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Convincing other to consider MSG or f...

Battling the MSG Myth » "Help! I Have a Question" » Convincing other to consider MSG or food allergies . . . « Previous Next »

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Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm trying to share my new found knowledge with a friend's daughter, who has been suffering from a terrible and strange skin problem, which her doctor now thinks might be related to a disease of the nervous system.

I wanted to share my email exchanges here, in case it might help anyone else when trying to "get the word out".

No, I don't think MSG is the cause of all disease, but I do think it makes sense to rule out food sensitivities before going down the disease route.

This poor woman has been suffering for a year, and been to doctor, after doctor, after doctor. . .

Here it goes:

Please pass this on to your daughter.

* Dysautonomia involves a malfunction of the nervous system.
* MSG & Aspartame are Neurotoxins.
* Free glutamic acid (the offending component of MSG is pervasive, and appears in everything from campbell's soup to salad dressing; it's not just in Chinese food restaurants.
* If her nervous system is malfunctioning, and she happens to be injesting Neurotoxins, the first thing to do is stop injesting Neurotoxins.

These ALWAYS contain MSG:

* Glutamate Textured protein
* Monosodium glutamate Hydrolyzed protein
* Monopotassium glutamate (any protein that is hydrolyzed)
* Glutamic acid Yeast extract
* Calcium caseinate Yeast food
* Sodium caseinate Autolyzed yeast
* Gelatin Yeast nutrient

These very OFTEN contain MSG:

* Malt extract Flavors(s) & Flavoring(s)
* Malt flavoring Natural flavor(s) & flavoring(s)
* Barley malt Natural pork flavoring
* Bouillon Natural beef flavoring
* Stock Natural chicken flavoring
* Broth Seasonings (the word "seasonings")
* Carrageenan Soy sauce
* Maltodextrin Soy sauce extract
* Whey protein Soy protein
* Whey protein isolate Soy protein isolate
* Whey protein concentrate Soy protein concentrate
* Pectin anything Protein fortified
* anything Enzyme modified

Your daughter should look at the foods she's eating.

Before she goes down a path of investigating a disease of the nervous system, she should go on an elimination diet for 2 - 4 weeks and see how she feels. In my case all my symptoms resolved on the elimination diet; knowing that it wasn't an irreversible disease was a huge comfort. Figuring out exactly what it was, however required lots of work and analysis.

Here's the original 60 minutes segment on MSG:
Part 1:
Part 2:

Here's another video intro to MSG:
Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

MSG can affect so many aspects of your body:

These are 2 great resources of info on MSG: (this site has a great discussion board)

Below is my story, how it took me 291 days to figure it out.

Feel free to give me a call if you want to chat about it.


Below "my story", I'll paste a response I got from Outback Steak House in response to my MSG inquiry. As you can see, it's not simply in soy sauce at Chinese food restaurants.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
For years, I've been using powdered egg protein shakes (with 4,500 mg of glutamic acid per shake).

I was adding 15,000 mg of L-Glutamine powder to the shake to help keep my intestines healthy.

I took lots of fish oil gelcaps, and lots of other gelcap form factor supplements.

Although I would not buy prepared foods for home with MSG, it was never on my radar when eating out. (KFC chicken is so darn tasty!!)

Prior to 291 days ago, I was a healthy happy 41 year old male, going to the gym 4-5 days/week,

291 days ago my problems started with a terrible itchy skin rash, which escalated into terrible brain fog and mental confusion. I thought I was developing early Alzheimers ( e.g. leaving stove on, drove through an intersection when I got confused as to which traffic light changed).

It then progressed to muscle coordination and clumsiness problems (e.g. dropped a bottle of vitamins at the Vitamin Shoppe - I never do that).

Eventually I developed stiff jaw (hard to chew) and incapacitating muscle paralysis; I pulled a muscle in my back and literally could not get out of bed - I felt like a roach which had been sprayed with a can of RAID)

Much to my relief, when I went on an elimination diet of only chicken, rice & salt for several weeks, all symptoms resolved.

Though food challenge after food challenge, and keeping a rigorous food diary with 180 columns in Excel, I eventually figured it it was free glutamic acid. The light bulb for me was noticing that it seemed when I had my protein shakes with L-Glutamine, I seemed to do worse. Since glutamine sounds like glutamate, I started researching that and then the previous 291 days just "clicked". Indeed, when I was consuming the most MSG, indeed my symptoms were at their worst.

For example, I purchased a slow-cooker and cooked everything from scratch, for a really long time 10-12 hours. At the all-time worst point, I started slow-cooking corned beef brisket, eating 10 oz / day for 8 days (then that paralysis episode occured). I had no idea at the time I had my own MSG factory right in my slow-cooker: cooking protein for long periods of time breaks down the protein, liberating the free glutamic acid. Of course, slow cooking corned beef which was already heavily seasoned with MSG was a disaster!

A few months later, trying to be healthy, I started making home made chicken bone broth gelatin (slow-cooked chicken carcass for 18 hours). Again: I was making my own MSG at home and had no idea!


From outback steak house:

G Day,

Thank you for your email. Please advise the manager on duty of your dietary needs. Most items are made to order so it is not an issue to leave some ingredients out while preparing a dish. Outback Steakhouse will do everything in its power to ensure you have a safe and enjoyable dining experience.

All of our seasonings for our proteins are MSG and hydrolyzed vegetable protein free except for the seasoned butter used in our steamed vegetables. We recommend you avoid the following:
All soups
Burgundy mushrooms
Au Jus served with Prime Rib
Roasted Filet
Roasted Filet Sandwich
Lamb Sauce
Veggie Skewers
Crab Stuffed Shrimp
Crab Topping on Tilapia
Pasta Dished made with Alfredo Sauce
Teriyaki Sirloin
BBQ sauce
Caesar Dressing
Soy Dressing
Wasabi Dressing
Port Wine Sauce served with Roasted Filet
Demi Cream Sauce served with Pepper Strip
Shrimp En Fuego
Ask to have the Alice Quesadilla or Alice Springs Chicken made without mushrooms
Ask to have the vegetable prepared without the seasoned butter

The King Crab is not seasoned it is all natural.

The butter that comes with crab for dipping is USDA A grade butter, nothing is added.

The sweet potato is rubbed with soy bean oil and baked. Then it is topped with brown sugar, honey butter blend (butter blend is palm kernel oil, soy oil and butter) and pure honey and then a sprinkle of cinnamon.

All steaks are seasoned with MSG free seasonings and then cooked in a USDA A grade butter.

I hope this helps,
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:34 am:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's my second message: after she says: "Since I have already eliminated every food mentioned with the exception of organic yogurt ranch dressing and chicken a further elimination might be difficult. "

I'm really sorry you're going through all this, and I'm entirely sympathetic, having been frustrated for almost an entire year trying to find patterns in what seemed to be random symptoms..

People with acute peanut allergies have it easy: eat a peanut, suffer an immediate terrible reaction.

In contrast, reactions to Free Glutamic Acid (the business end of MSG) can be delayed: 1 hour to 48 hours, which makes tracking VERY DIFFICULT.

Further, there is a building (compounding) effect. Have free glutamic acid with breakfast: it raises your blood glutamate levels. Have more with lunch: raises it further. Dinner: you guessed it.

For me, I wouldn't start noticing problems for at least a week, but then: it's like the straw that broke the camels back: I'd have something that had free glutamic acid, it it would put me over the edge. And, that "something" could be completely unrelated to food items I normally eat. For me, it turned out that the vitamins & supplements I was taking were worsening the problem because the gelcaps are composed of 12% free glutamic acid (and I was taking a lot of them).

Consider this:

Free glutamate content of foods (mg per 100g)
roquefort cheese 1280
parmesan cheese 1200
soy sauce 1090
walnuts 658
fresh tomato juice 260
grape juice 258
peas 200
mushrooms 180
broccoli 176
tomatoes 140
mushrooms 140
oysters 137
corn 130
potatoes 102
chicken 44
mackerel 36
beef 33
eggs 23
human milk 22

Imagine you are teetering on the brink of having an episode, and you have walnuts (which sound nice and healthy, but relatively high in free glutamic acid). You might not have had walnuts the last time there was an episode, so you would be tempted to conclude it's neither walnut nor whatever you ate before the previous episode.

Having 180 columns in excel did me no good because I didn't have a column called: "free glutamic acid". Once I became aware of it, I added the column, then went back for each day and based on my food diary, assigned a score of 1-10. Sure enough, that tracked perfectly. It's like looking at a newspaper 2 inches from your face: all you see is dots. Move the paper further away and dots form letters, and the letters form words, and the picture becomes clear.

The one red flag from your email was salad dressing. Use of prepared foods makes it really hard to get to the bottom of it.

I would strongly suggest that once and for all, you rule out food by having nothing but chicken (pan cooked for 10-15 minutes), rice, olive oil, and pure sea salt for 2 weeks.

As terrible as that sounds, it pails in comparison to what you're going through.

If you read though the MSG support forums, you'll see that some folks who are very sensitive react to things which you would never think of, like iodized salt which frequently has maltodextrin as a flowing agent. Using prepared foods makes it impossible to track stuff like this.

Some people react to corn based citric acid. I guarantee that there is no way you would ever spot that pattern because citric acid is in grape juice, apple sauce, and those absorbency pads under meat or fish in the supermarket are drenched in citric acid.

Lots of people are sensitive to lots of this. For example, there is a large community of people who are very sensitive to corn. These people, for example, react to corn used in packaging, which doesn't even appear on product labels in foods like frozen strawberries or frozen broccoli (used to prevent it from all sticking together).

Before you jump into disease as the cause, you really owe it to yourself to rule out food sensitivities first, and you can't do that eating prepared foods, not only because of the ingredients, but also because of cross contamination possibilities in manufacture.

I've learned so much about this during the last year, and I would love to chat with you about this. If you want to, my number is

Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 2:58 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


It sounds like you covered everything very well. I am very sensitive to corn and my doctor found that I had a sky high CRP and diagnosed my problem as "Dysautonomia" and "gut dysbiosis" and asthma (I knew I couldn't eat corn but didn't know all the hidden forms I was ingesting at the time). Granted he didn't have a clue what could have caused it nor how to cure it. His conclusion was to prescribe supplements for my deficiencies and told me to use Splenda instead of sugar since I was gaining weight even though I told him I hardly ate anything. This doctor actually eats a lot of soy, Splenda and told me lard would cause a flash fire in my kitchen if I tried to cook with it. He has 2 Phd's and is a renowned diagnostician and chemist. He also now insists that I can't possibly be reacting to the corn derivatives in medicine or food because "it is processed until there is no corn left". He still insists now on prescribing supplements even though he has seen my CRP drop and my health improve dramatically in general since starting this diet.

Unfortunately, you need to get used to the idea that most people you try to help will not listen and will label you a kook or zealot. People are really invested in their food choices and have blind faith in pharmaceuticals and doctors. Most doctors don't even ask you what you are eating. I saw a commercial just the other day for a "once-a-day pill" to "cure" acid reflux disease. We are actually going backwards in medical technology if acid reflux is now a disease that has no correlation to what is ingested.

The bottom line is that our pharmaceutical and food manufacturing corporations are intertwined with big agra to produce these toxic additives from subsidized GMO corn and soy and then create cures for the symptoms they cause. Millions in political contributions are just the cost of doing business and easily affordable when they are raking in billions unchecked. The colleges and research institutes rely on corporations for funding and doctors get all their up-to-date information from pharmaceutical companies.

The reality is that I am curing myself by ignoring all the politically correct "common knowledge" of today. I eat more of a "paleo" style diet with nothing that isn't in its natural state. I take this to the extreme by some standards but I get burned every time I deviate. I don't buy fruit or veggie juice, canola oil, supplements or medicines, pasteurized dairy, bread, flour, or anything in a can or jar or really anything manufactured by a major food corporation. My food purchases are: pasture raised meat and lard direct from the farm, eggs from same farm, conventional and organic veggies (we would starve if we only ate organic around here), sea salt and some spices, coconut oil, organic ghee and raw dairy if I can get my hands on it (we do without dairy if not). We don't really do nuts and seeds for now since we can't tolerate them but do eat raw honey instead of sugar. I make my own cultured vegetable (like sauerkraut and kimchee) for probiotics and higher vitamin content. I highly recommend them! I worry about anybody that takes synthetic supplements because I feel they are as dangerous as the gelcaps that most times surround them. To try to cure our folic acid deficiency I do something really radical: I cook a big pot of greens in broth and then we drink the "pot liquor" and throw away the greens since we can't tolerate them. I am trying to figure a way to get a high quality juicer right now so we can start juicing vegetables high in folic acid since we have trouble digesting the vegetables themselves and I am worried not enough folic acid survives the cooking process.

I have done extensive reading trying to find the key to unlock this chronic fatigue that is still my main symptom (and yes I do believe it is a symptom of a physiological malfunction that can possibly be healed). I am studying the GAPS diet now to see if it may help, but like everything else it will be trial and error and listening to my body's response for answers.

I think that may be the main difference between us (the people on this forum) and the rest of the world: we listen to what our body tells us. Most people have so much static and noise they can't decipher the signals and will never be able to until they cut out the food additives. It is commendable to try to help someone but telling them is all you can do (and sometimes they deem that too much). It is all too sad and discouraging to dwell on so I try to just do best for me and my kids (who wouldn't eat that junk on a dare anymore now that they are better).
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 1:20 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Please read my article about the cover-up of hidden MSG and feel free to pass it on to everyone you know:
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 10:44 pm:   Delete PostPrint Post   Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, Guru.

I find that article to be one of the best written ones about MSG on the web. I forwarded it to all of my friends and family. I advise MikeS to do the same.

If everyone around the world reads it and asks questions, they'd have a much better chance to be healthier while lowering their medical bills at the same time.

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