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Just starting to realize how much of ...

Battling the MSG Myth » "Help! I've Just Made the MSG Connection" » Just starting to realize how much of this is MSG and HELP « Previous Next »

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Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 10:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara here -

I have been working on revamping my diet for a few months (AGAIN) and well Thanksgiving came and although I had been cutting back on MSG, that turkey did a big number on me. I have lots of health issues and they flared big time.

I have been trying to read a lot of information here and basically I am overwhelmed. It is hard to know where to start. I read the week diet on the main page and will work on that first but was already close (well closer than a few months ago) except for that big bird that we started on Saturday(our T-day was late). I already told my husband yesterday I was done eating it and went back to FF chicken breast today.

My current vice is "spicy" - BBQ sauce and I am sure it has MSG in it. I suspect some of the supplements I take do too especially since many are gelatin capsules.

I have alternating higher than normal and lower than I like BP. I have palpitations. I have lots of ear pain and sinus pain / pressure with tinnitus and dizziness. My mouth burns if I am around bleach or strong onions / garlic or wood especially cedar. I am going through "benzo" withdrawal and it hasn't been fun and with it all of this has been flaring. My brain isn't working well. I used to have one. My vision is strange at times. A lot of this can be benzo withdrawal symptoms but the MSG has made it worse so I had been working on this already.

My diet has been pretty bland except for that nasty BBQ sauce - usually chicken breast (natural), potatoes, veggies, salad, banana, GF juice, PB and rice cakes each day. Not a lot of variation in that. I cut the MSG laden Salad dressing out a month or so ago. Eating out became rarer and rarer and would flare symptoms usually when we did. I would fix him things like Mac and Cheese but I have been trying to stay gluten and dairy free. I cut out beef ages ago but do eat pork. I will eat wild salmon but not much other fish.

I need a mentor. Any volunteers? sara_lives at msn dot com
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 3:50 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you are getting a pretty good handle on things already. You can probably make your own BBQ sauce to satisfy that craving. When I need to quiet things down I go really basic: organic chicken, wild salmon, fruits and veggies (preferably organic) washed well. Many make their own bread although some stay away from wheat and grain - you probably know if you need to avoid them. I didn't think supplements were affecting me until I quit taking all of them, then I could see a difference. Do you have Deb's book? It has a lot of great info and recipes. You can do searches on this board, but it may be easier to have it all in one place, in a book.
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 8:44 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the reply,

Deb's book is in my cart at Amazon waiting to go over $25 (I keep thinking about getting prime but haven't). I did order Schwarz's book yesterday as it wasn't straight from Amazon. I haven't ordered Blaylock's yet but my reading ability is rather sparse and has been that way for years.

I plan to dump out the gelatin capsules and see if that helps. I need to read labels better but there are a few I need to take which might mean finding safer versions of (liver stuff). One of my Rxs is in capsules too.

I know I have been searching for certain foods here and seeing what I can find - long tedious process. I tried pumpkin seeds search last night as that is my newest snack as it is loaded with magnesium. I am eating roasted now (unsalted) but have raw coming tomorrow in a package.

I am also wondering about beans and looked some of that up too. I found these Santa Fe refried beans that are just dehydrated beans and salt. I expect most canned beans are out and know the Van Camp baked were a bad reaction (not sure I had much of a reaction to the Bush's). I also like chili beans and bet they are loaded.

I also wonder about nuts and guess that is today's searching.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 1:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, I sent you an email so check your spam box if you don't get it.

Eden Organic beans are safe. I buy local pecans in the shell (you can buy them shelled, in whole shell or pre-cracked shells - I like the pre-cracked shells because it is such a great bargain).....We also have had great luck with the raw nuts from the Indian market. I wish I could find some safe pistachios, though.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 2:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the email came and I have yet to digest it - had to be gone this morning / early afteroon for an appointment and shopping so I didn't have a chance to read and digest it before we left as it came in when I was shutting down - hopefully I didn't blow it too much in buying groceries but we live in a small remote community and were able to get to a larger supermarket today

I see an OT for trigger point therapy (appointment today) and we have talked before about MSG and she was interested in the information on this site.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 3:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, I have written to your email too, subject line will say: MSG monosodium glutamate -
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 4:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kristy and Sara,
Some of the Eden organic canned bean products contain kombu (seaweed) which is very high in FGA. Please check their website for product contents if you have any questions. MSG was originally derived from seaweed by the Japanese before it was made artifically.
The word kombu is not well known to Americans and provides an easy way for manufacturers to add FGA to food and still appear to have a clean label.
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 4:28 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks all - I now have 2 emails to digest -

still dealing with today's adventure - know part of what is cooking in the oven is taboo - but I did load up on FF chicken at the store and have 2 whole ones baking right now

discovered the Maries coleslaw dressing is a no/ no and not surprised but I like balsamic italian and think it is fairly safe but spices are listed so who knows - it is probably safer than others (it is a mix I bought at amazon)

Hoteru - yes I know there is kombu in those salt free beans and was wondering about that before even before this latest MSG experience (for example I am concerned about arsenic which I know is in kelp) - I know I can buy them at an online vendor

I don't like my local (30 miles away) health food store so I am always looking for online groceries (safe and reasonably priced and cheap shipping options) - I do live in a remote one grocery community which does have limited offerings of the better foods

I am getting more confident about all of this thanks to you who have reached out to me - I have done the same on other support boards when I was the knowledgable person

Deb's book was ordered but hasn't shipped yet - I have spent time searching various things here and not done searching by any means but I did find a long list where someone had indexed the foods in the book and save the url for it I hope
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 12:57 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara,

It sounds like you have already been given some great advice. Medications in capsules always make me really sick. I check with the pharmacist first, then take the medication out of the capsule and mix it in orange juice or a tsp. of applesauce. Yes, most of them taste bad but it's better than the MSG reaction. Orange Juice has been the best for me in hiding the medicine taste.

I just started trigger point therapy through my pain management doctor last week and have seen some good results so far. He injected small amounts of a steroid into 7 of my trigger points around my skull that were very large and swollen. Because they were all so swollen and tender and based on my symptoms, he thinks they are the cause of my headaches and some of my facial nerve pain.

I'll go back in 2 weeks for more trigger point injections and to reassess if it is helping. If the trigger points are the cause of the pain, then I'll be looking into more options for helping to keep them under control. I'd love to hear how your therapy goes (I'll send you an email).

Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many thanks to those who have posted and emailed. I am getting closer to making that week trial diet a reality. I do have some questions however.

What about beverages? I do drink decaf coffee, black tea, decaf tea - how will this fit in?

How strict should I be on the veggies? I can drop carrots and potatoes (don't do beets) but what frozen can be done this week? I have a few bags of Safeway brand snap peas, snow peas, peas, and some C&W / Birdseye petite beans. Can I use them or should I get fresh - organic will be hard unless I can get an online order in (I am looking at Diamond Organics but they wanted to charge shipping onto the Sampler price which is supposed to include shipping - I figured for a one week thing I could splurge and will call them in the morning and see what gives on the shipping charge).

What about dried beans this first week? Not allowed?

I may have more questions later.
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 6:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beverages: for me caffeine is also an excitotoxin, so if I drink any decaf coffee or tea, I limit it to one cup in the am.

Veggies: I have no problem with frozen as long as it contains just veggies

Dried beans: might be questionable. I would suggest avoiding the first couple of weeks as they are usually high in glutamate when cooked (long enough to make tender). I don't have a problem with them now, but you may, so you may not want to take the chance (initially).
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 8:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know caffeine triggers more - I just get bored with plain water and had cut way back on caffeine. Today I did my full caffeine load typical of these past few weeks - will see.

The veggies I have are just veggies - maybe salt on some of them - will have to look but no sauce or butter on them.

I want to do dried beans (can cook myself I hope) and nuts / seeds but will put it off.

Today was my first real day. Brown rice, bone in FF chicken breast, veggies and salad with home made Italian dressing (herbs, jarred garlic (might be bad - didn't look it up), olive oil and I had some organic vinegars I used). As I said above I did typical caffeine load. I will still have GF juice (Florida Naturals) and fruit tonight. (the juice might be bad too but all of this is less than yesterday's foods)

It wasn't a good day - not sure food set things off - but things were set off.

We did a grocery run and the store was pretty bleak with produce I was looking for. I was looking for a nice cauliflower and they didn't have any; the one organic head looked bad too. I got a big head of cabbage instead. I picked up some grapefruit to eat instead of juice later this week and some bean sprouts, cukes, peppers, onions. I picked up some Tillamook Co/Jack cheese - will see if I want to eat it later on. I did find a can of Muir Glen puree but it has citric acid in it but that isn't for this week.

Diamond organics is now charging shipping for their "sample" packages so that priced me out of the ballpark. I am checking out a couple other places: Melissas and boxedgreens. For now I will deal with what I can find locally.

Dried beans, nuts and potatoes will probably be the first things I add.

I dumped the open bottle of V8 in the fridge (been open a long time) and plan to give the bottles in the pantry to the food bank as well as the Safeway broth that both of us got sick on. Giving away poisonous food sounds criminal but that is what they want.

I am not sure still how much my husband is with me on this. Yesterday he ate some of the brown rice I cooked to have on hand. I did fix him ground beef today and he made a burger. He had cole slaw and will not part away from his bottled salad dressing I expect and not lose his precious sun chips. I offered to fix him a potato or mac and cheese today but he did pass on it. It was the box of Rice a Roni this summer that got me more aware that MSG was triggering my palpitations.

Oops - citric acid in the garlic - next time fresh or skip it.
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 11:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara, Ive just been reading your post with interest. I live in a small town and struggle with produce much the same as you do. Im fortunate that it is a farming area and most produce is local and a call to the farm is all thats needed to find out what is sprayed with what. So far ive been pleasantly surprised mostly. I just dont do packets and make everything from scratch, right down to stock cubes!!! ( they involve simmering left over chicken carcus wiht veggies and herbs and i know that wont suit everyone due to the long cooking process but it works for us).

It was your comment about your husband that prompted me to write. My husband was reluctant to go msg free. Very reluctant. We started this whole thing because of our youngest daughter who has severe reactions to msg and all its many aliases. He understood the importance for her but didnt see the relevance for him. Well after many months of cooking him a different meal to what i was cooking for myself and the kids it wore thin. I took a mad one and cleared the cupboards of every box and packet.(I let him keep his heinz beans....that would have been a step too far!!) Asked that he tried for two weeks and if he didnt like the food i would point him in the direction of the shop and kitchen and he could work away. ( i was very fed up with his whole reluctance by this stage!! hehe) Well he is now a convert!! In fact he is more careful than any of us. Within a few weeks he joined the gym, took up karate, laughed and smiled a lot more and just had so much more energy. Hes a new man :-). He is also slowly losing weight which he is happy about. So my suggestion with a reluctant husband would be to get your own eating under control first and then just ask him to try for a set period of time and im pretty sure he will get it when he feels so much better himself. Niether me nor my husband considered ourselves to be particularly sensitive to msg, but we have both seen dramatic improvements in our health and well being.

You mention being bored with just water to drink. I quite often drink hot water with lemon, ginger and a tiny bit of honey. Thats my hot drink as opposed to tea or coffee. Took a while to stop missing the coffee but now i enjoy that just as much. Thats not to say i dont enjoy a nice coffee when out,i do!!
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 4:54 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, I wanted to suggest ginger tea, too. We peel a piece of ginger root and chop it up and simmer in water. Sweeten with organic sugar or local honey (not Great Value brand!). We also drink mint tea from the volunteer mint in my backyard and the loose herbal teas from Mountain Rose Herbs. We even make homemade soft drinks using ginger or vanilla simple syrup and "spritzers" from fruit juice and sparkling water. We've added kefir smoothies since we found a source for raw milk, too. YUM! Try to wean yourself off caffeine. Most things are decaffeinated using chemical processes so they are usually worse for your body than the naturally caffeinated options, but caffeine is very hard on your adrenals.

I would also suggest fresh onion and garlic for now. It's a lot more work, but will help you get "clean" so you can figure out what things in your store are safe. You might soon be able to go to granulated garlic or onion, but for now stick to fresh. In my case, we enjoyed the flavor of fresh so much that we have stuck with it even though there are other options that are safe for us.

Also, beware of even organic vinegars - especially balsamic. Caramel color is bad news and is often found in balsamic vinegar. Also, even organic vinegars can be really high in free glutamic acid. I would also suggest you avoid sprouts for now. I believe all of them are washed with citric acid since a food poisoning outbreak was linked to sprouts some time ago. It's ridiculously easy to grow your own, though.....
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 9:05 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I grow some of my own sprouts - have a batch in process right now but didn't think I had enough when I couldn't find a nice head of cauliflower and I wasn't sure turnips and radishes were okay this first week (radishes at local store are bad usually anyhow but turnips are good - we eat them sliced / raw). Beets looked good yesterday but I never buy them however they were the "forbidden fruit".

I have problems with "strong" odors that react with my trigeminal nerve pathways. Onions and garlic odors both trigger pain and raise in blood pressure. There are other things that cause this reaction so I avoid smelling these things as much as I can. I can eat onions - sweet raw but strong only cooked. I can eat small amounts of garlic.

I had to stop cooking with garlic for the most part because of this. I had one of these spasm incidents yesterday - bad one. They can last more than a day and 3 or 4 days isn't unusual. When I was getting them daily they just would never disappear.

I am not sure what ginger would do right now as the nerves are very sensitive. I had some herbal teas I liked but wasn't sure it wasn't causing these pain spasms so I stopped drinking it. It had ginger in it. I don't know if the trigeminal nerve would sense ginger as toxic or not like it senses garlic / onions. I am still discovering what all the triggers are.
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 11:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I looked at the balsamic vinegar - no caramel coloring listed - 3 ingredients - all were organic and grape related - it is Safeway brand.

I guess no salad dressing for a few days (garlic problem) as I also have no lemon juice but cheap bottled stuff. I do have some good bottled lime juice I hope (Lakewood.

In searching last night I searched for "just tomatoes" brand things - didn't find anything but this morning when searching for freeze dried fruits I did find a thread about them - concern about undisclosed sulfites. I am looking for safe freeze dried foods - fruits, veggies, chicken etc. to have on hand for emergencies as well as rotate into the diet. I have a few just tomatoes brand things but will have to wait and test them.

I did look more at the Honeyville grain site (Emily had mentioned it in her posts) and saw some of the potatoes were sulfited and others were not. Safe potatoes is something I want to get eventually and I had already been looking for that. I may be crazy but we dealt with a 5 day outage 3 years ago and lost the contents of the fridge and freeze and well, canned chili on bread (my husband rode his bike to the store one day for bread and bananas and they actually had them) wasn't an exciting dinner that last night. His diet that day was baked beans, tuna sandwiches, and canned pears, probably a few more things but you get the message. I do have a few things on hand now but they might not be "safe".
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 12:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara, I haven't been able to find any dried potatoes that I don't react too (but I haven't searched too hard). But I do just fine with the Honeyville Grain freeze dried fruits and their freeze dried peas and corn.
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 3:42 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi sara, i would really like to hear more about this trigeminal nerve reaction thing from you... reading your post made things lite up for me, i think i might understand what youre talking about, but could never figure out any kind of connection before

my husband gets crazy moodswings/bipolar reactions/ migraines from raw or cooking onions of any kind. he cant tolerate leeks or scallions either. even the smell is enough to set off a serious reaction, if anything, sometimes ive wondered if the odor could possibly be the worst part?

he can tolerate some cooked garlic and young shallot, altho older shallots will set him off (not quite as badly)... ive noticed that the older shallots smell much more like an onion while the younger they are, the more they smell/taste like garlic. he seems to tolerate stewed onion ok (ie like in jarred salsas- more or less tasteless) but i cant cook it at home for sure. raw or cooked chives seem fine, and of course they smell like garlic too...

nothing ever showed on any allergy tests (scratch- rast- elisa/act) so ive never known what it could possibly be to cause such strong reactions, in fact in all the years of researching online, asking drs, and getting friends opinions... ive only ever encountered one other person who could relate to this, and they had no idea what the problem was either! (that person said his sensitivity came on suddenly, lasted several years, then disappeared overnite...???)

i would love to know ANYTHING youve been able to learn about this frustrating problem, how you were able to identify what was going on, whether youve always been sensitive or if it came on suddenly later on, does it ever improve, etc... thanx!!
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 4:14 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this is kind of a summary of things I recall reading last summer when I was trying to figure out what was going on - I have burning mouth syndrome too - I have yet to get this whole thing under control - this might all be related to benzo use (as Rxed) or could be from an accidental poisoning - hard to know - I was very sick 3 1/2 years ago when all of this burning mouth and pain - however I have been chemically sensitive for years

the trigeminal nerve which runs into the nose senses toxic "odors" - onions can trigger it as well as other toxic things (bleach is a trigger for me as well) - with this reaction my BP raises, my pain in my ears gets worse (primarily left) and the burning mouth start flaring - this started about 3 1/2 years ago and it was about a year or so ago I discovered onions / garlic was part of this trigger and stopped cooking with them daily

this is from one reference I found last summer - I found something that said onions crying was trigeminal too but don't see it now in where I was looking

Detection of chemical stimuli in the nose is not limited to the olfactory nerve, but involves the trigeminal nerve and its afferents which may also play a role in this condition. Trigeminal free nerve endings in the nose and mouth detect noxious chemicals and reflexively initiate protective responses including cessation of breathing, constriction or dilatation of the airways, reduction in heart rate and cardiac output, constriction of most blood vessels (except capillaries in the head), increased epinephrine release, changes in blood pressure and efforts to withdraw (Silver and Maruniak, 1981). This is a powerful reflex which serves an obvious protective role. Most familiar is the trigeminal reflex response to smelling salts. Apparently trigeminal responses eau occur with non-irritating stimuli. Thus far, no odor has been found that stimulates the trigeminal nerve alone or the olfactory nerve alone (Silver and Maruniak 1981) making study of either system in isolation difficult. Potentially both play a role in chemical sensitivity.

Page 145 of Multiple Chemical Sensitivities: Addendum to Biologic Markers in Immunotoxicology (1992) Commission on Life Sciences (CLS)

Silver, W. L. and Maruniak, J.A. 1981. Trigeminal chemoreception in the nasal and oral cavities. Chemical Senses 6(4):295-305.
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 4:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My GABA receptors are screwed up and need to heal still. GABA is calming, glutamate is excitory so if I can cut back on the exciting of the nerves maybe I can lessen some of the flaring and pain. My nervous system is in overload and I suspect I am seeing many of the symptoms mentioned on the main page because of too much glutamate.

My goal with trying to revamp my diet to lessen glutamates is to try to also lessen some of the nerve flaring. I also suspect it isn't just the trigeminal nerve that is a problem but it was one I was aware of.
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 8:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, I think you're right to try to cut back on the exciting of the nerves. I often look back on my journey and think of that first few weeks like I was one big raw nerve....Luckily, after keeping on the straight and narrow with diet and refining it more by removing little things here and there that caused reactions, we finally got on a more even keel. You'll soon find that you aren't having all these overlapping, low-level and full-blown reactions like you are right now.

I wanted to also say that Honeyville Grains has a lot of safe items for even the corn allergic. Since most sulfites are made from corn, that means that there are at least some items that are sulfite-free. I would like to stock up myself because we are so dependent on our freezers and refrigerator. I fear a power outage in the worst way.
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 10:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This reaction was probably triggered by the toilet cleaner I used. I need to find safer products but in this damp climate (I live on the coast) we need something to keep mold under control too so bleach based products do get used around the house.

The reaction from yesterday isn't as bad tonight; it was pretty painful last night at this time. This is such a bizarre problem even the neurologist I saw couldn't explain it but agreed there was trigeminal nerve problems. He said to take a ton of gabapentin and I couldn't handle that much. I would love to be able to get off it.

I can tolerate some corn just not in excess. Of course that might be wrong and I really can't tolerate any but will see.

Day 2 went okay diet wise. I realize Day 1 wasn't exactly on the diet but it was better than day before was. The sprouts were home grown today (I use GSE in my rinse water - self watering sprouter) but I only have enough for one more day until I can harvest the next batch probably Sunday or Monday. That is why I bought some bean sprouts yesterday. I ate my salad "naked".

As far as power outages, this was a fun experience camping in the house. We had no heat or ability to even heat up a cup of water - I could have gotten matches from neighbors but didn't. I am more prepared for next time. We were lucky it wasn't that cold out so the house only got down to around 50. The area was paralyzed for several days - no roads in or out and not much open to get anything. A lot of people had generators and between the exhaust from them and the wood burning stoves, my asthma flared.
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Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 11:15 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara,

I took 3300mg a day of Gabapentin for much of this past year for my facial nerve pain as well. I understand how challenging it is to be on such a high dosage.

From an MSG perspective, I found different generic brands of Gabapentin were easier to digest than others. The 100mg capsules were the easiest on my stomach (I took the powder out of the gelcap and mixed it with orange juice).

Yes, the side effects are awful from the drug. I hope you are able to find a better option and wean off of it if it's giving you a lot of grief.

That's great you've had 2 good diet days- keep it up!
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Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 12:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I never was on that high of a dose. I found I couldn't handle more than 300 mg at a time so even when I was taking 1800 mg I was taking it 6 times a day. I could not function anything over about 1200 mg. I have the 100 mg capsules I have been dumping into my mouth this past few days. I know I have two different generic brands here in my cache - this is one made by brand name ppl I think.

I also don't do OJ -- too sweet for me and prefer GF juice. The Safeway brand "eating right" is a no no it appears. I don't have any right now and won't buy more but I keep the bottles for storing distilled water. I am drinking Florida Naturals right now.

I need Mg and was taking it by nuts, seeds, beans. I do have some trisalts but prefer it in food form. The straight Mg supplement I have I don't tolerate well - need to check out more on it - it Mg oxide - I did check that far. I snuck some pumpkin seeds last night after posting - bad me. My research today will be more on Mg foods and if worse comes to worse I will take the trisalts but I don't like all the calcium in it.

I heard back from boxed greens last night - looks more and more reasonable. Their shipping is atrocious (and I am not sure how recyclable their containers are) but this is what I found out -

Our box size is 15 X 20 X 10. Each Seasonal box contains 12 to 13 items that will consist of 3 fruit items, tomatoes, lettuce, potatoes, onions, 3 cooking vegetables and the last 2-3 items may be celery, cucumbers, radishes, avocados, cabbage or perhaps spinach. Our smallest box is the Individual which has approximately 13-14 pounds of produce. There are larger sizes of Seasonal boxes that will contain the same items but there will be larger portions. If you need additional information, please contact me at (number deleted) and I'll be glad to help further with your gift selection.
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Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 8:49 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay as I said last night (then blew it) diet has been good all day. Today I should do better as I put away the pumpkin seeds so they aren't sitting right here.

I figured I can get Mg in a few days with "premature" sprouts. I have some garbanzo and pea seeds for sprouting and I never did like the garbanzo sprouts but eating the soaked "beans" and peas will be a good source of Mg. They are still a veggie then, and I think the problem with beans and dried peas is heating them which this won't do.
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Posted on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 5:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As I go through this week, what can I expect? Will I find some relief by the end or not?

I ask because the mind appears a little clearer today - will see if it last. However there might have been a flare of symptoms after eating our main meal today.

I gather I need to reintroduce / try things no more than once a week once I start doing that.
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Posted on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 5:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara! I just wanted to add to all of this, if you are still looking for another book from Amazon, you might want to try Pure &'s a vegan MSG-free and gluten-free cookbook. I realize you're not vegetarian, but you did mention (I think? There's a lot of posts here!) something about avoiding gluten, so this book might be helpful. I am vegetarian and survive using this cookbook! It has really good salad dressing recipes too...and I would think you could adapt most of these recipes to include meat if you wanted. Anyways, here's the link:

I love this cookbook. It's wooooooonderful.
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Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 9:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Annie- thank you for the book recommendation. My 3 yr. old daughter has an allergy to dairy, soy and eggs so we use a lot of vegan recipes. I'll order this book you recommended- thank you!

Have you tried Vegan Cupcakes take over the world? or Vegan Cookies invade your cookie jar? Both are excellent.
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Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 8:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I put the cook book on my wish list - you can look inside on amazon and I will browse it some more before deciding.

Deb's book is to be here tomorrow I hope - it was due here Saturday according to amazon but didn't make it. It did hit Kent Smartpost yesterday. The other MSG related book I ordered I have no idea when it will come. It was mailed on the 2nd.

I am plowing away at this. I am reacting to something which is probably either Vit D supplements I reinstated this past few days or Draper Valley chicken. I would tend to believe it is the Vitamin D as I have tried 2 different brands in the past few days but really don't know yet. I eat the last of the Draper Valley chicken tomorrow and won't do Vitamin D. Of course I realize it could be anything.

I have had these reactions before but no reason to think it is the overall diet when if anything the glutamate load is lower. The palpitations are less it appears with this but I am not seeing a lot of other improvements yet.

I have searched a lot on the forum and many times come up empty on specific brands of food but also do see many of my symptoms are experienced by others.
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Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 10:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi sara, ive got to tell you... draper valley chickens make me sick!! i mean, really, really SICK.
my body reads their poultry as pure poison. my hubby & sons all get stomach aches from their birds too.

Draper is very popular here in the PacNW becoz it is "locally grown" which OF COURSE we know that has to mean its healthy, ha ha...
but if you have ever really examined one of those poor carcasses you will be able to see that those are NOT healthy birds by standard. if anything those poor things were walking death the whole time they were 'alive'... that is, im doubtful most of them ever actually walked at all.

the bones are almost totally hollow! there are bony spurs all over the place, and they seem to be missing some bones while there is massive overgrowth of others. especially vertebrae- its usually fused into one crumbly piece.
also, there is always massive amounts of a strange, thick, yellow sticky fatty stuff all under the skin & even into the tissues, making the meaty portion look yellowish or orangish and sticky, even after it is cooked. any giblets, when they are actually included, look hepatic and sick as well...

it is so hard to find affordable safe meats around here (probly anywhere, anymore), but after my family had experienced enough after-dinner stomach aches, i finally got fed up with "cheep chicken" and quit buying Draper for good.

of course, i went from that to FosterFarms, and that's not much better :-( ... just back around Thanksgiving i had a bad chem reaction from one bite of roasted skin from a FF chicken. theirs have some of the same bone and fat issues as well, tho at least not as bad... (not yet...) at least we were able to eat the meat only without bad tummy aches, when i carefully scraped off every bit of skin & fat before cooking... still had wind afterward tho

so last nite i tried something new- served a Pacific Village chicken from New Seasons market... cost twice but you know i think it made up for it in edibility. no one got sick after, i didnt have any of my wierd chem reactions and i ate quite a bit of the skin this time. the giblets were large and healthy looking and all the bones seemed to be in the right place and the right shape & size. no spurs or fusion, no sticky meat or yellow fat everywhere. when i pulled it from the oven it was swimming in a pool of actual gelatin like i vaguely still remember chicken should, and hardly any fat anywhere- even the stubby little tail had meat for the kitty :-)

they are still "vegetarian fed", which means corn & soy and so not safe for the intensely sensitive (like kristy's fam)... but other than that, i am happy to be able to give Pacific Village a thumbs up

as far as Draper goes tho... i would definitely run far and fast from ever touching that stuff again!
you have to wonder after awhile, if eating 'sick' meat makes for sick people too... i mean, i have no idea how to even research it, but its possible there could be long term physical problems transmitted in some way from eating those birds, i think.
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Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 10:17 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had seen you had posted a negative on them before and was hoping you would respond. It is all we can get where I live - one grocery - captive customers. At Safeway when I make it there I can get Foster Farms and have some in the freezer. I am not sure if the Draper Ranger is better or not - many times I have bought it but I wasn't watching for reactions then.

I am looking in the future when travel to Safeway isn't an option or if Safeway or FF changes (our WM is going to be a super WM and I know where I lived before I didn't even dream of buying meat at WM - hopefully this will not drive Safeway out), of ordering online somewhere. I have a place bookmarked but never ordered from them.
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Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 11:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i didnt realize Ranger is also Draper Valley... i have bought those on occasion at Trader Joes. i am going there tomorrow... i think i will pick one up to see what happens- im feeling like a mad scientist again ha haaaaa
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 1:49 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Draper Valley Farms' web site boasts "Our chickens are fed only corn, soy and vitamins", a "100% vegetarian diet of corn and soybean flakes made in our own mill located in Chehalis, WA".

If their chickens looked sick there was a good reason. There's a good chance that both the corn and soy are GMO. Per the link below, "In lab studies the death rate in GMO fed chickens was double that of non-GMO fed chickens".
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 6:57 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i'll bet! ...and so Pacific Valley being an organic brand, would be fed non-GM grain, maybe?

also, i saw a vid on youtube about stuff that goes on in mass poultry farming that talked (bragged actually) about doing things to the birds to make them grow Extra large/Extra fast (faster turnover= more profits, of course)- bet thats got a lot to do with the bad bones
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 11:52 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oops, i just got back from TJs and realized i spaced on the Ranger chicken... maybe just as well...
but i will eventually try another one & post our results when i do

and my sympathies to you sara- it is really tough being captive to a lone market...
ironically tho, my visit to trader joes today kinda served to highlight this yet again as an issue i think we are pretty much all facing, that no matter how much "choice" we might appear to have, its really all moot when so much of it is only going to cause illness if we give in and indulge :-( boo little guy was looking longingly at the row after row of gingerbread cookie kits and other holiday specialties, and i soooo wanted to be able to get him some fun treet, but i must have looked at 20 different packages in a vain hope that any of it might be tolerable...
oh for the days when white flour & sugar was the worst of it, eh?
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 1:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bo'nana, you said, "no matter how much "choice" we might appear to have, its really all moot when so much of it is only going to cause illness" and truer words have not been spoken. I often feel like a survivor of a shipwreck dying of thirst in a raft surrounded by salt water. :-( It is so disheartening to go into a grocery store and see the illusion of tons of food, when I know that very little of it is even edible (we're allergic to corn but really nobody should be eating most of those chemical concoctions....).

Just last week I was reading a post on the avoiding corn forum about making sugar cookies and a Mom wanted some safe "sprinkles".....I think it was finally decided that maybe homemade candied citrus peels would look nice and be safe for color and sugar in the raw would be nice but not colorful. The search for corn-free candy and treats dominates the forum every holiday. There are some really inventive moms on is even making a gingerbread house using dried fruit as decorations. As for us, the only store-bought treat we can find is Reed's Ginger candy chews and Reed's Premium ginger brew. They will certainly be part of my kid's Xmas along with many homemade treats.......
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 6:34 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We all make choices and have to accept the consequences. Some are easier than others.

For me, I made a choice to move out here on the coast. The air quality is so much better than an urban environment or the agricultural based community I was living in. In doing this, my shopping options are limited (as well as other things like medical care). However, breathing pure air was pretty crucial in my decision.

I left where my job was in limbo (big mess - no need to discuss it here but tenure wasn't enough to protect me from what they were doing to me) - retirement in limbo because of the false accusations against me and had a medical provider who was screwing up my case royally, and he was a med school prof (but at least he believed what nasty stuff they were doing to me).

I figure in time (and am not sure when that will be) whatever I buy will come delivered to the door via USPS, UPS, or FedEx. If I can find online what I need at a reasonable price (oh, isn't that the problem), I will be able to obtain it. Money is an issue as it is with everyone as our income is limited and there isn't much opportunity to earn more. Getting out of where I was without too many more hoops was important.

Okay, I was bad. I did eat the Draper Valley chicken but also had some "bad" salad dressing. I am paying the price for the salad dressing I think as this reaction isn't at all like those of the previous 3 days so it was probably the Vitamin D that triggered those reactions. This is a headache one and not the radical increase in nerve pain, the burning mouth, and muscle spasms in my ear. There is not an increase in burning mouth which had been there the previous 3 days at least now 3 hours after eating. There was an increase in headache within the hour. Everything else was okay I think - had eaten these things before several times this week.

Deb's book and Schwartz's book both came today so I guess I have some reading to do.

The salad dressing was the mix Napa Garden by Homemade Dressing bought at amazon made with organic ACV, non-organic Balsamic Vinegar, and canola oil.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 2:02 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


The salad dressing was definitely a problem. Citric acid can be bad enough, but when the first ingredient is "spices" it sure sounds as if they're hiding something.
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 3:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Yes I was aware of what they said about ingredients before I ate it. I knew I was testing things and well, it did something. The reaction was not as drastic / intense as when I was taking the Vitamin D however the previous few days however it did trigger other things as you can see from my notes below.


Today will be more interesting as I am testing too much probably. I had some allegedly wild salmon and potatoes and carrots in my meals today. I will be back to FF chicken (not draper valley), rice, fruit and veggies tomorrow I expect. I will be making some salad dressing with what I can find around and recipes I can find. I did take one off the msg free recipe book linked above and have Deb's book now. The problem with the other bottle I have is the garlic was jarred and well, yesterday, since I used olive oil, it was solid in the fridge or I would have used it.

Overall, I can sense improvement in how I feel and how my brain is working. It still isn't running great but we made the trip today for my PT appointment, did blood draw in advance, shopped at Safeway, and when we got home I wasn't nearly as dizzy as usual.

One more thing about this reaction yesterday. I had more tremors / palpitations last night and had a much harder time sleeping than any other night this past week.
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 8:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, real quickly i will mention that when i first started here, i initially felt a lot worse before i began feeling any better... possibly from having to experiment with so many 'new' foods that my body just wasnt accustomed to dealing with in its oversensitized state
nite palpitations & leg cramps/restless legs were some of the worst increases for me also...

thankfully, over time those have all diminished to a more manageable and less frequent level than before i started... cant say im exactly healthy, but i do feel better in a lot of ways...
so hang in there! after awhile you should really start noticing you have some breathing space between episodes :-)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 11:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, i felt a lot worse before i felt better. I had a terrible time with moodswings i now attribute to withdrawel like when i stopped smoking. It was awful.
I also, over the coming months, came to the conclusion that i was never going to eat anything preprepared ever again. I have my store of safe ingredients and i make everything myself, right down to frozen stock cubes. Fortunately we dont seem to have an major issues with slow cooking for which im grateful as i know a lot on the site do. We do have problems with tomatoes that are cooked too long but other than that i can simmer stews and casseroles all day long with no adverse reaction. My herb garden is taking over as the main area in my garden as i use so many. Its a good idea to grow some herbs, if youve the space, to add interest to otherwise bland cooking. Ive not long since dried and ground my herbs for winter use. :-)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 12:13 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well there were reactions again yesterday but they simmered down by the time I went to bed or so I thought. Sleep was difficult again. I am aware I am probably going through a withdrawal phase but am already in withdrawal from "benzos - really sleeping pills rxed for years". I know the glutamate / GABA balance "game" is being played in my body and will be for years so my hope is by decreasing the glutamate, the turmoil will lessen.

Palpitations and muscle spasms are part of benzo withdrawal symptoms. Let me post a link - I am sure many of us can relate them them too. You want Chapter 3 - the first is download in pdf - the second (same material) is online to read.

I picked up a couple of "safe" items at Safeway to try. I couldn't find the Newman's Oreo type cookies (**sobs**) but I did find the ak-mak crackers and they were good - too good to last. Oh well next time I will get another. I am not sure our local store has them but I do have them now on my amazon wish list. The reaction was long before eating them.

I appreciate all the comments I am getting. I think we all need to see others views and get input.

Today's planned meals should not provoke any extra reaction. I will be back on track.

Kristy - tell me about the ginger chews. I found them at amazon too. What else is safe? The first thing I did when getting Deb's book was to look at safe sweets / cookies etc.

I have some bread mixes I think are safe at least looking at the ingredients they appear to be. These - except the box is different but same list of ingredients

You are supposed to add buttermilk but I can work around that if I have to. I have some of the scone mix too. You add a lot of butter to it but I can work with that too. I stoppd fixing them when I went "gluten free" but maybe it isn't gluten but MSG that is the problem.
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Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 8:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara,

We love the Ginger chews - they'll definitely be in Xmas stockings this year. The Reed's premium ginger brew is corn-free, too. You should be able to find some other candies and goodies on the corn-free list. I think most people here can eat Walker shortbread cookies, too.

Here is a link to a list of corn-free foods. Since most fga additives are made from corn, most of these foods (maybe not all so always read labels) will be safe for msg intolerant folks, too. CC means confirmed corn-free and GF of course means gluten-free....
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Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 1:04 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

walkers shortbread cookies are really good
cannot find ingredient list but pretty sure is is wheat flour/sugar/butter/salt
i do not react to them and sugars are low

have mega trouble with potatoes unless they are organic someone said the gas or pesticides?
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Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 1:25 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a short note - thanks for the link kristy - I have it bookmarked already.

Walkers are on promo at Amazon until the 25th - I ordered one "package" of festive shaped ones (Christmas theme it appears) to try. A package is 4 small boxes. I found their ingredients on the walkers main page (they have a promo going on too).
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 3:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good shortbread is so easy to make at home it's worth preparing it yourself.
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 1:23 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

200 grams butter creamed with 100 grams sugar. Add a teaspoon of baking powder to 325 grams of flour (if you are using bicarb half a teaspoon and add juice of half a lemon to the creamed mixture) Fold in the flour until you have a ball of dough (it should be very dry!) and then roll into about 25 little balls, lay on a baking tray, flatten them slightly and prick with a fork. 25 minutes at 160c and you have perfect bite size shortbread. My kids love them!!
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 1:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

we have no issues with walkers shortbread and the ingredients list you posted is right Debbey. Check out some cheaper brands too, becaue we can get a couple of supermarket own brands with the exact same ingredients and have no problem wiht them.
We do good with walkers ready salted crisps to.
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 9:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, i know you are not easily able to get to just any store where you live, but i want to mention that we have found both Reeds & Walkers items more than once at BigLots and Grocery Outlet (both NW discount chains)... actually, you never know what safe goodies you might find at either store, and the discounts on otherwise exorbitant treets always make the stop worthwhile-

whenever i pass a Grocery Outlet when i am out & about, i always try to make a point to stop in for a quick visit :-)
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 11:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the shortbread cookies sound awesome!!!!!!
i really do not like to cook that has been one of the things i learned to deal with....(plus i have icky blood sugar and have to eat all the time-1 cookie is a treat!) so i try to find short cuts when possible your stock cubes sound wonderful but all my soups use pacific or imagine organic veggie broth cause it is easier for me the non cook person :-) (:
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 11:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Grocery Outlet is around - we have shopped there before off and on. Last BigLots I was in was Springfield IL but I am aware they are around too but not close. We do go a few blocks from a GO every so often but that store is pretty toxic for me but I have found over time some nice items there. We are probably about due to go there again but when we go that far I can't handle much more than one or two stores and my PT appt, and Safeway and WM have won lately in what stores to go to. There is a Liquidator and produce place here besides our local small grocery and we don't go there as that store always reeks even more than GO (part of the reek is tobacco smoke); I hesitate to buy anything that isn't canned or bottled there but do know people who buy their produce there all the time.

Right now extra baking is beyond me. I have made shortbread once long long ago and didn't think it was that hard. It just isn't our kind of cookie but maybe it will become just that. I do have some of that Garvey's bread in the little countertop oven right now and will see how that goes.

I do know how to cook and bake but really had gotten away from it as I worked and there were always just the 2 of us. So I haven't spent a lot of time in the kitchen cooking and baking as many of you probably have.
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Posted on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 1:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Im not a natural cook or baker, hehe. Its been a long hard road!! But things are better than ever in my kitchen and its become a hobby, much to the amazement of those who know me!! :-) Ive had a fair few disasters amongst my successes i can tell you. I only have to suggest my fish pie for my family to run out the door screaming NOOOOOO!! haha. A little hick up with lemon was spectacularly gross!!
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Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 8:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ha ha, ali, you kill me!!
ive made some of those -er- more MEMORABLE meals too
my family still cringes at the thought of lentil salad, and just this past week i adventurously attempted a batch of real Ethiopian injera bread... arrrgh, peeyew! the whole apartment smelled of rotten gym sox *gag*... ive found what looks like a good site should i ever decide to try it again but...
he he, it was a pretty spectacular fail :-)
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Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 6:27 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Bo'nana, that makes me feel so much better. :-) I must say ive had a pretty good run lately though i have flat shortbread today for some reason!! No idea why, they just decided to flatten in the oven??? Still they taste okay!! Heres to a festive season without any culinary disasters!!
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Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 11:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am plugging along.

I discovered the Celestial Seasonings tea I was drinking on occasion has "natural flavoring" in it. I think I reacted to some yesterday. I reacted to either it or the bread I made so will test that again sometime.

Is the problem with carrots and potatoes Auxigro? I wonder as do we really know if that is still being used or not (yes some farmers could have some hidden away but ... ).

I am checking labels better of what I have here on hand as well that foods I am looking at buying. This is going to be a long and slow process.

My mother passed off some strange meals growing up - unfortunately some of them she repeated. I know I have made a few strange things too over time.

Flat shortbread would work fine as crumbs on some fruit dessert, or fruit sauce poured on them I bet or dunked into a nice hot cup of cocoa or the like.
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Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 12:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thats a great idea. The shortbread crumbled on dessert. Ill be trying that.
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Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 12:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know I have had cobbler with really hard square cookie on top before at a restaurant.
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Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 1:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, Celestial Seasonings uses additives in their teas. Sometimes the "clean" label teas may have additives in the form of adhesive for the tea bags. Try loose teas to avoid this. I'm not sure exactly what they are using to glue the tea bags together but I have read many reports of reactions to them.
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Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2010 - 4:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just an update and more -

I ordered from boxedgreens - I ordered the medium seasonal box - it is for 2/3 people they said and is all organic. It came yesterday and below was what was in it. The price for the items themselves wasn't bad I thought and it did come Air overnight UPS so what was the killer was shipping.

You have to remember I live in a tourist trap where we have one grocery store with some variety but high prices. Our nearest supermarket (Safeway) is close to 30 miles away. This information is basically for anyone finding my posts with search - the box content will vary weekly I was told.

5 medium bananas
10 small apples
2 avocados
3 medium tomatoes
5 brown potatoes (reasonable bakers)
3 red onions
3 spinach stalks
8 or so collard green leaves
sack of spring mix - will last us 2 or 3 days (2 of us)
1 large stalk celery
1 small/med cauliflower - very nice looking
2 large parsnips

They box weighed 19 lbs and there was an ice pack (reusable) and Styrofoam lining for the box.

I don't think I missed anything. I am working these into our diet - never had collards before myself but we ate them nuked like spinach for dinner today. Parsnips will also be new for me.

As far as the diet goes, I lost it but am back on track again. I am trying to discover what cheating I am allowed to do; I realize I am not as sensitive as many of you are but I do react to this stuff. I do read labels and am making better choices. I had a small amount of salsa last night (jarred) and know I reacted to it some but not as much as it would have done 2 weeks ago. I didn't get the bad palpitations.
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Posted on Friday, December 31, 2010 - 12:42 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We eat a lot of parsnips Sara. Ive tried them many ways and they can be quite bitter. The best way ive found is to chop into finger like pieces and parboil for just a couple of minutes. They soften really quickly!! then toss them in olive oil and roast in the oven. That way they are lovely and sweet. We have them with a typical roast dinner alongside roast carrots. You can also toss them in honey before roasting but i find that too sweet. Many people roast them with no parboiling and personally i dont like the bitter taste that way. Hope this helps you to grow to love parsnips. I hated them until i discovered boiling removes the bitter taste!
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Posted on Friday, December 31, 2010 - 2:23 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well one of the parsnips was eaten. He didn't care for it but I didn't think it was that bad. I peeled it, cut into strips, sprayed olive oil and dumped parsley and chives on it and nuked it for 4 minutes. It was a little bitter in the core.

He was happy there were leftover frozen peas (though he did eat his share of the parsnip). I guess I have to eat the other one myself. He will eat turnips (raw) and actually likes them and actually was exposed to a larger variety of veggies as kid than I was. He won't eat squash but I will.
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Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2011 - 4:33 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just boil the parsnip after youve chopped and washed it for just a few minutes then do as you did with it and that bitterness disappears and they are just lovely and sweet.
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, January 03, 2011 - 1:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My aunt boiled peeled sliced parsnips until tender but not mushy. Then she sauteed them in some butter and added salt and pepper...sweet and good.
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Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 11:31 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other parsnip will probably be cooked tomorrow and I will eat it. The bag of spinach from boxedgreens had more in it than I reported above.

I had a strange reaction yesterday too but maybe it wasn't so strange. I had an appt and ate 2 Altoids wintergreen mints before it. This was a tin I had in the car for a long time. I read the tin label later and it said natural and artificial flavoring (but then these might not have been in their original tin). I checked other tins later at home and they do vary on contents. I did find on another thread someone had reacted to Altoids gum.

So many things I search for I come up empty on.

Yesterday I bought a box of Pecan Nut thins - wheat and gluten free crackers - they look fairly benign to me and I did have some and don't think I reacted. Ingredients: rice flour, pecan meal, potato starch, salt, expeller pressed safflower oil, salt, natural pecan flavor, natural butter flavor [contains milk].

I scoured Safeway tuna shelves yesterday and came up with some Bumble Bee one which didn't have broth in it (one kind was all). All the rest had broth in them that I looked at and I didn't bother to read some of the "cheaper" ones. It was discouraging as I don't have all day (or the ability to read in a toxic laden store - toxic people walking by mainly) all the labels yet. I found something at Safeway online and didn't find it in our store. I really hate the idea ordering a case of something at Amazon and end up giving it away but that is probably end up doing. I will check our little local store and see what they have but that store itself I find "toxic" most of the time.

Can I eat cooked dried beans / peas often? What do I need to watch for with them? I want to make a pot of split pea or bean soup and eat it over a few consecutive days or something like that.

I am eating pumpkin seeds daily but other than that and these crackers above, I am trying to follow Deb's diet for the bulk of things after my reaction to either Ruffles or ak-mak crackers a few days ago. I do like ak-mak crackers as well as the Walkers shortbread (but they are very rich for us).
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Posted on Friday, January 14, 2011 - 11:17 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am very frustrated.
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Posted on Friday, January 14, 2011 - 3:43 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, I know what frustrating is. It took me a long time to know what I could tolerate or not. Everyone is different, so what I can eat, you may not be able to. But my suggestion is to try to eat fresh produce, or frozen without anything added, and fresh protein. Try to eat only those things that you have prepared and don't put any thing on sauces, etc. unless you know for SURE that it is safe. I can tolerate organic butter, EVOO, and Breakstone full fat sour cream for veggies, but you might not. I have found Starkist Gourmet Choice Solid Light Tuna Fillet canned tuna (light tuna, water, salt), or Bumble Bee Wild Alaska Pink canned Salmon (Pink salmon, salt) is ok for me when I need to use canned. It's really impossible to know for sure what has been done to any of the food in the store, you just have to assume anything in any kind of packaging will probably have more done to it than fresh/raw not in packaging. Most of us aren't lucky enough to be able to live off the land, but if you can grow anything this summer that would be ideal. It took me several years to figure it all out, and I have to be continually vigilant because the ingredients in things I do buy in a can/package change from time to probably know that already.

Try to hang in there. It will get better.
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Posted on Friday, January 14, 2011 - 5:08 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am seeing reactions - interesting in ways. I had some canned Heinz beans Tuesday (not local brand as they were from UK and I am not) and they set off my whole face eye orbit pain. I will try them again tomorrow and see if that returns a second time.

However I have had an big increase in palpitations again and hate them. I am not sure if they are from something I ate or meds (I am trying to lower one and gave up on Monday and reinstated at larger dose) - so I am probably trying to do too much at once.

I search for things on the forum and get no where usually. - sometimes I find posts but then when I click on the list in search, I can't find even the word I was looking for in what comes up.

I know what is safe for one might not be safe for another but I need more to work with. I can feed my husband all the "bad" food he will eat but I need to find more variety I can tolerate. We had pork tenderloin yesterday and today and I think it set off more or it is the leftover reaction from the increase in palpitations but this is different than the heinz beans reaction.

I have a lot of sinus fluid on one side and it is frustrating. I have a lot of burning mouth issues and they seems to be related. I have a very sensitive trigeminal nerve which doesn't like onions, garlic, bleach and more. I have distorted sense of smell and am always tasting something that isn't right - food tasted okay but empty mouth isn't right.

I am working at it but with where I live, and lack of a decent store to easily get to, it is hard.
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Posted on Friday, January 14, 2011 - 11:46 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We all do okay with Heinz beans apart from my youngest who is without doubt a lot more sensitive than the rest of the family. We dont eat them often though as from my youngests reaction they obviously contain msg or free glutamate. I think its just the fact that they are processed tomatoes rather than anything nasty added as my youngest cant tolerate cooked tomatoes at all. Not even if i make a bolognese from fresh tomatoes.
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Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2011 - 9:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I had 1/2 cup of the beans - rest of what I ate was probably fairly "safe" but I never know as I am still new to all of this. I did react - not as intense as the other day but there was a similar reaction and delayed again- this time longer from when I ate.
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Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2011 - 9:16 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is the thing with Dole bananas? Can someone enlighten me?

I tried to read things on the forum - I can see a boycott because of their policies etc.

I hadn't seen Dole there for a long time but the last 2 times at our little grocery Dole is all they have had so I bought them and have been eating them.
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Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 3:29 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, as long as you are eating canned, boxed, and packaged foods, you will react. I think you may be extra sensitive to food additives of all kinds and there is almost nothing in the stores that is additive-free except for a few things in the produce aisle. Even if the label looks 'clean', there will still be some caustic crap used in packaging, sterilization, irradiation, fortification, enriching, controlling bacteria counts and "keeping it fresh". You need to understand that processed foods are full of chemicals and genetically modified crops and these days meat, dairy and much of the produce are actually processed foods.
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Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 5:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I think I learned a valuable lesson yesterday - tested the theory - it came true.

I am still looking for what I can eat that will be entirely safe, affordable, and easily obtainable, and will continue on that journey.
Deb A.
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 11:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, it is not hard at all to cook dry beans. The book has simple directions. Just wash and discard any bad ones in a strainer. Then dump into a large pot and cover the beans plus 3 inches more of water. Bring to a boil, then turn off the heat, cover and let sit for at least an hour. I drain again, add fresh water and simmer on low heat until tender, anywhere from 20 minutes to 40, depending on the density of the beans. I let them cool, take out what I want to use that day or week and freeze the rest in freezer bags with a little of the liquid. This works for any dry bean and I have bags ready to use in the freezer. They can be mashed for refries adding liquid and seasonings you like. Or you can use them for soups, salads, or plain eating with a little olive oil and salt. I even add some to my smoothies for protein. Since you are finding it hard to find safe food, you might try stocking up on bulk items like dry beans, brown and white rice(rinse the latter until water under strainer is clear. We even grind our own hard white wheat. With today's equipment, we can make so many healthy foods. We have an extra freezer and load it with tomatoes and other produce all summer for the winter. These things may seem overwhelming at first, but we all made positive changes when we's worth every effort. At first, all I did was look for safe processed food items..and went crazy. Then I realized I had to bite the bullet and look for real, whole foods and let them take over my former habits of buying fast foods. Hang in there.
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 2:05 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have never had much luck with beans. I probably try once a year and fail so have had some 40 some bad batches. Either they end up undercooked or end up as mush. I will try your ideas with what I just bought (I have some I bought a couple weeks ago to try with again). I do have a large crock pot I can use or can cook them on the stove.

I can do split pea soup and actually have made bean soup - same recipe just used soaked beans and lots more cooking time instead.

I can get brown rice easy enough but do have both brown and white on hand. Right now I am trying to eliminate gluten so wheat is out but I did find a sack of King Arthur whole wheat flour at Safeway back in Dec to try out when I do go back on gluten.

Right now I am looking for something in the line of nut/seed butter that would work and I can spread on some rice cakes (lundberg organic salted ones). The arrowhead PB I bought last fall I didn't really care for and that was before all of this "lets get all the MSG" out of the diet phase.

Right now in my freezer (half the fridge) I have lots of sacks of plain veggies (mostly peas but there are other things too) and some FF chicken and a few other things. I will pick up more FF chicken tomorrow at Safeway to try to last us 2 weeks until I can get there again.

We are eating plain - lots of veggies - I am not eating a lot of prepared things - the beans was a test. I have made my own salad dressing these past few weeks and use it for my salads. I try to grow many of my own sprouts I eat too.
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 3:45 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This list may be helpful

Foods rich in glutamate and aspartate:

1) Grains: Wheat, barley, and oats are highest. Corn and rice are lower than the previous three but higher than potatoes.

2) Dairy Products: All Cheeses (cheddar, Swiss, Monterey Jack, Mozzarella, PARMESAN) are very high. Casein is very concentrated in cheese and is 20% glutamic acid by composition.

3) Beans: Soy, Pinto, lima, black, navy, and lentils

4) Seeds: Sunflower, pumpkin, etc.

5) Peanuts: Very high, as are cashews, pistachios, and almonds. I have more detailed charts on the site to show exact values for the various nuts. Everything in moderation applies when eating nuts of any kind. So, I do not recommend you reach for nuts when you are really hungry unless you can stop after a few. Nuts are very good for moderation. For example, seven almonds a day gives you what you need .

6) Diet drinks: Primary source of aspartate (aspartame/Nutrasweet)

7) Prepared foods, soups: 70% of prepared foods and many soups have MSG

8) Meats: Note: All meats are naturally rich in glutamate and aspartate. Lamb (and eggs) are the lowest, while rabbit and turkey are the highest.
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 3:55 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi sara, i want to mention that it does make a HUGE difference if the dried beans were not all that fresh to start with- and prebagged beans at the typical supermarket generally wind up sitting on the shelf for quite awhile.

the older the beans are, the longer they must be presoaked and cooked. i once had to use some really old beans that NEVER really got soft, even after simmering for at least 3 hours!
if possible, try always to avoid buying any that appear "dusty" or shriveled. Good fresh dried beans should be glossy and plump, just like good coffee beans.

older ones can still be used, but they require some tinkering and a lot of patience.

for all hard beans (ie Pinto, Black, Red, White, Pink etc) always be sure to presoak at least several hours- better to let soak overnite. if they are older, your best bet is to quickly bring to boil, turn off and then let soak at least overnite. be sure to change out the soaking water before cooking.

to help with softening, various herbs can be added, such as dried kelp (if tolerated), garlic, fennel, or a pinch of epazote

never add salt until your beans have finished cooking- i learned the hard way that will for sure prevent them from softening!

and then too, there are a few beans which DO NOT need soaking, or they will turn to mush, such as all varieties Dal or Lentils, Split Peas, and Adzuki beans.
so in general, 'hard' beans must be soaked, while 'sweet' beans should not.

hope that helps. keep at it- its intimidating at first, but eventually you'll get the knack and wonder why it ever seemed so difficult :-)
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Thanks - I had actually found that site last night in my search and been looking at it today

and this since I posted earlier --!/pages/The-GARD-The-Glutamate-Aspartate-Restricted-Diet/120969041248721?v=wall

this is from his facebook page -

Here is The GARD in a nutshell:

1) Eliminate all of the “big 4”- gluten (wheat, barley, rye), dairy products, soy and corn.

2) Eliminate all sources of MSG and aspartame (NutraSweet)

3) Restrict the intake of nuts, seeds and beans/legumes until recovery is achieved. (Legumes may be a long-term problem.)

4) Limit the consumption of gluten-free grains (quinoa, millet, flax, sorghum, and even rice) until symptoms have improved.

5) Limit caffeine intake

6) Limit intake of refined sugar

7) Eliminate all trans fats (hydrogenated oils)

8) Try to eat as organically as possible (to eliminate toxins/pollutants)

9) Drink filtered water

10) Take appropriate supplements (D3, omega threes, B complex, C, magnesium, selenium, magnesium, iodine, zinc, etc.)

What TO eat initially:

1) Vegetables

2) Fruits and berries

3) Lean meats* and fish (*in reasonable quantities, preferably the “cattle”- lamb, beef, venison, bison)

4) Eggs (nature’s true perfect food)

5) Sweet potatoes

6) Potatoes (well-cooked and if not nightshade intolerant)

7) Limited quantities of rice

Once recovery is well underway, you can add:

1) Gluten-free grain substitutes ad lib (millet, flax, sorghum, tapioca, quinoa)

2) Nuts and seeds ad lib (with tree nuts being ideal)

3) Legumes/beans (if necessary and desired. Avoid soy, though!)


It sounds like finding a suitable nut/seed butter isn't a good idea. I need the Mg and don't do supplements (even trisalts) well.

My next question is - will raw legumes be the same problem as cooked ones? For example bean sprouts or soaked beans versus cooked ones? I like some of the soaked, uncooked dry peas/beans/lentils and of the sprouts I grow I like lentils best. Is this a problem too?
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 4:27 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


thanks too

as well as thanks to Deb A earlier.
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 5:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, the Phytates in uncooked beans are a problem for most (if not all) people- legumes are very high in these very unhelpful plant chems and too much will essentially shut your digestion down.

this is why Soy is such bad news- Soy is EXTREMELY high in Phytates, compounded by the fact that the particular type in soy just dont cook out. ...which is why historically, asian people consumed little soy and only slow fermented ie: miso, tamari, natto or tempeh. it seems the traditional slow ferment process does effectively break the soy phytates down pretty well. i can personally vouch for small vat slow fermenting- i have no trouble at all with a good aged small batch traditional tamari, but my system has been so poisoned by modern unfermented soy products & isolates that even one taste of soy milk or tofu has my gut reacting mighty unpleasantly!)

sprouting does nullify a lot of the phytate in other beans, but not completely and so most types of bean sprouts should be lightly stir-fried (again, as is traditional in asian cultures)

one exception, ive heard, is mung bean sprouts- but as i personally am quite phytate sensitive, i choose to lightly saute them too.
however, once well cooked, i have no problem with most beans- thankfully. i LOVE legumes of all kinds! most have always been a real 'feel good' energy food for me.

but there is one other besides Soy that i do react badly to: Fava. and so do my husband and both sons... altho none of us are of mediterranean descent, all four of us go completely manic wacko from Fava beans or flour (yet another reason ive found i do need to be very cautious with Gluten-Free items- Fava has lately become quite popular in many of the now soy-free GF baking mixes & products :-(

sheesh. so much again to consider...
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Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 8:07 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't plan on sprouting soy beans - I will have to do some more googling but I found lentil sprouts are okay raw on a few sites.

Fava beans I am not sure I ever eaten and I don't buy gluten free mixes or foods.
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Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 3:32 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, Thanks for the facebook link. It says: "The G.A.R.D. is The Glutamate & Aspartate Restricted Diet and was developed for the treatment of epilepsy, pain syndromes and neurodegenerative diseases." I didn't know that. The diet sounds right and it sure helped me eliminate pain, although I tolerate moderate amounts of rice, legumes and seeds now. And eventually, you may also.
Deb A.
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Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 10:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jack Samuels of has said that the very process of sprouting of most grains and beans caused the creation of more free glutamate in the sprouted end product. Be careful with green and split peas, since they are very high in glutamate. Many people here have reacted to lentils and slit peas and quinoa. We are each different in our tolerance for glutamate, so we have to test ourselves. For me, I go very easy on dairy and wheat and avoid quinoa and soy. I can tolerate a few fresh or frozen green peas thrown on my salad, and have done well with simmered French lentils. But another time, I got very ill with green lentils..I suspect that it could have been because I had reached my tolerance level with other foods before eating them, and so I tipped the balance. It's a balancing game. For example, if we decrease the amount of meat we consume in a meal, then we are better able to handle some dairy in our dessert later. We rely heavily on vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, winter and summer squash, sweet potatoes, cabbage and carrots...and lots of fruits of all kinds. We add proteins by mainly eating chicken, fish, and some beef and pork. We love Indian food and I make dishes that derive protein from rice and beans only. I make breakfast smoothies with Crystal Farms pasteurized egg whites, sometimes adding almonds for more protein. I've also added cooked brown rice for more bulk and nutrition. We eat brown rice a couple times a week and use it to make rice milk..whirl with water and pinch of salt in the blender. But all the advice here is important and it's true that for the newbie, avoiding more of certain glutamate rich foods at first is good...adding more as you become a bit more tolerant and are healing.
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Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peas are a staple here. What about snap peas (pods you eat) - are they as bad? We buy them at Safeway when we go (which means I came home with some today.

I also picked up their sale veggies - bok choy, napa cabbage, zucchini, yellow squash and spinach and spring mix. I got 2 lbs of organic carrots - I am not sure carrots are okay yet. We will finish the cauliflower and broccoli I got the other day today.

I looked at cereal today at Safeway and didn't come home with any for me. I did pick up a lot of eggs there.

I can't do much in the line of spicy right now - I love it but it doesn't love me back. Even onions or garlic will trigger burning mouth - mild sweet onions I can cope with but strong ones will trigger me just cutting them.

I don't know how much of what I have is glutamate problems. I just really don't know yet. I can see where too much MSG in food (not that I am eating any right now but in the past) will make things worse.

I am trying to digest what the dogtorj site is saying. I mentioned it at my appt this morning (PT). I loaned her the copy of Schwartz's book this morning too and she was very interested in the Blaylock book and started browsing it more after she was done working on me.

I had a spearmint altoids before the appt and it set off more mouth burning but not the same reaction as the wintergreen ones 2 weeks ago. She has mints in her waiting area and I got the name of the product from the receptionist and some of them have natural flavoring in them - sometimes I have one - sometimes I don't. I need to be more selective if I have one.

Balance is crucial. I was a mathematician in my day but I need more data still to determine what I am trying to balance and what numbers I can play with.
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Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 - 4:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb, Please post your recipe for how to make the rice milk. I would love to try making it. Do you use the cooked rice?
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 10:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biotene Mouthwash - trying to find out more on this.

The list of ingredients is long and very chemical. I wrote and asked the manufacturer about the natural flavoring. This is what I got.

"We have received your e-mail message regarding Biotène® PBF Mouthwash.

The natural flavors in this product include Natural Peppermint Oil, Natural Cranberry and Natural Bubblegum."

I wrote back and asked about the natural bubblegum - anyone have ideas? I hope they will respond with some real information but not going to hold my breath waiting.

I have gone to baking soda as TP but I have used this nightly for a while - maybe I need to find something else.


I am still pondering how to get Mg into me - I didn't eat any peas or beans yesterday but did have pumpkin seeds. Some of the greens are good but in super large servings. My heart is so sensitive to Mg in supplements but can handle it in food as far as I know.

3 1/2 years ago everything got worse. It was after a dental cleaning and the city spraying for weeds along side of all the roads and waterways. There was more going on too and the spraying and dental appt were same time. I have gradually been trying to recover from that but that summer I spent 23 hr / day lying down with all kinds of symptoms. My mouth burning sensations came a few months into this. My sense of smell and taste were super sensitive during all of this and for a while nothing tasted right. Now things taste okay but I still am left with all kinds of extra smells and tastes which do vary. Something is triggering the nerves.
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 12:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You may not be able to eat many of these foods, but perhaps you can find several things on these lists that will help pump up your magnesium intake.
Foods High in Magnesium Serving Size Magnesium (mg)
Beans, black 1 cup 120
Broccoli, raw 1 cup 22
Halibut 1/2 fillet 170
Nuts, peanuts 1 oz 64
Okra, frozen 1 cup 94
Oysters 3 oz 49
Plantain, raw 1 medium 66
Rockfish 1 fillet 51
Scallop 6 large 55
Seeds, pumpkin and squash 1 oz (142 seeds) 151
Soy milk 1 cup 47
Spinach, cooked 1 cup 157
Tofu 1/4 block 37
Whole grain cereal, ready-to-eat 3/4 cup 24
Whole grain cereal, cooked 1 cup 56
Whole wheat bread 1 slice 24
Rich sources of magnesium include tofu, legumes, whole grains, green leafy vegetables, wheat bran, Brazil nuts, soybean flour, almonds, cashews, blackstrap molasses, pumpkin and squash seeds, pine nuts, and black walnuts. Other good dietary sources of this mineral include peanuts, whole wheat flour, oat flour, beet greens, spinach, pistachio nuts, shredded wheat, bran cereals, oatmeal, bananas, and baked potatoes (with skin), chocolate, and cocoa powder. Many herbs, spices, and seaweeds supply magnesium, such as agar seaweed, coriander, dill weed, celery seed, sage, dried mustard, basil, cocoa powder, fennel seed, savory, cumin seed, tarragon, marjoram, poppy seed.

Processing: How do cooking, storage, or processing affect magnesium?

The impact of cooking and processing on magnesium can vary greatly from food to food, since magnesium is found in different forms in different types of food. In some foods, where a greater percent of magnesium is found in water-soluble form, blanching (boiling or steaming for 1-4 minutes), steaming, or boiling of these foods can result in a substantial loss of magnesium. For example, about one third of the magnesium in spinach is lost after blanching. Similarly, when navy beans are cooked, they lose 65% of their magnesium.

In other foods that are rich in magnesium, like almonds or peanuts, there is very little loss of magnesium either from roasting or from processing into almond or peanut butter (as long as the whole almond or peanut is used).

How do other nutrients interact with magnesium?

The relationship between magnesium and calcium is one of the most actively researched, and yet not fully understood mineral-to-mineral relationships. On one hand, magnesium is required in order for calcium to maintain a balanced role in the body's metabolism. On the other hand, magnesium can compete with calcium and prevent calcium from trigger certain events, like the relay of a nerve message or the contraction of a muscle.

Because of the complex relationship between calcium and magnesium, healthy diets almost always need to contain foods rich in both minerals. Magnesium also has an important relationship with potassium, and helps regulate the movement of potassium in and out of our cells. Finally, because magnesium can be attached to certain building blocks of protein (called amino acids), increased intake of protein can sometimes help improve the body's magnesium status.

Also in the WHFoods webpage you will see a nice chart of foods ranked as sources of magnesium.
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, try soaking in an Epsom salt bath. Even soaking your feet will boost your magnesium. It soaks in through your skin so it bypasses the digestive system (many people react to magnesium supplements with diarrhea). You can also dissolve some Epsom salts in a small amount of water and then blend it into some coconut oil to make a magnesium balm.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 3:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Any time someone says the ingredients list "includes..." rather than "is..." there's a good chance they're leaving something out.
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 4:21 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks Roy - that is what I was wondering - also what is natural bubblegum flavor - will see if they respond to my further inquiry - guess I stop using it and see what happens

kristy -

I will put epsom salts on my list to buy - I don't have any on hand - the diarrhea from Mg isn't what is alarming to me - that I can live with - it is the heart arrhythmia that comes with it - I do know I also can't handle the Magnesium Oil (brine of MgCl I think it is) that I bought

Di -

I will check those sites out - some of them I am sure I have already seen - I did a search for high Mg foods last fall when I decided to start eating pumpkin seeds for the Mg and looked some again a few days ago = thanks for the information - I am aware of the balance needs to be there with Mg and Ca, as well as the balance between Na and K - Na / K in my own body I have been aware of for years when it tilts out of balance
Deb A.
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 4:24 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nana, I just put 1 cup of cooked brown rice in the blender with 4 cups of water and a sprinkle of salt...blend on high for 2 to 3 minutes. You can strain or let stand in the fridge and the heavier "sludge" will settle to the bottom. I like to add a little vanilla. I do the same thing with blanched or chopped almonds. We really like to make a spiced hot cocoa out of the rice milk. Bring a little water (1 cup) to a boil and add about 5 or 6 T. of cocoa and 1/2 t. or more to taste of cinnamon. I add a bit of cayenne and some salt. Bring to a simmer and let simmer 2 minutes, stirring on med-low heat. Add about 2 1/2 c. to 3 cups of rice milk and sweeten as you prefer. I like stevia. It's thick and fits a craving for sweet and chocolaty. I actually don't mind the "sludge" which is a little gritty, but rich in fiber.
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Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 5:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deb, Thanks so much for the recipes!
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Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 10:09 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hey sara, let us know if you do get a response back on the bubblegum "natural" flavor... i would love to know what kind of tree or bush a "bubblegum" came off of :-) ha ha

i would be very leery of anything listed as "natural flavors", consider them guilty until and unless they go to the trouble to prove themselves innocent! i am inquiring right now as to the "organic lemon flavor" in a box of tea i came home with... hoping to hear some sort of response back before i try any, perhaps "ORGANIC lemon flavor" is something different than "natural lemon flavor"- but the so-called 'natural lemon flavor' gives both sons & meself bad tummy upset, we discovered after just a couple bites of a so-called 'organic' brand of lemon cookies at Christmas- also caused burning tongue syndrome for me. so the whole box went in le Garbage.

Another one: i recently experienced a very bad attack of delayed arrhythmia - i made the mistake of letting down my guard and having a couple cups of the Hazelnut flavored coffee they serve at SweetTomatos Buffet. i used to go there all the time & never made the connection before (which doesnt mean there wasnt one- i just didnt realize it before)...this attack was so bad it had me wondering if i would wake up in the morning, no exaggeration!
Well NEVER again.

the whole Natural Flavors thing is just a huge fraud, i am convinced, nothing but new chemical poisons cleverly authorized by the good ole boys at the FDA to be accepted as GRAS and okayed to the organics listings- but they are nevertheless still toxic chemicals by nature and we WILL react in one way or another :-(

obtw...all varieties of Altoids give me the burning mouth syndrome too- i read their label last time around and saw several ingredients that i KNOW didnt used to be there. so, altoids are now obviously yet another liability of some Big OG takeover/ reformulation. Boo.
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Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 12:06 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't really expect to get info about the bubblegum flavor - or even what else is in there. I didn't use it last night - first night in about 1 1/2 years I think - I started buying biotene products in July 2009 - not sure if the mouthwash then or just the toothpaste.

Last night there weren't any palpitations but today they have returned. I didn't sleep as well last night - didn't do the pumpkins seeds and so was lacking in Magnesium. I know I am not perfect on the diet yet but still plugging away. I am keeping a better food diary and hope I can keep it up for now.

The altoids I have weren't bought in the last year - I have old tins around and see changes in ingredients.

I have never heard of Sweet Tomatoes Buffet but just googled them. The nearest one for us would be Vancouver but that is too far unless we were going down to Portland or Salem for something. So far in having moved here almost 7 years ago I have avoided those places as well as avoided Seattle / Tacoma area. Olympia I have gotten to a few times. I am west of there out on the coast.

I feel weird as I go through my cupboards (we had a lot of staples) trashing some, keeping somethings, and putting the rest (fresher but no-nos) in sacks for the food pantry. It's like I am giving away poison but this is what they want.
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Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 1:37 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, i remember my cupboard clear out all too well. I had stacks of packet sauces, gravy granuals, stock cubes etc. A good friend asked if she could have them. I gave them to her, but i felt like i was conspiring to poison her and her family. But she would have bought the exact stuff i was throwing out.
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Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2011 - 5:29 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've avoided sweet tomatoes for fear of preservatives / unknown ingredients. The one time I ate there in the distant past, prior to food allergies being known, I felt ill after. Most places I used to give a 2nd or even 3rd try if I thought it was a fluke, or me rather than the place. I gave no such 3 strikes to sweet tomatoes. Can't even recall why, but it must have been bad. On the other hand, it was years ago, so if they have gotten better, than I am speaking out of turn.
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Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2011 - 5:39 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara / Ali - I'm with you on that. Feeling like: if it's not good enough for me, then I shouldn't give it to someone else. I felt this way about the angelfood I would send my sister - to her it was a godsend, to me it was not fit for human consumption. I felt especially guilty because I know she suffers from glutamate sensivity as well. I wasn't willing to mailorder organic food for her, as I am not even willing to pay that price for me and my children - I do the work it takes to prepare fresh food and pick and choose the best locally available items. A moral dilemma - she went hungry without it, she ate, but not well with it.
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Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2011 - 4:03 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have looked at angelfood before - never bought it - took much processed for even my tastes when we were eating more processed foods. I can afford to buy better quality than that but right now I am rejecting idea of having to order everything online and get it delivered (though that time will come I know). I do like the idea of everything coming to the front porch. We do buy several things at amazon already in bulk.

Has anyone gotten anything from Schwanns? I am not looking at meats or entrees (too much sodium in them was my decision long ago) but veggies. They have frozen green beans, snap peas, California mix, etc. that I am interested in. You need to understand we are fairly remote - touristy - one grocery with freezer area that is out of commission half the time so frozen veggies are thawed / refrozen half the time.
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Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 2:38 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The response to my question about Natural Bubblegum flavoring.

"We have received your e-mail message regarding Biotène® PBF Mouthwash.

The specific flavor information is proprietary.

We appreciate your taking the time to contact us."
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 12:07 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OH!!!! Thats about as helpful as a chocolate tea-pot!! You would think there would be laws in place that mean they have to divulge what raw ingredients make up their products!! Its a disgrace that companies can get away with that. Id add that to my pile of brands not to buy, just on the merit that they wont divulge their ingredients!!
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 12:11 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Sara, im not sure if you were using mouthwash for a specific dental issue or just as a freshener rinse after cleaning your teeth as i do. But here is a recipe i use the last few weeks. Its pleasant in taste and makes for a fresh mouth.
Homemade Rosemary-Mint Mouthwash

2 1/2 cups distilled or mineral water
1 tsp fresh mint leaves
1tsp rosemary leaves
1 tsp anise seeds
Boil the water, add herbs and seeds, infuse for 20 minutes. Cool, strain and use as a gargle/mouthwash. If you wish to make up a larger quantity, double or triple the recipe then add 1 tsp of tincture of myrrh as a natural preservative.
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 11:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was using it at bedtime for dry mouth but was also using their toothpaste as it is SLS free.

This is one of the big pharma groups - GlaxoSmithKline = guess I need to start my own personal boycott of their products.
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 1:30 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

instead of toothpaste, plain ole baking soda isnt too bad, once you get used to it...
or you could try gently rubbing the toothbrush across a bar of plain SAFE soap that has no additives, you will get the bubbles youre used to plus teeth that are "squeaky clean" -and believe it or not, if its plain soap, it doesnt even taste bad! ehh, nothing like the Dial soap treatments i used to get for bad words as a kid...
my son's dentist suggested also brushing a couple times a week with 2% peroxide (the cheepo kind in the brown bottle)- i seem to react but it works fine for the kids, and i am sooo impressed with this dentist for being brave enough to actually volunteer a non-paste/unfluoridated alternative. but then, he seemed equally enthusiastic with the great shape my kids' teeth are in too- when i told him we swore off commercial toothpaste more than half a year ago (becoz of reactions to various chemicals), he didnt even blink- just said "great job mom-keep doing what you're doing!" and told me that my two boys have dental health that surpasses 90% (!) of the kids he sees at our low-cost clinic ... *yikes* 8>0
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 1:31 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

btw... sara, how are the palpitations since youve quit using the stuff with the 'natural flavors'?
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Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have been using baking soda almost exclusively since early Dec. There were a few times I didn't and used biotene but I put it in the medicine cabinet so it wasn't sitting out and the baking soda is out on the counter. I put the biotene rinse in the medicine cabinet too so I wouldn't automatically use it.

The palpitations have been better. Thanks for asking. I am also trying to taper off one med and tapering it causes them too. Instead of cutting one full pill, I did half a capsule 4 days ago and so far so good on that. In early Jan I tried to make a cut of a full capsule and failed because of the palpitations - they were too strong.

My biggest problem right now is burning mouth. I think I have a better idea on what is causing it - trace amounts of corn or some other additive. But the biotene rinse would tame the pain at least temporarily so I miss using it.

I had a fresh grapefruit last night and that flared it big time (was already there but it is so much worse today). There could also be something else causing it too - will have to see as time goes on but I am keeping a better food diary. My ear fluid sensation also increased since last night.
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Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2011 - 5:14 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I fill the bottle cap with peroxide, dip toothbrush in it, then in baking soda - then use the left over peroxide to rinse. Kills germs and stuff! Works great! And when the mineral salts deodarant needs a little boost, I put some peroxide on a cotton square and wash (pits) with it and/or use it to wet the mineral salts to apply.

Ali - that mint rinse sounds awesome, how long does it last (ie. will it go bad after a time). I am struggling with concern for food spoilage, for homemande items such as beans, bread and yogurt. I want to make lots, but then, of course they taste better fresh! It's definitely a learning process, esp. for a full time working Mom like me. I would like to have the convenience of canned beans (ie. not frozen) - any suggestions for storing without freezing and/or knowing how long things last?
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Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2011 - 6:22 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Thats the link to the website i got the mouthwash from Evelyn. I actually make just half the quantity and put in a glass bottle. Its used up within three days and ive noticed no deterioration or suffered any ill effects from it. But of course we are all different. I dont much suffer from ill effects from natural gluatamate as in long cooking times or reheating leftovers, but i know a lot of people on here do. I guess the only way is to try it. Im fortunate to be at home at the moment and have the time to make it every two to three days. Sorry i cant be more helpful on making bigger quantities and offering advice on that. Ali
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Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2011 - 8:43 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

evelyn and sara, i just want to mention that for a mouthwash ive taken to simply shaking in a few drops of pure rosemary oil following brushing, then swishing and swallowing.
it tastes pretty gnarly at first, but i got used to it fairly quickly... now i feel something is missing if i dont use it :-)

...i went to using it after 2 months of stubbornly inflamed/receding gums and an obnoxious problem with 'sticky' saliva. since i am scrupulous with dental hygiene, i concluded my sudden case of gingivitis had to be bacterial caused, and i knew that rosemary is one of the bitter herbs with an excellent antibacterial reputation.... voila- within a week the gingivitis cleared up and phlegm issues got under control! such a relief.

sara, i dont know whether rosemary would irritate your particular sensitivities, but i will say that i also tend toward problems with burning tongue & peeling palate, and personally found that rosemary has been quite soothing. for me it tastes much stronger than it 'feels'... if you do feel brave enough to give it a try, please let me know how it goes
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Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 11:30 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do you have brands of rosemary oil you suggest? I really know nothing about buying it and would have probably bought a big jar of the spice and made "tea" out of it - I can look at amazon and buy once I have a working credit card (we canceled ours - someone stole the number and started racking up charges on it - we hope to get a new one today or Monday in the mail)

I have found ginger to be too strong for my nerves (or so it seems) but I am experiencing lots more burning mouth problems than I had before I started this eliminate MSG diet

last night I got some off the pelligrino water - it has extra sulfate as well as fluoride in it - there was probably more - but the reaction was pretty clearly off the water last night - had an increase in palpitations too but they were fairly mild (plain - not flavored)

bo'nana - I think I read you were suspecting tea was a problem with your mouth - care to elaborate more (please) on what you found and if you got it cleared up some
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 7:20 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ugh- awful about your card!

you might look up AuraCacia or HerbPharm products. Osadhi is good but spendy! NOW brand is the cheapest ive found- probly for a reason!- but so far i havent had problems with theirs.

you just want pure rosemary oil, and its usually marketed as either a kitchen good or aromatherapy. altho, if you found rosemary extract instead (and can tolerate alcohol or glycerine) i would think that would be just as good?

interesting about the ginger... its usually so soothing- so i wonder what it might contain that is getting to you? does it cause the burning mouth thing too? what forms have you tried? i wonder, if dried powder is a problem, would the fresh root necessarily be? i like to add a slice to my cuppa sometimes.

the tea i complained about in some other posts was ACTUAL tea- "camelia sinensis"- black, green or oolong. i havent tried the white tips, but im sure it would probly do the same thing.
-id started drinking Earl Grey (with no added funky 'flavors'- hard to find!) last thanksgiving and a few days later broke out with a bad case of Perioral Dermatitis which has persisted until now, even tho i quit tea as soon as i made the Fluoride connection. the dermatitis has improved, especially once i started with oysters for extra zinc (my skin has very poor healing anymore), there for a few days i actually had none at all- that was sure nice!

unfortunately, ive got a return patch right on my upper lip after goofing and allowing meself a few bites of pizza (wheat, yeast), birthday cake (more wheat, sugar/corn + storebought so-!) and 3 tortilla chips with guacamole (corn) ... so obviously, while the fluoride in the tea really triggered it there is more going on than just that. ive been trying to avoid the most "acid producing" foods according to the blood ph plan- Wheat, Corn, Peanut, (of course Soy!), Dairy, Refined Sugars, and *sigh* Coffee...
it seems i can get away with a few ounces of coffee (like a sample cup or two) but not every day in a row, but right now i evidently have NO tolerance whatsoever for those others.

the flaring is pretty much immediate when it happens, i can feel it more than others can see it, altho once it gets to the point of going bright red its lovely.

did you say you also have problems with dermatitis? we do seem to have a lot of the same symptoms! tho, maybe not to all the same things...

what are all the things that youve been able to identify so far that cause you to start burning? feels like a chemical burn doesnt it? i know!
if you post your list of foods/symptoms, maybe some of us here can see a connection from our own experiences
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:21 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh... i just saw, there is actually a topic heading "Share Your Symptoms" where i guess these posts would better belong. oops
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 6:36 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see reactions of burning mouth to the following -

drinking celestial seasonings teas (zingers), probably drinking decaf black teas - maybe others - drinking pelligrino water

smelling (this reaction comes later in day - not immediate) onions (reaction is to strong ones -mild seem okay), garlic, bleach, some cleaner, wood / sawdust (cedar is really bad)

eating baby carrots, washed salad mix, kettle chips, eating spicy foods like salsa or chili or BBQ sauce

the mouth just starts burning - sometimes the lips - sometimes not - then it doesn't settle down - then there is an increase in sinus / ear fluid and then an increase in pressure / pain in that area and an increase in tinnitus (this is almost all left sided)

some of this might be neurological - who knows anymore

there is something called Oral Allergy Syndrome - part of this might be this - there is also a possibility that the burning mouth is trigeminal nerve damage

there are probably other neuro problems as I have super sensitive sense of smell sometimes - I can detect things on my hands many hours after getting it and after they have been washed many times - I have distorted sense of smell these days with all these background smells that persist - for example I had washed sink with a cleaner 2 days ago - last night I could still smell the rag I had used to wipe it - today I have had the smell of some sinus rinse all day that I had used last night - need to stop using it as it has pine in it

we walked the beach today - the bay smelled terrible - walking by weedy areas I can smell the "greenery" - it smells like the ends of carrots just walking not that close to it - walking through a field of tall grass is overwhelming -and smells persist long after the exposure sometimes
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 6:41 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh the ginger was "fresh" cut into slices
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Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 6:02 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am posting an update to where I am - as if I really know.

I ordered the rosemary oil (Aura Cacia) small vial from an amazon vendor and will see if that helps. It wasn't super pricey.

I am having lots of palpitations at times. This morning was really bad. I am not sure what all is triggering it but it could be several things I ate, fillers in meds, or things I got exposed to. I also have a nasty cold right now at least I have lots of congestion.

I have noticed an improvement in my gall bladder area pains trying to keep low glutamates. I think most of the time my mind is clearer but not always. I know I am constantly testing to see what I can eat safely and really have problems with that. I want more choices.

Some crackers I bought by mistake were definitely a trigger for an increase in symptoms including lots of mouth problems (dry, burning, tastes); I gave the rest to my husband after trying them twice 2 weeks apart. I thought they were on Deb's list but got home and discovered they weren't but tried them anyhow. I knew the ingredients weren't acceptable and will try not to make that mistake again.

I am also trying to get corn out of my eating which is hard since it is filler in many meds. I have it out of the rest of what I eat pretty much right now. I am sure however the chicken is probably not up to Kristy's standards. Someone posted a salmon source at the corn avoidance forum and I plan to order some soon.

I am also trying to minimize many other foods that are common allergens and get closer and closer to being off them but once off I need to stay off 3 weeks before reintroducing them. I am struggling to find a reasonable "carb" as I don't want it to be rice. It is actually something I was to eliminate these 3 weeks too as about 20 years ago I wasn't sure I wasn't reacting to it so I had tended to not eat it that often.
Deb A.
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Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 10:37 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sara, avoid most Celestial seasonings teas..most contain flavor enhancers and chemical residues that result in the making of some of their "natural flavors". Plain decaf green tea may be fine for is all the better. Onions and garlic are high in natural sulfur compounds, which I suspect you are highly allergic to. There's lots about sulfites in our book and you can do some searches here and online to learn what foods are most often treated with sulfites to preserve color. Baby carrots are often soaked in citric acid, which contain free glutamate residues. Try organic ones, or peel large ones and eat. Citric acid is widely used on washed greens. Some are even treated with sulfur dioxide gas or nitrogen dioxide, as are many fruits and vegetables traveling long distances...grapes, strawberries, celery. Most processed sauces not only contain MSG or hidden glutamate rich additives, but preservatives, such as sulfites and phosphates...and if under a certain amount, don't have to be labeled, i.e.: salsa, chili, or BBQ sauces. I do okay with some of the Trader Joe's, chipotle, and original. Many chips contain salt blends, which contain glutamate rich ingredients like maltodextrin, dextrin, etc. Some of the potatoes used may contain metabolic primers,(lots of Idaho potatoes may) which contain glutamate. I know it's hard, but try to make some of the items you are used to buying processed, and you can test yourself that way. You're on the right track. Hang in there!
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Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 6:22 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Bo'nana asked me to post things I reacted to with burning mouth so I did it a few posts ago.

I got rid of all my CS teas except for one kind a few weeks ago. The local food bank got all the unopened boxes. The one I saved for now is a white decaf "Ingredients: Decaffeinated white tea and natural white tea essence" - in time it might go too. At least there is a large trash can at our local store for food bank donations so donating there is pretty easy and the food bank people pick things up frequently so the can is rarely full unless there is a big sale on canned goods.

As far as carrots go there is a handful of baby carrots still in the fridge but they will go in my husband's coleslaw not mine. The carrots I am eating now are Safeway's organic bagged ones - you have to peel them. The other option is some bunch ones that are awful clean looking ones at our local grocery. Where we live there aren't many options - the little local tourist trap store and then Safeway we go to every 2 weeks about 30 miles away. There is a Top Foods (NW chain for anyone wanting to know) which I won't shop at and a small local chain of 3 independent stores also about 30 miles away. I have never stepped foot in a Trader Joes and expect Tacoma area is the closest.

I am getting more and more suspicious about potatoes being a problem. Ours are NW ones and not sure if they are grown in ID or OR or eastern WA. I am reading labels carefully and minimizing the processed things. I am also getting suspicious about vinegar.

My reactions to onion and garlic is to the odors - trigeminal nerve reaction. It isn't the the actual digestion process but the smell is the problem.

I have made some salad dressing, some ketchup and still haven't gotten to doing beans. I did have some of my dehydrated refried ones this week.
Deb A.
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Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 10:35 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most do okay with organic apple cider vinegar. IF you react to that, fresh lemon juice is a good substitute for most things. If you ever get a chance to go to Trader Joe's, here's a list of a few items we buy there:
Trader Joe brands of:
Taco Shells, Marinara sauce in green can, Hot Chipotle, Chile Verde, and Autentica salsas, organic bread and butter pickles, organic sliced dill pickles, Martini's kalamata pitted olives, canned corn, Traditional Style fat free refried beans, organic peanut butter, canned solid white albacore in oil, canned Tongal tuna in water, Premium chunk white chicken in blue can, organic mayonnaise, organic baked beans,organic ketchup, canned corn, maple syrup, dried organic fruits, and their plain crackers like Carr's brand.
As for potatoes, we do best with small Oregon grown ones. What is the reaction you get with trigeminal nerve condition, Sara?
Deb A.
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Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 10:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and we use their canned pineapple safely so far.
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Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2011 - 7:00 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hey sara, i wanted to make a mention of something i ran across earlier today- a connection between vit.D deficiency + the burning mouth thing...
ive been trying to ignore the whole "everybody everywhere needs to add this supplement" schpiel, but doggone it, it seems i keep coming back to vitD issues possibly factoring in somewhere...

personally, i have no intention of going back on bottled anything- but seeing as i have had good results adding oysters to my diet as a zinc 'supplement', i think i am going to see if i can hunt out a similar superfood as a way to add in more vitD and see if that makes a difference...

thought id run the idea by you as well

...oh, & i also read something about sufficient boron being needed for vitD uptake according to Prof. Garth L. Nicolson (a CFIDS & GulfWarSyndrome specialist) "most chronically ill people" tend to suffer from poor uptake of several vites/minerals, notably: B-complex, vitC, vit.E, magnesium & zinc, chromium & selenium (and i have heard that NW soils are notoriously low in Selenium)
...AND i keep coming across research and essays pointing me back to the possibility that Staph Aureus & any of the pathogenic yeasts (i do know im dealing with both) are working together to prevent my body's defenses from being able to properly attack & defeat either one
(ie see ....

so what to make of all that? i have no idea... i just find i am left feeling that there may be a whole synergy at work that is making it so difficult for some of us to find our balance even tho we have made great strides in cleaning so much junk out of our daily bread.

just more *ugh* 'food for thought'. sigh.
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for vitamin D some of the seafoods are supposed to help - I know I looked at it back in Dec when I tested low again and was reacting to the D I was taking (or so it appeared).

purebulk has a vitamin D in bulk - not sure about it - just saw it today as I was wandering their site -

I know there are correlations with some of the B's with burning mouth.
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 12:10 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i am going to look into Cod Liver Oil *bleah* & see if that solves anything... its really high in both A & D plus Omega3's and i dont think ive ever tried it before, so maybe...

yes, ive noticed a definite correlation between my own mouth symptoms and being low in some of the b's, for me there seems to be a pattern that also includes a sore, red tongue that i suddenly seem to bite a lot and cracks at the corners of my mouth and eyes. dont have any of that this time around, just the eczema i cant seem to kick. and that seems connected closely to what i eat. it flares almost immediately after processed sugar or flour for example, so i really think yeast overgrowth has got to be key... ive been reading that low vitD can be a culprit when you suddenly find yourself fighting infections that just wont quit so thats why i am going to give Cod Liver Oil a try. im thinking that it is SO high in D, i should know right off if thats got anything to do with this :-)

i too seem to react to every synthetic pill or cap ive ever tried... it always seems that after 2-3 months of benefit, a whole new slew of symptoms always arises and then ive got to track down the new imbalance and start over. thats why ive just given up on supplements altogether at this point... im hoping the fish oil might be enought of a 'whole food' not to do that this time!

how have you managed your deficiency and what have you noticed helps or hinders? have you tested for any other imbalances? its all so frustrating isnt it!!
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 7:01 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I've read that salmon in particular is a very good source of vitamin D.
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 9:28 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roy, thanx for the tip... great suggestion!
...unfortunately, my younger son seems to be allergic (he gets red and feeling ill) and hubby gets migraines from the smell so preparing it at home is out. also, ive had stomach reactions to farm-raised fish including canned salmon (i suspect becoz of whatever it is fed) ...
but occasionally when out i do get to enjoy a nice piece of wild Chinook. So yummy! -i will have to remember to justify the price by the benefits :D
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 10:16 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

deb, i just read your comment from a few days ago where you mentioned that the suppliers dont have to identify phosphates or sulphates as long as residue levels remain "below a certain limit". that's horrendous! thanks to all the wonderful info sharing on this board, i have identified that i am for certain strongly reactive to both chemicals, along with solvent residues, "essences" & "flavors" and chlorine/fluoride/bromides... and with all the difficulties sara is having, i wouldnt be at all surprised if chemical residues are playing a big part in her reactions too!
getting rid of the glutamates seems to have been the 'easy part'... how on earth are chemically sensitive folks supposed to avoid chemicals in our foods when they are allowed- rather, encouraged- even in organics??? with all of the continual 'recipe revisions' everywhere its NO WONDER 'new & improved' reactions keep cropping up all over the place!

on a more positive note, so far i am also still able to safely enjoy most of the plain simple foods from Trader Joes, and even a few of their prepared items (like their salsas- and even mayo, go figure).
however, it is definitely getting tougher even there... i have seen lots of recipe revising happening lately on their labels too. lots more ingredients like dextrins and yeast extract showing up... and of course, all those (un)natural flavors as well. grr!

sara, i was wondering if you have had a good blood metals challenge test done? with all of your wacky minerals sensitivities- like the magnesium issues you mentioned, and your trigemenal reactions which i believe ive heard are centered in the same part of the brain as seizure disorders... well, i'm reminded of how volatile my tourettes/spectrum son was when his toxic metals burden was too high- it seemed like EVERYTHING, including mineral supplements, caused powerful reactions! but after he was able to get through several months of Chelation therapy- which of course was hellish too- his body & brain were able to find the space needed to restore some sort of equilibrium. he is still too high in aluminum, but his lead & merc levels were cut in half and he no longer reacts to everything under the sun!

then again, ive been tested for metals and found that my body doesnt hold on to metals/minerals in general, i guess where my son's natural chelator is underactive- mine is in overdrive. so for meself, lately ive been trying to look into the possibility of some other underlying condition preventing proper healing... perhaps chronic lowlevel bacterial &/or fungal issues- since my gut has been messed up for years, and i do seem to respond very well to things like rosemary, garlic, turmeric and yogurt...

what are some of the things you can identify that YOU KNOW make you feel a whole lot better afterward? i wonder if looking from that angle might at this point be more revealing than trying to sort through all the miserable reactions? would you consider posting a list of your known "feel good" Safe Foods/Herbs?
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 10:46 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sara, a few posts back you said, "the mouth just starts burning - sometimes the lips - sometimes not - then it doesn't settle down - then there is an increase in sinus / ear fluid and then an increase in pressure / pain in that area and an increase in tinnitus (this is almost all left sided)
some of this might be neurological - who knows anymore
there is something called Oral Allergy Syndrome - part of this might be this - there is also a possibility that the burning mouth is trigeminal nerve damage
there are probably other neuro problems as I have super sensitive sense of smell sometimes - I can detect things on my hands many hours after getting it and after they have been washed many times - I have distorted sense of smell these days with all these background smells that persist - for example I had washed sink with a cleaner 2 days ago - last night I could still smell the rag I had used to wipe it - today I have had the smell of some sinus rinse all day that I had used last night - need to stop using it as it has pine in it
we walked the beach today - the bay smelled terrible - walking by weedy areas I can smell the "greenery" - it smells like the ends of carrots just walking not that close to it - walking through a field of tall grass is overwhelming -and smells persist long after the exposure sometimes"

...all of this can correlate to toxic mold exposure! some years ago, my family had this unfortunate experience after torrential rains invaded the brick walls of our vintage apartment building & reactivated a dormant Aspergillus infestation we hadnt known of previously (legacy of some partying former tenants who evidently stored their old wine bottles in a closet)- it was horrible at the time, and every single thing you listed applied to one or another of us! plus, parkinsons-like symptoms in my hubby who was on lithium at the time (his dr said lithium & aspergillus have an affinity) including delusions & tremors, and my sons & i all developed asthma and all sorts of nerve reactions. we were all ready-to-drop exhausted all the time and all of us had unbelievably sensitive sense of smell, we could smell stuff the way animals can... something the boys thought was pretty cool, actually... hoooowwwwoooolllll :-)
over time, the intensity of all of it faded away after we got free of the contaminated apartment.
its just amazing what molds- even spores- can do in sensitive people. we had neighbors who had nastier infestations even than ours, who didnt think they were reacting at all, go figure... but it seemed that for the 4 of us, our immune systems simply had no tolerance and reacted very very strongly.
so i wanted to throw that out to you as a possibility worth ruling out anyway. becoz it just seems like there's got to be some underlying factor or group of factors that is making things so difficult for you, when you know you are doing so many things that are right.
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 3:10 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a brief post (at least that is the plan) -

there is/was a toxic exposure back around the time the burning mouth came - not sure what but I do know how it happened and the source(s) are out of the house now - could be mold - could be pesticides (I think there was rat poison on the used fridge we bought and it was a "wild" ride) - I went through a mercury scare - tested hair 3 times over the next year plus - there was an adrenal crash as well as elevated arsenic indicated by hair results - hence there can be neuro problems caused by that

I was on ambien (sleeping pills) for many years - going off was not fun - some of what I am experiencing fits in the realm of "benzo withdrawal" - my plan in coming here back a couple months ago was to lessen the MSG in my diet until the nerves heal (if they ever will) - what I am seeing is I am more sensitive than I thought and perhaps sensitive to some additives

if there is permanent neuro damage from toxins (oh there were others toxic exposures over the years not just this one as I am chemically sensitive and have dealt with toxic encephalopathy diagnosis in the past) then the burning mouth might never disappear - the trigeminal pains might never go away either

the trigeminal pains are really intense left sides headache / face pains - mine tend to last and include mouth /teeth pains and superintense earaches with face out of alignment feeling - a neuro agreed with it it was trigeminal but it isn't classical trigeminal neuralgia - a trigeminal reaction is crying when you cut onions - it is also change is breathing, blood pressure etc in a toxic exposure - my left sided ear pains are horrendous and knock me flat - treatment is trying antiseizure meds first hence I am on gabapentin and can't seem to get off it

as far as safe foods - beats me right now - I know reactions can come hours or even days later - that makes it hard to determine as I want to blame the last thing or things I ate - I am finding somethings safer than others - I really have a problem eating the same thing day after day - I am close on part of my diet but not all

it is very hard to get organic here on the coast - even today in wandering through the produce department you see the same things that were there last time I bet - the produce man was dumping some parsnips - non organic btw - (I was grabbing a turnip which turned out to be frozen at some time when I cut it open - hubby likes raw turnip slices) - he said the parsnips had been there for 3 weeks and hadn't sold - I didn't look today but a week ago they still had the sacks of organic apples that were on promo a month ago and I don't trust their cold food storage to be free of mold - you need to buy what turns over well there - I have yet to see a bag of snap or snow peas worth buying there
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 6:47 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Did they fit you with a bite plate for the trigeminal nerve pain?
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Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 6:59 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no Roy - I was told by an ENT I had TMJ - well I knew I had TMJ (have known for 20 years) but this pain wasn't that - the ENT said to get a nightguard from the dentist - that was one giant disaster and I took it back never wearing it - it was TOXIC and no way could I handle that chemical load in my mouth

about 2 months later I saw the neuro and a second ENT - the second ENT said the pain is probably neurogenic and yes I have TMJ but that wasn't the cause of the pain -

I am seeing someone for treatment for facial pain / "TMJ" as that was the way to get in the door to see her but we both know that TMJ isn't the big cause of my pain - she does trigger point therapy and cranial sacral work and has helped a lot with the pain but there is still plenty around
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Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 12:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bo'nana - to go back and answer your question about vitamin D - I don't have a solution yet. Both of the commercial supplements I seem to react to. One has MSG I think (vegetable protein). I tried 200-250 mg doses of each the past 2 days - one a day.

I am looking at increasing fish (tuna, salmon) in our diet. I plan to order one of the "safe" brands - kristy I think had used "crown prince" - the corn free blog lists some of "natural sea" = there is an outfit in MI that sells them by the can and I plan to put in an order at that site of perhaps another site for a few cans and other things in the next day or so - I won't shop vitacost.

the sites I am looking at buying from are:

and someone posted this site on the corn avoidance forum for the frozen fillets only - and they raised their prices on Friday between my glances at it - guess Lent is about here - you can use fedex ground rates for much of NW even for a frozen order

and if anyone has any feedback I would appreciate it
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Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the rosemary oil came today so I will try it tonight using a drop or two in a spoonful of distilled water the first time - I need to be cautious and work up to full strength if I can handle it

I ordered a few things from yesterday including a few cans of crown prince fish - they were free shipping if over $40 order, 6 % off if you were registered (easy to do) and I found a $5 off first time buying code - I got more pomegranate concentrate (I love that stuff in sparkling water) and a few sacks of assorted grains to try but their cereal selection was limited - they shipped it out last night from California so that will be here later this week - it appears they are just starting to add some of these grocery items

now I am probably just posting for my own record - the mouth burning persists and then with it comes the increase in sinus / Eustachian tube fluid and pressure - it still knocks me flat sometimes and I have no idea if it will ever fully go away - I am not sure there isn't some permanent nerve damage behind this
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Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - 7:50 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bo'nana, I just read the bit about your wanting to try cod liver oil. In my research, this is what I found: every one that I looked into adds back synthetic vitamins A and D to the oil because the natural vitamins are destroyed in the manufacturing process.......what's the point of taking the cod liver oil if it has synthetic vitamin D anyway?!! There is one that contains only the natural original vitamins, no synthetics at all: Blue Ice fermented cod liver oil - the plain unflavored kind is actually corn and soy-free, too. We use it without issue.

Also, Carlson vitamin D drops are corn-free but do contain coconut.....I've not had any issues with these, either.

For B vitamins, Thorne Research B complex #12 is corn and soy-free. It's the only B vitamin supplement that I've found that is safe for us.
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Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2011 - 9:38 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh are you serious??? ...thanx for the info, i wouldnt have been savvy enough to find that out before i bought it! im sure you just saved me from the pain & frustration of yet another synthetic supplement reaction
i will look for the Blue Ice version, sounds like the fermenting process may be closer to the stuff our grandparents grew up with :-)

so far, ive had good results (at least no bad results) using Carlson Taurine, so i may eventually take the risk & try their vitD liquid... thanks for the tip... just reluctant to get back on the merry-go-round since i do feel that every concentrated supplement ive ever taken only created new imbalances elsewhere in the end... of course, i may be overlooking other factors, such as whether those were all synthetic versions, or what their matrix might have contained (i am definitely reactive to Aspergillus based formulas, for example)
so many things always to consider!
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 9:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am finding oxalate is also a problem - the days I am "low" are before the days with less face / ear / sinus / mouth pain.

Some of the high glutamate foods are also high oxalate: peanut butter, almonds, dry beans, potatoes - these are things I would like to eat. Tea is a no no too. Spinach is very high oxalate and I Know eating spring mix and spinach would set off an increase in mouth pain. Carrots did too but they can be high glutamate or treated with who knows what in processing. I had to stop eating them a couple months ago too as they set off more pain.

Pumpkin seeds are low oxalate and I like them. I will see how eating some pumpkin seed butter works tomorrow if it gets here. I ordered a jar and well, UPS decided to claim weather delay.

More later as I get further into this. I have done a few days of low oxalate interspersed with a few days of high oxalate.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 4:37 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Oxalate-rich plants include fat hen ("lamb's quarters"), sorrel, and several Oxalis species. The root and/or leaves of rhubarb and buckwheat are high in oxalic acid. Other edible plants that contain significant concentrations of oxalate include—in decreasing order—star fruit (carambola), black pepper, parsley, poppy seed, amaranth, spinach, chard, beets, cocoa, chocolate, most nuts, most berries, fishtail palms, New Zealand spinach (Tetragonia tetragonioides) and beans.[citation needed] Leaves of the tea plant (Camellia sinensis) contain among the greatest measured concentrations of oxalic acid relative to other plants. However the infusion beverage typically contains only low to moderate amounts of oxalic acid per serving, due to the small mass of leaves used for brewing."
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 5:53 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

not sure how helpful this article will be, its actually relating to oxalate exposure from houseplants, but thought it interesting anyway...

your comment connecting oxalates to mouth & facial pain brought back a childhood memory of kids playing 'chicken' by daring each other to nibble at dumbcane until they couldnt stand it (but not me- noooooo.....)
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 8:15 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

there is a yahoo group which has a lot in data on oxalate levels of many foods - you have to join the group but once there in the files are spreadsheets you can obtain with lots of foods listed (find information about foods then find oxalate spreadsheets)

they have a website too -

I had run into the poisonous plants causing burning mouth in my searches this past couple weeks myself

I am still very much in the learning phase on this stuff.
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 8:01 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I get blood-pressure changes in the eyes, so if I look at a white wall, I can tell about 10-30mins after eating if something if what I ate had high glutamate levels. What's going on is that the small capillaries are expanding and contracting quickly. Glutamates in the blood has this influence on blood pressure. So if left untreated, those small capillaries in the retina can burst and put blood into the gel part of the eye (causing a blind spot). Over a long time left untreated and still eating high-glutamate foods, this can cause long-term damage and blindness. Luckily I discovered it was my diet of high-glutamates causing this problem.
Roy Piwovar
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Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 2:26 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glutamate is a known cause of retinal damage.
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Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 7:54 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It has now been just over a year since I found this site. It has been very helpful for me but I also found glutamate isn't my only problem this year.

This year I ended up buying 2 "natural turkeys" and one breast half of another one for Thanksgiving time. We started with the first turkey the Saturday before Thanksgiving as we bought it that day at IGA (little local store) and wasn't sure if Safeway would have one on Wednesday when we would be there. It turned out they did and so the second turkey was bought and then IGA was selling parts of the natural ones after Thanksgiving dirt cheap so the breast appeared. It was so much better than a year ago's experience was.

My health is overall better, my weight is down some more, my BP is under better control, however I recently was too low in Sodium and that was affecting my heart. Once that was figured out and fluids curtailed some and salt in my diet increased (no processed foods meant little salt was in my diet) I am doing much better.

As I have posted several times I seem to have an oxalate problem too.

Thanks for all the support when I first came here a year ago.

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Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 5:56 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I'm also going through benzo withdrawal and I'm having a lot of food sensitivities. I had a problem with glutamate even before benzo withdrawal, and I seem to have more intense reactions to food than most other people in b/w, so I'm hoping this diet will help.

How long have you been in withdrawal? Have you found this diet helpful?
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Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


long benzo story - the latest was ambien - I am in protracted valium withdrawal from CTing it in 1979 and was told ambien didn't work on the same receptors and believed it. this is the readers digest version of the story - I sure learned otherwise - I was stupid to have believed these med school profs and stayed on it way too long

in my first post on this thread there is an email address - it is valid

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