerator?Connie27 7-06-01  9:19 am
Jason's power smile toothpasteDeb A.6-28-01  9:32 am
MSG in different languages. Roy Piwovar17 10-29-01  8:42 pm
The Total Avoidance DietJudy T23 8-19-01  12:56 pm
MSG research paperMelissa7-10-01  8:27 am
Any safe seafood out there?Ruth7-09-01  3:18 pm
Please help my sonDeb A.7-30-01  4:12 pm
MSGAnonymous8-02-01  11:13 am
'Fresh' Foods?shirley46 8-20-01  3:25 pm
Instant soup and pure soy protein isolate powdershirley8-20-01  8:41 pm
Any great benefits being msg free.......Evelyn H.16 8-21-01  10:06 am
Sea saltshirley8-22-01  9:50 am
Carob powdershirley8-21-01  8:17 am
Nutritional yeastshirley8-21-01  11:15 am
MSG & Insulin ResponseCarol H8-23-01  5:47 pm
HemorrhoidDeb A.8-23-01  9:19 am
Unrefined sugarCarol H8-23-01  5:51 pm
TapiocaDeb A.8-23-01  3:06 pm
Barley grainshirley8-22-01  5:59 pm
TeaRuth8-26-01  3:37 pm
Haagdass ice creamDeb A.11 9-01-01  10:46 pm
PotatoesDeb A.8-27-01  9:22 pm
Sea saltCarol H9-02-01  6:14 am
AspartameRoy S. Piwovar8-29-01  9:55 am
PeriodShirley8-31-01  4:35 pm
Is topically applied lecithin safe?Wynn Carroll9-04-01  6:59 am
DetoxShirley9-01-01  11:26 pm
CoffeeAnonymous15 9-21-01  6:38 pm
ImprovementsMEMorrisNJ9-17-01  11:14 am
ChickenAnonymous29 10-21-01  6:14 pm
MSG/FMS/LupusLL11 10-11-01  7:37 pm
PorkDeb A.23 10-30-01  10:05 pm
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 12:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy or Joyce, I think, one of you mentioned that you had seen a naturepathic doctor, and that he warned that the test for your thyroid would not be accurate. Why is that? Is it because, MSG intake will constantly through off my thryroid and any testing? I'm having a problem. In the spring, I was taking 3/4 of a pill, and after my physical, he cut it to 1/2. Then I felt a bit sluggish by September, and was tested again, and he decreased it to 1/3. Now I am tired all the time, my nails are breaking, my skin is dry, I'm not sleeping well, and I'm, starting to gain weight. When I wake in the morning, my eyes are puffy and stay that way a long time. These things usually happen when I am not getting enough thyroxin, but the tests are confusing the issue. I also get indigestion when I need more of the hormone, I believe. Any ideas from anyone here?
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 6:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Help! I broke down and joined some friends at a local diner. I ordered only: 1/2 grapefruit (fresh but I saw they were precut in refrigerated display), 1 poached egg, 1 slice of dry toasted white bread dry. I can kick myself for giving in -- within 2 hours I was suffering for the next 12 hours or so! Any speculations what this was? Thanks.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some restaurants sprinkle "Fruit Fresh" on their cut up fruit, which contains sulfites and may also contain some glutamate containing fillers. Also, most commercial breads now contain soy products or soy flour, and most often l-cysteine and yeast nutrients. I'm so sorry you got sick, MEMorrisNJ!
Deb S
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 5:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

... plus the bread most likely had malted barley flour added to the white flour. Most white flours do contain malted barley flour. Next time you're at the market, pick up one of the cheap loaves of bread and read the ingredients. Scary!!!
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2000 - 7:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I called the owner of the diner who was very sympathetic to my plight. He assured me that they do not spray or dip the grapefruit so it must have been the white bread. I then went to the supermarket and read the ingredients on the white bread packages. Wow -- what garbage!! I'll stick to my Italian bread that is made from only flour, salt and yeast.

And few people would believe that the longer a restaurant menu, the more trouble I can get into. Out of the 10 page diner menu, there were probably only three things that I could possibly eat safely:

1. eggs providing they were not cooked on the same grill with other problem foods (e.g., bacon, premade home fries with "spices" added).

2. fresh fruit if it is not sprayed, and

3. a baked potato without the fixings.

Thanks Deb A and Deb S for responding!!!
Vicki K.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 6:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know if fructose is an acceptable sweetner? I found it at the store, it is suppose to be the natural sweetner, it comes in powder form and in some small individual packages.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 10:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It depends. I use powdered fructose all the time with no trouble at all. I use it in baked goods, in coffee, and on fruit. Some on this board have trouble with any corn derived products like processed fructose. Natural fructose is what is in fruit that makes it sweet. It is a much safer alternative to nutrasweet, or saccharin and it has a Glycemic Index (GI) of about 30 on a scale of 1-100. Table sugar has a GI of more than twice that. (Glycemic Index is a measure of how quickly a food makes the blood sugar rise and prompts the body to make insulin.) A high GI will make you surge and crash. You want to eat foods with as low of a glycemic index as possible. Because of its very low GI (Glycemic Index), diabetics recommend fructose as a sweetener instead of sugar. If, like Deb A, you are extremely sensitive to corn-derived fructose, simply use fruit juice to sweeten things instead of the powdered stuff. You'll get more nutients too. If you tolerate powdered fructose, be aware that high fructose corn syrup is NOT the same as pure crystalline fructose. Crystalline fructose has a GI of 30, High Fructose corn syrup has a GI of 65, nearly that of straight table sugar (sucrose). Bad.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 - 12:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well said, Carol. I was told by Jack Samuels that most of the fructose in commercial goods is derived from corn hydrolysis. But some companies still manufacture it from fruits. The internet might be a good way to track down the latter. I use honey and cane sugar, raw cane sugar, or Sucanat.
I can get by with a little C & H brown sugar, but beware of brown sugar in the bulk bins. They contain some interesting and questionable ingredients sometimes. Read, read, read.
Gaëlle Marty
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 5:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Help ! I live in Taiwan now and since then I have been suffering from many problems that are linked to MSG for sure. I found your e-mail site very helpful but actually I can't buy the safe foods you advise here because they are quite scarce here and I don't have a kitchen anyway. So my question is: do you think that bean curd (doufu) from the supermarket is safe ? Indeed, eating out is not possible because they spread MSG everywhere and when you start reading labels, you realize practically everything contain MSG. As a result some and my friends and I have ended up drinking milk, papaya milk or other beverages and eating fruits but that's not the best solution in the long run. Thanks a lot.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 7:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello! Are you able to find fresh seafood and vegetables at the markets there? You are on the right track by eating fresh fruits. Beans, particularly soybeans, are high in natural glutamate. When the milk is fermented or cultured, some free glutamate, the harmful component of MSG is created. But the amount will vary and you may be able to tolerate certain products more than others. However, a recent study in Hawaii demonstrated that use of soy products like tofu caused diminished brain capaciy in the subjects tested. Egg noodles are abundant there, and so is rice. Buy fresh ginger and chop and add to stir fries instead of soy sauce, and experiment with other vegetables and fresh herbs and spices. Red pepper flakes and lemon juice jazz up stir fries, too. Fresh chicken and fish are usually available I would hope.
Gaëlle M
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 7:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks so much for your tips. From now on, I won't buy anything from small shops or pedlars since even the Taiwanese regard the food they sell as loaded with MSG. I will try your recipes. Nearly all my Taiwanese friends told me the same thing: we cook at home and we seldom eat out so we only eat a little bit of MSG (and a small amount is not harmful). I doubt they only eat a small amount of it though.... If anyone is interested, I give you here the name of egg noodles (as you advised) which are for sure free from MSG: "Six Fortune" (an orange color pack). Indeed I prefer buying things which are clearly labelled "no MSG" because some Taiwanese lists of ingredients are not clear (they write: spices for example or condiments or flavorings). I also know the name of a restaurant not using MSG (it's written on the bill if someone wants to know). Thanks for your help (I would not have thought about red pepper or lemon juice alone).
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 6:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I need Carol H.'s web site address!
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 8:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2000 - 8:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you very much, Deb S.! I'm always updating my book, and want to include Carol's website address with the other ones already there.
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2000 - 5:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is in response to the request from Anonymous about thyroid testing.

My internist didn't want to do thyroid testing because he said the results usually come back in the normal range.

I've since gone to both a naturopath and a holistic MD, both of which agree the tests are less than reliable (holistic MD said the 'average' results are based on testing adolescent boys - no testing results based on women).

I've started treatment (Armour) based on a chemical analysis showing very low calcium, magnesium and other minerals and a very low body temperature (never above 97 degrees). Both of the drs I currently see believe that body temperature (along with other indicators they use) guide them to deciding if and how much thyroid medicine is needed. Increase in dose so far has been done in 15mg increments every 6 wks.

Luckily, I found a compounding pharmacy that provides pure Armour in a gel cap that I can open and mix with a little yogert - no binders/fillers!

My naturopath gave me a pretty good website to help with understanding hypo-thyroidism:

My naturopath indicated that low body temperature causes less efficient metabolism, and both drs believe once I have a healthier metabolism, MSG and other food sentitivies will be less dramatic. Time will tell...right now I avoid it wherever possible, that seems to be the best approach for me.

Hope everyone has a safe and MSG-free Thanksgiving!
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 9:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Connie,
Thanks for posting the info about thyroid meds. I take Synthroid and wondered your reason for taking the Armour product. Was this the doctor's idea? Just curious. I realize there are no fillers to deal with, but my doctor told me the natural hormones from animals aren't as effective. My thyroid tests keep coming out differently, even when the tests have been only 3 or 5 months apart. My doctor had me on 1/3 a tablet this spring, 3/4 the year before, and now on 1/2. I can only wonder about what you have just shared. I'm going to send him a copy of what you have posted, and get his reaction. I do know that my temperature is always a bit low. Please keep us posted. Also, would you please e mail me with the name of the compounding pharmacy (city, state) that you were able to find. I might try to get a prescription filled. What form of supplements will you try, to get the minerals you need?
e mail - {}. Thanks again for filling us in. Happy Thanksgiving!
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 1:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Because Synthroid seemed to be the most widely used by members of this board, I'd asked my doctor for it to avoid an MSG reaction. She was pretty adamant about trying Armour first because it has T3, which Synthroid does not. Sometimes the body has an inability to convert T4 to T3, so that was why she insisted that I start with the natural rather than synthetic form. (Also, while she called it Armour in her office, the Rx is for "Thyroid" per the bottle label, i.e. pure thyroid)

Here's more detailed info on natural thyroid medication:

There's a very active discussion group on this website you might want to visit. Also, I see there's other valuable tips, such as taking your thyroid medicine at the same time everyday, an hour before breakfast, and 4 hours before any calcium supplement. It mentions the key is consistency, otherwise you may have some unexplained fluctuations in your TSH level.

About compounding pharmacies, I'm sure you can find one closer to your home, I live in Md! They are usually independent drug stores, or you may find one associated with your local hospital. Someone (Roy?) previously posted a webpage that searched for compounding pharmacies by state. I wasn't able to locate it, but Yahoo found a number of these pharmacies in WA, mostly Seattle.

Good luck!
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 10:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Connie! I just did a search and found two compounding pharmacies in Seattle. I plan to call my doctor and see if he will work something out with them. The thyroid site was very interesting. I'm getting sleepy or I would have stayed there longer. Will check it out some more later.
There's lots of good info that I can share with my doctor. Is the thyroid med in a powder form? I think you mentioned that you can take it with applesauce. How are you able to measure it?
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2000 - 7:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb,

Compounding pharmacies work just like a regular pharmacy...just take (or have your dr. call) the Rx in to them. The difference is that they can customize it's preparation. Mine also will mail the finished Rx to my house. FYI - because of the labor/customization, it does cost more, and my pharmacy isn't participating with my insurance program, so I spend maybe $10 or so more per Rx. Worth it, in my opinion.

My thyroid medicine is pure (no binders/fillers), and powdered. He puts it in a gel cap that's easy to open and sprinkle on applesauce or yogert...get the exact dosage that way.

They also prepare my ERT (estradiol and estradal) the same way. My dr. also requested a progesterone cream that can only be filled at a compounding phamracy. There are no side effects and I've read some reports that believe it's more effective against osteoporosis than estrogen. This seems important for me, knowing I'm low in calcium, as are many people with hypo-thyroids.

My next step is to talk to them about vitamins, this may be a good way to find a calcium/mag supplement I can take, since my pharmacy also specialize in homeopathic remedies. You may want to add this to you list of "qualifications" when selecting your's in Seattle.

So far, I've had a 4 day reaction to a single dose of 2 cal/mag preps. One contained calcium in a citric acid base (the company swore it wasn't made with corn or beets), and the other was made with calcium citrate. Currently trying one made with calcium carbonate, but it has some other ingredients, so I'm waiting to see how I do long term before I recommend it.

And..I'm pleased to report no major MSG reactions yesterday! Cooked a "natural" turkey (Purdue brand), passed on the stuffing and gravy, made fresh cranberry sauce and indulged in two (2) pieces of my sister-in-law's pumpkin pie (did notice a minor reaction after the 2nd piece, probably from the evaporated milk - but she makes such a good pie - it was worth it!)

Hope all enjoyed their Thanksgiving holiday!
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2000 - 8:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Connie! I sure do appreciate all this important information that you are sharing with me and vistors who have hypothyroids. I've also been concerned about the effectiveness of my HRT, and have wanted to try something else. This gives me some new options. I can't thank you enough. Please let me know if you have success with vitamins or calcium. I know what you mean about those calcium pills. I think I tried 7 different ones and reacted like you did.
We had a "safe" Thanksgiving here, too. Of course, I basically brought replicas of the traditional dishes to share with family to be sure we were able to eat. I even roasted our own additive free turkey, a fresh Foster Farms brand, and brought some of the meat all cut up for the sensitive members of the family. We watched as most of the others became very drowsy and blamed it totally on the trytophan in the turkey. But those who ate my turkey never got anything near their state. Of course, we refrain from telling them that it's the other stuff in their Butterball that's really the falls on deaf ears most of the time. I made a pecan and a pumpkin pie. I've learned that pie made from fresh roasted butternut squash is as good, if not better than pumpkin.
Oh, by the way, I'm interested in learning more about that progesterone cream so that I can ask my doctor to prescribe it for me. Does it go by a specific name or is it some special compound that he formulated? Thanks again!
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2000 - 10:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


The pharmacy told me that 2% progesterone cream can be purchased without a Rx, but only at a compounding pharmacy. Instructions are to rub a small amount on a hair-free patch of skin, and to vary the site.

The ingredients in mine are: Polysorbate 80, Vitamin E oil, Dermabase urea and distilled water.

Here's a book that she recommended to read:
Hormone replacement therapy, yes or no? : how to make an informed decision about estrogen, progesterone & other strategies for dealing with PMS, menopause & osteoporosis by Betty Kamen (Call number 618.175 K 1997)
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 6:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Fellow NOMSGers,

I have a question. Recently my wife has developed an itching red rash on the back of her head just above the neck. She is trying to blame it on a botched bleach job, but that was 4 months ago. She has also recently developed a tingling sensation in her left arm & shoulder and numbness in her left hand fingers. She has had her heart checked out and that is fine. Since she is left handed, she has attributed this to a pulled muscle.

These two reactions may be totally unrelated, but she does consume a large amount of diet Pepsi even though I constantly warn her of the danger of Aspartame.

Any thoughts?
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 9:24 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think it's a shame that your wife is so far in denial, and that she disregards what you've been telling her about aspartame. The least she could do, if only to humor you, is to give up the Diet Pepsi (and all similar products) for two weeks, and see if her symptoms improve. If they do, she will probably say it's coincidence, but when the symptoms return after she resumes her Diet Pepsi habit, it may cause her to think again.

For some reason, I've noticed that the sensations you describe in the shoulder, arm and hand are always more pronounced (or only present) on the left side. I've even had tendonitis diagnosed in my left wrist (back when I was clueless and consumed many aspartame products), even though I am right handed and had done nothing to injure myself. One doctor suspected arthritis, but the x-ray was normal. It came and went for over a year, but has not returned since I made the aspartame/MSG connection a year and a half ago.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 11:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ditto, with my symptoms due to aspartame. I would comsume diet doke just to keep me going,(for the caffeine) not realizing that it was the very thing causing me so much fatigue. It took me two weeks to get through the withdrawal symtoms of fatigue and cravings, but when I did, I felt terrific. I would have the tingling in my shoulder and arm, and woke up with hand numbness all the time. I would get a dull pain in the back of my neck and red spots on my neck and face. My heart would race sometimes, too. They checked my heart, and as usual, it was fine. Of course, aspartame is an excitatory neurotransmitter just like MSG. I used to be tested for arthritis and diagnosed with tendonitis all the time. That was years ago. I'm older and one would think at the right age to be feeling these conditions now, but I don't have a single symptom, as long as I avoid you know what!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 6:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO!!!!!!!!!! Everything that both Deb S. and Deb A. say is EXACTLY what I experience when I consume aspartame containing products.....and I get the horrible rash on the BACK OF MY NECK!!!!!
Your wife and I have the same reaction. I thought that I was the only one to get the neck rashes from aspartame. Amazing!
Please give your wife my e-mail address and I will try to help her understand what she is going through. I swear I never imagined that aspartame was causing all those symptoms. Until today, when I read your message I had NEVER connected the rash on the back of my neck to aspartame. Since I stopped consuming it 9 months ago, I have NEVER had the rash again.
Karen Couturier
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 6:02 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For use in a breadmaker I'm looking for bread flour that is unbleached and unenriched. If bread flour is organic is it okay that it be enriched or that it contain malted barley flour?
For other baking I use a flour that is unbleached and unenriched. An employee at the health food store told me that eating unenriched flour is eating totally empty calories. Is this so?
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 8:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use a mixture of half or 1/3 Gold Medal organic white flour, and the rest hard white winter wheat that we grind ourselves for bread. I also purchase bulk soft whole wheat flour for some of my baking of cookies, cakes, cookies, and biscuits. Some highly sensitive people may react to the vitamin mixture added to enriched flour if it contains glutmate or substances that they are sensitive to. Malted barley contains some free glutamate. Some can handle the amount, others cannot. It also depends on the amount of bread you consume. Plain yeast itself, even the safest brand, will contain about 7 to 11% free glutamate, by its very nature. I try not to eat much bread for this reason, and actually do better with quick breads, such as biscuits for my sandwiches. Some people make waffles, freeze a batch, and use those for sandwiches. As for the nutritional quality of unenriched white flour, which is difficult to find, many doctors would argue that the body does not utilize factory produced vitamins very well anyway. If, in addition to plain white flour, you are eating whole wheat flour and other whole grains, such as brown rice, you will be getting vitamins and minerals in their more absorable and natural state. I also use brown rice flour in combination with wheat flour, but not in yeast breads, since it is low in gluten. I made rye bread (an experiment), using 4 1/2 cups of water, 1/2 T. of yeast, and 2 t. of baking powder, salt , sugar( about 3 or 4 T.), 1 T. caraway seeds, 2 t. of cocoa, 2 T. oil, and a ratio of 1/3 rye flour, and 2/3 our ground hard white wheat flour(enough to make a soft dough). I mixed the baking powder in a T. of warm water and added it after it had been kneaded and then mixed it in until the dough was smooth again. You could use part regular whole wheat and part organic white flour instead of the hard white whole wheat. It was surprisingly good. Hope I'm correct on those amounts. I do tend to experiment quite a bit.
Candy Berry
Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 6:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi there, everyone. I've been reading the MSG postings on & off for about a month now & must say that I was very pleased to find the information I have. It even feels like I know some of you! I am extremely MSG intolerant (to the point of anaphylactic shock twice - scary) but didn't realise how many people are and more importantly WHY!!! I've learnt a lot. I'd like to tell my story, one day, but am not sure which category/ies to use. Symptoms/how did I make the connection or whatever. It just seems that what I have to say covers a few different areas. Will have to consider what I need to say.

My question is: I know MSG = 621 but what are the other 600> numbers? I steer clear of them but would like to be informed. Thanks.

I am in Australia, & Dick Smith has started up his own Australian owned & produced products. I'm going to email him with the anti-MSG website addresses.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2000 - 11:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Candy! We have received many orders for our book from "down under". Apparently, Aussies are getting too much MSG added to their processed foods, too. Unfortunately, you have suffered severely because of this toxic substance. We are looking forward to hearing your story about how you made the MSG connection and what your symptoms are. You can certainly enter your story at either topic. It will help others searching for their own answers about their health problems. Perhaps people are more likely to search for information under the "symptoms" heading. I'm not familiar enough with the glutamate number given to foods, but some others who visit here, hopefully, are. So glad you found our site and board!
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 9:02 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hadn't eatin all day and I was hungry. I gobbled some delicious Mrs Budd's least two servings ( 454 grams ) I developed a mild headache soon after that lasted a few hours.

How much msg did I consume.

And how many brain cells did I destroy?
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 9:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hadn't eaten all day and I was hungry. I gobbled some delicious Mrs Budd's least two servings ( 454 grams ) I developed a mild headache soon after that lasted a few hours.

How much msg did I consume.

And how many brain cells did I destroy?
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 9:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since the FDA sets no limit on the amount of MSG that can be added to food products, there's no way of knowing just how much you consumed, but your head sure did. Do you know what the list of ingredients are? If you do, and post them here, we can get a better idea of how much MSG you really got!
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 4:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mr. SourGrapes,

You could call the company and ask them what's in their product (phone and fax numbers are at their web site below), but it's my experience that pot pies have enough MSG in them to pin me to the floor to avoid passing out if I lift my head. Digging the offending box out of the trash may not be enough, as I've had that reaction without it being revealed on the label (but the company knows).

Good luck and keep some safe food handy so that in the future you won't be tempted to try something tasty that you'll pay dearly for soon after you've finished it.
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 12:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am having trouble finding cosmetics and toiletries that don't contain things that bother me. Things like wheat and silk protein, and citric acid and lecithin are in EVERYTHING! Any suggestions? Even some soap bothers me, and I keep trying new deodorants, too. I'm even suspicious of my makeup. There are so many chemicals listed, it's scary. Is there a safe hairspray someone knows of or mascara? One lipstick I used to love, began adding lecithin. I didn't make the connection for a long time, until I read the new label. I had chapped lips for weeks until I tossed it out. Why don't we complain to the companies? Picket or boycott or something? I was able to tolerate most everything until I turned 30 and now the smallest amount of MSG makes me itchy, dizzy and headachy. I'm sick of it!
Deb S
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 12:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous - I've been having the same problems. I also have problems with most fragrances. I have been using one brand of hairspray, Salon Selectives (by Helene Curtis), for years that I can tolerate. (One sneeze right after I spray it, then I'm fine.) They recently completely redesigned the label and I was lost trying to find something else to use, until I discovered it was now in a silver can. I use the one called "hold tight." The deodorant I finally found that works and doesn't cause any irritation is Kiss My Face Liquid Rock roll-on, fragrance free. The only soap I use now is Dr. Bronner's Aloe Vera Baby Mild bar soap. For shampoo I use Tom's of Main Aloe & Almond - it does have citric acid but it doesn't bother me. The only conditioner have found without hydrolyzed protein is Stonybrook Botanicals Unscented oil-free extra body conditioner (white & pink bottle). The choices are few and far between, that's for sure.

Most of the newer makeup products coming out have hydrolyzed protein in some form and lecithin (added for the "natural" and "nourishing" promotional appeal), but the ones that have been around for years are less likely to. Of course they're all full of questionable chemicals so we proceed at our own risk, but I for one am not confident enough to let the world see me without my makeup "mask."
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 2:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aloe Vera Gel works fine for me in place of hair mousse. I am seeking a face cream that helps slough off the old skin like hydroxy lotion does --- seems to help wrinkles and tone. Is hydroxy lotion is safe? Any further recommendations out there re skin care for us older folks who need all the moisturizer we can get? (Yes, I drink lots of water.)
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 4:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, I have the same problem finding some "safer" products. Sometimes I will use some product for years and then there's a formula change and I react. Most recently I have used Pantene shampoo for color treated, since the ones formulated for treated hair is milder. This doesn't have citric acid, but who knows what the other chemicals do! I just bought L'Oreal Vive shampoo for color treated hair which is relatively new. I will try it tomorrow. I have used Aloe gel for mousse, but do try to find one with few fillers. For soap, I use glycerin and Dove without fragrance or additives for sensitive skin, but I wonder if it causes some itching. I love the Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap. I use Suave's powder scent deodorant and one I buy that the Mennonites make here. Love their olive oil soaps, too! Look for these products at farmer's markets and fairs. I have been using Maybelline mascara, (green top)and am beginning to try a new line by Rimmel (Walmart has it). There is a pamphlet by the display with all ingredients listed. So far, so good. The skin cream is a tough one. I rotate Cetaphil, SPC15 daily facial moisturizer, Neutrogena Moisture, sheer tint and SPC15, and Simple, the cheapest face lotion I have ever found at the 99 Cent store. Yes, it's 99 cents and is from England, and has no fragrance or coloring. I use White Rain Herbs and Blossoms pump spray "chamomile" hair spray, but I think I will try the product that Deb S. uses. I like this because it is light and inexpensive, but I suspect it causes itching. Hope we've helped, Anon.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 10:56 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use plain vaseline (petroleum jelly) for face, hands, feet. It's a nighttime deal or you'll be shiny! I wonder how Noxzema is. I don't use it.
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 1:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been having just terrible trouble with my
lips since last summer. Burning and itching.
I've tried everything and I'm now trying the
vaseline. I was ready to go to a skin doctor
until I read your posts. I thought about trying
aloe vera gel and also vitamin "E" oil. This is
so exasperating. It is hard enough to read
every label when grocery shopping. Instead of
getting upset I guess I should be thankful that
I possibly found another answer. Now to find
a lipstick that agrees with my now sensitive lips.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 4:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use Almay lipstick..not the kind that lasts all day and comes in long narrow wands. They usually contain lecithin or hydrodrolyzed protein of some kind. The one I use comes in a silver/metal container. Most of the time I use a lip balm I find at the health store called Lip Shtick, and contains corn oil, beeswax, and natural flavor, which is a natural oil (lemon, I think).
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 9:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know if there has been recent media coverage of MSG recently? We are getting many orders for books via the Net from back east this week. Usually when that happens, there has been some revealing TV or radio program about MSG. Just wondering if any of you caught some such show.
Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I recently read an article stating that I should throw out my crock pot. The reason given was MSG, or more specifically, glutamate which is produced by the hydrolysis of protein. My questions are these:

Is glutamate a need for concern? As much as MSG?

If I do not eat the liquid (stock/stew/broth) from the crock pot, but only the meat, will the meat itself contain more glutamate than if I boiled it?

I moved to crock-pot-cooking when I read that exposing fats to air, as in broiling, grilling and baking, produces carcinogens (burning the meat also produces carcinogens). Would boiling be a better cooking methodology?

In general is the gelatin produced by boiling or crock-potting meat high in glutamate? MSG?

Thank you.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are correct about crockpot cooking. Hydrolysis consists of applying heat and moisture over a period of time to a substance. That is how hydrolyzed vegetable protein is produced. (soy and wheat are used to make this meat substitute)which has a high percentage of glutamate.
Yes, glutamate created in this way from any protein food is to be concerned about. Glutamate IS the harmful component of MSG or monosodium GLUTAMATE. Boiling meat will do the same thing, since water and heat and protein are involved. I fond that I can simmer chicken JUST until it is cooked to make a stock and cooked meat for chicken dishes, but it is really better to saute the meat in a little oil, or bake it in as little liquid as possible for the lest amount of time that will cook it thoroughly. The same goes for beef and other protein foods. I often use ground round and chicken breasts that I slice thinner, to cut the cooking time. Gelatin is hydrolyzed bones, tendons, and other animal "waste" and is comprised of a high percentage of glutamate, or more correctly, free glutamic acid. These are very important questions you have asked and I hope the answers help you and others who are just making the MSG connection.
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 8:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Help please! I had the worst reaction I have ever around 1-2 hours after having 3 Tree of Life's Wheat Free Cookies with the following ingredients: peanut butter, organic rice flour, honey, expeller pressed cannola oil, nonfat milk powder, egg whites, baking soda and sea salt. I'd like to know which of these ingredients may be trouble for us NoMSGers. It can't be the peanuts -- they never bother me. (What a downer after being reaction free for a long time by avoiding processed foods! Another lesson --- do not stray off a diet that is working when you are feeling great.)
Deb S
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 9:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nonfat milk powder. Hands down the worst thing on that list. Milk powder ~ milk solids: same thing. You should do a search for "solids" and then one for milk, and will see that many of us have problems with any form of milk except for organic whole milk, due to the added milk solids.
Deb S
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 9:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P.S.: I'm sorry to hear of your suffering. I recently had a 5-day episode myself. It seems like when I'm doing really well for awhile I start to feel invincible and am more apt to take foolish chances.
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MEMorrisNJ: So sorry. I can do NO milk powder, milk chocolate, any dried and/or processed milk product...although straight whole organic milk is good once or twice a week in modest 1/4C amounts on cereal or to sip.
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 11:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For MEMorris: What type of reaction did you have?
Tom fernstrom
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 12:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Might be the peanuts. My wife just bought some Evon brand freeze dried peanuts in a jar. It boldly states that MSG is added as a flavor enhancer (I swear my wife is out to get me sometimes). But I wonder if nuts that are flavored with MSG may not in fact be added to various products and as an sub ingredient don't have to be labeled on that secondary product as such.

A sadder point is that when I asked my wife what we should do with the peanuts, she said that our neice who is coming over on the weekend and loves nuts would eat them. I said, "Are you crazy? You're going to give something that kills brain cells to your 5 year old neice." She just can't understand that this MSG thing is something that affects everybody -- not just me. In fact she still hasn't given up the Aspartame laden Diet Pepsi and she is still suffering from rashes and numbness in her left arm and now her left leg at times.

Sometimes we just can't get through to people no matter how close they are to the issue. No wonder it is so hard to convince strangers.
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 2:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sad but true, Tom. Sometimes the closer they are, the more difficult it is to convince them. Perhaps after years of seeing us struggle and trying this diet or that medication, they think avoiding MSG is just one more "phase" we are going through. And I'm convinced that diet Pepsi and Coke are so addicting, that people would rather die than give it up...and some are, quite literally. My brother-in-law has "pseudo" heart attacks, terrible anxiety attacks, and severe stomach problems. He lives on Diet Coke and refuses to give it up. Actually, he has for awhile and feels great, and then goes back to it.
MEMor....I can't do dry milk solids, or most peanuts and peanut butters. Many are treated with sulfites, too, to prevent rancidity. There are organic peanut butters, but haven't been brave better with almonds and almond butter. Hope you feel better soon!
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 5:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What kills me is that I KNOW not to eat stuff with milk solids and so on. I am just so cocky when I am feeling well. Thanks for everyone's feedback!

Anon - You asked what my reactions were like. Reminded me of the two times I ended up in the hospital (where they were useless) -- once from soy sauce and a second time when my "plain" steak was laced with MSG. Starts off w/sudden apprehension (good warning sign to get someone to stay by me), then followed by griping stomach pains, blood pressure seems to drop, hands tingle, going in and out of consciousness and finally, having to go with the offending food leaving last in a mass. Finally, I get the chills, my teeth hurt and I go into a fitful sleep. My intestinal area feels inflamed and it will be several days before I feel myself again. Ugh!
Gerry Bush
Posted on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, MEMorris, you have described my msg reaction very well. And I also get rashes everywhere. My bet is the milk solids. But Tom also has a point. I myself don't trust peanuts. I seem to remember a discussion on the old NoMSG board where peanuts were being treated with msg to make the salt adhere to the peanut better! Can you imagine. Please feel better. We all know how you must feel. And don't berate yourself. You (we) should be able to eat without suffering. What a sad state our society is in.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 1:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Maybe you should print out and show this linked article to your wife (unfortunately the author, from another country, thinks that MSG is banned in the U.S. - I wish it were so).
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 10:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks again for the great link, Tom. I just e mailed them with facts about the use of MSG in this country. It would be great if more of us would do the same. Never know what it could start. I've been told that it's easier to get papers to report the truth about MSG is countries outside the U.S. Just click on the site Tom just posted and then click on the "E-mail" box.
Deb A.
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 10:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom, what is the e mail address for the FDA? Perhaps we could all just flood them with our complaints and just keep doing it as an ongoing thing. We could do the same with other targets...say a new one each month.????
Judy T
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 12:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, Your collection of links is prolific! I'm looking for a site on celiac spru and should have little trouble, however, if you have one in your files could you post it for me? Thank you. I'm amazed at your resources.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 4:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Here are a couple:
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 5:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Judy - Go to this site and use the search feature to look up celiac sprue:
Be sure to unclick the box for "IBS Search Other than Bulletin Board". The Bulletin Board is loaded with discussions on this topic.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 8:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb A.,

You can contact the FDA from the web page below:
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 11:03 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy and MeMorris: Thanks. Spent the a.m. reading and printing. This is the perfect info I need to prepare for some tests this week...and your sites were better than the ones I got through a search yesterday. Thank you again.
Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks again, Roy.
Joyce T.
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 10:19 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Special meal requests on airlines provide kosher, seafood-only, fruit-only, bland, low-salt, low-calorie, low-cholestrol, and lactose free meals. Only one category may be requested. What should I request? Have asked for fruit, but with grapes and apples suspect I don't know what to do. Also, do you still offer foreign language translations of the hidden MSG sources?
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 11:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The most successful menu choice is probably the low salt one. I used to travel quite a bit, and that is what I would get. Most processed salty foods are the major sources of MSG in the diet. It was funny, often other flyers would look jealously at my real food and wonder why I was so special.
Joyce T.
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 11:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks,Carol, will try that. also, I was trying to find latest info on Auxigro on this site and looked for quite awhile and couldn't find it. Where should I look?
Deb S
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 1:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Probably the best source of info on AuxiGro is at

Direct links:
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 8:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard that anti-perspirant/deoderants that contain aluminum can cause breast cancer, does anyone have any info. on this subject, is it safe to use if I'm sensitive to msg. I tried using just deoderant, but it doesn't work as well. Thanks for the input.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 3:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The aluminum-containing anti-perspirant theory doesn't seem to be backed up by any evidence of causing cancer, per the web site below:
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 1:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since aluminum has been linked to Alzimer's, do you suppose it's safe to use deoderant with aluminum in it. I don't know if the aluminum in the deoderant would cross the blood brain barrier like msg does. Maybe I sound paranoid, but I'm only 37 and feel terrible most of the time, ready to feel better, and want to be around to enjoy my grandkids, and help them stay away from poision, by the time I have grandkids they will have to grow and raise everything themselves to come as close to safe as they possibly can!:(
Deb A.
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 10:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I use a deodorant that is made by the Mennonites who sell it at our farmer's market. It is filled with wonderful essential oils and safe emollients. Tom's of Maine also makes a similar deodorant. I use mine most days, and on days that I am going to social events or am wearing certain clothes, I use an anti-perspirant. If our blood brain barriers are already compromised, I try to minimize the amount of potentially harmful substances from entering my blood stream in the first place. When Alzheimer victims die and their brain are examined, a large amount of aluminum is usually found in the destroyed plaque. That doesn't mean that aluminum is the cause of Alzheimer's. It just means that it crossed the BBB. I just feel good about not adding more metals to my brain, whether that is crucial or not.
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 9:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I need some ideas and hope someone out there can help. We will be traveling to England in mid March. Because it's illegal to bring food products across the Atlantic, I'm wondering what brand names, etc., might be safe to eat in the U.K. My son becomes highly argumentative, hyperactive, etc., when he reaches a certain level of MSG in his system, so obviously we want to avoid this problem. We will be staying with friends, so we can do much of our own cooking. Does anyone know of safe name brands? Also, is fresh produce in the U.K. generally safe or is it as treated as it is here? Any information would be appreciated.
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it illegal to bring all food products into England, or only produce? I'm going to England this summer and plan to bring almost all of my food with me, as I have done several times. I always bring canned tuna for protein, and I plan to bring my own organic brown rice and beans to cook when I get there. I bake lots of cookies using safe ingredients. While there, I purchase only fruits (just a few that I can peel), and eat hard-boiled eggs. I bring my own meals and snacks for the plane ride as well. I am very sensitive to almost everything, so I have to be prepared. Maybe your friend in England can do a little research to find out where the nearest source of organic foods might be. Also, I think I have seen some websites about food additives in the U.K. Good luck and have fun.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 12:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just received an e mail from a woman in the U. K. who is a activist against excitotoxins, since her son is autistic. She has just written a book with recipes, so I can see if she would let me send you her e mail address, Evelyn.
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 5:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ruth: Perhaps the "owner" of the following site, Sharla, would offer some help:

The majority of folks at her discussion board seem to be from England.
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:13 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks ME for the great website. Lots of info and links for the U.K.
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 4:39 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi All,
I enjoy this site so, so much, it is very helpful. My question is this, I have read about swelling of the face with puffy eyes and dark circles as a reaction to MSG, and was wondering if anyone can give any foods, lotions and such? I have terrible swelling around the eyes with these aweful dark circles that make me look pretty scary. Please put as much info. as you can, I need all the help I can get believe me! I already try to watch MSG ingestion as much as possible, but need specifics on this condition.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 7:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Free glutamate in the form of lecithin, citric acid, hydrolyzed wheat, silk, protein, and many irritating chemicals find their way in cosmetics, and toiletries. When you say you are watching your MSG ingestion as much as possible, you can still be getting it from some hidden sources you are unaware of. Do you take supplements of any kind?
Christine K.P.S.
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know whether the ascorbic acid (vitamin C) added to organic strained baby food in jars is a potential hazard? I don't know whether this is a "safe" additive. I thought it was just to retain color of the fruits. I know there's a lot of discussion regarding vitamins and enriched products on this site...just wondering if the ascorbic acid was included.

Also, my husband and I can't find the plain, unenriched organic oatmeal cereal for my daughter this week. We've looked at three health food stores in our area and no one has it. They're sold out. Since there was an earlier question regarding oatmeal and high glutamate levels, I was wondering whether this was a divine intervention of some kind to say don't buy it again? (Hee,hee) Sincerely, Christine
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 2:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christine, In most cases, not seeing your favorite foods usually is a hint that the formula changed. Beware the reappearance....
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 2:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Deb A.
Thanks for the response to the swollen, puffy eye question. I do not take any supplements at this time, but would be willing to try anything to help this situation, I look terrible and tired all the time, I've even had people say things like "boy, you look like you don't feel good" or "you look tired". Now I just say I'm tired all the time to kind of cover up.:( I am very aware of MSG, my husband is hospital action with too much ingested. Your site has been a God send. Deb, can you give me some specific products that cause this problem and maybe recommend some supplements, I remember reading in your book about your experience with this(there are 3 of your books in our church library and they are always out, I put the first one there and there were so many people that wanted to read it that a couple more were added:) I must admit that I am addicted to Pepsi, just regular thank God, years ago I drank diet until I started forgetting what I was doing while in the middle of doing it! And that was way before I knew about MSG. Please help, I look aweful, probably 20 years older than I really am!!!Maybe specific products to stay away from, specific ingredients, and supplements. Thank you so very much for all the help.
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 9:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Anon: You HAVE to get off of the Pepsi!!! Just a short story about my husband. He too was addicted to Pepsi, but only drank about one 8 oz. can a day. He had chronic health problems, consisting of immediate, painful diarrhea within a few hours of ingestion of Pepsi, severe hypotensive crises, etc. When I discovered my sensitivity to msg, and changed our diet, he noticed some improvement, but the biggest improvement came when he finally gave up his Pepsi. Literally all of his symptoms resolved, and now when he cheats and has a single Pepsi, the old problems re-appear but to a much less severe degree. It is so predictable. I am convinced that most soft drinks through the citric acid or "flavors" are adding msg in some form to keep people addicted. If you do nothing else, get off of the Pepsi!!! I love reverse osmosis water with a squeeze of lemon or lime, or the ginger tea that Deb A. has described. It is hard to do, but you will never regret it. I was addicted to Dr. Pepper (3 a day), and now that I have been msg free for about one year, I don't even get the cravings at all!! It can be done, especially if you ask God for help, and keep reading the posts on this board.
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 11:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Anon. You have shared some very important facts about the addictive and dangerous properties of MSG and also caffeine. I have a brother-in-law who knows how much better he feels when he doesn't drink Diet Coke, but is so addicted that he keeps reverting to his 2 to 3 liters a day. His symptoms are getting worse with anxiety disorder, depression and stomach distress. Now he's taking all kinds of meds for them. I was addicted to soft drinks, too. Couldn't believe the energy I got back once I went through withdrawal. It is definitely worth it, and I love cold water with a squeeze of lemon, now.
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 12:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Deb A.and other Anon.
Thank you for your response. Is there any other specifics you would suggest in response to the dark circle and puffy eyes? I know full well that I need to give up the Pepsi, it is so difficult!!! I just quit smoking about 3 weeks ago and with the help of the Lord am doing pretty good, there is probably MSG in cigs. Any other specifics would be helpful. Deb A. you asked if I took supplements, is there some that will help this problem?
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 1:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Anon. It's just that most vitamin pills or protein drinks contain hidden free glutamate sources. Most of us here cannot take supplements, especially in gel caps. Some here take taurine powder from, and some swear by CoQ10. But the fillers in binders to watch out for in most pills are, gelatin, maltodextrin, cornstarch, dextrates, rice, wheat or corn proteins or starches, lecithin, and others. Jack Samuels tells us that there is MSG in many cigarettes. Takes away bitterness. I suggest you go to the homepage and download the list of glutamate sources and learn them first. Take them shopping with you for food, and read labels.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 3:02 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are so many things added to cigarettes, that they are bound to contain at least a few things that each smoker is sensitive to. Per the site below, they include:

1-Aspartic Acid, Citric Acid, Caffeine, 1-Cysteine, alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol, 1-Glutamic Acid, 1-Glutamine, Hydrolyzed Milk Solids, Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins, Methyl Nicotinate, beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether, 1-Phenylalanine, Solanone, Tolualdehydes, etc.

They can't ALL be good for you.
Carol H
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 3:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who would know better about using addictive food ingredients than a tobacco company?
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi All,
Seems like I read where someone on here said that vitamine B12 is a long chain of MSG, I know I said that wrong but I couldn't find the info. again. Is it not wise to take B12 if you are msg sensitive? My multi-vitamine has B12 ,of course, and I don't want to be taking the wrong thing. Please verify........... Thanks
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 3:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous, it was folate. Vitamin B12 is very important. It helps the body convert homocysteine into methionine. Homocysteine is what seems to build up in patients with artherosclerosis.
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 8:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anyone having any problems with lettuce? I made a salad with just loose leaf lettuce and a dressing of pure olive oil,dry mustard, and fresh lemon juice. I also had fresh sole I coated in whole wheat flour and fried in olive oil and a touch of organic butter. I made a sauce of fresh lemon juice, flour, 1 egg yolk, and water. I began itching terribly all over my back and my shins about 45 minutes later. Now I have itchy bumps that burn if I scratch too much. I soaked and squeezed the fish several times, and the butcher said it was fresh. It tasted mild and good. Sorry to take up so much room, but I am stumped. Maybe I am allergic to lemon or olive oil or even eggs. It's very hard to sort sometimes. Usually, I get a headache when I get MSG, but I have had itching sometimes.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 8:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Maybe you're sensitive to sulfites:
Evelyn H.
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 9:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


The reaction you're describing is the reaction I have with sulfites. Not sure of the source of the sulfites in the foods you're describing. Was the olive oil extra virgin?
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 1:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the link. I am allergic to sulfites, but thought by washing the lettuce in water, just in case it was sprayed with it, I might be safe. I added a little detergent as well. Rinsed it 5 times. Do you think the fish was sprayed with it? I read the bottle and it is the extra virgin oil from Albertson's. It's their brand. I have been suspicious of cooking oils. Do they add preservatives to them too?Thank you both for the fast feedback. I appreciate this site so much. I read it every day.
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 6:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think you can wash off and squeeze out whatever may have been on the fish. If some sort of substance was used to keep the fish fresh, a fish as delicate as flounder would probably soak it right up despite what you do. (I tried to do the same thing once and it did not work!)

If fish is not cleaned and cut up right where it is being sold, I will not buy it. I have found that salesperson rarely knows despite what they say) if anything was added to keep it fresh on the boat, at the docks, the fish market or a central area where a supermarket chain receives its shipments and prepares the fish to desiminate to its stores.

I've had plenty of reactions from flounder that was "mild and good" too. My reactions to fish with fresheners added (e.g., sulfites) would be digestive in nature while a close friend of mine reacts just as you did -- either type of reaction is really terrible.

When you are feeling better, I'd head back to where you bought it and quiz them further. Feel better!
Laurie M
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 7:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I live in Alaska and the halibut processors will ship boxes of fish on Alaska airlines to individuals. They preserve the fish by encasing it in ice (literally sprayed with water only and flash frozen) The halibut up her is excellent I usually catch my own but occasionally buy a case. I have never reacted to it and I am also allergic to Sulfites. If you are on the west Coast I recommend contacting Sitka Sound Seafood Processors. You should be able to get the number form information. The fish is cheaper than the grocery and tastes like heaven. I have halibut at least twice a week. Yummy
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 9:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I bet anything that the sole was treated. I have another package in the freezer, and will probably chuck it. Who knows what is safe anymore? It seems everyone I talk to is sick and no one links it to food. What is wrong with this picture? I was just as stupid once, but thanks to God and sites like this, I was able to begin a jouney to wellness. Thank you everyone here for answering newcomers' questions. Sorry if I sound like a greenie. I still have lots to learn. I know I need to get the book offered here. It would probably help a lot.Thank you again! How can I be sure that chicken isn't treated?
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 9:55 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have read (maybe in Debby's book) that fish is sprayed with sulfites on the boat where it is caught, or it wouldn't make it to shore in a fit condition to eat. This is probably only a slight exaggeration, but I don't trust any fish I don't catch myself, or know the person who did. Unfortunately, I have had to give up fish. I eat Contessa brand frozen shrimp, and have tried to locate a similar, safe frozen fish, but so far, I have not been able to do so. As for lettuce, I think that most of it is sprayed with AuxiGro, which I learned from this board, in the past, cannot be washed off because it is absorbed into the entire plant. I have very good luck with organic lettuce-only 2 varieties available at my health food store. Hope you can find some. (No iceberg or head lettuce is safe from Auxigro. Whole Foods told me it doesn't come in organic.)
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 10:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think one should be careful with the chicken. I seem to be reacting to something on or in the regular brands. I suggest you do a search (see menu on left) and look up the past discussions on it.

I do fine with the hormone free ones sold in my health food store that certify the chickens were raised without any pesticides. I am still a greenie but checking in here helps me avoid learning by mistakes. My mistakes happen less often now.

Laurie M - Your mention of fresh unadulterated halibut has my mouth watering!
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 3:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi anonymous. There's very little I can add to what the others here have said. I am able to do well with whole salmon that is fresh. I buy the whole thing, and the butcher will fillet or cut it into steaks for free. I have spoken with fishermen from Oregon, and they said that the bigger outfits put sulfites or pyrophosphate into the big holding tanks where they throw some fish, and mostly shrimp. Not all of them practice this, but it prevents black spot on shrimp and keeps fish fresher when they are days from shore. So it's best to get it locally if you can, and freeze it for when it's harder to get. Luckily for me, we can get fresh salmon most of the year here. I have noticed there are more stores making organic lettuces available here. Must be more of a demand, which is good. You can call most poultry producers by dialing 1 800 555 1212 for the toll free number. If you can find it raised without pesticides or soy products, you will probably do better. Even when a product says it is minimally processed, it can be injected with or dipped in MSG broth or chemicals used as preservatives.
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 5:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gee, I could cry I am so happy to find others who are tuned in to what is going on. I work as a nurse in a psych unit. I am floored by the panic attacks, itching, migraines, rage, palpitations, aches in joints, sneezing, congestion and more in these people. It is all making sense now. A few patients were willing to take some advice and seriously do a trial of food elimination for several days. I advised them what I found suspicious in their diet. Of course 80% of the stuff was bad, the nutrasweet use was astronomical, and the gobs of ranch dressings and french salad dressings at our salad bar always guaranteed groups at the nurse station asking for medications. Soooo predictable. I suggested to eliminate all but the eggs, dry toast, fresh fruit, baked potatoes, skinless unseasoned chicken, water, steamed veggies with olive oil and salt. These people were in tears they were so happy. Some are considering telling the doctor they want to get off the meds and see how they do. Before the change they just kept asking for stronger doses and a change of medication, always on a new one hoping for something to work. No migraines, no panic attacks, no requests for sudafed or benadryl, maalox, xanax. UNBELIEVABE!!!! But for every one I helped another thought it was crazy and wouldnt even try the change.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 11:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Articles like the one below support the connection between glutamate and psychiatric disorders:
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 4:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Anonymous,

As Deb A. said to me once...."when they get sick enough, they will be willing to try anything" .......

What is amazing to me, is that people would still rather have that magic pill? then change years of destructive eating habits. Its so simple really, but it takes an enormous amount of discipline. You would think the price of those pills would be enough to scare them? It does me! Keep helping those people anonymous, someone is bound to hear you.....

Carol H
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:59 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am so happy to hear of a nurse able to directly help people with these disorders. You are like an angel for us all. Thank you.

Roy, your link ties directly in to what I was thinking up this morning. I'll post it on the sharing scientific information page.
Deb A.
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 1:48 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just read the nurse's posting and I feel the same as Carol about her. Thank you so much for making a difference, anonymous! I would like to post more of your experiences on our site. You can e mail me any time at
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 3:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Everyone,

Could someone post the link again with the glutamic index showing which foods have the most, and which the least? I have had a hellish last few days, and really need to make some necessary changes in how I am eating. Thanks,

Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 9:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Here's a link showing glutamate levels in foods. I believe the most important thing, however, is to check labels for the worst culprit, added glutamate, which the site linked here tends to dismiss.
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 4:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's another link showing glutamate levels in food:
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 2:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everyone,

Deb A., would there be any reason why I would be getting a strong reaction to the water I am drinking from my Brita water filter pitcher.

I called the company, and the woman said the filter contains "Silver" Just wondering...

Deb A.
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 3:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi DJ. I have no idea, really. Have you just started using it? Stop for awhile to make sure that's problem. You can begin to use it again and see if you begin to react again. I've never heard from anyone yet with that question, but you never know. How are you reacting? It may be that you are reacting to something else. Have you tried any new items recently? Wish I could be of more help. I have heard from people who are beginning to react to the extra chemicals that are now being added to some city waters. In our area, they announced that due to the energy crunch, they have stopped using their ultra violet filter and are now adding more chloride. Some are adding other "germ fighters" beside chloride. (phosphates, sulfates, etc.)People are complaining.
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 3:35 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

DJ - Maybe you are sensitive to plastic? Regardless, you may want to post your question at the site for folks with Multiple Chemical Sensitivities ( Many of the folks there know so much about things like this just to cope each day. Once you register at the site and before you post your question, click on messages and use the search feature to find previous postings on water filters. (Anyone concerned about what chemicals are doing to us should check it out too!)
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 3:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PS I just read Deb A's post and this is quite possible. Also, the chemicals used to make the water filter may be "outgassing" -- this is a term that is frequently explained at the site I suggested.
Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 2:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb, MEMorrisNJ for your reply.

I had went on a one day food, just water from the pitcher, had facial flushing, dry mouth, dull headache....the usual.

I have decided to go to the store and pick up some Poland Spring water and try that. Thanks again.

Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 9:11 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Canned tuna?

I am a total newbie, but I have discovered that I may be MSG and/or sulfite sensitive.

So I have a couple of questions:

1) Does canned tuna contain sulfites/MSG?
2) Is there a standard allergy test for sulfite/MSG reactions?

Deb A.
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 10:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, most brands of canned tuna contain MSG in the form of calcium caseinate, broth, autolyzed yeast, etc. Some tuna is treated with preservatives and some are not, so it is difficult to be sure when labeling laws allow for 10 parts per million to go undisclosed. I use Tree of Life tuna that I find in our health food store. There are other safe brands on the market.

There are no standard tests that we are aware of.
Carol H
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 7:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anonymous, the best way to know if MSG is a problem is to avoid it completely and see if your symptoms disappear. It is also the safest way to deal with MSG reactions and other food sensitivities. They can't take a sample of your blood and check for antibodies, because how MSG acts is as a nerve cell stimulant on the living nerve cells in place in your body, not as a true allergen. The only way to check for a reaction would be to have your body exposed to it in some way. Since MSG can kill nerve cells, that is an unacceptable risk. Avoidance is truly the best test. The way you'll know is that you feel better. That is how most of us learned what MSG was doing to us - we stopped ingesting it.
Deb S
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 7:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have also seen hydrolyzed protein in canned tuna. If it says the ingredients are tuna, water, salt, and nothing else, then and only then do I buy it. There is also one brand (can't remember which) that has just tuna packed in olive oil with no other additives (too oily for me, though).
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 9:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


You might try substituting salmon for the tuna. It has more taste, so they are less likely to spike it with troublesome additives to alter the flavor.
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 4:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Starkist tuna in Olive oil is the one that works
for me.
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 4:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we not have to worry about sulfites in canned tuna?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 8:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


In the past, canned tuna contained sulfites that weren't on the label. They are supposedly being labeled now. Per the link below, "The sulfites apparently were contained but not declared in a raw material -- hydrolyzed vegetable protein -- which is added to the tuna to enhance flavor." By the way, h.v.p. is listed as a source of msg.
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 9:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is free glutamate the problem, or is it the bound that I should look out for?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 12:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Free glutamate is the problem. Keep in mind that the MSG that manufacturers spike food with is not the innocuous product they portray it as:
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 9:53 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Roy. I guess my question is;

Isn't there free glutamate found naturally in almost everything? I suspect I am having a reaction to MSG, but could it be just this free glutamate, that is found in fruit for instance?
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 6:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No. Glutamate is an amino acid. It is found in proteins (including vegetable protein):

If it's in fruit, it's probably because it was sprayed with auxigro (particularly grapes). If you are reacting to fruit, it may be due to sulfites instead, particularly if dried. Also, foods can have a lot of bound glutamate in them and not cause a problem. It's when the glutamate is freed up by various processes that you get a reaction.
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 8:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually apples are quite high in natural glutamates
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 2:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am doing fine with apples, which are one of the few fruits I can eat. Maybe it's because I don't like the ones that are real sweet. I thought I read that ripening fruits and vegetables are starting to ferment, which is natural heat, which causes the glutamates to be freed up. The more ripe the fruit or vegetable, the more glutamates it has- or free glutamates? I'm not exactly sure about this. I make sure I eat organic potatoes, lettuce, and strawberries, as the non-organic ones are sprayed with AuxiGro (MSG). There are just a few other fruits and veggies I can eat because I also have to watch out for tyramine, (bananas, avocados, spinach, raspberries, red plums,etc.) which can cause headaches, my main MSG symptom. Cooking frees up more glutamates. I can't eat tomatoes or tomato sauce any more. Tomatoes are already high in glutamates, and cooking frees up more of it. It's all just trial and error. I know that foods, many of them very healthy natural fruits and vegetables, cause my headaches. Keep a log of what you eat.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 7:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


We're talking apples and oranges here. If apples have so much glutamate in them and heating and other processes release it, then people would be getting MSG reactions from eating apple pie. I know of no such instances.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 4:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


There does appear to be a possible source of glutamate in apple pie - carrageenan, such as in the "Dutch Apple Pie" served at Burger King:
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 7:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is an interesting pro-MSG website at They list several foods high in free glutamates. Apples are not listed but broccoli is, and it has more free glutamate even than tomatoes. Peas and grapes are also high on the list. They claim that the body cannot differentiate between MSG, and glutamates from foods. Glutamates are glutamates. It's all the same to the body. They also claim that we get more glutamates on a daily basis from the foods we eat, and very little from MSG. I don't know about that, but it seems like a good reason for taking into consideration the glutamate content of natural foods.
Deb A
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MSG that is produced in a factory contains L- glutamic acid, pyroglutamic acid, D-glutamic acid, contaminants and carcinogens. L-glutamic acid is found naturally bound to other amino acids in MANY foods. D-glutamic acid is never found in nature, and the L-glutamic acid found in MSG is different from that found in fresh, not too ripe tomatoes, mushrooms, milk, broccoli, etc.,. The peptide linkages have been broken down due to fermentation or hydrolysis, using heat water and chemicals in some cases. This means that when free glutamic acid, like that in MSG is ingested, it can reach the blood stream 8 to 10 times faster than the bound form, according to Dr. Schwartz, a toxicologist. The glutamate we get from foods high in natural bound glutamate, will eventually be digested and turned into free glutamic acid, but it is a slower process in our bodies. I feel that if MSG had never been added to our foods, most of us would be capable of handling the glutamate in natural foods. However, due to the massive amounts most people ingest today in the form of MSG, our bodies rebel against the overload and cannot tolerate this excess amount. It also may be possible that our bodies begin to react to the glutamate in natural foods, as it can comes to recognize all glutamates as a threat, thus causing allergic type reactions: histamine, adrenaline, and T cell responses. I myself know my tomato and cheese limitations. Tests on autistic children in the U.K. have found an excess amount of glutamate in their gut. Perhaps our bodies are capable of metabolizing just so much glutamate. When we ingest beyond that amount, the destruction begins. What the pro MSG propaganda does is blur the lines between safe, naturally occurring glutamate in foods. and the forms created in a factory. The latter is added excessively to processed foods, and that is the real problem.
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 1:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I react strongly to all cheeses, peanuts and tomatoes. I have been tested for allergy (skin test) which came up negative for all of them. However, I get a tightness in chest, wheezing, headaches, etc. Can these foods be linked to MSG/Sulfites?
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 8:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi there. I think I am being affected by MSG. I really want to figure out if it is indeed MSG, and I want to go on an elimination diet to determine if it is. Can anyone point me at some sample meals/menus that are MSG free. I have purchased a book from this site, but it will not be here for another week or so (I am in Canada), and I really want to get started before then.

Thanks for the help, Paul
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 8:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul again here. I have read some info on Taurine, and was wondering if I should give it a try. Is this recommended? My symptoms include chest pains, wheezing, light-headedness, mild panic/anxiety, stiff neck, occasional (once a month or so)lession around mouth, blood-shot eyes.

All of these symptoms seemed to start in the last three years, close to when I started University and due to the cafeteria food, was likely consuming 10x the normal amount of MSG. I am thinking that it might have been then that I developed an MSG sensitivity.

Just so you know, I have undergone a battery of tests, and according to the doctors, I am 100% healthy. I have a friend who cut out MSG/Sulfites etc, and his health improved greatly, so I am hoping for a simular result, as I have been living with the above symptoms for 3 years now.
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 2:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi everyone!

As I have posted before, I was still having problems healthwise even after eliminating everything I could think of that may have been a problem.

Well, the last thing I have done away with, (that was very difficult to do) was wheat, and glutens. The results have been amazing....! I remember that someone on here was gluten intolerant as well.....and was wondering what symptoms they had. Thanks for any help..

Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 5:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Below is a link to a web page on symptoms of glucose intolerance:
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 9:00 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many crops of peanuts are sprayed with AuxiGro (MSG). Also, MSG is added to peanuts to make the salt stick to them. Cheeses pose lots of problems for MSG sensitive people. I don't eat any cheese because it gives me headaches. Tomatoes are very high in natural glutamates. Keep eliminating the foods you think you are sensitive to. If you're brave enough, add them back one at a time and see what happens. Those three foods are especially bad for me. Gook luck.
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 9:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Start with a little steak. Do you have access to organic lettuce? Just start with fruits and vegetables, cooked as little as possible or not at all. Careful with dairy-there's lots of MSG problems with cheese, milk, ice cream, etc. Most fish is sprayed with sulfites. Stick to beef until you receive Debby's book.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 12:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul, I went one year without any pasta, breads, cookies, etc. I ate only what I figured someone living like a caveman might live, except no milk and certainly no sugar, only the yeast mentioned below, no vinegars or pickled items and no added salt. I ate plain range meat, eggs, rice, oat and sesame cereal and some sesame crackers, fruits, vegetables, safe nuts and seeds, some Contessa shrimp, rice milk and rice cakes, fresh home fruit juice (a little). I also drank lots of water and some safe green tea. Berries and cherries bother me. The goodies I could handle were: some Classic Lays Potato chips, refrigerated peanut and other nutbutters, and unbelievably beer put out by Anheuser, that is, Natural Light and Bud Light. This was the only yeast I had. I still do 2 beers a few days a week (like only 7 days)...even cavemen need a break. My symptoms were arthritis-like, nausea, headaches, extreme heart palpitations, sweat, chills, mind confusion, edema, rage and sadness, stumbling, verbal mistakes, hypoglycemia, flu-like aches, bone pain, dry eye and dry mouth, infections that would not clear, brittle skin, hair loss, sleep disturbances, fatigue, bruising, ...gee what else. Now, I still maintain most of the diet but I have added certain safe wheat bread and cereals. Now when I do get something that isn't right, I have one bad night of sleep problems and some heart palpitations, (I then take magnesium) some edema, another night that isn't great, and two more days of being down. This four day reminder gets me back to my original caveman approach.
I am hypothyroid so do take synthroid, on minimal estrogen, and take 100 mg of CoQ10 daily. I try to get good rest and try to stay out of the fray.

Also to Carole, I understand what you are going through. Only after I began to feel better did the dark clouds start to lift.
Judy T
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 12:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paul and DJ: Oops. Obviously my mind confusion is not completely fixed....
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 1:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm obviously having some "verbal mistakes", too. I meant "gluten", not "glucose" (intolerance).
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 8:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, well I figured with how I was feeling, what have I got to lose.

So, I started fresh this morning with lots of fresh fruits, water, freshly squeezed juice, etc.

For lunch, some sushi, more fruit and juice.

Dinner was a steak, no bbq sauce, just plain, with some rice.

I am trying to eliminate as much of sulfite/msg/gluten as possible.

I know it has been less than a day, but I feel better than normal. I am going to keep up a diet simular to this until 'The Book' gets here.

Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 10:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know if nori (the seaweed often used to wrap sushi) has alot of natural glutamates in it? I speculate it does.

Paul - Be careful about fish that you have not personally seen cut-up from the whole fish. It may be possible that something may have been added to it to keep it fresh. I have had bad experiences with plain cooked fish fillets in restaurants and uncooked fish fillets that I bought in supermarkets to cook at home.
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 10:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Anon who posted 6/2/01: Anon - I learned that if you have allergic reactions that are digestive in nature and you are tested via a scratch test for food allergies, it is very unlikely that the test will indicate any positive findings regardless of whether you are allergic to the tested food. Perhaps, the same goes for testing breathing problems --- I don't know.

It was my new allergist who told me that I would be wasting my money getting skin scratch tests to find out about any food allergies (although I had her do it anyway). The allergist advised that the only medical facility in the NY/NJ area with experience in diagnosing food allergies that result in digestive problems is Mount Sinai in New York City.
Deb A.
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 7:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi MeMorris. The first MSG was made from a type of seaweed or sea moss. Yes, Nori is high in natural glutamate. I would avoid it myself.
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 1:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm confused about the seaweed thing. People have used seaweed for health benefits for ages. It is rich in so many vitamins and minerals.

Soup made with miso (a fermented soy product) and sea vegetables has been considered daily fare for good health for many generations. How could such an old, standard health food (in Asia) be bad for us!
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 1:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wonder if seaweed is good for everyone. Those with hypothyroid conditions are supposed to avoid sea salt because of the high iodine content; it causes inaccurate test results, according to my endocrinologist. Is seaweed high in iodine? I would imagine it is, and if so, should be avoided by people with hypothyroid disease.
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 1:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Isn't miso, made from soy, very high in glutamates? Soy is one of the worst headache triggers for me.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 3:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The link below discusses soy:
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 4:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the link, Roy, where I discovered that my sensitivity to the adhesive on bandages might be due to soy. Amazing!
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 4:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Miso is not a good idea for us. The seaweed used to wrap sushi should be avoided too. If you are at a Japanese restaurant, sashimi is what you want. Sashimi is simply the fish not wrapped in anything. They are those rectangular squares of fish. I usually get a dish called chirashi which is sashimi on a bed of rice with raw veggies. Be careful of the wasabi and marinated ginger too. I have seen this in stores near me and the ingredients listed have included MSG. I buy sushi ginger from Whole Foods that has no added MSG.
Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 10:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Help! I love Mexican food and so far I can only find a couple dishes on restaurant menus that I can eat now. I want to learn how to make more dishes at home, but most of the recipes call for some lard. I really don't mind using it occasionally in a recipe that traditionally uses it, like empanadas. But does it contain MSG or other chemicals? I know the cholesterol is bad, but if it's safe otherwise, I would use it now and then. Would oil or butter work just as well, or Crisco? What oils are best for cooking or baking?
Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 3:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't looked at the packages of lard for ages, so I don't have any answers for you right now. If they are full of preservatives, I would avoid them. I would imagine that a mixture of butter (no added ingredients) and plain shortening, or preferably mild olive or safflower oil might work in most baked goods.
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 2:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

New Spectrum has a solid shortening that looks
just like Crisco. I bought some but haven't tried it yet. Since their other products mayo and flax seed oil don't bother me, I guess it would be okay.

Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 5:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AMH - What is written under in ingredients on the Spectrum "crisco" label please?
Carol H
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 1:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

100% Organic mechanically pressed palm oil. Contains no Palm Kernel Oil. I have some in my kitchen since I am allergic to soy. It's wonderful.
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 3:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know the source of vit D3 thats added to milk. I'm trying to find a good source of milk for my son since the organic milk we've been using seems to be not working very well now. I can't find another milk that doesn't have vit D3 added and if it's made from yeast that may be a problem.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I don't know if the vitamin D3 in milk is from yeast, but they apparently don't always add as much as they claim:

"Now, you may be thinking "what about the vitamin D in milk?" I am sorry to report that a 1992 study (and other recent studies) showed that 71
percent of 42 milk samples purchased in the U.S. did not contain the amount of vitamin D listed on the label. Most had much lower levels.
Another article which found similar results concluded by saying, "A unified national program to monitor the process of vitamin D fortification is needed to ensure that proper amounts of vitamin D are included in milk." I agree with this, we need such a program. I am not saying that milk is a bad source of vitamin D but it is usually not as good as we think."

excerpted from:
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 11:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Last week while shopping I was very tempted to buy a can of soup from ShariAnn's Organics.
Looking at their site the ingredients for the soups are listed. A couple look safe.
Does anyone have any experience with this company?

Deb A.
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 3:52 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cherly, will he drink Rice Dream plain or calcium fortified rice milk?
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 3:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry I misspelled your name, Cheryl.
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 4:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, When my family was following the Feingold diet several years ago, we were avoiding the vitamin A palmitate in milk, I think because it had preservatives. Maybe this, along with other additives and pasturization, is causing your son problems. I know the low-fat milk in my fridge right now (neither my daughter nor I drink it) has vitamin A palmitate added. Not sure about whole milk.
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 5:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AMH - I have had trouble with ShariAnn's. I think the ingredient "spices" was a problem --- but it has been a while.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 8:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I'd also be wary of the soy sauce:
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2001 - 8:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ruth, I think you may be right about the vit A palmitate. I was giving whole organic milk from local milk farmers. Nothing was added not even vit D which I think is unusual. He wasn't getting any vit D so that may be part of his problem. They told me they were only required by law to add vit A to the 2% milk. I noticed a change in the color of the milk at about the time he got sick the first part of Sept. I called them twice and asked them what were they doing different to the milk. They said nothing only that the cows were grazing on clover now and not before so the brownish tint to the milk was more natural vit A. Anyway thats when all the problems started and I just decided it has to be the milk. I've been eliminating and changing everything else so I finally figured since he was sick everyday it must be something thats pretty continual in his diet. He's improved since I took him off milk 2 days ago. I would really like to find a suitable milk and will try Debs suggestion about Rice Dream. Deb, do you know if it contains any sulfites or other possible additivies? Anyway, I gave him organic 2% this morning with which did have the VitA palimate added and he had a reaction tonight. I've been thinking it was the milk or vit A. Next on my list to try if he won't drink rice dream is the Lactaid treated with lactase enzyme. All of my kids have had a problem with lactic acid in milk. I don't know if it has vit A added or not. Thanks everyone for your help.
Carol H
Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 1:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, milk allergy is a common allergy. The reason they started to add vitamin A to milk is that vitamin A is fat soluble. When you remove part of the fat or cream from whole milk, you are removing the fat soluble vitamins too. 2% fat milk has half the fat of whole milk, and half the Vit A as well. That is why they add it back. Whole milk seems to be better tolerated by MSG sensitives. Try to find one without any additives at all. Another little milk lesson: the reason that whole milk was homogenized was to keep the fat mixed into the milk. Years ago it was realized that when the parents used the cream in their coffee, and gave the skim to their children to drink, the children were not getting the benefit of the fat soluble vitamins. Homogenization mixed the milk better, and the vitamins too.
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 5:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can anyone tell me which of these ingredients contain MSG?

Cheese stick-pasturized part skim milk, cheese cultures, salt, enzymes.

Cottage cheese-cultured pasteurized skim milk, cream and lactose, salt , guar gum, mono and diglycerides, xanthan gum, carob bean gum and enzyems.

Earth grains whole wheat bread-whole wheat, high fructose corn syurp, wheat gluten, honey, rolled wheat, rolled oates, brown sugar, soybean oil, cultured whey, soy flour, distilled vinegar.

Deb A.
Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 4:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not that they contain pure factory created MSG salt. Some of these foods are high in glutamate because they started out naturally that way, and due to processing (hydrolysis, fermentation, dehydration), the natural glutamate was converted into free glutamic acid, the harmful component of MSG. Cheese cultures and powerful manmade enzymes serve to cure the cheese, but they also create more free glutamate in the process, since milk is high in natural glutamate. Low fat cheeses contain added dry milk solids which are higher in free glutamate than fresh milk, due to high heat production. The longer a cheese is cured, the more free glutamate will be created. I stick to mild cheeses, and whole milk ones and go easy on them. Lactose is derived from milk, as is whey, and so contains glutamate. Di-glycerides and corn syrup are made from hydrolyzed corn, so contain glutamate, since corn is natually high in glutamate...most MSG is made from corn fermentiation today, along with molasses, and grain and vegetable starches. I do fine with fresh corn, but avoid corn syrup. Vegetable gums, like the ones you listed are often made from vegetable scrap food high in glutamate. Some people do fine with Xanthan gum or guar gum, depending on the source and pprodcution. Gluten is wheat protein and contains glutamate. The gluten powders added to breads often contain other glutmate rich ingredients. Soy is very high in glutamate and I avoid all soy products. This info and more are in found in our book.
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 5:08 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, The answer is d. is all of the above.
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 6:48 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Deb. I quit giving him all of those and I think I'm seeing an improvement. I used to think he only reacted to the pure MSG form, but I'm seeing it's more that just MSG causing the reactions. I've also discovered the past few weeks that he reacts to ALL acidic foods even citrus fruits so I'm also having to learn about acidic foods to avoid and I've also started treated his organic milk with lactase enzyme because I highly suspect the lactic acid in the milk was causing some of his reactions. His organic milk has no added vitamins to cause reactions. It's getting a little easier to know the trigger foods but harder to feed him. Since he's only 8 he's not fond of vegetables (he doens't eat tomeatoes, so that's not a problem). Also even organic red meat is high in natural sulfates so that's a problem for him. We got some vinison from a friend, but it's fairly high in sulfates too. Chicken breast seems to be the lowest so he does eat some chicken. Does anyone else react to natural acidic foods like oranges, lemons, etc?
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 10:58 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, In order to avoid all MSG, you are going to have to change the way you eat. Many here have referred to this change in eating as the "cave-man's diet," nothing that can't be picked off a tree or bush, plus carefully chosen meats and fish, plus eggs. I avoid ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that comes packaged, with the exception of fruit leathers from a health food store and organic rice cakes. If you do try packaged foods, make sure you can identify all of the ingredients easily as being a food, not something unfamilar. That's what I do, and why I leave it on the shelf. Even tomatoes, as in tomato sauce, can have free glutamate from the heat during processing and you wouldn't know it from reading the label. Deb's book, "Battling the MSG Myth," is a must read. You might check out the ingredients or processing of the organic milk, as many brands are problematic. Thanks for letting us know about the sulfates in beef. Both beef and oranges give me headaches. (I was tested by a naturopath in England last July and these were two of the many foods she told me, personally, not to eat. She told me that every person has certain foods they can or cannot eat. I can eat some foods with tyramine, like raspberries, but not bananas, also high in tyramine. So it's not the tyramine, but something about each individual food that makes the difference. I learned a great deal from her!)
I also remember that for the Feingold Diet, oranges were avoided because of salicylic acid, which grapefruit and lemons do not have, so they were safe to eat. Salicylic acid can cause hyperactivity and lack of concentration, but I don't know about headaches. I do remember my son could not eat an orange without going berserk. I wish I had had more time in England to test other citris foods, but oranges are the only ones we got around to. I know I can eat lemons O.K. but I'm not sure about grapefruit.
Don Campbell
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2001 - 11:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok people lets get real here. Ruth, I do believe, for all your trusting in these experts of the acidic value of foods, they and you are missing something. It ain't the orange. It's what they've done to it, either genetically, in feeding the tree (fertilizer), or pesticide, or herbacide,or preservative, and don't forget growth hormones (steroids). And we know that they have now got permission and have been spraying the fruits with msg (Oxigrow) for the past two years. The reason people now have "allergies" to the BASICS like corn, wheat, soy, sugar, beets, and tomatoes is because they are using these basics to produce the poisons that are making our systems reject them, even as far as to not accept that which it came from. Now they are taking those poisons and spraying them on, and into all the foods that were still safe, basic. Your GodDamned problem lies here, not in the basic foods our body was designed to function on. Processed glutamate, and PROCESSED GLUTAMATE ALONE is responsible for this perversion. Processed glutamate is acidic. It raises the level of acidity in the digestion system and the bodies' acidity level. The body, in response, tries to capitulate and closes doors that won't allow the acidity. Make sense? THERE IS NOT A DAMN THING WRONG WITH NATURAL GLUTAMATES!!! If our systems are unable to accept them (in their natural basic state, with the catalysts that accompany them also in any given basic, non cooked food, it is because of an imbalance that can be set right again. Now do I hear any argument from anyone saying that their balance can not be restored? Is anyone suffering to the point that you can't eat the basics, like tomatoes, oranges, milk, wheat, ect. and really believe that you are set that way for life? Do you believe that balance could be restored? I ask this, not totally out of conviction, but out of genuine curiosity. Where are we here? Read above again where Deb says what all is in the food and what they are doing to it. Don (pick ur brain) C.
Tom Fernstrom
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 7:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Oh, if it were that simple!!!

Luckily I have been able to go back to ingesting foods that have natural glutamates because I have been able to tolerate the CoQ10 dosages and they have helped me not to react. But you must understand that many of the people here have suffered for years with their symptoms and until recently have ingested excitotoxins on a daily basis without knowing their affect.

We haven't even scratched the surface yet in our investigation of what long term excitotoxin ingestion can do to the human body and if there is a hope for recovery. You can't just expect to turn this on and off that easily. If you could, wouldn't those who suffer from MS or Alzhiemers be the first to recover dramatically?

Be realistic. We sufferers know that this is something we will have to live with. It is our children that we must hold up hope for so that they and their children will someday be free of this poison.

You have the benefit of youth. You may not have been exposed to the point of no return. The cellular damage might be able to be healed or reversed in your case. I cannot fool myself into thinking that years of "intake abuse" can be eliminated by this simple change in diet and supplementation. I admit that I feel 100% better than I used to through abstinence and supplementation, but I know there has been damage done that cannot be reversed.

Some alarmists have even suggested that these excitotoxins were designed by some terrorist organization to damage our immune systems to the point that we will become succeptable to all sorts of biological infection that our bodies would have been normally able to combat. That may not be so far from the truth.
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 12:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ruth and Don,

I believe there is some kind of acidic imbalance in my youngest son. He can't tolerate acids of any kind. Not natural or glutamic, or added as perservatives or any kind including sulfites which are acidic too. Chemicals in general are acid forming. There's good book about macrobotics called Acid and Alkaline by Herman Aihara that expains this very well. My oldest son was this way 15 years ago and has overcome (healed whatever happened to him). He now tolerates most foods very well but he absolutely couldn't eat an orange in any form and he was on a restricted diet. I didn't have access to the internet way back then and was pretty much on my own. By keeping a food dairy for several months I was able to determine he reacted to acidic foods and sometimes ended up in the ER room at the hospital his reactions were so severe. I've known for quite some time my youngest also can't tolerate them. I just forgot about the lactase in his milk. It is converted to lactic acid in digestion. Since treating his organic milk about 2 days ago with lactase enzyme and stopping all other dairy, his condition is greatly improving. He had a great weekend! My husband on the other hand at age 45 still can't tolerate most highly acidic foods or supplements. It took me a while to make the free glutamic acid connection and remove that from his diet as well. I think I have done this now and he's a normal acting child again. So what I have to do is go back to what worked for my oldest son 15 years ago. One thing I did with my olest was supplement his diet with lactobacillis and treated him for candida. I'm planning on treating my youngest for that also but was waiting until he was well enough for that because it can cause symptoms as the yeast are dying that are a little unpleasant due to yeast produce amalyde when dying. Both my kids with these digestive problems had multiple treatments with antibiotics, more than most children I would say. Whether there is any connection I don't know. I'm just telling you about my situation and what I've learned over the years of dealing with this.

Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 12:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That was supposed to be aldehyde not amalyde in the previous post.

Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 12:40 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, you're getting it. I think. Good to hear there was an immediate change when you eliminated the msg. That is THE major problem. I apologize for the hostility in my responce to other responces to your plague and not adressing you personally. I have been trying to wake the people up here that don't see that the msg, PROCESSED free glutamates, cause the greatest imbalance of the bodies functions. Not sulfites (which are bad and create the same reaction in us, and we must eliminate), not acidity, not pesticides, or herbicides, or even growth hormones, or genetic manipulation. I said what I did for the others here that have been forced to realize that this is their problem, and that when they eliminate the msg, have found that it was the cause, but don't really understand why. And I am trying to get them to understand what should be done to deal with the problem, to let people know at this point in time (but that is another story and can be found under "Sharing scientific info", under "Monsanto will pay like Phillip Morris". I want you to understand also, that unlike all the other poisons in our food, processed glutamates attack the central nervous system, the brain, the thing that controls all our basic functions and metabolism. While your family responds with the reaction of intolerance to acidic foods, others react with breathing problems,(asthma in children) nervous disorders,(anxiety, panic attacks, attention deficit disorder, depression) and many other things. Tom, I am adressing the childrens' concern. I am fully aware that most here have had their systems broken to the point that their balance is not easily restored, such as type 2 diabetes. But I was responding in consideration of the fact that these ARE children and their balance can be restored still. Cheryl, you are to be commended for your excellant concern and observations. Keeping a food dairy is very prudent, and I commend you on your caring. Herman Aihara may be very intelligent but I gaurante you that he is not aware of what msg is doing. To further extrapolate, I had said above that msg causes an acidic imbalance. I don't mean that it is acidic in itself (which it is), but that it is undermining the bodies ability to deal with acids because it is affecting the central nervous system, the brain, which controls that ability. Do not bother going back to what you had to do with your oldest son. Read the lists of sources of processed glutamates if you haven't already an this site under "Hidden names for msg" and read all the listed ingredients of the foods as you buy them. DO NOT treat milk with the lactase enzyme. The "enzymes" and stuff that our food companies are producing ( the same ones that produce the drugs to counter the poisons in the foods which they put in them) are also poison and full of msg. Stay away from all the enzymes, proteins, anything listed in the ingrediants that is added to supposedly counter, or be a supplement to benifit us. Listen to what Ruth is saying above, that we must go back to the caveman diet. She is right about that. However, Ruth do you realize that tomatoes are a basic that is not polluted in itself. Your system has been disrupted to the the point,(from msg), where it can not tolerate even natural glutamates being subjected to heat, but there is more hope for the young. The tomatoes also contain, (naturally, uncooked), in themselves, a catalyst, a balance for the natural glutamate that they contain. Everybody here, that has been poisoned to the extent that they must seek catalysts, unfortunatally does not perceive that the big problem lies origanally in the processed glutamate poisoning. Again, the poisons are coming from the basic foods that the food companies are using to make the food additives from, like wheat, corn, sugar, tomatoes, soy and beets. That is why people are now unable to process even these same natural foods, and are "allergic". Cheryl, milk in itself has been so processed, corrupted, and "converted" that it is no longer the natural basic food sorce that it used to be and is still. You can't get just plain real milk in the stores anymore. Just eliminate it totally for now. Now I had thrown out the question to everyone here; is anyone reacting to natural glutamtes? This reaction is affected, at this point in time, by the addition of processed glutamates to the basic foods, as in Oxigrow being sprayed on crops and being absorbed, and by the adding of msg in some form after the crop is harvested. I do maintain that it is only the processed glutamates that are doing the original and total harm. Do you get it people? And on a more positive note, Tom, I believe your damage can be reveresed. There are natural catalysts, not Coq10, taurine, or any derivative, but a natural whole food source. You guys compound the problem by relying on synthetically produced catalysts. It creates other problems and continues the imbalance. I do understand that I am lucky and have been able to get my balance back, just before it was too late, and do not have to resort to taking such catalysts, but I do see what the original poison is doing to us all and I must speak up because you all don't, eveidentally. I must post this now, with whatever gramatical mistakes are here because I may be cut offline again as I have the last 5 times I've tried to post. Don C.
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 1:06 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, also I am curious, did your husband go through the same kind of hell that your children sre suffering when he was young? The reason I ask is because the processed glutamate poisoning has been in the food supply for about thirty years and not much at first, but stepped up in recent years, and especially the last two years. What we have to eat from the food processors now is as much as 50% processed free glutamates, poison, that is creating kaos in our community, society, country. Funny thing, Canada knows about this. Germany knows about this. But in our free country we are nieve, and uninformed. Anyway I am really curious about what your husband has experienced growing up. Thanks, Don
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 7:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting reading.
I see you say Canada knows about MSG? I am interested if their food is any safer, meaning no or less MSG?
I live an hour from the boarder and it would be worth a trip across.
I know they operate differently on a lot of things.
Examples are prescription drug prices and also a lot of allergy meds that are prescription here are over the counter up there.
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 6:41 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don - Contrary to your posting, I think the majority of us visiting the discussions here DEFINITELY know that " . . . the big problem lies originally in the processed glutamate poisoning." Speaking for myself, I have had no processed foods in my diet for over 2 years but when I am accidentally exposed to an additive, I suffer greatly. I have to do something else to help myself.
You speak of "natural catalysts" to use other than CoQ10, taurine, etc. Well, what exactly are
"natural catalysts" for someone who has eliminated processed foods? How do I get them?
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 7:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Germany and most European countries, with the exception of New Zeland, use tons of glutamates in their foods and on their produce! They are no different from the U.S. in that respect.
Kevin, I would not trust Canadian foods. Read labels and learn where all the hidden sources of MSG are. If you eat pre-packaged, processed foods, it's going to have MSG in it. Stick to natural and organic if you can find it.
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 8:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don- I might add that Mexico is loaded with msg and msg containing chemical compounds in its processed and packaged foods. In fact, I observed even greater use of these in Mexico than in the USA. Remember, they like things spicy. MSG fools the brain into thinking things taste a certain way.
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 9:47 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woops! Didn't mean that New Zealand was in Europe. Meant to say that just about the only safe produce to eat in Europe comes from New Zealand.
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 1:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To Don: I would like to know what your background is, and why it is that you are so convinced that it is only the processed man-made glutamates that cause a problem. Do you have scientific evidence, or is it just antecdotal? Sorry to tell you, but you will never get your message out to the general public if you don't have some sort of "scientific proof" of what you say. That is just the way people are, especially in this country. Are you working on proving your theory? Please let us know.
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 2:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Everyone on this board seems to care and have the best intentions.
I think that's what helps to make it work, every little bit of information helps us all out.
I have gotten to the point of avoiding most processed foods but do intentionally slip and pay the price.
Boy I wish they had a chemical that would help rebuild the blood brain barrier.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 7:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


They're working on it. Anti-inflammatory agents seem to be the key:
Gerry Bush
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 9:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow Roy, you've done it again! Thanks for the above powerful link. It's so very clear and easy to comprehend. Now I can better understand why I stumble and fall without explanation when I ingest msg and other food chemical additives. (A symptom that I have JUST tied to msg, etc.). Information is power.
Are you a teacher? If not, you should be!
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 1:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any idea when that article was written?
My only asking is because it mentions something coming around in a year or so.
Would this not be a nice step in the right direction???
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 2:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did some browsing off of Roys link and found some a few sites that have promising trials going on
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 3:51 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, I think my son was posioned 2 years ago with medications. My son was perfectly healthy up until age 5. He kept getting strep infections. It was like they weren't responding the the antibiotics at all and he kept getting stronger antibiotics from March 1999-Feb 2000. Then he Feb he got a servere infection requiring hospitalization and antibiotics IV for 1 week and he was sent home on ciprofloxin for another 10 days. He was having migraines, nausea(lasting all day), joint pain, dizziness, vision problems, and of course fatigue. Then I put him on the elimination diet and he suddenly improved. I bought Deb's book and it helped me identify what he was reacting to including sulfites. His father reacts to the same things. My son, Ian, was also getting many pain medications that year to help with the migraines, only they weren't helping most of the time. He had a lot of tylenol, motrin, and some tylenol with codiene which only made things worse. I still use Zofran for nausea and it has no noticable side effects but have given up on all pain meds for him except homeopathy. He had a great spring and summer that year and again it started up in the fall of 2000. It didn't seem to matter about the diet he still got sick with all the same symptoms and more neurological symptoms. Again he couldn't go to school. Then in the spring he was normal again and could tolerate more processed foods without reacting. Now it's happened again this fall. He's been sick with the symptoms since about Sept 1. My theory is that he's higly allergic to mold and our mold count increases in the fall making him more sensative to everything. We also found some in our basement last winter. Mold is a big trigger for him. I noticed that right away from the beginning. Maybe from so many anitbiotics I suspect, but he reacts the worse and the longest to mold exposeure. He's being tested for porphyria now. Thats a blood disease with neurological symptoms -severe stomach pain, dizziness, MS like symptoms, and many more. Many people have the genes for this but don't develpe the symptoms and even when they do doctors just aren't educated about porphyria. One doctor told me he thought it was a disease of the skin that made you age. He's partly right. There are several forms of it and it can affect the skin but usually the symptoms are neurological. It is very rare for children to have symptoms even if they have the genetics for it, unless there's a catalyst of some kind such as sulfa medications. I think in my son's case his illness began right after a hard fall on a concrete floor playing with his older brother and cousins. He had a bad migraine after that and then started getting the other symptoms. He's seen 2 neurologists. Usually porphyria symptoms start sometime after puberty usually in the 30's. People with this disease are chemically sensative, not only to MSG but other food chemicals. There are several in my husbands family with chronic illnesses and MCS. Epilepsy is also a symptom. Yes, my husband started having migraines at about puberty. His father died about then and the doctors told him it was stress related, but he never got better until I modified his diet the past year. He took excederin almost every day for many years. He now has permanent tinnitus from all the asparin. He also reacts the same things Ian does and to sulfites. I imagine sulfites have been used a long time. I will know in a few weeks if Ian has porphyria. I still think candida is an issue with him and I'm treating him for it now. We also have to keep cleaning our house for possible mold especially the basement. What I'm saying about Ian is that if there is no mold exposure at all he can tolerate more processed foods. It's easier for us adults to give that food up and eat healthy organic fruits and vegetables, beans, etc.. but it's not so easy on the children as some in this group have found also. Even my olest teenage sons complain daily about our diet(not ever enough red meat and chips,etc.. to please them) so this is a big stress in my life in addition to trying to get Ian well again.

Porphyria site and there are many others too:
Carol H
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 5:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, do you have a dehumidifier? Keeping the relative humidity in the house below 50% keeps mold at bay. I am highly sensitive to mold as well. Low humidity helps kill dust mites too.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 7:33 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I am allergic to molds and keep a dehumidifier running in my basement. I suspect using one would help not only your son, both your husband as well.

The web site below lists molds as just one of many hazards around the home:
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 7:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carol, we just bought one a few weeks ago and use it 24 hours. It helps a lot. We empty about 5 gallons of excess water a day. We just finished inspecting the last room we had left to clean and check for mold and we pulled the carpet and found mold under the carpet so that might be why he's been so sick so long. Mold is a big problem and sometimes hard to find if its not on the walls where you can see it. We took apart the furnace and cleaned the AC coils good last weekend. This mold was under the trim too but not visible on the walls. I'll let you know if he improves.
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 7:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


The above article says it is from a March/April 1997 issue. Since then, it has been found that people on arthritis medications, which are anti-inflammatory agents, have a lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease. I believe that their effect on the blood-brain barrier is the reason:
Roy Piwovar
Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Below is a link about dealing with mold allergies:
Deb A.
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 10:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cheryl, you mentioned that your son's problems began after his fall. Dr. Blaylock, author of Excitotoxins, the Taste That Kills, suggests that injuries to the head, neck, or back can damage the blood brain barriers, allowing more chemicals to reach the brain. He also blames a heightened sensitivity to MSG and other triggers to aging or genetic conditions, also.
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 8:09 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb, I asked his doctor that question because I've always thought his reactions began almost immediately after that fall and he didn't have any idea what I was talking about relating to MSG, that is. He did say that if there was damage at the cellular level that didn't show up on the MRI, there was a good chance it might repair itself with time. I'm hoping that's the case and it does, but since his dad has this too, I'm not really counting on it too much. I hope the diagnostic specialist at Barnes hospital can answer that question. We go there on the 31st.
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 8:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, Thank you for the site. We're scheduled to get mold testing done on Nov 6 and I hope it shows positive this time so he can take the antigen shots. I emailed the people at the site you gave me. They do the RAST testing and Ian's doctor doesn't. I've read it's more reliable than the scratch testing but she said the opposite is true so I don't know. I'll find out on the 6th.
Carol H
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 8:45 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheryl, the RAST testing tests for IGE antibodies. The skin tests test for IGG reaction. Most doctors do the skin test first because of time. They want to be able to tell the patient right away if they should avoid something. In my case, although they started with the skin tests they switched to RAST because it was obvious I was allergic to so many things, they would rather not risk subjecting my body to all those tests when they could simply check a blood sample for up to 15 things. RAST is accurate, safer, but more expensive and much longer to get the results.
Don Campbell
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 11:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello again, and for the last time for a while. I had written six posts here in the last week, but was knocked off line 5 times by my server, and the last disappeared in the msgmyth hyperspace box. I will respond here and say this much; If I explain all that I am seeing to answer all of your questions concerning my last post, it would take up the rest of this boards' length. Cheryl, whatever your husbands and sons are experiencing be it porphypia, candida, or over 100, that's right over one hundred afflictions which are suddenly common today and were not thirty years ago are tied to the bodies' glutamate metabolism, which is closely tied, and interdependent with the immune system. I see that no one is following me here as I have had no response to the things I have been posting. I am going to set up my own website in a couple of months detailing the explanation. To continue, Cheryl, I strive to show scientifically that there is a balance, a preprogrammed balance of the designed machines, which are our bodies, to receive and operate on designed fuel, foods, that were created, designed for it. I believe I am living in such a perverted time that people are groping in the dark, without consideration of the source or engineer behind all of this, thinking, idiotically, that it all evolved or happened by mere circumstance. I am not religious or preaching. I am merely stating LOGIC, which many, many dunderheads don't get. These words may not make sense to you all now, but will in the future. Cheryl, forgive me again for making example here of what is happening, but all of these intrusions of the central nervous system, and the immune system, have one thing in common; they are intrusions of the blood brain barrier and/or the base of the brain, the hypothalamus. Processed glutamates are the direct main cause of the imbalance of both these systems, and the major cause of most of our health problems today. Kevin, I like your objective attitude. What you said about wanting a way to rebuild the blood brain barrier is excellent observation and what is necessary, but not through synthetic catalysts, but the foods we have before us already, that we have been ignoring. It is a shame that we have come to the point in our civilization that we may have damaged our bodies with manufactured poisons to the point that they will not respond unless the antidote or catalyst is also highly processed. To answer you Anonymous (wen, Oct 24, 6:41 AM), yes I said there are natural catalysts and I have only realized a couple which are without scientific proof as of yet (that I know). Everyone that has conversed on this site has said that they are able to eat the tomato, and Tom, you said you can, but only with the catalyst of CoQ10. However the tomato is high in natural glutamates (which you all see as poison, I don't). It is also a source of the natural catalyst for natural glutamate, and it apparently works (as I am seeing in posts here) as a catalyst for processed free glutamates. Others are vitamin C, that is found in fruits (not isolated or processed and put in pills), and believe it or not alcohol. So, you all have a drink and contemplate, (but drink only msg free and sulfite free stuff). I drink the beast (Milwaukee's Best, pure bottom of the barrel trash), there is poison in it, but the natural counters of this form of alcohol are a catalyst. I can't drink any other beer. I know your thoughts, and you think I am nuts. I am going into reclusion to document what I am saying with the scientific evidence and set up my own website. Kevin and all the "Anonymouses", When I said that Germany and Canada are aware of the problem, I should have said that the individuals there are more aware of what they choose to put in to themselves. Germany has been more environmentally conscience, and has sanctioned, within their law, living with the land, and is based much in small farm communities. Canada actually gives more freedom to the individual and allows the people to kill themselves, instead of the doctors and scientists, like here. But the good side is that the individual is more aware. Yes Kevin, there are more sources of nonprocessed foods in Canada, and I have seen on PBS the groups of elderly that pay to take busses to Canada to get medicines that are illegal or too expensive here. However, in the organic farmers market there, the situation is the opposite and the exchange is that we must pay more with the American dollar than what it cost here, but then they have more variety. Yes the Canadians, and the Germans do also have their major food sources polluted with msg, as do Japan, Russia, China, Europe, and of course Mexico (which is a great victim of our whole capitalistic world). Should not all of this make you all want to stand up and say something? I will not intervene here anymore for a long while. I will be working on taking some action. As I said before, I have plans. If anybody else should wake up and want to assist, please email me at I am also posting under "Sharing scientific info." under "Texturizes vegetable.......". Please read. That post will go into some details of the argument for what the battle plan should be, what to do to make the world know. I will also be detailing on my site the evidence that the EPA (which is controlled by the food, (chemical and drug) companies, has known about what processed glutamates are doing to us, and how it has been covering it up. There is much more going on here. Many groups have been trying to fight the EPA and appeal to our government for many, many years concerning many other poisons in our foods, like aspertame, and why is it still in foods?. The situation is beyond the recognition of those posting here, but it needs be within such. Don Campbell PS; mold reactions are only a symptom of the problem which has its origin in the basic glutamate metabolism of the central nervous system which controls the immune system. The doctors keep treating the symptoms and not the cause. Also to awnser the last Anonymous; you contradict yourself. Read what you said. And as to my background, I am a sufferer of this poisoning. I will take up my own sites space to tell more.
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 3:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good luck on the journey.
Can I ask what type of back ground you have and how long have you realized that MSG is a poison?
Are you from the scientific community, or just struggling like the rest of us?
Don Campbell
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anon, it occurs I should answer you. I've been poor for the last 10 years, refused college in hopes of getting self employed. Got distracted by a couple things, women, children (not mine, hers). Divorced now, thanks to sickness from hell. More of my story under "Scientific Info", under "Monsanto ...". I am not from the scientific community. I am just another sufferer. And I do. I am living at poverty level and communicating from a computer that my Father bought me. I have been just struggling to cope for years. I have lost four jobs because of having heart attacks, not total heart arrests, but msg induced attacks that disabled me for 30 to 45 minutes. I would return to the job the next week and was no longer needed. I have felt 100% better for the last few months except when I get poisoned, and it gets worse as I am finding with each poisoning which goes further into the central nervous system. Anyway, I am not a certified scientist, but I evidently see what no one is connecting with the info. that we have. So, I will be certified shortly. I get back to compiling it. I'll be back here in two months with it. PS- More importantly, my aunt died, needlessly, from aspartame poisoning, which the EPA, the same EPA that is PLACING the msg poison in our food, has allowed for years now, knowing what it does.. My wife and stepson were disabled to the point that it was unbearable. MS and ADD. I am watching everyone around me suffer and they do not know why. And, contrary to what you will say people, they do not know now. And I will, I will wake people up to what is going on.
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don Campbell
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 8:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Na Na Na Na Neah Na. Thank you so much for the encouragement Mr., or Miss positve. You might be catching on. They won't believe just one but they will believe those joined together with the attitude that communicates that something is wrong, big time. They will understand when they understand that the protective agency that is supposed to be keeping our food safe is the same bunch that is selling us the poison and then selling us the remedies for it. I do have a plan. For anyone seeing and agreeing and that wants to participate I am at
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 8:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone know of a doctor that can help with this condition. We had another bad experience with another doctor today. I'm really discouraged now and don't think I'll be able to find one to help my son. I always leave crying thinking I'll never take him to another doctor again. This doctor even went so far as to say "well I don't imgaine foods are really his problem. I've seen many cases when people were hospitalized and given the suspicious food along with a placebo and there was no difference in their reactions." He went on to say the symptoms I described such as joint pain, dizziness, migraines, vision problems are all typical childhood complaints and we were just going to have to ignore them and get on with our lives. He went on to say that I'm just an over worried mother who must have nothing better to do than read about these things on the internet and panic that my son has this problem which really doesn't exist at all. He was a real jerk! And we wasted our whole day driving there and back! He also said as for the mold in our basement that since the others in my family weren't sick it probably wasn't making Ian sick either. He's an idiot! Another thing he said about the stool testing we had done last winter to check for candida is that it was an unreliable lab and everyones got candida so it can't be causing any of his symptoms and those labs put out false information.
Has anyone found any good doctors who actually knows about this and other chemical sensitivities?
Are there no doctors who can help?
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 10:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Try ACAM. Just type in the 4 letters on a web search and it should come up. Go to doctor's search, type in your city and state, and hopefully you will find a doctor who has experience in the area you need. Mine has a speciality in yeast syndrome, as well as other areas. The several letters at the bottom of each doctor's entry are their specialities, and the key to the letters is at the bottom of the list of doctors. I hope you can locate one in your area. If you can't find one this way, let me know where you live and I will ask my doctor (Gilbert Manso-Houston, TX.). I know this doctor understands about yeast, but we have not discussed foods yet. That's the next visit. He did encourage me to take the pills he prescribed out of the gel-cap, as I got a migraine after just 3 pills. That was encouraging. We're going in the right direction in the doctor-patient relationship.
I know there are a few good doctors out there that won't rest until they find a cause for symptoms, and not just say it's all in our heads. Probably all of us here know people who think we're nuts. Let them think that. I know I feel much better when I watch very carefully what I eat. The naturopath food testing helped so much to identify which foods I was still reacting to. Don't give up, and good luck.

P.S. I'm sure the doctor was correct when he said that everyone has candida. It's a matter of the degree to which we are affected.

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